How we feel when we look down

[Guest LadySophia]

When I first began doing my research about being transgender I read a lot about how trans girls hated their genetials, that they couldn't look down because it made them feel bad about themselves. I found that to be true about myself but recently that's changed I have a new feeling when I look down. As I continue with my transition when I look down I smile and think to myself "one da, I don't know when, but one day I will look down and there will be a vagina there". It's an overwhelming feeling and I get butterflies and even have reared up a little thinking of the possibility of feeling complete. I know it won't happen any time soon but I feel very blessed to live in a time where this is possible.

Here's to hope and the future!

And to all those post op women out there, I just wanted to say congrats and tell you how inspiring reading your experiences about this matter have been

Sophia

[Guest KarenLyn]

I don't hate my genitalia. But they're deformed. It's a birth defect I need to have corrected.

K

[Guest]

Hi Sophia,

What you said, "I feel very blessed to live in a time where this is possible." is a thought that occurs when I look down.

For so much of my life, it was a faraway fantasy - no more realistic than going to Mars. That the forces came into alignment and I was able to fulfill that dream - still makes me weepy to think of it!

I see hope, that surgery will become available to more people as time goes on. My wish is that this not be an impossible dream for anyone who needs it...

Love, Megan

[Guest KimberlyF]

I would guess the vast majority of TGs don't want or need genital surgery. Our feelings are unique and we should only do what we need to do, not what everyone else is doing in an attempt to somehow fit.

Sometimes the dysphoria can become easier if there is progress being made and for others it can be worse.

[VickySGV]

I am glad I have been able to share my experiences with people the last several months. I have told the story about putting three strips of yellow tape across my full length mirror in my bedroom, right where my crotch would show up on it with CONSTRUCTION ZONE printed on the tape.

Surgery has been one of my dreams since my early teenhood, and while it has not played out exactly as I wrote the script years ago, it is close enough. None of us can see beyond the moment, so what I may potentially do to anyone or their decision to transition by telling my story will depend on the responsibility they take upon themselves. I have accepted MY SHARE of the responsibility for harm others have experienced because of things I did in the past leading up to my therapy and recovery from Alcoholism which in turn empowered me to take responsibility for my Gender Therapy and transition. I now take full responsibility for the decisions I have made in regard to my life and decision for surgery, and leave you to be sure you can accept your own.

[Guest LizMarie]

I don't know if most TGs do or do not want surgery. I am not aware of any study done that indicates such. What I am aware of are two different attempts to determine the minimum number of transsexuals in the United States solely by looking at SRS numbers.

Back in the late 1990s sometime, Lynn Conway did some checking and extrapolated (informally) that based on the number of SRS surgeries that she was aware of personally, per year, that the incidence of transsexuality among males (MtF) was at least 1:2500. That directly defied the then assumed number of 1:30,000 from the APA. Subsequently a formal statistical study was done by a separate group looking only at SRS surgeries in the United States, by contacting surgeons in the US who were known to do SRS surgeries. And the number came out to 1:3000. Note that this more formal study still failed to count US citizens who had SRS overseas, and it missed any SRS surgeon who they were unable to identify.

So let's do some guesswork from that number - if the number of SRS surgeries is between 1:2500 and 1:3000 then for there to be more transsexual individuals who do not want surgery than those who do, the number of total TGs must be more than 1:2500. I've seen suggestions that 1:500 males have trans issues. So that would suggest (if true) that about 1:6 seeks surgery. I have no number at my disposal of actual frequency of males assigned at birth who experience GID, however, Kimberly's guess seems completely reasonable. My guess is that actual incidence of males assigned at birth who experience GID is probably between 1:500 and 1:1000 so that would mean that between 67% and 84% of all GID suffering males do not seek out surgery.

I don't know how widely it is used anymore but there used to be a classification scale for GID sufferers, from 1 to 5. It would be interesting to see percentages of patients, rated on that or a similar scale, and what each level of GID does statistically in terms of what percentage choose SRS. I'd guess that the 4's and 5's tend to choose SRS more often than not and the 1's, 2's, and 3's find other ways to cope. But again that is just a guess.

Does anyone have any pointers to any research on this?

P.S. Forgive my lack of information on FtMs. All that I really know about the FtM population statistically is that everyone seems to agree they are somewhat rarer than MtFs but not exceedingly so.

[Drea]

I don't know if most TGs do or do not want surgery. I am not aware of any study done that indicates such. What I am aware of are two different attempts to determine the minimum number of transsexuals in the United States solely by looking at SRS numbers.

