On Trans Fakers

[Drea]

I'd strongly suggest that the next time any of you come across someone you think might be a "faker", don't get out the pitchforks and torches. Instead, just let them be, because you don't know the kinds of issues they may have or any of their motives for doing what they're doing. If they do prove to be a predator or some other kind of person with malicious intent, then you can feel free to get out the pitchforks, but until you know for sure, don't create some kind of witch hunt. I'm sure the last thing anyone wants is for the community they enjoy to turn in to the Salem of 1692.

This reminds me a bit of someone, non trans, on non-trans site, who was faking their whole life story, after they just played out a "death of a child" sympathy ploy and were found out announced how it was the internet and they could be anyone they want to be on the internet. In this person's view, it was wrong that they be challenged about their fabrication but it is totally okay to prey upon the sympathies of others.

As I already stated, I am not a big on witch hunts cause they tend to be subject to seeing what they want to see and I will add it is unfair to the person. Ive been the target of such before.

On the flip side I do consider that there is more reason to intervene with a fake other than the person being predator or malicious intent. Well meaning folk can cause harm out of ignorance. Unquestioned support can be harmful as well.

[Guest sophia.gentry58]

I am not one that has ever gotten into being a member of any site or any chat room until I became a member of this forum. Furthermore, I have never heard of fakers before this thread began, or at least not in the vein being discussed here. Judging from the number of threads that this topic has generated just since yesterday, it is obviously a hot subject matter.

For my two-cents worth, I find it odd that a people who are ridiculed to no end and considered as being, weird, freaks, perverted sinners destined to hell fire would spend one millisecond even thinking of outing others who are allegedly pretending to be who they are not. I have many in my family right now accusing me of being someone (female) that I am not. No manner of convincing has been given them to make them believe that I am female in my brain and am only wanting to bring body into congruence.

I have spent years on this planet being discriminated against, maligned, and misunderstood. The last thing that I want to do is spend my time judging others' motives as to whether it's genuine or not. I don't doubt there are some here and other places that are not who they say they are, but unless they present a clear and present danger to others, why would we expend any energy in outing them when we know how we have spent our lives in dread that someone would "out" us and reveal our secret that we ourselves scarcely could comprehend?

Sophia

[Guest Melissa~]

I follow the forum rules I expect others to too. A big rule is only to have T or SO members. While the transgender umbrella is quite large, it definitely does not cover hobbyist trolls. Fakers have nothing invested in giving out experienced advice, and may cause triggering with real consequences, an unacceptable risk for allowing someone to post with nothing invested. No they should not be accepted ed or condoned. Again from accounts-closed I have observed here on LP there have been some bad actors, a large portion of them fakers.

As for my internet connected-ness, I have free net access at my job, it's a job perk I love (hint I'm currently at my job.) My SO also has net access at work, albeit in a more limited capacity than mine.

[Guest Melissa~]

Way back when when the net was new I would join chat rooms as a girl. I was terrible at it, maybe because I was being real and that's the exact opposite of what they wanted. They wanted fakes and pretenders. I'll never know.

The oddest part of this whole thread... IMO is that we are all really just fakers. PLEASE DON'T TAKE THIS WRONG, but we will never actually be the opposite sex we were born. We can have surgery, we can dress and talk and live as the opposite gender, but in reality, truth, we are just pretending. I know that's a hurtful statement and it's truly not meant to be. I'm in the same little boat as all of you and trust me, I mean no malice. I live as a woman. I have BF's (Finally) coming out of the woodwork. I go out with the girls and group with the girls when the larger group separates.

I'm completely comfortable in my role, but that's what it is, a role.

Again, please do not take what I'm saying as bad, it's not. I'm happier today than I have ever been in my life. I smile, I laugh, I do everything I always wished I could, but deep deep down inside I can't change what I was...

Back on topic. Some people are just hurtful pathetic humans. Why choose this tiny little group? very sad.

I cannot reconcile this. There are several women I know to have a TS past (transwomen). There is no question, or pronoun stumble, or role to it at all, they are women.

