Jealousy Is A Terrible Thing

[Guest Mel7]

This is a really, really horrible thing but I can't help but be jealous of every gorgeous male I see.

I always just want to punch them in the face for being born in the right body and looking the way they do. It's really mean of me, but I can't help it. Not only am I a boy in this heinous getup but I have image issues. *feels really stupid for telling anyone any of this*

I don't mind wearing the clothes I do to look more boyish like I want to, but then I look like a d-y-k-e or a lesbian. I have no hate for either of those, but that's just not me. I'm a boy that likes boys, end of story. I don't want people think the complete opposite. I don't want to have to wait until I'm 23 in college to have my first kiss and I don't want to look in the mirror anymore to see something I don't like. I find that there is no solution for me merely because my style in clothing and other guys is what most would like to call 'emo' but purely for the fashion. I wear skinny jeans and bright colors with black hair and a lip ring. My style makes any boy look like a girl, but I don't want to look like a girl! I want to look like a hot 'emo' boy. I'm not slim, my hair is short, I hang out with girls. I don't know how to carry myself half the time and just putting all of this up here makes me feel like a weak person. I can't talk to my friends about it because I know they would go behind my back and tell me to shut up, even though all I do is listen to their problems.

I just want to know that I'm not the only that feels completely uncomfortable with their image, not that I wish that on anyone or anything. *scratches head*...I don't know...I just feel alone in this and I can never get a guy's opinion other than my own because I'm too afraid to talk to them. I'M JEALOUS OF THE CUTEST GAY BOY IN MY CLASS! Ugh!!! I don't know what to do anymore. My hips betray me and I'm too shy for my own good.

I hate this. I don't even know if I'm making any sense.

[Guest Evan_J]

You're not wierd or weak or stupid.

I'm not in your situation, I'm not even gay, but I'll try what I can to help?

What if you presented in layers? (Please work with me, its a brand new idea I'm formulating here....) I mean, first make yourself look "like a guy" -a standard, non-emo, "I play football" guy- then add the emo stuff? I guess what I'm thinking is sort of like in (its an old movie, you might have to look it up) "Victor/Victoria". -The main character -a bio woman- needed to be able to get a job, the one available happened to be as a drag queen. First she had to be a convincing male. Then she took that look and built the drag queen.. What people saw as "under" the drag queen was a man. In your case what you want them to see "under" the emo is a man.

God I hope I didn't confuse you.....

[Guest brandt]

well i have a style like yours. except i'm more of a skater guy. i know how you feel. though i don't quite have the same problem as you. but don't let this put you done. at some point all of us are jealous of those people that look so good in their own body. you will be the cutest gay boy just like the one in you're class. but you just have to wait. i know those words hurt. they hurt for me too.

the hips are hell. yes i know but well we'll have to work on them. I wear skinny jeans as well. but i'm a short slim guy. i've seen some emo boys in skinny pants sag. so i think maybe sagging could help straighten out your curves. but i'm not sure what you're body size its. it works for me. Then i just wear a long slimming tshirt. do you bind at all? well i know this wasn't much help. but i would like to try to help you. so goodluck. and keep your head high. don't get jealous.

[Guest My_Genesis]

I don't want to have to wait until I'm 23 in college to have my first kiss

Yeah, I'm a freshman in college and this is a big concern for me too.

Even beyond that, one of my biggest fears is that I'm going to end up the real life version of the 40-year-old virgin. Except it will be twice as difficult for me because in the movie he was born male

I think unless I have a "natural" male body (the best way for me to describe how I feel about SRS is that it's "unnatural"), I'll always have body dysphoria in any kind of intimate relationship. Just knowing that I'm physically different from biological males will haunt me every time. So I just have a total aversion to kissing/having sex with/etc. anyone until I function as any other biological male. Maybe I sound really crazy but that's the only way I can see myself being comfortable in my own body and in any kind of intimate relationship. (And I'm getting SOOO freaking impatient! lol)

And about being jealous of cute gay guys...yeah, same problem here, except for me it's the straight guys. Esp. the ones who are all "cuddly" and "cute" and all the girls are all over them...I just think to myself "c'mon, that's not even a real man. Why does he have like 50 girls drooling over him?" It absolutely disgusts me, because I'm so much more masculine than that, and he gets his own ten-some by acting like a girl! Totally not fair!!