Back in the late 1990s sometime, Lynn Conway did some checking and extrapolated (informally) that based on the number of SRS surgeries that she was aware of personally, per year, that the incidence of transsexuality among males (MtF) was at least 1:2500. That directly defied the then assumed number of 1:30,000 from the APA. Subsequently a formal statistical study was done by a separate group looking only at SRS surgeries in the United States, by contacting surgeons in the US who were known to do SRS surgeries. And the number came out to 1:3000. Note that this more formal study still failed to count US citizens who had SRS overseas, and it missed any SRS surgeon who they were unable to identify.

So let's do some guesswork from that number - if the number of SRS surgeries is between 1:2500 and 1:3000 then for there to be more transsexual individuals who do not want surgery than those who do, the number of total TGs must be more than 1:2500. I've seen suggestions that 1:500 males have trans issues. So that would suggest (if true) that about 1:6 seeks surgery. I have no number at my disposal of actual frequency of males assigned at birth who experience GID, however, Kimberly's guess seems completely reasonable. My guess is that actual incidence of males assigned at birth who experience GID is probably between 1:500 and 1:1000 so that would mean that between 67% and 84% of all GID suffering males do not seek out surgery.

I don't know how widely it is used anymore but there used to be a classification scale for GID sufferers, from 1 to 5. It would be interesting to see percentages of patients, rated on that or a similar scale, and what each level of GID does statistically in terms of what percentage choose SRS. I'd guess that the 4's and 5's tend to choose SRS more often than not and the 1's, 2's, and 3's find other ways to cope. But again that is just a guess.

Does anyone have any pointers to any research on this?

P.S. Forgive my lack of information on FtMs. All that I really know about the FtM population statistically is that everyone seems to agree they are somewhat rarer than MtFs but not exceedingly so.

Lynn Conway's numbers seem pretty reasonable estimates and while the assertion you come up with seems reasonable, TG doesn't equate with transsexual.

By Lynn Conway's own number, she lists the other categories all of which would fall under TG. Thus the percentage not desiring SRS among TG would be much bigger than even that 84% estimate.

I remember a stat that said that of diagnosed transsexuals something slightly less than 10% end up having SRS. This is consistent with what I know my therapist had seen in the client bases as well as a couple other therapist though I am sure it is varies. This also be consistent with the higher range of your estimate at 84% not seeking SRS.

Actually this less than 10% number (I think the nominal number was 8%) is of those who actually achieve SRS. The number seeking is certainly larger so it is entirely consistent with the 67% to 84% you mention.

[Guest KimberlyF]

Yes. There does seem to be the two definitions of TG floating around that leads to confusion. There is the TG umbrella term and there is now more frequently, TG=TS.

TG is not a diagnosis. It is a political movement and a self-identification. Not all TGs are TSs and despite what you may be lead to believe, not all TSs are TGs.

One only has to look at the title of the SOC to see how this plays out in the real world.

The title? Standards of Care for the Health of Transsexual, Transgender, and Gender Nonconforming People

If TS always equaled TG, the title seems a bit superfluous, no?

[Guest LizMarie]

Right, Drea. I was just doing some extrapolations from the few publicly available numbers on the topic and those seeking SRS do seem to be a fairly small subset of the overall group. Those numbers are purely guesses but they are (I think) reasonable guesses thus confirming Kimberly's basic observation.

[Guest]

When I first began doing my research about being transgender I read a lot about how trans girls hated their genetials, that they couldn't look down because it made them feel bad about themselves. I found that to be true about myself but recently that's changed I have a new feeling when I look down. As I continue with my transition when I look down I smile and think to myself "one da, I don't know when, but one day I will look down and there will be a vagina there". It's an overwhelming feeling and I get butterflies and even have reared up a little thinking of the possibility of feeling complete. I know it won't happen any time soon but I feel very blessed to live in a time where this is possible.

Here's to hope and the future!

And to all those post op women out there, I just wanted to say congrats and tell you how inspiring reading your experiences about this matter have been

Sophia

Hi Sophia,

I'm sorry that your topic has become derailed. I do so hope for you that your possibilities become realities. You should be in a better position than I was, and certainly those who have gone before me.

It was such a habit before - never looking down, never looking in the mirror, that it still continues. So it is that I'm happily startled occasionally when I do look.

I'm sure your experiences with that new part of your body will be different, but somewhat the same... I hope I get to hear of them some time!

Love, Megan

[Guest sophia.gentry58]

When I first acknowledged being transsexual I was still wanting to save my marriage and thus not wanting to have SRS. However, my marriage or the lack thereof is fait accompli, therefore, I do find myself looking down and now envisioning myself with a vagina. I don't know when or how, but my desire is to be a complete woman outside as I am inside.

Sophia