Slimming down muscle

[Guest kayla.jade]

Well as the title implies, I'm trying to lose muscle. Hormones have been good, but seem to have stagnated recently with losing muscle. My biceps were 16 inches when I began taking hormones in March, and I lost 2 inches over the next 3 months. But the past three months have seen them stuck at 14 inches. I don't do any upper body workouts anymore now that I'm out of the military. Will the hormones pick back up and work like they did before, is there a certain diet I should be trying? I'm very happy that my arms aren't the gorilla looking things they were, but they still look way out of place in dresses and such.

[Guest jaymie]

To the best of my knowledge try going low protein in your diet as protein helps aid muscle growth and concentrate on doing lots of cardio. Your muscle should begin to be used for energy reserves.

Good luck!

[Guest]

You have not stated how long you have been on HRT. In 2.25 years my whole body has changed radically. Upper body mass is for the most part gone, arms and hands slim. In the five or so years of puberty our body changes do stagnate as does teens and preteens. The changes come for everyone. That's just about me and my $.02. Hug. JodyAnn

[Guest Megan_Lynn]

You have not stated how long you have been on HRT. In 2.25 years my whole body has changed radically. Upper body mass is for the most part gone, arms and hands slim. In the five or so years of puberty our body changes do stagnate as does teens and preteens. The changes come for everyone. That's just about me and my $.02. Hug. JodyAnn

Well I guess I am doing something wrong. While I have lost alot of my past strength have not lost one bit of my old muscle mass. Granted I never had any real definition to my muscles but did have some bulk to them. Guess its all the protein I eat and all the heavy lifting I do still. upper arms are a full 18 inches around ( way to big) and forearms tape out at 14 inches around . I never get looked at funny though but am big all over and arms are long so it evens it out some. Would love to drop some muscle mass but if that means staying away from protein I am in serious trouble as its my favorite foods. Could never be a vegetarian .. I am a firm believer that vegetables are what food eats...lol.. I cut out the sugars , cut out most all carbs , need my protein or will never feel full. so unfair damned if I do damned if I do not...grrrrrrr....

[Guest April.]

I have been wondering also about this, I dont know measurements, im not huge but way two toned. only been almost 8 months, have lost strength but my arms still look too ripped, always been athletic but i want to be as feminine as i can at 6'1", at the moment its too much.

[Guest KimberlyF]

There is a different way to have your body burn muscle vs. fat. This may get you started.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catabolism

[Guest]

You have not stated how long you have been on HRT. In 2.25 years my whole body has changed radically. Upper body mass is for the most part gone, arms and hands slim. In the five or so years of puberty our body changes do stagnate as does teens and preteens. The changes come for everyone. That's just about me and my $.02. Hug. JodyAnn

Well I guess I am doing something wrong. While I have lost alot of my past strength have not lost one bit of my old muscle mass. Granted I never had any real definition to my muscles but did have some bulk to them. Guess its all the protein I eat and all the heavy lifting I do still. upper arms are a full 18 inches around ( way to big) and forearms tape out at 14 inches around . I never get looked at funny though but am big all over and arms are long so it evens it out some. Would love to drop some muscle mass but if that means staying away from protein I am in serious trouble as its my favorite foods. Could never be a vegetarian .. I am a firm believer that vegetables are what food eats...lol.. I cut out the sugars , cut out most all carbs , need my protein or will never feel full. so unfair damned if I do damned if I do not...grrrrrrr....

Maybe we are not working off the same perception examples, 35" arm length centerline to fingertip, 12" dia. forearm, 13" major diameter, seems pretty skinny to me They would make Twiggy look like Popeye, yes I know, but there are many genetic females in my age group that have totally huge arms and Hon, it's not muscle. I have no idea what I measured in the old days, but torquing headbolts and fasteners on diesels at 660 to 1100 ft lbs took way more than this!

Oh Megan Dear, would you please stop by and move my sofa over there beside my bookcase so I can vacuum? Giggle.(Don't tell her I love big strong hunky girls! My hand over my mouth snickering with sparkling eyes.) Hug. JodyAnn

[Guest chibi_usa]

What's the average size for most women? To be more accurate average bicep size for women at age 21?

[Guest Megan_Lynn]

What's the average size for most women? To be more accurate average bicep size for women at age 21?

From what I have read it would be around 11 inches but factor in that the average woman is only 5'4" tall. So for one around 6' tall or so anything from 14 and under would look ok as long as it was not super defined. So I am looking at trying to figure out how to loose a full 4 inches off mine..

[Guest JayGray]

My thoughts, entirely just from my basic knowledge of fitness and nutrition, is to scale back on the red meat you eat, up your whole grains (I've never been a fan of low-carb diets; body builders do that to shed water weight before competitions, not to lose fat), and cardio, cardio, cardio. With the E in your system, your muscle development will be more feminine. My old weightlifting instructor would tell the cis women in class that they never have to worry about "looking manish" while working out unless they take T or go crazy with it.

If you eat less protein, your body will need to assimilate your muscles.

[Guest chibi_usa]

What's the average size for most women? To be more accurate average bicep size for women at age 21?

From what I have read it would be around 11 inches but factor in that the average woman is only 5'4" tall. So for one around 6' tall or so anything from 14 and under would look ok as long as it was not super defined. So I am looking at trying to figure out how to loose a full 4 inches off mine..

I'm 5'5 and I'm 12 inches. And girls STILL tell me I look buff ;( I need maybe 2 more inches smaller or maybe just less defined? Not sure >.<""

[Guest Raven Moon]

My thoughts, entirely just from my basic knowledge of fitness and nutrition, is to scale back on the red meat you eat, up your whole grains (I've never been a fan of low-carb diets; body builders do that to shed water weight before competitions, not to lose fat), and cardio, cardio, cardio.