[Guest LizMarie]

It seems to me this conversation has drifted a long ways from where it started.

Anyone who is truly trans is, by definition, not fake. So please don't look at those lists and think it means you.

At the same time, I've seen the same thing Drea has seen - people fabricating entire personas and claiming to be someone else. I've seen people fake the death of the character they created, then return as a "friend" to bask in the sympathy. These are emotional predators, plain and simple.

So if you are here, I'll bet 99.9% likely that you're not a fake. You belong here. But it's always a possibility, a remote possibility, that someone is a fake. This is something to keep in mind with dealing with anyone online.

[Guest Megan_Lynn]

Playing Video games, spending a large amount of time online, is indicative of absolutely nothing beyond the authors preconceived ideas of what is normal, or not normal. People in their 20s in general spend pretty much all of our time online even not at home.. Sitting in a restaurant what are people usually doing? They have their smart phone within reach playing games, chatting with people, browsing websites. The author by using these as warning signs has basically just labeled almost an entire generation as fakers. The author can work with young trans as much as she likes, but that doesn't mean she understands them either doesn't mean she is even remotely interested in understanding them. I know many members who come to this very site who fit that mold and play MMOs, and video games alot.. It's not a sign of being fake, its an escape MMOs especially because of being able to socialize as female its like the chatrooms of the early internet but with an actual avatar. My therapist who works with people of all ages looked down on my hobbies because the simple fact is she couldn't understand them and couldn't step away from her own perceptions of what is normal or healthy.

World of Warcraft has attracted such a broad and diverse people from many different ages, social groups, backgrounds.. That saying that someone who plays World of Warcraft could be a faker, is like saying someone who likes lasagna is a faker. Its really not a very good sign at all and it just makes younger folks feel ashamed of their hobbies.

And I picked out several others that I thought were insane "red flags" I have a very well known post op friend that could meet even more of those "Red flags" and is one of the most aggressive pvpers in MMOs that I have ever met, and if I went by that list then I sure better be suspicious. I showed her the article and she too felt very offended! I'm sorry I'm sticking with my assessment that it is garbage, instead of keeping a check list to determine fakers and making judgements of people lets instead take what people say at face value.. If they are a faker they'll slip up eventually, and even if someone is a faker that is their problem and their issue not ours.

Omg I love lasaga does this mean I am a faker now.. Well crap looks like I just waisted the last 5 years of my live..Whooooo is is me...lmao.. Seriously though I can understand why one would play a game in what ever gender they decided to as its a game and has zero to do with real life. But to pretend to be a trans person for real is just sick and twisted.

[Guest N. Jane]

In reading this thread I was, at first, puzzled why anyone would WANT to identify as Trans. There is no 'glory' in it, it does not hold any 'status'. There is nothing positive or advantageous in being Trans - it is only pain and misery and financial hardship.

Then I started thinking about 'characters'. Years ago I had written a few books of fiction and needed to create characters, some short term and some that continued through all three books. In the process of writing, each character develops their own personality and become almost a complete and unique individual all on their own and not the writer's puppet.

There is a certain excitement, a thrill, to following a fictional character through situations one would NEVER allow one's self to get in to or through events that one is highly unlikely to ever experience in real life and I wonder if some 'fakers' simply get caught up in their own fiction. But then I am very trusting and easily duped so maybe some DO seek some personal gain or advantage through their fictionalized lives? ......

[Guest KimberlyF]

I'm going to answer and expand on my view of a question from Drea.

What I find interesting in this discussion is it almost sounds like some are saying fakes are okay. Am I hearing that right? Let me pose the question, if an online identity is proven to be fake, should that person still be welcome to continue in their fake persona? Giving out advice based upon supposed experience? Telling people to come out? all the sorts of stuff that one might see on a support site all the while bolstering the perception of any expertise based upon some fake experiences they have talked about?

I've run across fakes and I've run across real people who were just full of beans. I work with a guy who believes ever urban legend that comes down stream. He is real. If he said it was sunny, I'd bring an umbrella.

