What Makes A Man A Man?

[Guest bronx]

I wanted to talk about this before but I really didn't know how I should approach this subject but I want us all to think just a little bit more about what makes a man a man, and what is a real man.

When I was a kid around 4 or 5 I used to tell my mother that I was a boy. I would play with the boys in the neighborhood and get in a whole lot of trouble for doing dumb guy stuff. It all came natural to me. This was all okay until puberty came into the picture, all of a sudden I couldn't play with the other guys and I had to act a certain way. I had to be a Lady. I didn't do to well with any of it at all, i never really thought about it to much until I went to High school and I would get picked on by everyone that I didn't walk like a girl, I didn't sit like a girl, I didn't get mad like a girl. I was acting like a boy and that just wasn't acceptable because I was a "pretty girl". I wanted to fit in soo bad. I tried to be a girl, but I couldn't I was a boy. After I finished Highschool I started to hang out in the gay community, but I never felt comfortable there either. I wasn't much of a lesbian, and I wasn't a gay man.

When I finally started dating I would find myself only attreacted to straight or bi women and I always thought of myself as a boyfriend, never a girl friend. I was again picked on for not being a girl. I would get into arguments about who and what I was. A few years later in my 20's I met a ftm and I still didn't get it. I was dating someone at the time and she told me that I was a boy. I got some books and started reading. I"m a boy finally it all made since and I wasn't even trying.

I started to hang out with that guy and I found myself questioning him and my manhood, you see he would always say that guys don't cry, and guys don't show their feelings, and all this sterotypical stuff that society fills in our heads of what a man really is. And what makes a real man. I stopped hangin with him shortly after. I never wanted to get caught up in what I was supposed to be and how I was suppsed to act I just wanted to be ME.

Years passed and I stopped hangin in the glbt cummunity and I refused to have anything to do with anyother ftms. I would only hang out in the straight cummunity, and my roomate was a straight man, bioman. I really didn't have too many problems I was respected because I was just being me. And If you couldn't understand then we couldn't hang.

I started transtion and all the things that was told to me years b4 started to come up and I was secound guessing my manhood. I started to over think everthing to the point to wich I would out myself. I wanted to be a man soo bad that I forgot about being me.

Then one day it dawned on me, I'm a man, a real man. I cry, I get insecure, I get emotional at times and moody. You see all those years of living with my old roomate and watching him go through life issues I never doubted that he was a man, he was him.

So I guess what I'm saying is that we all should stop trying to secound guess every little thing and wonder is this what a man does. 'cause when I was younger I was a boy and never thought twice about it, I did what came natural to me.

When I started to change the way I thought about myself and stopped questioning my man hood I started to be treated as a man 100% of the time. When I stopped caring about what others said and let my inner child come out I passed 100% of the time. When I stopped trying to live up to what society said I was supposed to be I became a man. A real man.

Just a thought.

What do you guys think makes a real man?

[Guest Donna Jean]

Ok, Bronx....

I'll be the first to post in the FTM forum....Woman's perogitive! lol

Hon, you are SO right on the money!!

Who made the rule that men don't cry???? How many lives has THAT ruined?? Why can't you be emotional???

All of humanity has a need to emote and it has been proven that suppresion of emotions causes all sorts of bad things, both emotional AND physical!! Heart attacks..high blood pressure...etc...

And the emotional toll...who knows?

What makes a man a man? Is it the haircut? The firm jaw? (I know guys with a "glass jaw")... the Buick?

All of the REAL men that I know take care of their responsibilities, and are giving, loving people.

Real men fly airplanes? Well, girls fly planes...dig ditches, anyone can do that...

Nooooo. Real men also cry...JFK, MLK, Albert Einstein, George Patton all cried...who will say any of them are not "real men?"

Sweetie, thank you for posting this as I'm sure you'll have other replies...I just wanted to get in my 2 cents worth...I just hate stereotypes....that's what got us in all of this trouble in the first place.....

Thanks again...

Bronx....YOU'RE the man!

Huggs

Donna Jean

[Guest Zabrak]

My bio male S.O cries if I forget to say "I love you" one day(hes going to get me if he sees this ) but hes just as man as any man will get. I don't think I'd ever become that sensitive but that doesn't mean men cannot be sensitive or caring.

What makes a man a man you say? ZABRAK DOES! lol just kidding but I'm just as man as any - you are too. A man is someone who identifies as one. It's really that simple even if those 'super manly' FTMs want to tell you that you got to be THE ROCK if you want to be a man.

[Guest leo]

well you cant really define a man

but to keep it short and sweet,

you know if your a man by how you feel inside

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Another trans-woman responds here. I am in transition so I can proudly say that - took me a while.

