The health care act is confirmed

[Guest Melissa~]

The affordable care act has been upheld in it's entirety by the US supreme court.

I'm not a big fan of this law primarily because the grandaddy sized loophole that you can drive the mountain K2 though -> of ever increasing premiums isn't even addressed in it. In my own little protest I intend to be a patient on the take end of the premiums.

That said some positives are definitely in store with it, including applicability to the GLBTQ community.

This also means that widespread surgical coverage is more likely within a decade. That's just my personal speculation of course, there are many mechanisation's that will cause that to move forward and I'm not privy to any of them. The most important of which are: SRS isn't experimental and treatment has been settled medicine for a long time.

[Carolyn Marie]

Yay!

Let the political debate begin.

Boo!

Carolyn Marie

[Charlize]

This is great news. So many lives will be saved some many helped but unfortunately so much more will go to the fat cats running the insurance industry. I

only wish we could have gotten a single payer gov. system. Medicare and social security have the lowest administration costs around the industries.

Hugs, Charlie

[Guest Juniper Blue]

One big step forward ...

Now .. let's work for that SINGLE PAYER option.

[Guest Jade T]

I personally am very uncomfortable with the fact that big 'ol Uncle Sam can force us to buy anything under threat of force. Force being the cops throwing you in jail if you don't pay the "fines or taxes" that occur if you do not get mandated health insurance. And death possibly being the case if you resist the police officers arresting you. Highly unlikely, but that is a scenario that can happen.

Of course, people can say the government makes you buy car insurance to drive as well. But that is all mandated by the local states, not the Federal Government. And it is only required if you drive on government roads and public areas. If you manage to get a car on your own property, no driver's license OR insurance is required to operate a vehicle. I am also curious about the "fines" we will pay if we do not get insurance by 2014. What happens if someone really is so poor they cannot afford health insurance? Shall they be fined through taxes enough to the point where they will be considered tax offenders and criminals all because they did not earn enough income for insurance?

The whole idea of this unsettles me. If the government can make you buy insurance "for your own good," it opens the door to many other things we could be "doing for our own good." Just my thoughts on the matter, and I do not mean to sound combative

Hugs,

Jade

[Carolyn Marie]

Jade, it comes down to what works for the greater benefit of all. If only a few states adopted it, there wouldn't be the savings in having a much larger pool of participating people. You will pay whether we have this law or not. If the law is repealed, you and everyone else will continue to pay indirectly for those who have to go to the emergency room for treatment, because they don't have and can't get insurance. You will pay increased costs for your own insurance, or your own doctor, because of the number of uninsured.

If only a few people bought car insurance, what do you think premiums would be like for everyone? Costs are averaged out when good drivers and bad drivers are combined in the same pool. For health insurance, rates will go down when relatively healthy younger people are combined with older less healthy people, and the pool grows to the tens and hundreds of millions.

In the current "perfect" system that the Republicans want to keep, young people are kicked off their parents insurance plans at 18 or 21, people with serious conditions lose their plans because they exceed the annual or lifetime maximum, and people with pre-existing conditions can't get insurance. We all pay for them, one way or another.

For those who believe that everyone should take care of themselves, my arguments will never suffice. Those folks don't like Social Security or Medicare or anything else government does. Of course, some of those same folks want their farm subsidies and their tax deductions.

If you have insurance now, this law won't effect you at all. There won't be anything else to buy. If you don't, you still get to choose which insurance carrier and which policy you get. So, yes, its forcing you to do something you might not want to do, but the good outweighs the bad, IMHO.

HUGS

Carolyn Marie

[Guest Jade T]

For those who believe that everyone should take care of themselves, my arguments will never suffice. Those folks don't like Social Security or Medicare or anything else government does. Of course, some of those same folks want their farm subsidies and their tax deductions.

If you have insurance now, this law won't effect you at all. There won't be anything else to buy. If you don't, you still get to choose which insurance carrier and which policy you get. So, yes, its forcing you to do something you might not want to do, but the good outweighs the bad, IMHO.

HUGS

Carolyn Marie

That is what I believe in. Both from a philosophical viewpoint, and because I think it makes more economical sense.