The net is an amazing source of information. But it only puts out what is put in.

Things get repeated as fact with absolutely no scientific backing. Repeat a lie enough and it becomes the truth.

An example is I have never come across any research of MtFs being a cup size smaller than their moms or sisters. To start, it makes the assumption that the mom and sisters all have identical cup sizes. The flaw is obvious. Then there is the reality and I know so many examples where this just didn't happen. But it is repeated over and over as fact.

Pointing out there are fakes on the net should be obvious, and how someone acts towards an outed one is up to the individual.

I take the Confucius approach. Fool me once, shame on you...

Now, I treat almost everyone identical. This isn't a witch hunt to out fakes. But I have to protect myself too.

The best way for me is to look at a person's individual post without regard of how I feel for them. Even a broken clock is correct twice a day. Does it pass the sniff test? Does it seem to make sense? Can I back it up in other locations? Do they have a study that provides info on what they say?

Do they claim to have life experience? Common sense is common sense, but if someone has just had a procedure that I'm having and can demonstrate knowledge, they would be better at answering questions than someone with a textbook answer.

Now sometimes people will post direct contradictions to other things they post. I almost never ask anyone if they're fake. There is a chance someone is young and nervous. But I have a pretty good memory and I know others beside myself are watching. I am not against asking questions on more info.

If you are just nervous and feel alone, it isn't in anyone's best interest for anyone posting here to make things up. If anyone is scared, tell the truth and most here won't judge or think less. Trying to make yourself bigger than life and getting caught makes people get impatient and distant.

And a topic about fakes is not about people questioning or people being 'not trans enough'. There is a huge difference. If you've ever experienced a real fake you feel violated.

[Guest Bellexia]

What I find interesting in this discussion is it almost sounds like some are saying fakes are okay. Am I hearing that right? Let me pose the question, if an online identity is proven to be fake, should that person still be welcome to continue in their fake persona? Giving out advice based upon supposed experience? Telling people to come out? all the sorts of stuff that one might see on a support site all the while bolstering the perception of any expertise based upon some fake experiences they have talked about?

Ok here is a better question for those of that are shocked and appalled by people lying on the internet. What do you propose we do to stop this? Should we make them pass a trans test before they post here? Should we make them post pics of themselves and their bodies just to confirm their honesty? How should we suss out the fakers and make these internet liars pay for the horrible crimes they have committed by trolling or lying on the internet? Gosh, it sounds to me like many people here are a bit naive when it comes to the goings on of the internet. People are going to lie, people are going to crap-post. They are going to do some pretty sneaky dishonest things, however if we choose to hold everyone in suspicions then we won't get very far. Let's just go along with your proposal for a bit. Say we do find them out, well honestly if this person is going to be dishonest enough to pretend to be something they are not, what makes you think they are going to stay banned for long? After all they proved they were smart enough to bypass many for a long enough time to play pretender. I am sure making a new account and getting a new IP is not going to be hard, nor is creating a new story.

Getting violated by this kind of person sucks, it really does but what can you do without alienating everyone else in fear they will hurt you? That list for instance, say we used that as a guide to sniffing out the fakers, you think that maybe you are going to catch some people but completely alienate the rest? After all many of us play games, many of us pass better than us, many of us are online all the time. That article was written by a older person who does not understand the newer generation. The older generation was built around the pride in being strong about feelings, the newer one is more open to telling others our weaknesses etc. Thus the older generation being completely out of tune with the newer one and it is sad sometimes but that is just life. I grew up with the internet, it was pretty much always there for me as a early teen. So in truth fakers are going to happen, it doesn't bother me. I've learned to take the good with the bad.

Thus my proposal to just kinda be meh about it. Welcome to the internet people, more news on trolling at 11.

Off topic, sometimes people are so naive about this general maliciousness carried on by the denizens of the internetz it just makes me smile and think oh how cute, I remember a time when I was shocked by people's behaviours.

