Obama's Inauguration

[Guest mia 1]

I should be so excited about this coming tuesday's ceremonies. I was a volunteer and contributor and obviously a supporter of Obama's campaign, since Feb. 2007.

But the fact that Rick Warren Is giving the invocation makes my stomach turn.

I suppose R.W. is well meaning and has faith in his God, but he worked so hard for the passage of Prop.8 that he is a danger to our community. He is one of those "christians" who believe "Hate the sin, love the sinner. Well my dear Rick we are not sinners and the idea that you believe we are, puts you in the "us v. them" camp.

So your smiling welcome all who seek him mask, doesn't fool me. It is the same speech through out the generations, "HE loves you", just as long you think and act like I do. The real god of the universe is not the one you preach about in your cash cow books, but a true god/goddess that loves us all for who we are. We are the creation of that diety.

Prop.8 is a hateful, self rightous(sp) spiteful overturning of a law created to allow people of the same gender to find happiness and live in and under the protection of laws that are in the state constitution of the state of California. In his self rightous way R.W. has taken that protection away from the people who celebrated the joys of equality.

What's next, the taking away of LGBT rights in the work place? You bet it is..........................Mia.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

I should be so excited about this coming tuesday's ceremonies. I was a volunteer and contributor and obviously a supporter of Obama's campaign, since Feb. 2007.

But the fact that Rick Warren Is giving the invocation makes my stomach turn.

I suppose R.W. is well meaning and has faith in his God, but he worked so hard for the passage of Prop.8 that he is a danger to our community. He is one of those "christians" who believe "Hate the sin, love the sinner. Well my dear Rick we are not sinners and the idea that you believe we are, puts you in the "us v. them" camp.

So your smiling welcome all who seek him mask, doesn't fool me. It is the same speech through out the generations, "HE loves you", just as long you think and act like I do. The real god of the universe is not the one you preach about in your cash cow books, but a true god/goddess that loves us all for who we are. We are the creation of that diety.

Prop.8 is a hateful, self rightous(sp) spiteful overturning of a law created to allow people of the same gender to find happiness and live in and under the protection of laws that are in the state constitution of the state of California. In his self rightous way R.W. has taken that protection away from the people who celebrated the joys of equality.

What's next, the taking away of LGBT rights in the work place? You bet it is..........................Mia.

YIKES - I hear your alarm!

I voted Obama and so did my entire family (if he had been down to the last 12 votes - well, we'd been famous!)

BUT Mia admit it. When you and I have been around as long as we have, we know 'POLITICS AS USUAL' trumps common sense.

So we need to blame those who condemn without compassion - Is that spelled "C h r i s ti a n C o n s e r v a t i v e?" - for promoting religious issues into govenment policy. Hey, isn't there a Constitutional Amendment or something....? Oh - obviously not... Liz what are you thinking.

Mia - as usual, we as Americans need to keep up our guard. Thanks for the reminder!

[Guest Sarah Marie]

So your smiling welcome all who seek him mask, doesn't fool me. It is the same speech through out the generations, "HE loves you", just as long you think and act like I do. The real god of the universe is not the one you preach about in your cash cow books, but a true god/goddess that loves us all for who we are. We are the creation of that diety.

Mia -- With this paragraph you have beautifully captured the heart of what is wrong with Christianity in this country. In chasing the dollar, the churches have turned their backs on their traditional mission: attending to the spiritual needs of their congregations. Rick Warren is no different than anyone else. If the pro gay marriage forces had more money behind them than the anti forces, I am convinced he would change his tune in a heartbeat.

I am hoping that, once Obama is officially in office, and the current gang is gone from the national stage, that this issue will fade over time. Furthermore, re Prop 8: I have read that California's Attorney General has reversed his position on it and has filed a brief with the California Supreme Court asking that Prop 8 be declared invalid on the grounds that it is unconstitutional. I hope, for the sake of the nation, that the Court agrees.

[Guest April63]

Well personally, I know I'm the minority, but I like McCain . So for me, Obama is the step backwards. I don't believe he has the necessary skills and experience to perform the job. He doesn't have a sound economic plan. Increase spending? Now? National healthcare? No thanks.

I know that this Rick Warren thing has caused some controversy, but I don't understand why. If he is only doing the invocation, then what is the big deal? Or am I missing something?

