Are foods high in estrogen actually beneficial to MTF?

[Guest I See London]

I can't start HRT yet, but hopefully this will change within the next year. Until then, I have taken many steps to try to keep myself as feminine as possible. Practicing gestures, poses (though I've always been girly in those ways ^.^). Using moisturizer for my face and different areas of my body, doing occasional work-outs designed to sculpt a more feminine body (Which I don't do as often as I should XD). And I've even been working on my diet.

I have been consuming things that are higher in Estrogen, such as apples, carrots, licorice, milk (even though I've been absolutely addicted to milk ever since I could remember), and others. I read that foods higher in estrogen are beneficial to ciswomen in their estrogen levels, especially during menopause. I was wondering if these foods brought any benefit to MTFs who are either pre-hrt or on hrt (aside from the foods' known health benifits).

[Guest Izzybell]

I'm actually really interested in this topic as well. While I do suspect that the effects of such food would be minor, any help right now it do. I still haven't started HRT yet. >.< But I do love apples.

-Isabella

[Guest Jo-88]

well heres something that I can say with certainty... even if it doesn't help, it can't hurt!! The foods you listed are very healthy and being healthy should be a big goal in anyones transition (or life in general). Being healthy will make you look more youthful which is a feminine trait, not to mention the possible placebo effect if you think its making a difference, as well as the boost in energy. However, from a scientific view point even though it is better than no estrogen at all, the plant and animal estrogens in those foods are not only difficult if not impossible for your body to utilize, they are also in very small concentrations... I wouldn't expect much from them other than being healthy and feeling good, but who knows. Just remember estrogen isn't one molecule, its a whole family of molecules and they all have very different effects... what you want is human estradiol which unfortunately is only going to come as part of an HRT regimen.

P.S. theres also the fact that you have testosterone in your system which is going to trump the effects of estrogen every time... even when having a high dose of estradiol (which is several orders of magnitude more potent then what is in those foods) your going to need to block testosterone to see much effect (again back to HRT). Im not trying to be a debbie downer, I just want you to be realistic about your expectations.

[Guest Rawrsome]

I've heard stories that foods containing high levels of estrogen, or foods that facilitate the production of estrogen can have "negative" impact on males (decreased testosterone levels, development of breasts, etc) but i believe that the levels of estrogen found in most foods are too low to have noticeable effects. Most studies that i've looked into (most revolve around soy products) unfortunately support this belief.

[Guest Tamar]

Yup. Around ten years ago I went thru that and consumed enough soy products to make me want to puke. Any effect was limited to making me feel worse about myself- there were no physical changes I could see.

[Guest carolynn2fem]

I have heard it said before outside the trans comunity that soy milk will cause moobs. and for a while I was reasearching food and other estrogen mimics and found myself changing my behaivors based on new information. I had to stop that because I knew I was deluding myself with unpure motives in wanting a side effect. it is dangerour teritory.I now see why these type topic are iffy with the TOS.

Yes I too would love to have boobs but i know life isnt going to end if i dont. examine your motive. if your looking to eat healthy that is one thing. if you are going out of your way for something its time to reexamine your motive.

[Guest Robin Winter]

I went crazy on soy milk for a while. Didn't do a darned thing. Anyone who says differently is probably selling it.

[Guest]

One of my clues that there was something female going onin side of me was having very bad menopause symptoms. I took an herbal estrogen product and it worked. I felt better. After finding more out about the real me, I was given the option of HRT, I took it! Today it's not an option, as stated the testosterone has to be blocked to feminize. HRT is the real deal and the web herbal hype is just snake oil salesman. I love the foods and I eat them when I can. On HRT I am changing so fast I doubt anyone could know if the foods do anything more than feed me. Hug. Jody

[Guest I See London]

well heres something that I can say with certainty... even if it doesn't help, it can't hurt!! The foods you listed are very healthy and being healthy should be a big goal in anyones transition (or life in general). Being healthy will make you look more youthful which is a feminine trait, not to mention the possible placebo effect if you think its making a difference, as well as the boost in energy. However, from a scientific view point even though it is better than no estrogen at all, the plant and animal estrogens in those foods are not only difficult if not impossible for your body to utilize, they are also in very small concentrations... I wouldn't expect much from them other than being healthy and feeling good, but who knows. Just remember estrogen isn't one molecule, its a whole family of molecules and they all have very different effects... what you want is human estradiol which unfortunately is only going to come as part of an HRT regimen.

P.S. theres also the fact that you have testosterone in your system which is going to trump the effects of estrogen every time... even when having a high dose of estradiol (which is several orders of magnitude more potent then what is in those foods) your going to need to block testosterone to see much effect (again back to HRT). Im not trying to be a debbie downer, I just want you to be realistic about your expectations.

Hmm, it seems I gave some people the wrong idea. I didn't figure any of these foods could help me grow boobs or feminize. I'm just looking to see if these things minimize testosterone levels. Testosterone is currently my biggest enemy (besides my maturity XD)

[Guest Robin Winter]

Estrogen alone will never lower your testosterone level. Testosterone will always dominate. That's why mtf need a testosterone blocker and estrogen, while ftm only need testosterone.

[Guest Jo-88]

Hmm, it seems I gave some people the wrong idea. I didn't figure any of these foods could help me grow boobs or feminize. I'm just looking to see if these things minimize testosterone levels. Testosterone is currently my biggest enemy (besides my maturity XD)

No you didn't give me the wrong idea I understood you and I didn't mention anything about boobs that post already answered your question (especially the P.S.). But let me put it in different words; the fact is estrogen will not decrease your testosterone levels (maybe slightly but not enough to make any difference mentally, or physically) ... this is true even for estradiol which like I said is several orders of magnitude more potent than the plant/animal hormones in those foods. In order to reduce testosterone levels you either need to go on anti androgens (part of an HRT regimen) or have an orchiectomy. This same rule is exactly why FTM's don't take estrogen blockers... the effects of testosterone always supersede the effects of estrogen (regardless of what type of estrogen were talking about) so the suppression of estrogen is not necessary for FTM's, again because the effects of the testosterone always overshadow estrogen.