[Drea]

The best way for me is to look at a person's individual post without regard of how I feel for them. Even a broken clock is correct twice a day. Does it pass the sniff test? Does it seem to make sense? Can I back it up in other locations? Do they have a study that provides info on what they say?

Do they claim to have life experience? Common sense is common sense, but if someone has just had a procedure that I'm having and can demonstrate knowledge, they would be better at answering questions than someone with a textbook answer.

This would be called critical thinking. Using what one knows, what other information supports statements, its internal logical consistency and so on to judge if the material presented "makes sense" rather than taking the information at face value. There is more to it. But in its simplest form, not pre-judge the accuracy, consider all perspectives (Maybe it makes no sense in one context, but in another it might be logical. Maybe what a statement can be read different ways), examine, reason and come to conclusion. And no matter what the conclusion is, be open to re-evaluating if there is new information.

What do you propose we do to stop this? Should we make them pass a trans test before they post here?

I think Kim's approach makes sense. I do something similar. Pretty much don't worry if real or fake, but address myself to the statements being made if it is anything I have a different perspective on.

Should we make them post pics of themselves and their bodies just to confirm their honesty?

Pics are a dime a dozen. In my view pics don't mean anything. There is no way to know if a pic posted belongs to a person or not. I've very rarely commented on any pic.

How should we suss out the fakers and make these internet liars pay for the horrible crimes they have committed by trolling or lying on the internet?

As I've said, I don't believe in witch hunts. Many of the fakes identify themselves readily.

Say we do find them out, well honestly if this person is going to be dishonest enough to pretend to be something they are not, what makes you think they are going to stay banned for long? After all they proved they were smart enough to bypass many for a long enough time to play pretender. I am sure making a new account and getting a new IP is not going to be hard, nor is creating a new story.

Maybe they will find easier pickings someplace else? Sure they can play games, make a new persona and come back. Every time however it is easier for them to get tripped up.

So what is the alternative? Just ignore them. Allow them to continue with pulling people's emotions? Allow them to continue to take advantage of others?

I recognize on a site like this there are folks who have never crossdressed, are not out, aren't "transitoning", aren't on hormones, haven't done anything other than have internal feelings. That doesn't mean they aren't trans. But maybe this conversation is somehow making them feel like it is being directed at them.

In my view, trans fabricating things or non-trans fabricating, both are being fakes.

Anyway I think proven fakes shouldn't be allowed free reign to continue their fakery. I feel I am a minority in this view.

[Guest Bellexia]

"Pics are a dime a dozen. In my view pics don't mean anything. There is no way to know if a pic posted belongs to a person or not. I've very rarely commented on any pic."

There are ways,, is this person posting updated pics? I think 4chan has it down pretty well. Yes I look like crap, been up all night drawing.

"As I've said, I don't believe in witch hunts. Many of the fakes identify themselves readily. "

Oh. Really? Now going back to the terms of what that article posted, what tells would you use to identify someone as a fake and differentiate from a person oh let's say, is living in ultra paranoia in a country they can be killed for being trans? Do you think the people living in these countries are going to give you clues as to where they are, etc anything that would tie them back to the person sitting behind the monitor? Does this make them fakers? How do we use this judgement without having some overlap and causing strife amongst those who are just trying to be careful?

"Maybe they will find easier pickings someplace else? Sure they can play games, make a new persona and come back. Every time however it is easier for them to get tripped up.

So what is the alternative? Just ignore them. Allow them to continue with pulling people's emotions? Allow them to continue to take advantage of others?"

We can't always play white knight, sometimes people are going to be hurt but they often become stronger for it and more able to deal with a extremely rare situation of the "fake trans" I know it's not a fair rule of thumb but it does help people become stronger individuals, after all what is a person who does not know tragedy?

"I recognize on a site like this there are folks who have never crossdressed, are not out, aren't "transitoning", aren't on hormones, haven't done anything other than have internal feelings. That doesn't mean they aren't trans. But maybe this conversation is somehow making them feel like it is being directed at them.

In my view, trans fabricating things or non-trans fabricating, both are being fakes.