I actually started wishing that he accidentally gets a girl pregnant when my RA told me he came into the dorm with two girls and asked her for condoms (they practically advertise them at the front desk in the lobby lol). I was like, are you kidding me?! I hope they're crappy and every single one of them breaks! (though I find out later that in college condoms have many other, more important purposes. such as door ornaments and orange juice containers )

So yeah I totally get the jealousy thing. Needless to say. LOL

[Guest My_Genesis]

PS mel, from one green-eyed person to another...

[Sally]

Hey guys,

There are worse things than being a 40 year old virgin - I'm 57!

I know just what you mean about not having sex or intimate relationships with anyone until you are comfortable in your body - I never managed it even when married (it was her second and her first was abussive so she seemd to be OK with it - not OK with me being TG, but I digress) so I'm a long way from SRS and my record seems to be stretching out before me - can I see the end in sight? Not sure, what is an active social life for a 60 plus transwoman?

Someday, when you are at peace with yourself you will find somone and things will follow their natural course, wherever that my be.

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest Silver]

I know EXACTLY what you mean. I'm also what they call 'emo'- I wear skinny jeans, converse, ect. Its just kinda who I am. But yeah, its hard to pass sometimes like that. I had to sacrifice a lot of my own style and wear traditional male clothes (not that I mind THAT, its just not what I want to wear everyday) and cut off my 'emo flip' (which I really, REALLY miss) to pass. I now go back and forth between masculine and feminine appearance, but I feel weird in half of what I wear.

I'm bi, so I guess I don't have as much of a problem with anyone thinking I'm straight. Still, its annoying that everyone assumes I'm a gay girl. . Unless I happen to be passing, then one of my friends will blow it and I'm back where I started.

Something that's kinda helping me is layering. I still wear the jeans, but usually I have my skeleton jacket over my shirt, and it helps hide my chest and hips. Also, a plaid button-up (in the right colour) can really work if you leave it open. I usually wear a thermal, long sleeved top, add one of my favorite tees, and then add the button-up. It actually works really well. A lot of 'scene' or 'emo' guys are doing that now. It may or may not work for you, but I thought I'd put that out there.

As for the opinions...I can't even try to help with that. I have major social anxiety, and barely say two words all day. Oh well. Good-luck to you.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Trouble maker Liz is back.

Goodness gracous! I am MTF but I love poking my nose into you guys stuff here at Laura's 'cause I am so opinionated. Discussion on this thread could be exactly what a bunch of us MTF would be saying, if you switch pronouns. I mean it is downright eerie . I shudda known, but I guess I never thought about how you guys 'wanna punch a good looking guy in the nose' because he is sooooo much what YOU wanna be and doesn't even appreciate it.

Turn that around. When a good looking girl comes into the room I check her out. Everyone thinks its lust on my part - NOOOOOO - it's envy. Makes me wanna sob - I wanna be just like her! See the parallel?

But guys - you have to do something like what I have learned to do. I make myself realize this georgeous girl is an exception. There are a lota women out there. Most not-so georgeous women would be just like me, jealous of her because she is so desirable and so perfect. So therefore, I am being just like a lota women - jealous.

As someone said - not everyone 'passes' - just look at half the women at K-mart! HA...

Guys, that good looking guy you are jealous about, well... men can't admit jealousy of another man, its tooo... well... homosexual in their minds.

You guys need to get into that peculiararity of the male midset

Hummm... men aren't jealous of how other men look, generally. They do get p****ed when their girlfriends lust after some Brad Pitt or Fabio looking dude. That's whan they wanna punch someone in the nose. It may be one of the causes of warfare - well with a lot of other things added - men are only allowed to get p****ed, and carry all that anger everyday.

