The LDS temple. Ordinance that stops trans

[Guest (Lightsider)]

One of the things about the temple is a particular ordinance. This is part of the endowment process.

The reason this is important to the Mormon Trans experience is because it requires a level of nudity. You only wear a thin apron over your shoulders around your neck and comes down below the knees. The sides are wide open.

A temple worker will touch each part of body and give it a blessing. This includes your pelvic area. The reason this is important is so that Mormon Trans realize where another barrier is that keeps them from full membership and truly seen as equals. If the person is pre-op this would be a problem as there is a clear MALE and FEMALE side to the temple. If there is anything that would prevent the Mormon Trans from blending as their target gender regardless of Operative status this would cause big problems.

If you are male, a male temple worker blesses you. If you Female you have a female worker bless you. Interestingly enought this is the only place in the Mormon church where women weild the priesthood.

The Temple is strongly geared towards male or female. Nothing in between is recognized. Even androgenous members would encounter a problem here and might feel uncomfortable because they would have to be blessed as either a male or female and recieve a new name that is either MALE or FEMALE.

[Guest Xeriis]

The Temple is strongly geared towards male or female.

It is geared towards male and female, but there is no nudity or anything else that is posted. Just wanted to clarify a little.

[VickySGV]

Actually Nicole had been admitted to the Utah Temple and taken part in rites there years before acting on her GD and had personal knowledge of things that do happen. She says "element" which would fit into the rites that Joseph Smith brought into the Mormon faith system. Not full nudity, but symbolic approximations.

[Guest Xeriis]

Ah, I see. I have also been to the temple a number of times in the past (though not in the past few years). I can see what she was saying and I'm simply saying the picture she paints is much different from that of my experiences.

[Guest Jenn348]

One of the things about the temple is a particular ordinance. This is part of the endowment process.

The reason this is important to the Mormon Trans experience is because it requires a level of nudity. You only wear a thin apron over your shoulders around your neck and comes down below the knees. The sides are wide open.

A temple worker will touch each part of body and give it a blessing. This includes your pelvic area. The reason this is important is so that Mormon Trans realize where another barrier is that keeps them from full membership and truly seen as equals. If the person is pre-op this would be a problem as there is a clear MALE and FEMALE side to the temple. If there is anything that would prevent the Mormon Trans from blending as their target gender regardless of Operative status this would cause big problems.

If you are male, a male temple worker blesses you. If you Female you have a female worker bless you. Interestingly enought this is the only place in the Mormon church where women weild the priesthood.

The Temple is strongly geared towards male or female. Nothing in between is recognized. Even androgenous members would encounter a problem here and might feel uncomfortable because they would have to be blessed as either a male or female and recieve a new name that is either MALE or FEMALE.

I don't know where you are getting your information, but it isn't from a reliable source.

Yep, no nudity. The temple worker doesn't touch the pelvic area, only part of the leg or part of the stomach. The apron stays on the entire time and nobody ever sees anything they shouldn't. Many genetic women are told to fear this process, but my wife came back out wondering what all of the hype was about.

As for the new name, it's not really a name in the normal sense of the word. People don't use it like a name. I don't feel it right to go any further into detail, but I can tell you it's not really a name.

An important LDS belief is that we existed in a pre-earth life and our spirits were male or female. There is nothing in the teachings to preclude the idea that a male body could house a female spirit accidentally through a birth defect. In fact, the idea of the fall supports that mistakes can and do happen. If you read my other posts, you'll see that the church leadership is coming around on this issue. There are trans people who are considered worthy and go to the temple in their proper gender role (the one they actually want to be!).

People who believe they are sexless or that their spirit doesn't have a gender/sex, nobody is forcing them to be a Mormon. If their beliefs don't match ours, they are free to worship elsewhere as they please. See D&C 134.

Personally, I know my spirit is female and I am correct to strive to live my proper gender role. I know this from my own personal prayer. Just as Joseph Smith did, I asked God about it. For anybody reading this, don't take my word or anybody else's word (good or bad) about Mormonism. Ask God for yourself!

[Guest Xeriis]

One of the biggest disagreements I had was that 'pelvic area' was specifically mentioned, but not accurate at all. Anyone that has been to the temple knows that by saying 'pelvic area' it is purposely misleading and leads one to paint a picture that is highly sexualized when it is not. This is only one thing I want to correct, there are many, many others.

To those who wish to know about the basic principles and beliefs about what happens in the temple, there is a 40 or so page pamphlet put out by the church about the temples ("Preparing for the Temple" I think it's called, but I am not sure). Mostly members read this, but it is generally available to all. If studied ahead of time the temple is not an overwhelming or weird experience at all.

There are many things in life where we know the general principles, but never go into detail or ask others to share their personal experiences. Examples of a few are sexuality, your 'first time' and cis-female related items. Thinking of these, people are likely to talk about it a little among themselves, but often change topics or say much less with 'an outsider' around. Generally we think of these things as extremely personal or 'sacred'. This is no different for the temple. You would be more comfortable hearing about any of those issues in my life (and would gladly recount such if someone 'Must know' if I am serious), than I would be about sharing my temple experience. I do not feel we are 'keeping this a secret' from younger people or kids. They can read about it in the pamphlet, and similar resources, and learn most everything they will want to know. After family or friend has been to the temple, I am more than willing to share my experiences with them there, but generally not before or elsewhere.

