Was passing but not any more?

[Guest ValerieD]

I seemed to be passing very well last semester and part of the summer, but this semester that seems to have gone away. Many times the campus dining people have referred to me as male and I've caught at least one other person using male pronouns as well. My Dad keeps saying that any semblance of passing is an illusion and that people are just being polite, and I'm honestly starting to believe him. Thoughts? I have a picture in my gallery; the only difference since that was taken is that my hair is a tiny bit longer.

[Drea]

Casual passing is straightforward and fairly easy. By casual I mean in environments where people don’t know you or people you have occasional contact with.

“Passing” in places where people see you day in and day out such as school, please where the contact is repeated and regular, or where it is with groups of people passing is entirely different matter.

To an extent what you are experiencing may be your own perception. Perhaps you are looking for the signs more or your own standard for yourself has gone up whereas in the pass your expectations weren’t so high so a hint that you were mis-read went by less noticed than now.

Or it could be that after this time you are finding how different passing is after people have seen you around for some time compared to when you were someone they hadn’t really known. It only takes a few to suspect and word will get around to others.

[JJ]

Something in my transition taught me a lesson that may be a key or helpful here. I passed some but not much because I was focused on passing -on making people think of a male minded female as a male in my case. One day I realized I am a female bodied male and what I need to do is present myself as who I am-male-and not try to "pass". From that time on I started being seen and referred to as male almost universally. There are days that I do have when a long, long past comes back to haunt me and I let myself slip back into that passing rather than presenting my true inner self take over and that is when the few misgenders have happenedn.

Just relax and be the woman you are -strive to express yourself rather than a goal of passing and you may find an amazing difference. When we first start presenting and letting our inner self out I think we tend to project ourselves better sometimes than later when other issues and pressures come in and we start concentrating on passing instead.

As far as people being kind? If it was just that you would know by now. There are some kind people out there but there are also some jerks who would have also gone out of their way to let you know otherwise. I suspect your dad is projecting his own views into the situation, Those who have known us a long time tend to see what they expect and are used to seeing even when the change is dramatic for others. If I listened to my closest friend -or for awhile my family-I would have doubted myself all the time. Now they finally see too but it took quite awhile longer for them than anyone else.

You are a woman. It will come through if you let it. And what goes on in your own head will determine how successful you are at being accepted as who you really are than any thing on the outside ever will.

I do want to add though that for me and many others that voice and cadence can also be critical. Many women have deep or raspy voices as many men have high light voices-but the cadence and way of speaking instantly pegs gender in spite of that. For me I have noticed it trumps appearance as well. Maybe that is why what is in your head is so important. Because it changes how you speak along with body language

Johnny

[Guest ValerieD]

I think I stopped actively being paranoid about whether I pass or not a while ago (around the same time I started passing consistently before, actually). I'm not sure why things are changing now. In any case, I need to figure out how I can pass long term to people, because I'm graduating in three months and don't intend to come out to employers (or anyone else, for that matter).

[Michelle 2010]

To an extent what you are experiencing may be your own perception. Perhaps you are looking for the signs more or your own standard for yourself has gone up whereas in the pass your expectations weren’t so high so a hint that you were mis-read went by less noticed than now.

Or it could be that after this time you are finding how different passing is after people have seen you around for some time compared to when you were someone they hadn’t really known.

I agree that our perceptions can be built sometimes on shifting sands. Am I passing if I am out and about and not being misgendered to my face? If 14 year old girls aren't giggling? If I am not "sirred' by the server in a restaurant? and so on? If I spend my entire day not being challenged as being a guy in a dress? or blouse and makeup? Is that passing? Or is it simply being treated with respect or at least simply being left alone... Will I ever know what people really think? Or if they notice and simply not say anything? Am I degrading my quality of life if I am always being concerned about whether I look so much like a born female that no one can tell the difference?

I can make my existance as complex as I choose to, right? Maybe your dad and you are both right... Maybe the thing to do is find a different thing to do...?

As a trans person I am always looking at large or big boned women to see if I think they are trans. Hands, brow ridges, etc... the tells. The reality is I leave them alone and people leave me alone. The journey into Not Caring What People Think is a huge part of the process for many of us. Self acceptance and being liberated from bondage of caring what people think is huge.... worth saying twice as a matter of fact...

When we accept ourselves, others are much more likely to be comfortable around us.

Hugs

Michelle

[Drea]

“Passing” in places where people see you day in and day out such as school, places where the contact is repeated and regular, or where it is with groups of people passing is entirely different matter.

I would like to add one footnote to this comment I made. I rarely seen the additional challenges in these sorts of circumstance discussed. I attribute that mainly due to most not being in such situations cause those would be envronments where they came out so the people already know. For me it didn't occur till I changed jobs. People at prior job knew, they didn't at the new job.

When it comes to such situations, for someone who is fairly reasonable to quite good passing trans awareness is the enemy as the trans aware will be much more likely to spot the cues that will give you away.