I believe we should all help each other out when we can. I and whoever believes as I do should help who we can, when we can. However, because not everyone believes that, I do not want to force anyone to do something they do not want to. Freedoms and liberties are more important than life to me. If we have to give up freedoms and liberties for protection, we deserve nothing. To say that people should be forced to "chip in to help" even though they do not want to is basically saying that someone else is entitled to my work and time; akin to slavery. That is wrong on all matters in my philosophy on life and government.

But back to the health care bill, I brought up the car insurance just to demonstrate how many people compare the new health care bill to car insurance, which it isn't. If you don't drive or drive on private land, car insurance is not required. However, the same cannot be said of the new health care bill.

My biggest concern with the bill is it takes away so many of our liberties and freedoms of free commerce and enterprise. Our rights to determine how we live our lives. If I don't want to live for the greater good, than I shouldn't have to. If I want to help the greater good, than I should have the right to. However, I (nor anyone) should not have the right to force others to live for the greater good if they do not want to. So long as they do not harm anyone with their actions, they should be free to do as they see fit.

Anyways, I will stop talking about this subject now just in case it stirs the hornets nest too much. I don't want to get too many people riled up. Laura's PG is about support and helping each other, not about making people want to burn others at the stake =). Plus I don't smell good with burnt and charred skin >.<

[Guest ~DeeDee~]

For those who believe that everyone should take care of themselves, my arguments will never suffice. Those folks don't like Social Security or Medicare or anything else government does. Of course, some of those same folks want their farm subsidies and their tax deductions.

If you have insurance now, this law won't effect you at all. There won't be anything else to buy. If you don't, you still get to choose which insurance carrier and which policy you get. So, yes, its forcing you to do something you might not want to do, but the good outweighs the bad, IMHO.

HUGS

Carolyn Marie

That is what I believe in. Both from a philosophical viewpoint, and because I think it makes more economical sense.

I believe we should all help each other out when we can. I and whoever believes as I do should help who we can, when we can. However, because not everyone believes that, I do not want to force anyone to do something they do not want to. Freedoms and liberties are more important than life to me. If we have to give up freedoms and liberties for protection, we deserve nothing. To say that people should be forced to "chip in to help" even though they do not want to is basically saying that someone else is entitled to my work and time; akin to slavery. That is wrong on all matters in my philosophy on life and government.

But back to the health care bill, I brought up the car insurance just to demonstrate how many people compare the new health care bill to car insurance, which it isn't. If you don't drive or drive on private land, car insurance is not required. However, the same cannot be said of the new health care bill.

My biggest concern with the bill is it takes away so many of our liberties and freedoms of free commerce and enterprise. Our rights to determine how we live our lives. If I don't want to live for the greater good, than I shouldn't have to. If I want to help the greater good, than I should have the right to. However, I (nor anyone) should not have the right to force others to live for the greater good if they do not want to. So long as they do not harm anyone with their actions, they should be free to do as they see fit.

Anyways, I will stop talking about this subject now just in case it stirs the hornets nest too much. I don't want to get too many people riled up. Laura's PG is about support and helping each other, not about making people want to burn others at the stake =). Plus I don't smell good with burnt and charred skin >.<

What will you be driving on the road to serfdom? As much as I would like to jump on the "everyone gets everything" bandwagon, logic tells me no.

[Guest Jade T]

What will you be driving on the road to serfdom? As much as I would like to jump on the "everyone gets everything" bandwagon, logic tells me no.

Hmm serfdom? What do you mean? I don't subscribe to the "everyone gets everything" thought at all. I am exactly the opposite. I subscribe to the "everyone gets what they worked for. No more, no less." train of thought. As for serfdom, I had a very successful business before the Army, which wasn't given to me by anyone nor provided to me by the government. If I was able to do it, anyone can with a little bit of effort . I am no better than anyone

[Guest carolynn2fem]

The affordable health care act like most all other federal laws are decivingly named. in the end it has nothing to do with healtcare. it more about the left tring to level the playing feild. bringing the top down will not bring the bottom up a bit. It's power over the people and striping of our rights and freedoms. I've said for many years now If You realy want to mess up a GOOD thing. get the government involved.

