Starting hormones soon (Self medicating)

[Guest VexedVee]

Hi guys, I'm new to the forums,

Also can someone tell me how to put a pic up on my profile? No matter what I do it always says the upload failed.

Here's the story of why I'm self medicating:

My doctor was extremely unhelpful when I asked him for a referral to see an endocrinologist & psychologist. He had a very dismissive attitude during my consultation (must not have experience with transgendered individuals wishing to commence hrt) and acted like I should just accept my birth gender.

The next time I saw him, he told me "the hospital said no" to my referral, and that was that. He didn't give me an explanation, or tell me what needed to be done for it to be a "yes." He obviously never bothered to ask them.

I was very upset & felt like I had hit a dead end because hormones cannot be ordered in to New Zealand and if I changed doctors, the new one could be just as unsympathetic.

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I met a transgendered woman who told me that if I started hormones on my own and exaggerated the timeframe to my doctor, then he would HAVE to send me to an endocrinologist to get my blood checked etc; and that she would send me hers so I could achieve this.

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I think it's horrible that my doctor was so stuck up during my consultation and that I have to resort to this round-about method just to receive the treatment I need. It is my body, and at this age and late stage, I know who the heck I am. He should be doing all that he can to ensure I go about it the safest way possible. Instead he has just delayed the inevitable and my health could be at risk.

Edited October 20, 2012 by MaryEllen
Hormone dosages removed per rule 18 of the site Terms and Conditions

[MaryEllen]

The most likely cause of your picture upload failure is that your picture is too large. Avatars should be no larger than 90 pixels squared.

For sure, your doctor does seem to be unsympathetic. If I were you, I'd seek out another. Perhaps calling around other doctors to see if they are transgender friendly would be in order. You're not getting anywhere with the one you have now.

I'm sorry but I had to remove the hormones you had listed. It's against our rules to discuss hormone dosages. (Rule 18) Self medicating is a very dangerous thing to be doing and I would urge you to do all you can to find a transgender friendly doctor before going that route. It's not worth the health risks.

MaryEllen

[Guest ~Brenda~]

Hi Vexe,

Your profile picture must be quite small with a very low resolution and pixel count. I think it has to be something like 100x100 pixels with a color resolution of 256 per pixel. What you are really looking at is about 3 or 4 bits per RGB for the image. In short, tiny.

Use MS paint or some other bitmap tool to reduce your picture to as small as you can make it and that should work.

On another note, I am not going to bore you with the dangers of self medicating. I think you know the risks by now. I am sorry that you appear to be trapped by a non transgender sympathetic doctor who I think is acting unethically. I would expect that by now all physicians understand the seriousness of being transgendered and would at least refer you to physicians who can help.

With that said, please understand that self medicating puts you at serious risk of not being able to transition at all.

Brenda

[Carolyn Marie]

If I haven't already welcomed you to the Playground, hon, please let me do so now. This is, as I'm sure you've seen by now, a great place to learn and find friends who share your goals and problems, and to talk things out.

You also probably know this, but self medicating is playing Russian roulette with your life. The consequences, as our founder Laura Amato found out, can be nearly fatal and devastating. Please find another way forward.

We have many NZ members here, and I;m sure some will come around to offer advice on navigating your health care problems. Where there is a will, there is a way, and you certainly have the will. Please don't hesitate to ask any questions, either in a post, or via PM. Whatever we can do to help, we will.

HUGS

Carolyn Marie

[Guest VexedVee]

Thank you for your concerns and for welcoming me.

My source of estrogen will be >>>>>>>>>>>>.

I'm willing to take the risk because if I don't get what I want then I'm better off dead anyway.

It is not a long term plan; I am merely doing this to obtain the attention & services of an endocrinologist.

Love Vee

Edited October 20, 2012 by Carolyn Marie
Specific mention of medication for DIY deleted per T & Cs

[Guest MsGsptlsnz]

Your plan has a potential flaw in it. You might just get sick and suffer unnessesarily.

Demonstrating a willingness for self harm isn't a recipie for turning a doctor to your side. It may screw things up even more for you in the long run. Better to find a new doc and do this the right way.

[JJ]

Better off dead? Don't understand that unless you are say a senior citizen with a terminal illness so that this is the only way to have any quality of life.