I play-acted being male for almost 60 years - I thought I had it down - I mean the answers to "what is a man?"

Short answer - if you are truly a man, you are what you are. you just know you are a man.

Gender? I finally understand it now, your gender is what you feel is your true self. It is what you are in your heart. Any other definition is a sham.

Sex? Your sex designation was assigned at birth from appearances. You are actually a product of guess work based upon looking at your bottom parts.

However, you may be XX, XY XXY, XYY or anything. Yet what is between your legs is usually what you are assigned at birth, If what you have looks ambiguous, then the experts will do the DNA thing. So to be a man sexually is to have a penis and what looks like male gonads in a neat little package.

Your gender and your sex may match and STILL be incorrect - Klinefelder's Syndrome for example

You gender and your sex may not match, and still you are okay, you are just a transsexual. So fix the sex parts. you can never fix the gender part as you are what you are.

Wow - is that an opinion or what?

Notice I didn't mention anger, sensitivity, aggression, crying... playing with dolls, playing football - any of that? The rules are artificial, the rules they are a changing (to borrow from a songwriter). People today are expected to be what they are - more and more than before. So maybe it will be a real world of just 'people' someday - gender optional.

Lizzy

[Guest Microt]

Hey Bronx. I shall return your awesome rant with one of my own. I've had some pretty similar experiences myself, and gosh hearing this is sorta a big relief. I'm still struggling with that but really agree. As it is I've always been pressured into being a certain way and after a while that "all crazy driving force" of wrong really becomes an every day thing you have to try your best and get by with.

While a kid, oh hah, so very similarly I'd tell my parents and teachers I was a guy, goof around, hang out with guys. I'd actually up and ask my mom if the doctors at the hospital had made a mistake while around preschool and kindergarten, and all the people I hung out with were consequently, male. I never felt normal or myself anywhere else and man I can't say my parents were really happy about any of it. As it is I'm also what you could consider a "pretty girl" and my dad especially was always somewhat terrified and broken hearted by the fact I never acted like one. High school, later years roll around and you're told the way you have to be. That stays with you. Friends looking down on you stays with you. People not understanding stays there. That can be really hard and until I came out this year I've never had any real trusting relationships where I really felt someone saw me as me. Heck even after I met some transexuals it didn't click with me either. In fact, those first two people I met sent me in the other direction, always feeling uncomfortable about it.

I openly admit I have a huge beef against most girls. Why, well, being forced to be one and live with them has given me a sort of perspective and good bitterness against the general stereotypical female gender, which in itself is really pretty hypocritical as I have a good few girl friends that I owe the world and love to bits. So in a way I don't know, just going to school or camp or anywhere and being shoved in that category all your life...that's going to take a long time to let go of.

When finally coming to terms with all of it I've really never felt more relieved. Ironically came in a sort of same position as you, what with the friend thing. I have this friend, we're really tight, who was the one who first sort of sent me in the right direction and told me flat out "man you're a dude" and as absolutely grateful as I am to him, it's been tough to be myself. He's an amazing guy and genuinely cares about me, but I don't doubt we wouldn't be friends if I crossed that line where in his mind I wasn't a dude. He's also a transexual, he uh, probably wouldn't be friends with me if I was a certain way or was a girl at all and that can be hard with anyone. Man I think that's the first time I've ever admitted that too.

I think it was really actually posting here that I ever was able to for once not have that constant pressure that you have to prove something, have to be a certain way, have to fight tooth and nail and grit before someone can actually call you a guy and even then there's going to always be something there at the back of their minds pitying you or dismissing it altogether. Even if I've barely yet gotten into posting around too much, that's a really powerful thing to have that sort of support, even just for a second. =w=

Over all what makes a guy a guy? You're absolutely right and I wish I could remember that more often. It slips by you pretty easily and you can get so caught up in being what you figure society tells you you gotta be. I know I'm not your typical dude at all and it'll probably be a while before I can really stop struggling with that. I'm a gay man who might be a bit on the weird side but to hell if anyone thinks I'm feminine. I'm me.

....Man that was nice saying that. :c

But yea, just being yourself is probably one of the best messages you can give and accepting people for who they are is really an equally powerful one. Over all I just really hope I and other people can really get to terms more with that as you carry on through life...and hopefully get over misconceptions we may have too. *nod*

[Guest mia 1]

First of all that is one awesome smile. Whew! What girl wouldn't melt for that one.

Men are the people that accept responsibility and realize that they are not the most important ones. That the family comes first,and that your love for the family is above all the most important reason you are here on earth.