Carolyn has some feelgood and nobile intentions on how she see things being implimented. and I am NOT faulting her at all. I think She will be serverly dismayed on the practial reality. We can look to europe or we can look closer to home and see how this failing idea works. Canidia. Its citicens currently come to the US and pay out of pocket as apposed to waiting inline for there free socialized medicine. in 10 year we will look like canidia. that being said I could support something like this on a state level. WHY? I currently have a one size fits all option. (those rarely fit anyone) on the state level I have 50 options. that and it is with in the constitution. options breed compitition. compitition breeds lower priced.

I am confident that the coming election WILL undo obama care in its entirety but we have a lingering time bomb left by the supreem court. that president will come back to haunt us like carters CRA that caused the housing crash.

Jade has it right. We can not have more than what we earn.

rant off. Carolynn

[Guest ~DeeDee~]

What will you be driving on the road to serfdom? As much as I would like to jump on the "everyone gets everything" bandwagon, logic tells me no.

Hmm serfdom? What do you mean? I don't subscribe to the "everyone gets everything" thought at all. I am exactly the opposite. I subscribe to the "everyone gets what they worked for. No more, no less." train of thought. As for serfdom, I had a very successful business before the Army, which wasn't given to me by anyone nor provided to me by the government. If I was able to do it, anyone can with a little bit of effort . I am no better than anyone

I was so agreeing with you, I just tried to make a funny, that didn't really pop. What I meant to say is that this Trojan Health care bill is the beginning of the "Road to Serfdom".

The affordable health care act like most all other federal laws are decivingly named. in the end it has nothing to do with healtcare. it more about the left tring to level the playing feild. bringing the top down will not bring the bottom up a bit. It's power over the people and striping of our rights and freedoms. I've said for many years now If You realy want to mess up a GOOD thing. get the government involved.

Carolyn has some feelgood and nobile intentions on how she see things being implimented. and I am NOT faulting her at all. I think She will be serverly dismayed on the practial reality. We can look to europe or we can look closer to home and see how this failing idea works. Canidia. Its citicens currently come to the US and pay out of pocket as apposed to waiting inline for there free socialized medicine. in 10 year we will look like canidia. that being said I could support something like this on a state level. WHY? I currently have a one size fits all option. (those rarely fit anyone) on the state level I have 50 options. that and it is with in the constitution. options breed compitition. compitition breeds lower priced.

I am confident that the coming election WILL undo obama care in its entirety but we have a lingering time bomb left by the supreem court. that president will come back to haunt us like carters CRA that caused the housing crash.

Jade has it right. We can not have more than what we earn.

^^^^THIS

And then there was the decision in it's-self which part of which read:

"Members of this Court are vested with the authority to interpret the law; we possess neither the expertise nor the prerogative to make policy judgments. Those decisions are entrusted to our Nation’s elected leaders, who can be thrown out of office if the people disagree with them. It is not our job to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices."

So much for checks and balances right? Seems some major change needs happen, and very soon.

[Sakura]

Obamacare as i understand it. forces all americans to have health insurance while also forcing health insurance comapnaies to provide a health insurance package to you that you can afford reguardless of income or health ? If i am wrong about this then i will with drawl the opinion i am about to make.

if that is the case as i understand it. most huge health insurance providers are republican ran, and as we all know rep, do not like giving away crap for free . and as such there is no real cap on what these comapnies can drive their premiums to , what i fear happening is these companies fearing loss in revenue ( or using it as a excuse ) to drive the premiums of the ones they "feel" can aford it sky high . to cover the ones they feel can't afford but have to cover under this new mandate any way.

i just conviently got a letter in the mail the other day from medica ( my insurance provider ) that my premiums , will be increasing in 2013....... to what has not been made clear, but as it stand i pay 63 a month for my health insurance , and for the time being i have only used it to cover my HRT , which out of pocket would cost me around the same price . ( though it did pay rather nicely for my labs and endo visit totaling 850 bucks) which is once every two or so years , if it spikes up to 80 to 90 or higher , it will hardly be worth the use i have for it. but by that time i will be forced to pay for it , with further inflation further down the road to be determined while my pay check stays the same.......

if the history of our country has taught us anything , its that the rich get away with highway robbery while the working poor are left to pick up the tab. and most things the gov does is hardly with our best intentions in mind.......

Sakura

[Guest carolynn2fem]

DEE DEE

like march on washington with pitch fork and shotgun in hand. LOL They rewrote the law by changing the penilty to a tax there by keeping it alive and throwing it back on congress as aposed to killing it.