Anyway I think proven fakes shouldn't be allowed free reign to continue their fakery. I feel I am a minority in this view."

Now now, let us look back up to the example I gave, miss Jane doe who lives in humbucktoo and has to be extremely paranoid over being who they are. Possibly the only means of relieving their dysphoria is to live their life online. That does not make them any faker than you or I.

I believe you are right but at the same time we cannot just openly attack them, what of the children? You aren't a minority, you are just looking at this too black and white.

[Guest Jennifer T]

I am not one that has ever gotten into being a member of any site or any chat room until I became a member of this forum. Furthermore, I have never heard of fakers before this thread began, or at least not in the vein being discussed here. Judging from the number of threads that this topic has generated just since yesterday, it is obviously a hot subject matter.

For my two-cents worth, I find it odd that a people who are ridiculed to no end and considered as being, weird, freaks, perverted sinners destined to hell fire would spend one millisecond even thinking of outing others who are allegedly pretending to be who they are not. I have many in my family right now accusing me of being someone (female) that I am not. No manner of convincing has been given them to make them believe that I am female in my brain and am only wanting to bring body into congruence.

I have spent years on this planet being discriminated against, maligned, and misunderstood. The last thing that I want to do is spend my time judging others' motives as to whether it's genuine or not. I don't doubt there are some here and other places that are not who they say they are, but unless they present a clear and present danger to others, why would we expend any energy in outing them when we know how we have spent our lives in dread that someone would "out" us and reveal our secret that we ourselves scarcely could comprehend?

Sophia

Sophia, beautiful post. Thank you for writing it.

[Drea]

"Pics are a dime a dozen. In my view pics don't mean anything. There is no way to know if a pic posted belongs to a person or not. I've very rarely commented on any pic."

There are ways,, is this person posting updated pics? I think 4chan has it down pretty well. Yes I look like crap, been up all night drawing.

Here you illustrate how not using critical thinking skills a pic can lend authenticity when it doesn't.

It is clearly a contemporary pic, but since I never seen you in real life I have no way of knowing if that is you or if it is someone you took a picture of or a picture of someone else whom you had take a picture of themselves at your request.

Assuming it is you, and I have no reason to believe it isn't, there is no way I can ascertain from the pic that you are trans or not trans and regardless, there is no way from a picture to prove or disprove statements not directly related to items in the picture can be judged.

Sometimes pictures, if they contain the right elements could be good proof of some occurrence, but each has to be taken on its own.

Thank you for providing an excellent example of what I was saying about how little a photo really proves and the way critical thinking can be used to judge the significance of a piece of information.

"As I've said, I don't believe in witch hunts. Many of the fakes identify themselves readily. "

Oh. Really? Now going back to the terms of what that article posted, what tells would you use to identify someone as a fake and differentiate from a person oh let's say, is living in ultra paranoia in a country they can be killed for being trans? Do you think the people living in these countries are going to give you clues as to where they are, etc anything that would tie them back to the person sitting behind the monitor? Does this make them fakers? How do we use this judgement without having some overlap and causing strife amongst those who are just trying to be careful?

I really don't understand the point of the question. It seems you equate proven fakes with suspected fakes.

Proven fakes are ones who have admitted it. Ones who have created multiple fake personas on one site. Ones who have one persona on one site and a different on another site.

People who have been met in person by myself or someone I know who have turned out to be admirer pretending to be trans.

I would also have pretty serious questions about someone found to have multiple online personas. I don't mean minor things like different names, approx. age or other specifics that might be for security, but entirely different stories such as one identity being a middle age post-op trans while another being a teen who hasn't come out yet. How does one know which of those identities is authentic if any are authentic.

"I recognize on a site like this there are folks who have never crossdressed, are not out, aren't "transitoning", aren't on hormones, haven't done anything other than have internal feelings. That doesn't mean they aren't trans. But maybe this conversation is somehow making them feel like it is being directed at them.

In my view, trans fabricating things or non-trans fabricating, both are being fakes.

Anyway I think proven fakes shouldn't be allowed free reign to continue their fakery. I feel I am a minority in this view."