Otherwise that's like saying I need to jaywalk to get to the other side of a busy highway because I have to be there when what you really need to do is wait for the light to change. You can find a way to get hrt legally and have a long good life. Or rush out and grab what you want and take a very real risk of some things that are in my opinion far worse than death=or wasting both time and money for no result at all that could have been spent getting it accomplished the right way.Do some reading here. Member have had bad experiences with self medicating although those with the worst results are of course no longer posting here. They may be alive but unable to communicate. A;so read the challenges faced by some in getting the mix right so it works for them. Getting the mix right for your body is very hard. Some go through all kinds of mixes with their endo before finding what works.

And the anti-androgens which will be necessary demand close supervision. Along with estrogen they can magnify your stroke risk greatly. I mentioned worse than death because I think living out my life in a nursing home=perhaps paralyzed or mute or unable to swallow and fed through a tube is worse than death. And you don't get a chance to see it coming and change or chose something else. It is instant and too late. Just had how fast and awful that can be driven home to me by a friend who recently said that she was going to keep right on taking her OTC allergy medicine though the Drs thought it was spiking her blood pressure. She didn't want to bother with the tests and all. Would be too miserable waiting for the results. Had a big stroke last week and is permanently paralyzed on her right side-can't talk right or even see properly. She thought it was worth the risk before. Doesn't now as far as can be deciphered from her scrawlled "Sorry". Dramatic? Sure. The consequences here are dramatic

And if you are taking estrogen alone you are wasting your time and money because T will overcome it every time.

Be smart and be patient. We need all the patience we can get as we transition anyway, We don't need the fear that what we are taking is doing nothing or planning for a future we may never see because we were not patient enough to wait for it and make it happen properly.

Johnny

[Kyla666]

I would have to Disagree with the others on this one.

I have done a few studies in Self-Med and not much more risk is being taken then if your have a Doctor and if you have a untrained Doctor they could be even worse then Self-Med.

The Truth is.... No matter which way you go it's a risk, Just as much a risk as the people who take 12-20 Tylenol a day for pain.

As long as you view the data and understand your body and get as much information as you can on what HRT to take and how much i think the risk is well worth it, Plus the fact that she's only doing this after all options have to looked into is very understandable.

YES!!! getting blood work checked is a MUST and i am sure she will get that. But being on HRT no matter what way you go...Is a risk.

Having a Doctor give them to you does not magically make then safer.

And there are MANY more reasons i can think of for Self-Med that for some reason on here people just don't get and it confuses me so much.

-some points.

-Not everyone can get a Amazing Heath plan at low cost + pay for Meds on top of other things your Heath plan does not cover even thou it's 30$ or more a check.

-Not every place in the world has the Best Doctors and even Understand what Transgender is let alone help you.

- Some places will even BAN you from change your gender.

...There are many more reasons but i got work in 10mins =/ that pays less then 8$/hr with a heath plan that takes close to a 3rd of my check which makes living very hard and close to unlivable...But hay!!! I got heath care right....That does not really pay for anything other then the stuff that's Cheap and i could easily pay out of pocket if i was not playing my Heath care.....

[Guest ~Brenda~]

Something as profound as transitioning should be with the consult of therapists and physicians. I understand the motivation to engage in self hrt. I used to do that. Because of my ignorance, the hormones really did not have any positive effects on me. The only thing I succeeded in doing was to damage my cardiovascular system.

Please don't follow my footsteps. Please don't put youself into a situation where transitioning is not an option for you.

Please transition safely.

Love.

Brenda

[Guest Sentience]

Having read only 70 pages (of 480) of Bad Pharma by Ben Goldacre I would not trust any drug, drug company, regulator etc etc, not even a prescribed drug because GP's/doctors are fed distorted data and rigged cynical nonsense from immoral, money grabbing monsters.

[JJ]

HRT through a Dr isn't the major expense- it's those blood tests and the Dr appointments- and even self meding if you want any effect or degree of safety at all then you still have to get those. And it is true that finding a Dr to do it is hard. But not impossible, Anyone with a rare condition of any kind-as ours is-faces the same challenges. They don't decide to start ordering medications from the internet -they persist until they find treatment for the condition.