Sukura I'm not sure that most major health insurance providers are Rep. I beleive that to be more media spin than anything else. But in the house and senete obama care was sharply devided on party line. Dems for and Reps against it. remember this law did not get passed as most all other law get passed. It was not voted on it was throu smoke and mirrors and deamed to pass that way no one had there finger prints on it. If it is such a good law why so much resistance to it on every level of politics and the general public? Carolynn

[KathrynJulia]

There are some good things about Obamacare such as kids can be on parent's insurance until they are 26. The biggest problem with this bill is the size of it. Nobody had time to read it. They got parts of it. It is probably the largest written bill in the history of Congress. We were promised by Obama and Pelosi that there would be transparency and all bills would be published online 72 hours before being voted on. That never happened.

Senators and Congressman were bribed into voting for it. ie Louisianna Purchase, Senator from Louisianna, Senator from Nebraska got a bribe, Olypia Snow got a bribe for her state of Maine. Lot's of under the table dealing. Nancy Pelosi's infamous statement, "We have to pass the bill to see what is in it". Because insurance companies have to cover everybody with pre-existing conditions, of course they are raising premiums. Obamacare caused the disintergration of the oldest running Heathcare Insurance Company in the U.S.. Fortis reinsured other insurance companies as well as provided large corporations with insurance. My brother was a vice-president at Fortis and told me that since they could not anticipate what Obamacare was going to cost to cover, they and other insurance companies closed their health insurance divisions rather than wind up in bankrupsy, Obamacare speaks to nothing about cost containment. Congress is shifting the cost of uninsured Americans by taking 500 billion out of Medicare. Now Medicare which is already going broke as fast as Social Security insures the elderly. Doctors, have taken cut after cut from Medicare and Medicade. I know of many doctors who will not accept new patients who have Medicade and Medicare because they lose money for every person seen.

Because of Obamacare, our healthcare system is going to be stretched to the breaking point as there aren't enough physicians and nurses to care for this inrush of new people. Add to it many physicians are retiring early because of this law or are going part time. Dr Jack Colwill emeritus, Family Medicine, University ofr Missouri has studied Obamacare extensively and has published several dozen papers on the law. He is for it, but acknowledges that it creates as many problems as it solves. Expect longer waits for appointments. Romneycare was a huge hit in Massachusetts, but wait time avarages for appointments are the highest in the country with many patients electing to go for care in neighboring states. Same situation in Canada, for preventive care, their system can't be beat, but need hip surgery or a hysterectomy and the wating time is more than some people can stand.

When I worked at Boone Hospital here in Columbia, my endocrinologist was from Canada, 4 of our Med Tech's were also Canadian. We were recruiting doctors, nurses, Labratory Tech, Radiology Tech's because they could not get jobs in Canada, and we had critical shortages in the 1990's. Two of my Cytologists when I was Director of Anatomical Pathology in Anchorage Alaska were Canadian as were 8 or 9 Medical Technologist. No jobs because care is rationed and budgeted in Canada. We were happy to pick them up because they were highly trained and we could not get enough trained people in the US.

So I hope they keep some parts of Obamacare. That they go through it carefully and rewrite it to create competition to keep costs down, while keeping quality and affordability, and accessability so that we can continue to boast the best healthcare in the world. I've got 25 years working in the healthcare industry, and I enjoy it and want to remain for at least 8 more years when I can retire. I also want to continue to get excellent care when I retire that is if Medicare and Social Security aren't bankrupted because Congress keeps raiding them for fund to fund other projects. Remeber, we have paid into Social Security and Medicare all our working lives. Uninsured people, in which many have paid little or nothing are getting care financed from Social Security and Medicare. Those of us who paid over our lifetime will get substandard care or none at all because of congress raiding these programs and kicking the can down the road. Kathryn

[Guest Jade T]

Ah lol I see Dee Dee. I am sorry about that. I misread what you said. I am totally embarrassed >.<

Sakura, I guess I can understand your concern about health insurance getting raised so high that no one can afford it. What Obama basically has done is to socialize the health care by controlling the companies. Section 1003 of The Affordable Health Care Act prevents insurance companies from raising the premium without a review by the Secretary of Human and Health Services. Summarized and simplified, the US government now controls what premiums are, what MUST be covered on the health plans (some don't even make sense), and what constitutes "value" on the consumer dollar in regards to healthcare.