And last, my parents, actually my family, and many of my friends were strong supporters of Proposition 8. While there were some people that may have had hate in their hearts, the majority of voters didn't. My family and friends aren't self-righteous haters. I know you didn't mean anything personal, Mia. Also, there never was a law allowing people of the same gender to marry each other. Instead, an earlier version of 8, called 22, was passed, but overturned by the court.

April

[Guest Kelly Ann]

um...I thought Barack was supposed to be the great uniter Mia...what better way than to have Rick Warren do the invocation (hmmm what happened to seperation of church and state and Lincoln's bible no less), well maybe he didn't make you happy with his proposition campaigning pro-8 in Calif, he has written a really GREAT book though-The Purpose Driven Life...it actually allowed a woman to subdue some lout that was basically a ruthless KILLER...and MEANT to kill her...I call that some kind of inspiration that's ok by me...I didn't like everything Billy Graham ever did but he's no less a great man he did a BUNCH of them...I don't go to church and haven't since I was about 6 their sky isn't big enough for me...my dad DRAGGED me last time...it's funny now but it was a Wednesday, my birthday, he'd given me a Bible and made me promise to go with him to a Baptist Church (mom had died I couldn't deny)...but I was soooo miserable he's never done it again (he hasn't either)...it caused me to cry tears like the Mississippi was going to dry up and it was my mission to keep the water table up...I was about 49. Barack is a politician, treat him like one...bewahahahahahah...thay're all dirt bags...isn't that the Wikipedia defination of politician? DirtBag. Registered Liberterian, Kelly Ann

P.S. April you go girl...that is why there ARE elections...<sigh> I've probably allienated everybody now erm...what's new

[Guest Linus Thomas]

I thought there was a gay pastor also doing the prayer and sermon beforehand. It sounds more to me that Obama is trying to be open to all -- even those that hate us. Even Christ broke bread with those who killed Him. I think before we pass judgement we need to listen to all that is being said.

[Guest bronx]

Okay this is my take on this subject. First Obama is not the great savior, I'm a black man and some i my community beleve this to be. I do like him however. I thiink that he has the peoples best intrest in mind and I think that he has the capability to think outside of the box. As fae as him having Rick Warren at his inuaguation okay, he also has two other ministers speaking as well that are not against gay marriage. Politics is what it is, and if you all know a little about history no president has been without fault.

FYI, Obama just announced today that he will lift the don't ask don't tell thing from the military. Now what he ment by that who knows, but I think he gets it.

[Guest CharlieRose]

Also, there never was a law allowing people of the same gender to marry each other. Instead, an earlier version of 8, called 22, was passed, but overturned by the court.

April

Well, right, but in 1942 there was a precedent set in California that gave people a "right to marry." and the Supreme Court decided that it applied to gays, too. (So, prop 8 is unconstitutional... Which I knew already, 'cause, you know the Constitution is there to PROTECT the minority's rights from the majority, not take them away, but whatever, I guess if the mob is loud and spiteful and scared enough.... Over nonsense.... *sigh*)

And, yeah, at first I was like "Eh, say what?" when I heard about this, but Linus makes a good point. If not anything else, Obama is generally classy, and showing respect to people he doesn't necessarily agree with is a good example of class. (And Jesus-osity. Not that Obama is Jesus, I'm just saying it sounds like something he [Jesus] would do. Jesus was a pretty classy guy, too.)

FYI, Obama just announced today that he will lift the don't ask don't tell thing from the military. Now what he ment by that who knows, but I think he gets it.

I think that means he'll remove the "Don't ask, Don't tell" policy and so then gays will be able to serve openly. And, yeah, I think he gets it, too. Like, Biden said they were both against gay marriage (for gay rights, but not the word "marriage") but I think that's just being realistic. Lincoln swore he wasn't going to do anything with slavery to get more votes, and then once he was in office, well, then his true feelings came out! (In a good, get-rid-of-slavery way)

[Guest mia 1]

I've read the Purpose Driven Life the main purpose is to make Rick Warren, "Rich" Warren. The only one I know who has called Obama the Messiah are the far right radio commentators Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter.

I concede nothing. smiles smirks and winks so unladylike Mia.