An important LDS belief is that we existed in a pre-earth life and our spirits were male or female. There is nothing in the teachings to preclude the idea that a male body could house a female spirit accidentally through a birth defect. In fact, the idea of the fall supports that mistakes can and do happen. If you read my other posts, you'll see that the church leadership is coming around on this issue. There are trans people who are considered worthy and go to the temple in their proper gender role (the one they actually want to be!).

Sometimes one reason couples are unable to have children is that the woman actually has a xy chromosome, but for whatever reason her body still developed to where it is. It is reassuring to know that a genetically cis-male can have fully functional female organs, although not have children. I have also wondered about these couples in the church as it means there are two genetically cis-males together, but many never even know it. I was happy to find another opinion on the matter.

I also feel like Jenn348 and look forward to living in my proper gender role.

[Guest Jenn348]

One of the biggest disagreements I had was that 'pelvic area' was specifically mentioned, but not accurate at all. Anyone that has been to the temple knows that by saying 'pelvic area' it is purposely misleading and leads one to paint a picture that is highly sexualized when it is not. This is only one thing I want to correct, there are many, many others.

To those who wish to know about the basic principles and beliefs about what happens in the temple, there is a 40 or so page pamphlet put out by the church about the temples ("Preparing for the Temple" I think it's called, but I am not sure). Mostly members read this, but it is generally available to all. If studied ahead of time the temple is not an overwhelming or weird experience at all.

There are many things in life where we know the general principles, but never go into detail or ask others to share their personal experiences. Examples of a few are sexuality, your 'first time' and cis-female related items. Thinking of these, people are likely to talk about it a little among themselves, but often change topics or say much less with 'an outsider' around. Generally we think of these things as extremely personal or 'sacred'. This is no different for the temple. You would be more comfortable hearing about any of those issues in my life (and would gladly recount such if someone 'Must know' if I am serious), than I would be about sharing my temple experience. I do not feel we are 'keeping this a secret' from younger people or kids. They can read about it in the pamphlet, and similar resources, and learn most everything they will want to know. After family or friend has been to the temple, I am more than willing to share my experiences with them there, but generally not before or elsewhere.

An important LDS belief is that we existed in a pre-earth life and our spirits were male or female. There is nothing in the teachings to preclude the idea that a male body could house a female spirit accidentally through a birth defect. In fact, the idea of the fall supports that mistakes can and do happen. If you read my other posts, you'll see that the church leadership is coming around on this issue. There are trans people who are considered worthy and go to the temple in their proper gender role (the one they actually want to be!).

Sometimes one reason couples are unable to have children is that the woman actually has a xy chromosome, but for whatever reason her body still developed to where it is. It is reassuring to know that a genetically cis-male can have fully functional female organs, although not have children. I have also wondered about these couples in the church as it means there are two genetically cis-males together, but many never even know it. I was happy to find another opinion on the matter.

I also feel like Jenn348 and look forward to living in my proper gender role.

I think it really goes to show that there is no physical measurement somebody can make to determine the gender of a person, let alone what gender the spirit of that person is.

It certainly isn't genetics, because there are XY females and XX males out there. Plus, there are XXY and other variants where people have grown up to appear male or female. For the intersexed, they used to do a chromosome test and then assign based on that, but the brain's gender cannot be read based on that and the doctor ruined people's lives by assigning the wrong gender.

Measurements of genitals likewise have proven wrong, as have testing for presence of testicular or ovarian tissue.

The only 100% reliable method for determining what a person is would be to ask them! That's why they allow intersex children to grow up a few years without surgical alteration so they can let the kid tell them what they really are. There's no valid reason to not take that same approach for transgendered people, whose genitals appear within normal limits but whose brains have proven to not match up.

People who claim that God wouldn't make mistakes, or that a spirit's gender can be divined through eyeball measurements, lab tests or chromosomal studies are narrow-minded fools. Sure, in middle-school biology they teach it that way, but if we treated everything in our lives the way we treated them in middle school, our lives would certainly be a huge mess. Life is complicated, and the sooner people get that through their heads, the better.

[Guest Xeriis]

The only 100% reliable method for determining what a person is would be to ask them! That's why they allow intersex children to grow up a few years without surgical alteration so they can let the kid tell them what they really are. There's no valid reason to not take that same approach for transgendered people, whose genitals appear within normal limits but whose brains have proven to not match up.

I have come to believe that God has simply allowed some things to happen in life. If everything was very straight forward or set in stone, there would be very little diversity and much more black and white. Simply what would life really be like if we knew exactly where we were supposed to go, how to go there and when. I often think that though I may have a choice, the correct path would be obvious.

Although there are many understandings and intolerances now, it'll all work out in the end. God knows each of our circumstances, how we feel and the faces we've had to make in life.