Now now, let us look back up to the example I gave, miss Jane doe who lives in humbucktoo and has to be extremely paranoid over being who they are. Possibly the only means of relieving their dysphoria is to live their life online. That does not make them any faker than you or I.

Your example would fall under the first quoted paragraph of which none of this is directed at them.

[Guest Sarah Faith]

Anyway I think proven fakes shouldn't be allowed free reign to continue their fakery. I feel I am a minority in this view.

No I agree with you Drea, proven fakes can be dangerous especially if they can maintain their story get close to people and then do something like fake their deaths. Could cause a lot of harm, and I know this type of thing has happened before in the community..

I was only making the point that if you use the list that Paula shared then you could end up suspecting a good portion of people who are currently active here. We should always keep our eyes open for those looking to do harm, but at the same time we can't be paranoid of every single person here who may or may not have an especially interesting story.

Sarah

[Drea]

I was only making the point that if you use the list that Paula shared then you could end up suspecting a good portion of people who are currently active here. We should always keep our eyes open for those looking to do harm, but at the same time we can't be paranoid of every single person here who may or may not have an especially interesting story.

I don't disagree with that at all.

I do think the list Paula linked does list some common things, but those alone aren't definitive. Generally the more fantastic the story the more I doubt, but as I have often cautioned here and in other situations were someone has confided with me their suspicions about someone, even improbable things sometimes are true. I've known people who have gotten approval for SRS who haven't been thru RLT, yet there are folks out there who would see that statement and insist the person must be making up a story.

I think the bigger risk that someone gets unfairly treated as fake is not items that may be on the list but when people develop a prejudice against someone and start to see what they want to find. See apparent inconsistencies based upon how they interpret some statement which may not be what the person saying had mean't or had been a typo. I can't count the number of times I have accidently dropped the word not and turned a "do not" into a "do" statement. If I don't catch it, it goes out there causing a false impression.

Many folks would consider someone fake if on different occasions the person had made the following statements.

"I have no plans for SRS"

and then 6 months later the same person says:

"I am 3 years post-op"

This may look like a great inconsistency, but it isn't necessarily inconsistent. It all depends on how each statement is interpreted by the reader.

[Guest Bellexia]

I wish I could live in the realm of hyper paranoia you live in Drea, maybe then I could understand just how you became so distrusting of the world. Honestly this discussion is really going nowhere, believe me or don't. I honestly don't care.

[Paula ult]

I didn't think the list i posted would cause such a fuss, it was only posted so everyone could be aware that there are fakes out there and the tactics they might use, i give everyone TBOD until such time they give me reason to think otherwise.

The fakes i have seen caused allot of emotional damage, the biggest issue i have bedsides that with fakes is they sometimes give advice to others that could cause cause injury or death if followed, there are many in our community that are desperate and may try things that the fake talked about having done.

I have met me in person so i know i'm not fake.

Paula

[Guest Clair Dufour]

Everything on the web is virtual except Online Banking! We Hope. But, there is a big difference between Second Life where 50% of the members admit to crossdressing at least from time to time and Lauras amd other sites where people come to get help for what is a very serious issue for them. The moderators and most of us here have standard stock answers. Find a therapist and find a local support group made up of real people. Often questions are asked and are answered by menbers who have been there and done that. We all understand that there is a phychological factor to being trans but, reading replies from a person of why they can't, leaves me wondering if they are faking or have mental health problems and being trans is just what shows. I wish we could identify the latter for they need real help. Also, often I read a post here and wonder if it was written by a Phych Major doing research and I want to answer that WE DON'T DO HOMEWORK HERE!

[Guest ~Brenda~]

Indeed, destructive people have wandered onto Laura's Playground from time to time with the intent of causing harm to Laura's Playground and to the community at large. Without exception, all of these people are identified and dealt with.

With that said, here at Laura's we accept all people at different stages and levels. For those who are questioning and who are not sure about who they are should not fear. Laura's Playground is not only for those who are actively transitioning. Laura's Playground is for all people who identify to some degree as being transgendered. That degree varies from person to person, but the goal still remains the same...find the resources to know yourself.