I will also agree with what others have said about trying harder to pass being counter productive. It will come off as false.

If you have a problem with voice, or the way you speak, or way you socialize, or the way you walk, or anything that you want to change personally by all means do so and let it come naturaly and it will help in its own way.

I often hear statements like "just be yourself and the natural woman will just come out". If part of being oneself is acting or dressing in a way that draws attention and highlights masculine traits/socialization such is not going to help passing as a woman. There is however nothing wrong with being oneself and I don't think one should act in a certain way to conform. One should note that there is a tradeoff however and that passing is, at its root, about conforming to a certain set of expectations about appearance, behavior, manner and voice.

[Guest LizMarie]

I often hear statements like "just be yourself and the natural woman will just come out". If part of being oneself is acting or dressing in a way that draws attention and highlights masculine traits/socialization such is not going to help passing as a woman. There is however nothing wrong with being oneself and I don't think one should act in a certain way to conform. One should note that there is a tradeoff however and passing is at its root about conforming to a certain set of expectations about appearance, behavior, manner and voice.

Drea makes an important point here. I know a gay couple and one of them is definitely not trans at all, just somewhat butch. Yet she occasionally gets misgendered and has to deal with that both from men and women. And part of that is her choice to be herself, which is non-conforming, which has consequences.

So each of us has to decide what is "right" for us, but in making that decision, no matter how much we might wish for a world where gender was less of an issue, that is not this world today and we end up having to deal with the consequences of our decisions.

One thing you may wish to do once you graduate and are employed is spend some of those first paychecks on a voice coach, before too many people really get to know you, not just for the quality of your voice but for the cadence, rhythms, speaking patterns, etc. Getting that part "right" can go a long way towards establishing your acceptance among others.

[Guest ValerieD]

Looks like I'm gonna have to postpone laser hair removal even further than... I'm very self conscious about my voice. People tell me it sounds feminine enough, but that's just the one tone I use most of the time (my other tones of voice are as male as they've always been), and I'm not convinced that my voice is really feminine enough. I sound like a guy to myself, and I definitely haven't done anything with speaking patterns, etc. No idea what cadence is.

[Guest miss kindheart]

Hi valerie,

<<< hug >>>

sorry i decided not to view your picture, so i cannot tell you aything about that.

Instead i ask you to study a Master

his name was George Berkley

was an Anglo-Irish philosopher whose primary achievement was the advancement of a theory he called "immaterialism" (later referred to as "subjective idealism by others)

His greatest achievement has been called "The Master Argument" "esse est percipi" ("to be is to be perceived")

I think to be a woman you have to be perceived a woman

And to be perceived as her you need to believe you are her

So there you are

Say i am a woman now and forever

Say it , believe it be it, and others will too

vanna

[Guest ValerieD]

It's hard to feel like a woman when half of campus dining, WalMart, family, and probably everyone I've never met before perceives and treats me as male, I have to deal with five o'clock shadow, my hair still looks kinda masculine, my body is masculine, I'm incredibly self-conscious about my voice, my handwriting is EXTREMELY masculine, my face looks masculine despite my waxed eye brows, and I can't get my eyeliner to look decent even if my life depended on it. It doesn't help that, thanks to the gender ratio on campus, and the fact that I have no friends, I don't have the chance to girl talk with anyone, ever.

Maybe I'll need to find a way to leave home when I graduate. My Dad does a very good job of making me feel like a "man in a dress" (which is how he views all transgender people), and in the absence of any positive re-enforcement, it's hard to maintain a feminine sense of self. The last time I stopped caring about passing was when I got my legal name change. Unfortunately, I can't think of any other point in transition that will effect such a huge change in self-perception. Maybe I should have waited a few more years before going full time, but once I graduate in May I'll have nothing except going to work and sitting in my room at the computer.

[Guest Sarah Faith]

Hi Valerie, I'm sorry to hear you're having a rough time of it at school right now. Have you considered finding a support group for teens/young adults near by? I suggest this because from way you talk it seems as though you feel like you are completely alone with no one to talk to in person. You could meet some great friends at a support group going through or having gone through some of the same things.

There is a lot more to passing then just physical appearance hon the way you dress, move, and how you talk can all be pretty significant tells. Confidence probably goes a long way as well. There are really feminine looking normal cis-men, and really masculine looking cis-women who people don't really question their gender, and I think you actually look really cute in your picture.

It's hard to work your way through the mental mine field, but you have to just be you. Remember your dad's perceptions are obviously set in stone and you cant really let them ruin your own self perception. Like I said it might really be beneficial for you to find a support group with other girls your age

Be confident, and be happy, everything else should fall into place.

[Michelle 2010]

Hi Valerie, just checking back in here after not seeing the thread for a while.

I think one thing we all have to be careful of, and particularly youthful folks, is to not want to have a beautiful home to live and play in without first investing in the planning, getting the necessary skills, bringing on the right support team... all of which has to be done before the house is built and turned into a wonderful home. I think its the American Way to want it all and want it right now... Its the world we grow up in.