This "value" coming from the same people who caused our economical woes in the first place through overspending. A business that overspends goes bankrupt (barring the government bailouts which I don't agree with). A government that overspends just taxes more and spends more, hence never learning the "value" of a dollar. But that is getting off topic.

Take a look at the military health care system to see how effective our policy may work. I mean the actual Active duty hopsitals, not VA as I have no experience with the VA hospitals yet. I do not mean to disparage the doctors and our military health care system, but it to be honest stinks. There is too much bureaucracy and laziness to really do well and be effective. I had a friend that had to ETS (leave the army honorably) because the top surgeon on our post would not perform a simple 15 minute surgery to fix his knee condition. He told my friend that his knee was too badly injured and that he could do nothing to fix it. He was basically told to re-class (change career in the Army) to a job he could physically perform or get out. He got out and got his knee fixed. Whether through the VA or civilian health care, I do not know. But I know that the government doctors were too lazy to do anything about it. If one looks a few years back, take a look at the Walter Reed scandal that rocked the front pages. And what we are asking for is something similar for the whole nation? Makes me scared.

In the end though, all those points and examples are moot. Even if the whole healthcare bill worked flawlessly, I would still be opposed to it to the simple fact that it violates my philosophy of freedom of commerce and choice. I shouldn't be forced to buy anything I do not want, plain and simple. If I owned the company that I put my own work (time and money) into, I should run it as I see fit. People are not entitled to my work and services provided by my work (time and money). There is an agreement between me and the customer for services rendered. If they don't like it, they can go somewhere else. If I don't like their terms, I should be able to refuse service. If I am such a miser and people hate my ideas so much, they refuse to do business and I go bankrupt and broke. It is pretty simple.

On a final note, about Republicans not liking to give away anything for free, take a look at tax returns of some big names in politics at this moment. Take a look at the donations to charities and you will be quite surprised. But not to single out any parties or anything, there is a big difference between giving out personal income and making others give out their money. As I say, real leaders pull, fake leaders push. i.e- real leaders pull their people because they are out in the front of pack. Fake leaders push because they hide behind their people.

Hugs,

Jade

[Guest LizMarie]

Obamacare doesn't force people to have health insurance. It encourages it. But the "fine" imposed is so low that you are actually better off not taking insurance then buying insurance after you are sick. And yes, you can do that now, which turns the entire idea of "insurance" on its head. Try buying house insurance after your house catches fire. Also, Obamacare does not require "affordable" insurance since that's variable dependent on how much you make. Instead, it tries to ensure that annual costs are within a narrow range. But that range, as currently defined, does not pay for the many many Americans who are obese and have complications due to obesity, or diabetic and have complications due to diabetes, etc.

Thus, you can expect two trends to develop. The first is endless cost increases as those "insured" become more expensive to insure. The second is the young and/or healthy will opt out of insurance and instead not buy in until they get sick. Even the highest fine of a few thousands dollars (which becomes effective in 2016) is a fraction of what actual insurance costs are per person. These two trends will ultimately bankrupt the current system.

What comes after that? Single payer? Extensive reform? Both? More? I don't think anyone can be certain. But the promise of Obamacare is an illusion and an illusion that will eventually fail of its own design. It's what comes after Obamacare fails that might matter. In the meanwhile, Obamacare didn't change a lot for most of us, unless you had a pre-existing condition and could not previously get insurance. That will be the single biggest change most people encounter.

[Guest DanD]

Obama care forces people to buy insurance, or pay a fine. Same difference.

It also strips Medicare and Medicad and does alot of other unrelated things,

and the govt IS in fact inside your doctors visits now, and it was not before. My doctor has to ask mother may I? for permission to prescribe anything, or to treat me with anything, and that is now already, but due to the new healthcare laws.

I dont like it one bit. Ive read the dumb thing, zillion pages long. You dont even want to know whats in it.

[Guest DanD]

it limits each person to $10,000 max. coverage per year. It not only wont pay for my bottom surgery, but it wont allow medicare to..after a certain date. My doctor and I had discussed that about 2 years ago.. So i was hoping to get it done before the date, but some situations have prevented it from getting done yet. (some new bad blood work, and new health issues to deal with.)