Laura has been very clear about the dissemination of dangerous advice. That is why we are adamant about discouraging such practices as self HRT, juicing, and binding with ace bandages, and why we advocate therapy and the wpath SOC.

One does not to be anything but themselves here. There is nothing to prove to anyone here.

Simply be yourself regardless of where you are at and you will be fine.

Being transgendered is not an exclusive club. Being transgendered is simply a state of being.

Love

Brenda

[Guest Lizzie McTrucker]

That is why we are adamant about discouraging such practices as ..., juicing, ...

So I can't ask what's so great about kale that everyone seems to throw that in when they're making some weird fruit/veggie juice concoction?

[Guest KimberlyF]

That is why we are adamant about discouraging such practices as ..., juicing, ...

So I can't ask what's so great about kale that everyone seems to throw that in when they're making some weird fruit/veggie juice concoction?

I believe the SOC may recommend kale chips baked w/sea salt.

[Guest frida314]

quoted ""We all understand that there is a phychological factor to being trans but, reading replies from a person of why they can't, leaves me wondering if they are faking or have mental health problems and being trans is just what shows. I wish we could identify the latter for they need real help. ""

This is the answer that immobilizes me. Inordinate years in counseling for feeling life is not just right in me, never resolving "causes". From about 2nd grade, I have had to fake it to give me time to figure out what's going on. Therapy says I had to raise myself having only a child's wisdom at each stage of development to guide me. The conflict of mental health issues and inability to face dating, sex issues has been haunting. My marriage has likely worked as being friendly companionship. Since LP, it's a bit better. (? Another thread?). How can one come out, having to justify to wife et al that that it's not faking, that it's not knowing, that it's much more comfortable being girl on the inside. ((frida))

[Charlize]

Frida, Many of us know that feeling of having to justify ourselves to be ourselves. Please be kind to yourself you are far from being alone. I remember feeling just as you described and was unable to raise above that trap for 63 years. Perhaps this is something you need to talk about with your councilor or perhaps you might seek out a GT(gender therapist).

Hugs,

Charlie

[VickySGV]

When you do not know the name of a problem or have to use, as you call it "raising yourself on a child's wisdom" it is not faking about being Trans* or Cis in any sense of the terms. It is doing the "best you know how" which is often how many of us do it for years. One of my therapists got on to me, since I was also where I was raising myself as a co-dependent child about the fact that lack of knowledge prevented me from being and doing so much of my life, but that I did not know that I did not know. My adult models had not been useing adult wisdom and I had no pole star in them. Some people who do not take advice or learn from shared experience may be real people, but they have learned to not trust others outside themselves or have experienced harmful advice that they have had to fend off or suffer from. I can understand that, but IRL, I also know people who know they will not take my help if I offer it to them and are just seeking to get others to react. Fake or not, they waste my time, since I am traveling my path, now with Knowledge and maturity.

[Guest Jennifer T]

Frida, a friend told me when I came out to her that, "No matter what you do, you will never be a woman." How could I argue with that? How can I or anyone else here ever 'justify' ourselves to another? My initial reaction was to explain my heart further to her, to somehow get her to see who I am inside. But then I thought, "I really can't". I cannot make anyone believe the words I say. Neither can you. You can only speak what you know to be truth and sleep with your own conscience at night. That's the best any of us can do.

Several months later, my friend told me that she had been 'given a vision' of me. She explained this vision in detail. And without going into specifics, it matched something she could have in no way known anything about. I cried. She apologized for treating me harshly. And told me that even though she truly doesn't understand how someone can me TG, it wasn't her place to tell me who I am and am not. And that she loved me as I am. I cried.

The world may not understand, but I can not change the world. Nor is it my place to do so. It is my place, however, to be who I am, live my life justly, give mercy and let the work of change come about by the One through whom all things come to fruition.

Peace to you. Accept that you have nothing to prove to anyone.