Strength in character true family values, not that bumper stick junk, laughing when you're happy and crying when you're sad,a nd not just for yourself but for the people in the world who suffer from injustice and death,like Dar-fur and so many hundreds of other countries.

Real men cry for cancer victims, AIDS victims those who suffer from wasting disease of the mind and body and cry for their pets when they suffer and pass on to heaven.

Real men and women are the ones who write and post on Laura's when they are feeling glad,sad or when they need advice and when they give advice.

You are a man Bronx. You left the situation in N.Y. and bravely moved to the state of Texas,not known for its' empathy to the LGBT community.

But you left found a job in a new place and with luck you'll be shopping and bump into a tall wonderful woman named ....Sally.

Whew...that's my answer to your wonderful rant....Mia.

[Guest My_Genesis]

When I finally started dating I would find myself only attracted to straight or bi women

Same here. Although for me it's even more so with straight women than bi. I always found this interesting. I don't really know what this has to do with the question you're asking but if what you're getting at is something like being attracted to more feminine women makes you more masculine I'm all for that

So I guess what I'm saying is that we all should stop trying to second guess every little thing and wonder is this what a man does. 'cause when I was younger I was a boy and never thought twice about it, I did what came natural to me.

Yeah this is something I keep obsessing over. If I do something like...use an emoticon on the internet or something, I'll start wondering if a "real man" uses emoticons. I see biomen use them all the time on forums and all, yet I still feel like it undermines one's masculinity to do so just because I've read that studies show women use emoticons more than men do. I just think in a very absolute way I guess.

[Sally]

What makes a man a man?

That is a great and seemingly simple question - surprise I am going to give a simple answer.

A man is a man because he believes he is a man - nothing more, all else is just for appearances.

As for me, "I am woman hear me roar" - wait is this from the Lion King?

What's with the roaring?

Love ya,

Sally

And that is a killer smile.

[Guest Zabrak]

Get too caught up worrying about how you act then you might get onto the girly side of things. I think females worry a lot more about how they act then dudes. I do as a please and act as I please because I know I'm a man already. The only problem is making it more manly looking on the outside now.

[Guest Cody_T]

Get too caught up worrying about how you act then you might get onto the girly side of things. I think females worry a lot more about how they act then dudes. I do as a please and act as I please because I know I'm a man already. The only problem is making it more manly looking on the outside now.

I agree entirely. Being a man isn't in how you "act" or what you wear. Yeah, you might have to change how you walk, look, talk, but being a man was there before any of those things and it'll be there after. The only thing you can do by worrying excessively about those things is make yourself seem like a girl- because as soon as you're worried, everything becomes an act. Even worse, you can't realize what it is that really makes you a man while you're placing it all on external things. If gender our were based on only how we looked, there wouldn't be any transguys or transgirls. So like Zabrak said, the best thing you can do is not worry about it. You'll feel better, look better, "pass" better, etc. Do whatever you feel you want to/need to, and if anyone has a problem with it, that's their issue

And mygen- I've read the same thing. And I almost fell for that before realizing that it really doesn't make a difference, and if it does I don't care So use all the smiley faces you want

[Guest bronx]

Thank you everyone for your great responses and ansewers to my question.

I was asking this because I believe us as trans people tend to over think how we act. Are we acting to this or that? I've asked some of my bio- friends both male and female if they ever think that anything they do might be either too manly or to girly the answer I got was no. That they never really think about it. That they are what they are everyday and that's that.

My wife is a pofessional chef and if some don't know it is a male dominate feild, it's vey phisical and you have to be under alot of stress constantly. She 's really good at butching meat and fish and she told me that most women don't do that in her field. And guess what she's all woman, and she never secound guesses that at all.

So again why do we do that. not all but some. I also notice that b4 I started to pass I would listen when people talked and all I could here was what pronoun they used to address me. I did'nt here anything else, just that. Wow somthing to think about.

Now that the world sees me as who I am, I no longer do that. I don't know if it's just at the point where I stopped secound guessing who I was and it outwardly shows or is it caouse I look like a man. But do I? I have facial hair, but I'm short and I have small hands and feet. I think it's how we feel about ourselves that makes or breaks if we pass. When we stop trying to live up to the stereotypes and be our selves that's what shines through. And believe me kids and older people see though everything, so I've observed.

Again thank you all and please feel free to respond some more. I just think that being trans makes us think a little bit more.

Good or bad.

[Guest Zabrak]

Just read your answer bronx - well put. Being on HRT is a good point. When some people feel more comfortable with their body they tend to worry less about how they act. I think we can all understand that side of things.