Informed consent is not optimal-and doing this without consulting a gender therapist first is asking for your road to be much harder and longer -but it is now possible with the new SOC. There are clinics around the country that do it and even do the tests far more reasonably than your regular Dr or endo. Maybe worth a redeye flight there. And saving for it even if you have to cut things to the bone to do it. So there are alternatives.

When I first realized I was TS I spent months reading every study on the net concerning TS/TG. I was bedridden and had 8 and sometimes 10 hours a day to devote to that and being here. I can tell you that not once did I see a professional person -therapist or Dr or scientist -advocate self medicating. Quite the contrary. The human physiology is very conplex and varied. There is just plain no way to do it safely. I have read here and other places too many first hand accounts of people whose self medicating did permanent damage to them and some of whom can now never take HRT and fully transition because of it. That is a stone cold fact. Telling yourself you can safely play with potentially deadly drugs is dangerous beyond description.

I understand the desire and I understand the need. I also understand that if you are determined enough, want it enough, you can make it happen the right way and save rather than sacrifice your own life in the long run

Johnny

[Kyla666]

I understand the need and safely of having a doctor check on you but what I don't understand is the lack of understanding that once someone has tried all options the only one left is self-med ... you can't sit there and tell someone you're dreams of being your true self will never happen and to just live with it. At best the person will try and will more likely know more about what they are taking then you.

I wish we all lived in this wonderful world where getting a doctor having the money is so easy to come by. But is not and if I hear the argument about self-med being more money I'm going the scream... you can get high quality meds at very low cost. More then half the cost is done by insurance.

[Guest Eliza_S]

I have never lived in New Zealand, but I have talked about the health care system there with a few people. (I have cousins from there.) Am I right in thinking that you are covered by a single payer system like England's but that there is also easily available (if you can afford to pay) access to private doctors as well? Perhaps you might be able to find a private doctor who is more willing to work with you. I am sure it is expensive, but I feel that once we have covered basic food and basic housing and enough clothing to keep you warm and dry, then the most important thing to spend your money on is physical and emotional health. Even if every spare piece of change you ever get has to be put away for a sympathetic doctor, I think it might be worth it.

[Charlize]

Please understand that I as one could never recommend self medication. The risks are far too great. That is why you will not find information about medications giving dosages etc on this site. We are not MDs and even if we were we wouldn't have the results of blood tests, family histories, physicals and the like. Taking meds is dangerous all by itself under the care of a professional. I took drugs in college. I drank to excess. Maybe i should be more understanding but there is a difference in taking a temporary chemical vacation and a lifetime of living with strong chemicals. HRT is not a one dose deal. This is a lifetime and way of life that doesn't allow for luck. It needs a skilled person to understand, regulate and watch over us. Johnny is right! You can make it happen the right way!

Hugs,

Charlie

[JJ]

I never ever said to live with it. Never have or will. I am a big advocate of transition. But live with it long enough to be sure you stay alive and have a good future? Yes.

FYI I live on Social Security in the deep South. There are only 3 Drs in the state listed as willing to treat even gays much less trans. I do understand difficult. I also understand that it IS possible even though difficult. There are places to get HRT once you have a legal script cheaper on the net. Not that you get what you pay for much of the time neither are they as safe. But they are far safer than the illegal sites which have nothing to lose and much to gain by ripoffs and scams and lax manufacturing. It's the norm. New info comes out all the time from the government and all sorts of watch dog groups. You are putting this stuff into your body. . But people have done HRT and gone the legal route in extremely challenging circumstances. It can be done. Guess in the long run it depends on the value you put on your life and future really.

But if you are determined then you will do what you want-it's just that before anyone does that they should know the facts and risk. The deck is stacked against you and the potential results are appalling. Searching the net for hard reliable info about it will make that obvious.

[Guest Melissa~]

Any pharmacy not playing by the rules is by definition not playing by the rules. I'm wary of the medicine sold. Every med normally prescribed except T and branded Premarin appears to be fairly common and available as Generics. If one believes the official line that every generic is as good as the original med I have oceanfront Missouri property to sell you. That should be amended to: "most of the generic drugs from companies that play by the rules probably are okay."

My personal take is find a second doctor and opinion. ( and choose doctors carefully in the future )

[Guest VexedVee]

Thanks Kayla666 for your input and allowing the opinions of this thread to not be so one-sided.

I'm only taking them as a way to FORCE the doctor to grant me access to a specialist.