Ha.... another thought here - most all men are semi-homophodic by default because they are always checking on their machoness level.

If you are FTM does that mean you need to be more homophobic rather than less, to pass and be accepted by other males? Probably. What does that mean for the androgyne person? And can a FTM truly say they are 'gay-boy' and also ever pass and be accepted? Is passing as a male homosexual satisfactory for FTM? Probably not for most (apologies to those who do prefer it - I am just being argumentative here).

I donno

You see, being jealous is a female 'characteristic.' so I am safe being MTF and jealous as 'HE double QQ' of another woman.

Now if I go punch her in the nose...

Well, you get the idea.

Dizzy Lizzy

[Flint]

KNow what you mean about the jelousy thing.

I get jelous when girlfriend lust after some guy who is apparenlty hot.... For the normal reason a man would but also because well she's lusting after a 'real' man and.....that then causes insecurties making me desperatley jelous of the man becuase well...he's good looking apparenltly, my girlfriend likes how he looks and he also has what men are ideally born with in an ideal world.......so then i end up hateing the person she is lusting after even though he has possibly done nothing to cause it appart from show her a photo where he looks good.....but i end up sitting there thinking "YOU illegitimate child!" lol

[Guest Evan_J]

You guys need to get into that peculiararity of the male midset

*.....burbs....scratches somewhere unmentionable.....bites another 2x4 and fails to comprehend half of whats said after the above line......

How'm I doing?

lol

And Genesis.....

Esp. the ones who are all "cuddly" and "cute" and all the girls are all over them...I just think to myself "c'mon, that's not even a real man. Why does he have like 50 girls drooling over him?" It absolutely disgusts me, because I'm so much more masculine than that, and he gets his own ten-some by acting like a girl! Totally not fair!!

Not every girl likes that kind of guy. BELIEVE ME. In fact, my own mother (a card carrying member of NOW and gungho feminist) said that when she was younger and dating that "soft , sensitive type" was a complete turn off. She likes em like they were in the first edition. And she's not the only one, plenty of young chicks think the same thing. It's just not always popular to say that at this current time. Just sit tight. The proof will be in the pudding.

[Sally]

Evan, Dear,

If you keep biting all of the 2x4s you will never get a chance to build anything!

OK, guys since the sensitive type is going out of style watch reruns of "Home Improvement" - watch Tim Taylor, Be like Tim Taylor, buy power tools and learn to burp the alphabet!

I think maybe there is a place somwhere between the 'girlie man' and the 'he man' - I know the average man!

Temper your macho with a little tenderness!

I like spicey foods, but I leave out anywhere from six to a dozen Jalapeno Peppers when I'm baking the cookies for the playground here!

Be yourself and don't be jealous of those other guys - they were born with matching sex and gender - How Boring!

Love ya my very gifted guys,

Sally

[Guest Jack Solomon]

I also have jealousy issues. Why do they (random guys) deserve all the female/male attention? Etc. Goth guys especially, there's some good looking ones in that bunch that get anything that moves. Next to them, I'm just forgotten. I want to be that guy, who's creative, intelligent, and funny. I have all those characteristics, but I don't fit the part in appearance at all. That I think is the most maddening, that we have these characteristics of maleness but others don't see it that way. I think to myself, well, I'm a well-rounded person, much more well-rounded than many of these guys I see. So why the h*** do people keep calling me honey when some guys couldn't string together a shoe much less make intelligent conversation? It's a pretty crappy deal.

So don't feel too bad about jealousy issues, we all have them.

I also wanted to add a few things. Emo guys still are perceived as guys even if people don't really 'get' them. Some may not think gender distinctions are not as important on the emo side of things but they are still there, at least in terms of being either male or female. I can see how this would be an issue for you, as you want to be seen as an emo boy because you are one, not an emo girl. Most of your other classmates probably won't understand the importance of this distinction and that's mainly what makes this so painful, because like you mentioned its difficult to talk to other guys about these issues because they probably won't get the distinction either. They might even take you as a cute, confused girl (this happened to me), which can be painful because they're not seeing you as a boy. So yeah, it can be difficult any way you slice it.