The only way to have estrogenic effects with testosterone in the body is to have SIGNIFICANTLY more estrogen than testosterone, which as a natal male very well could be fatal (where talking doses much much larger than what is in a normal HRT regimen)... but even that wont really "reduce" your testosterone you would just have a whole lot of both.... again hence the use of anti-androgens.

I really hope that answers your questions, like I said its not going to hurt to eat those foods but don't expect a noticeable change in your biochemistry (other than being more healthy). Don't go out and buy several gallons of soy milk thinking its going to reduce your testosterone... all its going to do is make you hate soy milk.

[Guest Melissa Lissa]

What about to reduce something like hair loss? Right now I'm not in a position to start HRT or anything, but something to slow the lose of hair until I could would be nice.

Plus, I love chocolate soy milk, so an excuse to drink it even as a placebo is always nice.

[Guest LizMarie]

Estrogen alone will never lower your testosterone level. Testosterone will always dominate. That's why mtf need a testosterone blocker and estrogen, while ftm only need testosterone.

Actually this is not correct. Estrogen alone will lower testosterone levels. Estrogen was used as a punishment in Great Britain as recently as 60 years ago against gay men to decrease their sex drive. This was actually done to Alan Turing and is considered a probable cause in his decision to commit suicide once he was outed as gay.

My endocrinologist actually follows that path, prescribing estrogen first to get the estrogen level right and then seeing what impact it had on T-levels, then adding just enough anti-androgen to further lower T-levels (if needed, sometimes it's not). This allows him to minimize the anti-androgen dosage.

[VickySGV]

Estrogen alone will never lower your testosterone level. Testosterone will always dominate. That's why mtf need a testosterone blocker and estrogen, while ftm only need testosterone.

Actually this is not correct. Estrogen alone will lower testosterone levels. Estrogen was used as a punishment in Great Britain as recently as 60 years ago against gay men to decrease their sex drive. This was actually done to Alan Turing and is considered a probable cause in his decision to commit suicide once he was outed as gay.

My endocrinologist actually follows that path, prescribing estrogen first to get the estrogen level right and then seeing what impact it had on T-levels, then adding just enough anti-androgen to further lower T-levels (if needed, sometimes it's not). This allows him to minimize the anti-androgen dosage.

My Endo also followed that protocol and my E levels were definitely high enough to do something for 9 months. I was put on the Spiro by my GP when another potassium antagonist diuretic began to take my potassium down to unacceptably low levels. Three months after that I saw the Endo who then upped my Spiro a bit to cover the Anti T issue.

[Guest]

I will share a little something about my new life and I do not recommend anyone follow in my foot steps. This unwanted experiment was hastened by the cruel dictatorship of poverty. No job, no money basic survival mode. I ran out of hormones and could not afford more. I was only able to maintain my estrogen to keep from crashing into suicidal depression. Yes my GID is very real! Two things happened:

I take estrogen orally which means without Spiro the effects are greatly minimized and I cannot take more and not expect to put my liver in jeopardy. So that has a negative impact. I also ran out of progesterone and could not resume after my normal monthly cycle. In a few weeks I was back to the hated hot flashes and night sweats. By then I am feeling miserable but the bright spot is, I got a new job. I had been dividing the remaining Spiro to stretch it as long as I could but the empty bottle came before more money. With pay in hand and a very tight budget I chose to re-up on the progesterone first wondering just how bad I still really needed the Spiro. I have the results to all my questions that I am embarrassed to share it in hopes it helps someone.

Please don't follow my path if at all avoidable. Let me be the dumb blond science project with no money so you don't have to. Here are the results of my blunderings.

I completed my progesterone and the usual cycle came with the usual discomforts. I was glad to start back on progesterone as I have always been back to happy bliss in just a day or so. This time even a few days later, I am still fighting Jody spelled with a Capitol B, the irritability is slow to go away. With the Spiro out of my system for about five weeks that dreaded man is slowly returning with all his boy stink glands and unsightly dark body hairs. He is tramping all over my flowers and casting a gray shadow on my Skittles and rainbows. My best news?...

This pay check I can get my Spiro again and hopefully back to normal. I hate going off into my own little world of stupidity due to poverty. Oh, yes I will tell my doctor and I will need new tests.

I hope that sharing all this helps anybody and I don't get in trouble with the Forum because that is skirting the gray area of DIY hormones. I am typing through tears to be able to admit any of this. Some days I really wish I had not been born with that nasty bugger and his two troublesome buddies down there. Hug. Jody

[VickySGV]

This was done in survival mode and not out of choice, and it does show where doing it on your own was very uncomfortable. A lesson learned. I am glad that you are beginning to recover and that things are getting back to normal.

Another point you make is that all of us are different in our drug needs for this Mad Hatter's Teacup Ride we are on. My loss of the anti T would not have done nearly the damage to me it did to you, but then, my T has been at the very bottom of the scale for years.

For the OP here, the best diet to help us improve our chances for healthy, happy transition is going to be a well balanced diet containing ALL of the nutrients we need with our caloric intake at or slightly more than our basic daily needs. Eat a good well balanced diet at regular times when you are not rushed, and eat only enough to satisfy you, but not so much you become too full.

[Guest]

Thanks Vicky, I really needed your hug and a tissue. I hope I can return the favor some time. Hug. Jody