I'll simply exaggerate how long I've been on them for and then they will have to get my blood checked.

The pills I'm taking are a low dosage so hopefully it will be enough to get the doctor's attention without causing irreparable damage.

Don't judge me when y'all are the sitting there having already obtained the treatment you desired.

Anyway I'm seeing a psychologist for the first time tomorrow evening so hopefully he can also help me by giving me a formal diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

I'll keep you guys updated on what's going on.

Thank you all so much for your interest in my journey.

Vee

[Guest Eliza_S]

Vee, I don't think anyone is judging you and certainly not condemning you. We're purely concerned with how good your long-term health will be.

[Guest VexedVee]

Um, I never said anyone was condemning me. What a huge exaggeration.

For the 2nd time, thank you all for your concern, and perhaps you could try to do less "selective" reading in the future.

[Guest Eliza_S]

Vee, I'm sorry. I'm new here myself and sometimes say things impulsively. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth that weren't there. Good luck on your journey.

[Guest angels wings]

Vee I can only imagine how frustrating this journey has been for you. As a community of people who care we do get concerned when we hear of people using non prescribed medications . We have many people who have done so and Suffered terribly as a result . So the comments are because we care . Eliza was trying to be understanding also. Maybe you could go to a different gp and see how that goes . Wishing you all the best with your appt today (((((hugs)))))

Angel

[Guest Lonelylostangel]

First of all, hello everyone I am a long time lurker (I read but never have the courage to post) I am living in New Zealand and currently awaiting an endocrinologist appointment.

DO NOT DO THIS, the psychiactrist will include it in your risk assessment as self harm, it will work against you in the long term.

If you want an endocrinologist appointment, the Doctors will send a referral and the endocrinologist will reject your referral. What you want is a referral sent by a psychiatrist Mine cost me about 400 dollars, it is better to go private as going through the public ones has a very high risk of getting someone who doesn't understand being transgender, and also its a long process as people a danger to themselves and others are always seen before you. (You never want to be grouped under that while transgender)

What you need to understand about hrt here in New Zealand is that Transgender is not life threatening meaning you will have to wait the full length of time once they receive your referral. Within 6 months of recieving my referral the hospital asked me to come in for a Psych assessment by their team to be sure that the report submitted by the psychiatrist matched up with who I was, it took about 40 minutes, that was last August and I have been waiting for my appointment with the endocrinologist since them, hopefully by next August I will have my appointment. THAT IS THE NATURE OF THE SYSTEM WHEN YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PAY.

The two Psychiatrist in the hospital appointment asked me about self medicating, which I said no. They told me that was good as thats seen as self harm and could potentially double the amount of time it took to wait for the appointment, as I would have to have extra psychological screening to see what risk I am (Or something like that) from what I could understand the hospital really doesn't want to get involved with Transgender, but they do because they want to. So they need to be 100% sure that whoever they grant an appointment for has the corresponding paperwork and is mentally well.

For my private appointment which was 3 appointments within a few week period... she gave a diagnosis under the Benjamin Standards of Care 2004 and a DSMIV diagnosis. She also sent the referral to my GP and to the hospital.

Self medicating will work highly against you and your end goal.

• Find a psychiatrist to specializes in gender issues and transgender patients. (Ask your local group for a name, if you are University you can ask your psych team at the university for help =) )
  
• After seeing the psychiatrist they will write a report and send it to your GP and the Hospital (REQUEST A COPY FOR YOURSELF)
  
• The hospital will most likely call you in for a small psych assessment, just to make sure things match up. If all is fine they will send a referral through to the endocrinologist (REQUEST A COPY OF THE PAPER WORK BE SENT TO YOU ALSO) if you do not, they will not send it and you will never see it.
  
• WAIT - and that's where I am now, it could take up to a year before things begin moving along. People with Diabetes and so on are always higher on the list than you are, but that's the nature of the public sector and unless you have lots of money to go privately, like our friends in America have to do, this is what you must do Its a long wait and I am only managing it due to continued counselling every two weeks.
  

I hope this helps, I spent 8 months trying to figure out how the process works and so I know exactly where your coming from. I am so glad I didn't self medicate because they made it clear... self medicating is dangerous to your end goal... you never want to be deemed a high risk to yourself and your health...