[Guest April63]

The big thing I've been wondering about is how a California court will be able to rule Prop 8 unconstitutional when it is part of the Constitution. It's literally constitutional! It is the California Constitution! So the anti-8 crowd is gonna have to come up with some real good explanation to make the Constitution itself unconstitutional.

April

[Guest mia 1]

The big thing I've been wondering about is how a California court will be able to rule Prop 8 unconstitutional when it is part of the Constitution. It's literally constitutional! It is the California Constitution! So the anti-8 crowd is gonna have to come up with some real good explanation to make the Constitution itself unconstitutional.

April

The constitution whether a state or the U.S. Constitution is always under judicial review. This means that it is open to interpretation. That is why we have ammendments and rulings by the state supreme court ot the U.S. Sup.Court.

Slavery was part of the constitution and was legal and upheld by the supreme court as we have previously noted.

The XIII ammendment abolished slavery, the XIV ammendmennt gave equal protection under the law to former slaves, and the XV ammendment said that rights of former slaves are not to be denied.

So as yoiu can see the paralells are their for the Calif. S.C. to over rule Prop 8 under the equal protection under the law and the rights not to be denied ammendments.

Remember U.S. const. law supercedes state law as we have discussed before. This is under the Marbury V. Madison decision of Ch. Ju. Marshall's ruling in 1803, back when I was a young girl...................Mia.

[Guest April63]

The US Constitution never specifically allowed slavery. It mentioned slaves for tax purposes, and then the amendment was added. Similarly, the CA Constitution never said anything concerning two people of the same gender marrying. Now, the amendment says only marriage between a man and a woman is valid. So to change that, the people will need to pass an amendment invalidating it. While the court continually interprets the Constitution, it's pretty hard to interpret that any differently than how it is already being interpreted. The US Supreme Court could take it out, or a Federal law.

April

[Sally]

I have always tried to be an opyimist and I try to avoid politics. Why do I try to avoid politics? For the very simple reason that so many people place such high hopes and fears as to what the new folks will do in Washington - pretty much what the last bunch did. Oh, they will give the perks yo a different set of friends and they will have a very different public persona, but in the end it will remain 'Politics as usual'! When Lydon Johnson, then a Senator, attached a rider to an important piece of legislation - prior to the line item veto discussions - allowing for Senators to approve their own pay raises each and every year, it was supposed to be for the purpose of making it unnecessary for Senators to take payments from Special Interest Groups. That didn't work so well because you can not pay anyone so much money that they will not accept more! New folks go in like children with wide-eyed ignorance to the ways of the system. The endless exchange of back scratching and political favors as well as tremendous pressures to succumb to the system and within a few short weeks it is very hard to tell that anything has chnaged.

Don't get too excited - everything will be 'back to normal' by early March!

Love ya,

Synical Sally

[Guest mia 1]

TRue Sally. the old saying is Politicians come to Washington expecting to soak in a hot tub and leave floating in a septic tank.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

MIA

You funny!

Sally

Personally, politics leave me cold. I rant, I rave, I vote.

Month later SOS [same Old Stuff]

Liz

[Guest Donna Jean]

I have to admit that I get taken in by campaign promises. I want to believe so bad that I feel that they just MUST be sincere. I want to believe in the goodness of people. I want to believe in the inherent goodness of mankind.

But, just like Charlie Brown and the football..it's pulled from under me again and again and yet I still strive to hope and believe...

Dang...that's just plain naive, isn't it?

Naive Donna Jean

[Sally]

Naive can be good, it makes you genuine, but also vunerable (oh how I wish my spelling and vocabulary matched - so many times I have to change my entire sentence to avoid the words that I misspell so badly that no one could recognize them).

Naivity mixed with just a touch of caution and you can be very happy.

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest mia 1]

Right on the button Sally, naive is good it keeps us young and innocent and we alll are in a new world so we are young and innocent. Well................ahem,,,innocent, so astay naive Donna Jean, because just maybe things may be different,,,,,,,,,she says wistfully,,,,,,,,,,,

Spell checker would be a b lessing, but then again,,to misspell is human to overlook the mistake is divine.

#3 To April, the constitution talks of slaves as 2/3 of a person, not for tax purposes but for population as re[resentation for Congress, and as 2/3 for presidential electors.

Disgusting isn't it.