@Cody_T

[Guest Kelly Ann]

Dude you are looking rightous...aaammannn erm...aman...ahhhh...amen. There! Sorry...I was distracted by it all...Kelly Ann

[Guest Evan_J]

Write this down. For once I have nothing to say Seriously, I'm sitting and soakin it all up cuz , heck what everybody said was perfect and if I went down all the posters and hit every comment I liked......we'd be here all year. lol Short version (just like my sister Sally ) it all starts and ends with the man. No add ons. No "requisities"

[Guest My_Genesis]

Get too caught up worrying about how you act then you might get onto the girly side of things. I think females worry a lot more about how they act then dudes.

lol, but guys tend to worry a lot about how they act in front of girls

Also, if you think about it, would any of us be this self-conscious if we were bio-males? Probably not unless we were mtf

It's probably a way of compensating for a lack of physical masculinity. We need some way to not feel subordinate to bio-males in terms of manliness because of what we lack physically so we try to make up for it with behavior and such. That's my little theory lol.

[Guest Martin]

I agree that a guy is simply someone who identifies as a guy. I think a man needs to be a mature adult on top of that, but I don't have a real good definition of when that happens.

I understand the over analyzing thoughts, behaviors, and feelings. I used to do it a lot more than I do now. I think I've more or less come to terms with my own man-ness, and I feel more secure because I get the social recognition of my gender.

[Guest TBForLife]

Theres a lot of really great responses here so I'll make mine short and sweet.

Bronx, you're what makes a real man.

Thanks for sharing.

I too went through this baggy clothes, buzz cuts and tough guy phase and that was totally untrue to who I am.

Read a guide online on how to be a man, followed it to the letter. Hated myself even more.

Then I just went on whats inside. I still don't cry, I have a huge emotional threshold. I'm a very strong person.

I will admit though I am a nurturer, it's gotten me kicked off a couple of ftm only groups because I'm a stay at home dad who put his life on the back burner to carry and nurse children. Men don't do that. Well you know, this man did and he's Gosh darned proud of it.

[Guest MrAwesome]

The fact that I have awesome shoulders, and awesome muscles makes me a man. jkjk

I'm a man because when I look in the mirror, I'm only happy with myself when I see a man looking back at me. I'm a man because even just the thought of being female leaves a feeling of hopelessness, like the world is going to crash around me. I'm a man because no matter how much I'm told I'm a female, I am not. I'm a man because I like doing man things. I like fishing, and sports, and being outside, and building things, fixing things, I love painting the walls, or laying down floor tile, etc. I'm a little boy at heart, I love pirates, and ninjas! xD lol. I love war, and fighting, I'm a typical little boy. I'm a man because the only way I'm happy, and feel I belong, is as a man.

And I believe what makes us a man, or woman is whatever makes us happy.

[Guest TBForLife]

The fact that I have awesome shoulders, and awesome muscles makes me a man. jkjk

I'm a man because when I look in the mirror, I'm only happy with myself when I see a man looking back at me. I'm a man because even just the thought of being female leaves a feeling of hopelessness, like the world is going to crash around me. I'm a man because no matter how much I'm told I'm a female, I am not. I'm a man because I like doing man things. I like fishing, and sports, and being outside, and building things, fixing things, I love painting the walls, or laying down floor tile, etc. I'm a little boy at heart, I love pirates, and ninjas! xD lol. I love war, and fighting, I'm a typical little boy. I'm a man because the only way I'm happy, and feel I belong, is as a man.

And I believe what makes us a man, or woman is whatever makes us happy.

I'm a man because I look HOT in womens clothing. The thought of being female leaves me with a feeling that hey, I started life this way but I've made my own life the way I need it to be!

Now my lesbian roommate is a pirate, and she's worked in construction for years. She's a total Femme!

Its not what you do, but how you see yourself. I do makeup and hair, I'm a fashion sleeper and I'm in drag enough that seeing the "real me" shocks people. All the pics I have up of me in drag are with my own hair extensions that I do myself, and my own makeup as I can brag being a makeup artist.

But theres one thing. Lesbians can't stand dating me. I have guy habits and mannerisms even if I'm dressed femme.

[Guest bronx]

Somthing I wanted to send back to the top, for some of the newer guys to read and give some feed back.

[Guest InkCloud]

First off: THANK YOU, thank you, thank you, thaaaaaaannk you for posting this! On a purely selfish note, I needed to hear this. I've been getting pretty caught up myself on other people's perceptions of me, and I easily forget to be myself. But I'm young yet, so I've got time to figure all that out for myself.