You definately are not a weak person and judging from your photo you'll probably reach the point where you're perceived in the way you want without too much trouble. I have probably no familiarity with the emo phenom (some with traditional gothic), but you definately have the look and you're already more androgynous compared to most folks pre-T. You'll get there.

Solomon

[Guest My_Genesis]

Turn that around. When a good looking girl comes into the room I check her out. Everyone thinks its lust on my part - NOOOOOO - it's envy. Makes me wanna sob - I wanna be just like her! See the parallel?

For me, that would be lust

Guys, that good looking guy you are jealous about, well... men can't admit jealousy of another man, its tooo... well... homosexual in their minds.

I thought it was a common thing for guys to be jealous of other guys

Crap. there goes my self-homophobia again. lol

I get jelous when girlfriend lust after some guy who is apparenlty hot.... For the normal reason a man would but also because well she's lusting after a 'real' man and.....that then causes insecurties making me desperatley jelous of the man becuase well...he's good looking apparenltly, my girlfriend likes how he looks and he also has what men are ideally born with in an ideal world.......so then i end up hateing the person she is lusting after even though he has possibly done nothing to cause it appart from show her a photo where he looks good.....but i end up sitting there thinking "YOU illegitimate child!" lol

EXACTLY!!

i hate that, there are these perfectly decent guys, guys that I get along with well and have a lot in common with, but that's exactly what makes me envy them so much. The ones that are like me, are like me - as a biomale. It's like looking in the mirror and seeing "this is how you should have been born, like this guy here. but really you're just like this guy, minus the vital male organs."

[Guest Crossroads]

I've had huge jealousy issues, although about different stuff. I was at a point not long ago that I despised anyone with children or that were married because I was "better" than them and "deserved it more" than them. Coming to terms with my gender issues has cleared this up for me.

Although I do find myself many times feeling alot of jealousy against the people who's family is paying for everything for them.

For many people, the way they look directly affects how they feel about themselves. But there are lots of things you can do to keep the "look" you want, but do more to "pass" as male. Of course, the best way to deal with things is to find others, like us, that are in the same situation as you. If there is a local community you can look to, I find that is the best. Actually seeing someone, watching their transition, while it sometimes makes our jealousy worse, it also gives us hope.

Blah, I feel so odd recently...haven't been able to express myself right. Just know that you aren't alone.

[Guest Evan_J]

Love ya my very gifted guys,

Sally

*Gives Sally a great big kiss on the cheek.

I can do that, she's my sister.

and by the way....

I like spicey foods, but I leave out anywhere from six to a dozen Jalapeno Peppers when I'm baking the cookies for the playground here!

Thank you for not killing me

lol

HOWEVER (this one's only a humorous "however" folks.....) Tim Taylor used to be my hero......[*manages to look both wistful and nostalgic when saying the name "Tim Taylor"] ....it was a long time ago.....(snif)....during my Black and Decker period......(chokes up)....God I loved that tool bench.....and just so's you know...."Ma" asked me to make toothpicks is why I was chewin 2x4s.....I really can't talk right now......[*puts on a brave face as the faces of Black and Deckers past flash through his memory.....]

Comedy relief aside:

Crossroads is right. Seeing and meeting real people really transitioning is a big help. Even though that is when I usually run into...

Although I do find myself many times feeling alot of jealousy against the people who's family is paying for everything for them.

I'm not exempt, I'm guilty of it too.

Still, its better than giving yourself a complex over some natal guy.

[Sally]

Just so you don't feel all bad about yourselves for feeling jealous of the natal guys with the great girls haging around them and you just can't figure out why - Natal guys do that too!

When I was working oh so hard to be a guy, thinking like a guy, trying desperately to get a girl interested in me - not to be just a friend, I would see a guy with one or more cute girls and try to figure out why him?

I believe that the phrase is, the other man's grass is always greener.