All of the concerns you mention in your last post are real... The fact is that we have no control over other people, be they Walmart shoppers or our loved ones. We can try to influence, but that's about it. So the real issue is how to handle ourselves as we attempt to get what we need and want. It may take a fair amount of time to get to where you feel you are totally passable so the question might best be posed as to how to get ok with yourself until that time.

How to do it? You decide. A good starting point might be to reduce expectations of how you think people should interact with you. They live in a binary world that you and I don't inhabit, right? Gotta keep it in mind that our battles are not theirs. Fewer expectations mean fewer disappointments... Accepting people as they are greatly increases the likelihood of creating friendships and avoiding a life of nothing but "work and sitting at the computor".

Ok, I;ll hop down off my soapbox now

Michelle

[Guest (Lightsider)]

Hi Valarie, I did not reply earier because I really needed to think about this. If I had transitioned where people knew me as my old male self I am sure they would have had a hard time accepting the new female me. When I first transitioned over 10 years ago and then detransitioned i experienced something. You see I started a job as a female through a temp agency. The job site did not know know about my past at all. But about a year in I felt I needed to detransition. (story for another time) Any way I experienced transition where people I worked with from Female to Male. I have never experienced MtF transition on the job.

My coworkers had a VERY hard time accepting the change. I was consistantly referred to in female pronouns even though I was presenting male. It is my opinion and observation that peoples minds tend to lock onto what they first met you as. So expecting people to change their perception of you is a pretty lofty expectation. This is where your Dad comes in, he is locked in on the old you. His percenption is narrow and is biased. So you can't count on what he is saying as the truth and reality.

The other thing I will say is, "passing" is a poor choice of word to use. Presentation is what I see as a more sensible word to use because that includes many aspects. Attitude, mannerism, physical appearance and so on. Do not let this get you discouraged, look at it as something to learn from. Did any one from school know you as a male before? All it takes is one to spill the beans.

[Guest ValerieD]

A zillion people would have known me as male before (I transitioned between my junior and senior years, so I had to come out to a lot of people; at this point, however, I never mention that I'm trans), but the campus dining people who clock me all the time were hired after I transitioned. Never had issues with WalMart shoppers; more like the pharmacist (who I had never seen before going full time). It seems like people that clock me tend to be older, in their late 30s or 40s, and more likely than not are men.

I'm trying to go stealth, so naturally it's a big blow to my self-confidence. I wonder if my eye brows had anything to do with it. I always seem to pass better when they're maintained, but since I had them waxed in December, they grew in faster than normal, and for a couple days at the start of the semester before I could get them waxed again, it was impossible to tell that they had EVER been waxed. My hair stylist had to start shaping them all over again from scratch, and for this reason I now pluck them myself, despite having to take two hours a week to do so.

Wish there was a support group around. My how I regret going to college in the middle of nowhere. I don't even know if there are other MtF students on campus (though I do see a FtM person every single day).

[Charlize]

I hate the passing topic because so many of us may never pass regardless of what we do. That is not to say that you won't at least most of the time. i have been in meetings where nobody knew until they held my hand. I've got big man hands and they are hard even though i always wear gloves. It is hardest to pass in situations where anyone has known you. I find that in my small town. I grew up here. Everybody has known me as a man. I have to accept that and do. No one makes fun of me to my face and most are very supportive. They will never see me as a genetic female and thats ok by me as long as the tomatoes aren't flying. It took me a long time to be honest and i'm not in a hurry to hide again. Don't know if that helps but i am confident now and that helps me pass in other situations.

Hugs,

Charlie

[Guest Sarah Faith]

That's a good way of approaching it Charlie. I mean we all want to pass, but the most important thing really is being happy with our selves. I'm still a few weeks out from even starting HRT, and I still dress in mostly guy clothes.. but I don't even bother trying to make my hair look non-feminine at this point. Even wear a cute necklace I've had for some time, I get some wierd looks but I just smile and go on with my day. I'm honestly happier doing this right now then trying to completely conform to the male role like I always had.

That's really unfortunate about the support group.

Well there are many ways to accentuate a female appearance one is you need to select a hair style that complements your face shape, you can also through the sparing (don't just go and glob it on!) use of make up accentuate certain parts of the face while deemphasizing other parts of the face. Eyebrows can also attribute to this, and so can mannerisms as others have suggested. Maybe try to do a little research online? There are some great videos on youtube for everything ranging from make up tips, hair styling tips, to even voice techniques for MTFs. Hopefully some of that can help you out a bit.

[Guest sophia.gentry58]

This is a most interesting topic indeed. I especially like what Vanna had to say with respect to dealing with this issue from within, rather than from without. It really is all about your own state of mind. Everyone of us either knows or has seen genetic females who look more male than female. Yet, even though these genetic women happen to look more male than female they carry themselves not as males but as females; why, because within their minds they are females notwithstanding how others may see them.

Sophia