I guess my own personal answer would be that I am a man because I am me! Which is an awesome epiphany I got while reading your post. Hahaha. Now I just have to work on not forgetting it, as I am apt to do when frustration takes hold.

I cry, I get moody, I stomp around ticked off sometimes. I hate working with my hands, hate sports, and can't tell you the first thing about a car. I'm also not too keen on the idea of having chest hair or hair under the arms. It's always been a turnoff for me, and I imagine that when I go on T, I'll wax if I have to. But at heart I'm still a guy. Something else that bothered me for a little while is the fact that I didn't fit the stereotype of a gay guy, because technically that's what I am. I don't do fashion. I just can't make myself care about armani, or feel shame if I'm wearing levi's jeans from Sears. That is something every one of my gay friends give me grief about, so the fact that I'm friends with oodles of stereotypical gay men didn't help me on that at all. Come to think of it, before I got caught up in it all, I used to get annoyed with guys who did the whole "equipment measuring" thing. I always thought it was the first sign of a completely insecure guy. And I got sucked in. How annoying. Hehe. No more. I vow to pull myself out of that state of mind.

I think another thing I've slowly figured out is that my identity as a man is only a part of who I am. Another huge part of me is the writer, and with that territory comes the entire persona of the dark, brooding artist. My emotions are the equivalent of a category 3 hurricane on a good day. But it's something I've always loved about myself. I love the fact that on any given day I can resemble any, one, or all characters in my stories. I love how my multiple personalities have counterparts on paper. I love the fact that I am the kind to wear mostly black, and sit in a corner watching people rather than interacting with them. I'm also a friend, a brother, and a son. All are identities I have always adored. And I can admit that those identites sometimes get lost in the obsession with proving to myself, more than anyone else, that I really am a guy despite my body. I shouldn't have to prove that any more than a bio male should, least of all to myself!

That's my rather lengthy spiel. It's the writer in me.

And with my feelings of liberation, I give the posts back to the other guys.

Thanks again!

Justin

[Guest Bax]

Another huge part of me is the writer, and with that territory comes the entire persona of the dark, brooding artist. My emotions are the equivalent of a category 3 hurricane on a good day. But it's something I've always loved about myself. I love the fact that on any given day I can resemble any, one, or all characters in my stories. I love how my multiple personalities have counterparts on paper. I love the fact that I am the kind to wear mostly black, and sit in a corner watching people rather than interacting with them.

Oh my god--I could have wrote this!!! This is almost exactly how I feel, Justin! I always feel like I assimilate characters in the stories I read (not the ones I write, though I suppose that's because I'm not a very strong writer), like I somehow become them, I don't know, I guess its hard to explain. I've always felt I'm acting the part of someone, and I've never known what it is to be me without the essence of these characters I portray; in a way, I guess that is who I am. The dark, brooding artisit--that is me exactly; I've ever been fascinated by suffering, in myself and others--and I wouldn't know how to exist without it I suppose. I also almost always wear black. And yes, there's the multiple personalities. Their counterparts are created by others on paper--not myself--but in me they exist nonetheless; at least, its how I feel.

And to answer the original question, I would again echo Justin's answer of: I am a man because, that's just me, that's how I see myself; there is no other alternative really. It just sucks when other people don't see it as I do because it points to the reality of how it is in some ways a facade; no matter how strongly I feel it in my mind, how inside it is really who I am, the physical portion of that reality is yes--I resemble a female. A tragic fact. Well, it is getting late, and I feel the writing bug trying to claw into my veins; I'm just about to post some pictures, seems like some kind of obstacle I've got to get across.

[Guest hayden_jude]

Justin and Bax - that's me as well! And by the way, I am a gay man and I LOVE Levi jeans. So totally don't worry about that.

About acting the part of someone - that whole sentence pretty much describes my life. Thank you for making me feel a little less insane.

I am a man because I am; isn't that the only reason that biomen have to offer? If that's enough for them, and it's enough for me, it should be enough for everyone.

[Guest A.S.]

Hey Bronx,

This bring tears to my eyes when I read the post there. Even my man cried last night when I read to him on this one. Who's say men can't cry.

I am the crossdresser FTM and I beginng to find myself more and more understanding about myself since I join this site. I don't feel like a woman for some reason because I also hang out with men, fought with men and geez, I put my male cousins to shame when it come to working like a man. Turn out I believe I am the one of man in this woman body.

Bronx, what you post on here make me realize and took a sit back and think more about myself. I even told my step-dad that I wanted him to show me how to do things as a man, (he don't know that I want to be a man).

I am going to stick around and see what I can learn more about myself.

Take care everyone.

A.S