My mother used to tell a story of a woman who all of the girls were jealous for her perfect life, married her High School sweetheart, had a lot of money a son who was an outstanding athlete and scholar - perfect! She died from a lingering illness, not the perfect way to go, but immediately after the funeral her son went home and killed his father then himself - how perfect was her life? We only see the surface and form our opinions. And that is the very thing that bothers us about the way people view us!

Being human is hard - jealousy and prejudice are parts of what make us human, how we deal with them is what makes us humane.

Sally

[Guest Evan_J]

See, I never worried about the whole "getting girls" thing, and I really I suspect that if (please don't think I'm downing or lessening anyone's feelings just an opinion....) you worry over that less its picked up on by the women. The very best statement I ever heard with regard to wondering about women that way (ladies close your ears cuz I don't wanna do the heckling thing) is "the freak train is always coming."

It's true. There are always "more women" , there is always "another batch about to be depensed" , whatever way you want to think about it. And with that many women there is darn sure plenty 'nuff for everybody.

Ok, you can open your ears now ladies.

[Guest Mel7]

well i have a style like yours. except i'm more of a skater guy. i know how you feel. though i don't quite have the same problem as you. but don't let this put you done. at some point all of us are jealous of those people that look so good in their own body. you will be the cutest gay boy just like the one in you're class. but you just have to wait. i know those words hurt. they hurt for me too.

the hips are hell. yes i know but well we'll have to work on them. I wear skinny jeans as well. but i'm a short slim guy. i've seen some emo boys in skinny pants sag. so i think maybe sagging could help straighten out your curves. but i'm not sure what you're body size its. it works for me. Then i just wear a long slimming tshirt. do you bind at all? well i know this wasn't much help. but i would like to try to help you. so goodluck. and keep your head high. don't get jealous.

Nope, I have only ever bind...ed once and that was on halloween because I was a male vampire. XD It's not hard to hide my chest because it really is very small, but it just gets really frustrating cause I do see the slim, gorgeous guys all over the place and I, sadly enough, envy them for it. I'm not the smallest, though I'm not really big or anything. It's the pants that are the worst because I was cursed with hips that betray. >_< So, not only am I worried about looking like a boy, but I want to be a really really cute boy. So, it's either look good, or be stuck and hate it all. : / Thank you for the suggestions. I really appreciate it.

Emo guys still are perceived as guys even if people don't really 'get' them. Some may not think gender distinctions are not as important on the emo side of things but they are still there, at least in terms of being either male or female. I can see how this would be an issue for you, as you want to be seen as an emo boy because you are one, not an emo girl. Most of your other classmates probably won't understand the importance of this distinction and that's mainly what makes this so painful, because like you mentioned its difficult to talk to other guys about these issues because they probably won't get the distinction either. They might even take you as a cute, confused girl (this happened to me), which can be painful because they're not seeing you as a boy. So yeah, it can be difficult any way you slice it.

You definately are not a weak person and judging from your photo you'll probably reach the point where you're perceived in the way you want without too much trouble. I have probably no familiarity with the emo phenom (some with traditional gothic), but you definately have the look and you're already more androgynous compared to most folks pre-T. You'll get there.

Thank you! I think you understand. Like, out in the real world, I don't believe in much gender distinction, until it gets to the physical and other boys liking me. I think if a guy wants to be girly, that's fine for him, same if they want to be macho. I just want to be able to attract the type of guy I want without feeling like I have to be this huge girly, emo, fabulous girl when I would much rather be the guy I'm interested in. Haha. Thank you for the compliment on my photo, haha. I don't know, it gets confusing. I can easily pass as a boy if I keep my mouth shut and hide my hips, but then I'm afraid I look like an ugly, butch chick that the guys stay away from. I don't even know why I think that, I just do because all of my other friends are so distinctly one or the other. It's hard being androgynous, because then you're labeled as something else, which then I can't change because I'm too shy to talk to the cute guys I'm interested in. So much confusion, haha.

For many people, the way they look directly affects how they feel about themselves. But there are lots of things you can do to keep the "look" you want, but do more to "pass" as male. Of course, the best way to deal with things is to find others, like us, that are in the same situation as you. If there is a local community you can look to, I find that is the best. Actually seeing someone, watching their transition, while it sometimes makes our jealousy worse, it also gives us hope.

Exactly, and I've really been looking for some, but I can't seem to find any in Virginia. Ugh. And they don't have a 'gay' section at my bookstore at the mall so it's so hard to even find literature that makes me feel like there are others. : /

I really appreciate everyone's help. I have just learned to quote on this thing, so I might go back and do it again to make sure I got everyone. XD

[Guest Mel7]

Yeah, I'm a freshman in college and this is a big concern for me too.

Even beyond that, one of my biggest fears is that I'm going to end up the real life version of the 40-year-old virgin. Except it will be twice as difficult for me because in the movie he was born male

I think unless I have a "natural" male body (the best way for me to describe how I feel about SRS is that it's "unnatural"), I'll always have body dysphoria in any kind of intimate relationship. Just knowing that I'm physically different from biological males will haunt me every time. So I just have a total aversion to kissing/having sex with/etc. anyone until I function as any other biological male. Maybe I sound really crazy but that's the only way I can see myself being comfortable in my own body and in any kind of intimate relationship. (And I'm getting SOOO freaking impatient! lol)

And about being jealous of cute gay guys...yeah, same problem here, except for me it's the straight guys. Esp. the ones who are all "cuddly" and "cute" and all the girls are all over them...I just think to myself "c'mon, that's not even a real man. Why does he have like 50 girls drooling over him?" It absolutely disgusts me, because I'm so much more masculine than that, and he gets his own ten-some by acting like a girl! Totally not fair!!

I actually started wishing that he accidentally gets a girl pregnant when my RA told me he came into the dorm with two girls and asked her for condoms (they practically advertise them at the front desk in the lobby lol). I was like, are you kidding me?! I hope they're crappy and every single one of them breaks! (though I find out later that in college condoms have many other, more important purposes. such as door ornaments and orange juice containers )

So yeah I totally get the jealousy thing. Needless to say. LOL

Yes, Green eyes rock. XD

And I'm glad I'm not alone on that. Everytime shows like Sex and the City come on or something and I see all of the relationships I just end up thinking "Nope, not happenin' for me. No exes or boyfriends" which is weird because I have friends right now that have exboyfriends and stuff. I just end up thinking that I won't have a boyfriend even if I was more of a girl. I also don't think I would get any surgery because in the end, it really is what's in the pants that does it for me. : / I would rather go back into the womb and restart, haha. I want to say that it would be easier to be myself as a guy in college but then I hear that it's harder to have relationships outside of high school.

[Guest leo]

i wouldn't say i was jealous of other guys or anything, but i do wish i looked more male, i do pass a lot but i wont to pass 100% know what i mean and thats what annoys me

[Guest Jackson]

Whoa, so does that make me the unusual one? I'm not jealous in the least. Mostly I don't really notice how other guys look. I've become so apathetic about a lot of things since starting T that it's almost scary. Which, I guess, means that I also don't really get p**sed as much as I used to either.

[Guest Cody_T]

Whoa, so does that make me the unusual one? I'm not jealous in the least. Mostly I don't really notice how other guys look. I've become so apathetic about a lot of things since starting T that it's almost scary. Which, I guess, means that I also don't really get p**sed as much as I used to either.

nah, I don't get jealous of guys either. I don't even get jealous of people who are going out with really hot guys that I like. Maybe if I were going out with him first. I only really get jealous of people who are considered smarter than me when I know they're not

[Guest Liam]

I don't usually get very jealous of other guys. The exception is singers. Man, what I would give to have a nice rich tenor or baritone voice, instead of the alto one I've got now. Listening to my school's all-male a capella group - now that is what gets me jealous.

[Guest Evan_J]

See, I relate to you guys. You want me to be jealous of some guy, tell me he has money. lol. I truely give a rats what he looks like. Money though is like food and water. And the reason I would want it is to transition.

[Guest bronx]

Yeah I've never been jealous of another guy. I've admired other guys but never felt jealous of them or anyone else really