This is correct. Animal protein is actually not good for you at all. Humans eat way more meat now than we did in the past. We are omnivores , and not strictly carnivores. You can get all the protein you need from plants. Studies have shown direct correlation to meat protein and cancer. And animal fat is especially linked to cancer. (watch the documentary Forks Over Knives)

I stopped eating meat entirely eight months ago, but eat fish, and lots of whole grains, beans and rice, etc. I also stopped eating sweets, except for the sugar in my coffee. I must have one vice dammit! lol When I miss meat I have a veggie burger.

I'm not very muscular to start with, but I am trying to lose some pounds.

[Guest JayGray]

My thoughts, entirely just from my basic knowledge of fitness and nutrition, is to scale back on the red meat you eat, up your whole grains (I've never been a fan of low-carb diets; body builders do that to shed water weight before competitions, not to lose fat), and cardio, cardio, cardio.

This is correct. Animal protein is actually not good for you at all. Humans eat way more meat now than we did in the past. We are omnivores , and not strictly carnivores. You can get all the protein you need from plants. Studies have shown direct correlation to meat protein and cancer. And animal fat is especially linked to cancer. (watch the documentary Forks Over Knives)

I stopped eating meat entirely eight months ago, but eat fish, and lots of whole grains, beans and rice, etc. I also stopped eating sweets, except for the sugar in my coffee. I must have one vice dammit! lol When I miss meat I have a veggie burger.

I'm not very muscular to start with, but I am trying to lose some pounds.

I'd be weary of making blanket statements like that. From my understanding, the statistics for reduced cancer risk in vegetarians comes from them eating more vegetables, not less meat; other studies I've seen show problems with cured meats, not meat in general. Also, fish is meat; this is a strange distinction to me.

We wouldn't have gotten where we are, as a species I mean, had we not been omnivores (we're clearly not carnivores; our intestines are too long to operate without a lot of fiber), our brains could have never grown this large. It doesn't have to do with the protein so much, it has to do with the readily available calories in meat. We simply didn't have grains until we created them.

Now, I think a vegetarian diet could definitely help towards slimming down muscle, as any unbalanced protein eaten (those not containing the right ratios of the amino acids that we can't synthesize) are going to encourage muscle atrophy. But I'm not sure that would be considered healthy by most doctors or dieticians. "Lean Meat" and Dairy are what most scientists have recommended to me (too bad I will die if I eat dairy; literally).

[Guest Kylie2112]

I'm trying to lose a of of weight from my shoulders and arms where I'm disproportionately big now that I've lost 70 lbs. since I started HRT. I'm losing weight from everywhere but where I really want to!

[Guest Megan_Lynn]

I'm trying to lose a of of weight from my shoulders and arms where I'm disproportionately big now that I've lost 70 lbs. since I started HRT. I'm losing weight from everywhere but where I really want to!

Luck you I went the exact opposite way. After Hrt the lbs went on like mad..

[Guest Raven Moon]

My thoughts, entirely just from my basic knowledge of fitness and nutrition, is to scale back on the red meat you eat, up your whole grains (I've never been a fan of low-carb diets; body builders do that to shed water weight before competitions, not to lose fat), and cardio, cardio, cardio.

This is correct. Animal protein is actually not good for you at all. Humans eat way more meat now than we did in the past. We are omnivores , and not strictly carnivores. You can get all the protein you need from plants. Studies have shown direct correlation to meat protein and cancer. And animal fat is especially linked to cancer. (watch the documentary Forks Over Knives)

I stopped eating meat entirely eight months ago, but eat fish, and lots of whole grains, beans and rice, etc. I also stopped eating sweets, except for the sugar in my coffee. I must have one vice dammit! lol When I miss meat I have a veggie burger.

I'm not very muscular to start with, but I am trying to lose some pounds.

I'd be weary of making blanket statements like that. From my understanding, the statistics for reduced cancer risk in vegetarians comes from them eating more vegetables, not less meat; other studies I've seen show problems with cured meats, not meat in general. Also, fish is meat; this is a strange distinction to me.

We wouldn't have gotten where we are, as a species I mean, had we not been omnivores (we're clearly not carnivores; our intestines are too long to operate without a lot of fiber), our brains could have never grown this large. It doesn't have to do with the protein so much, it has to do with the readily available calories in meat. We simply didn't have grains until we created them.

Now, I think a vegetarian diet could definitely help towards slimming down muscle, as any unbalanced protein eaten (those not containing the right ratios of the amino acids that we can't synthesize) are going to encourage muscle atrophy. But I'm not sure that would be considered healthy by most doctors or dieticians. "Lean Meat" and Dairy are what most scientists have recommended to me (too bad I will die if I eat dairy; literally).

Hi, with all due respect, I was not making a blanket statement. This is based on research that has been done numerous times. Watch the documentary "Forks Over Knives", or visit the website for all the data.

The Wikipedia article sums it up like this:

"Through an examination of the careers of American physician Caldwell Esselstyn and professor of nutritional biochemistry T. Colin Campbell, Forks Over Knives suggests that 'most, if not all, of the degenerative diseases that afflict us can be controlled, or even reversed, by rejecting our present menu of animal-based and processed foods.'"

Caldwell Esselstyn was President Bill Clinton's doctor when Clinton had his heart problem.

In the film they show a study where rats fed animal protein was induced cancer, and then when removed from the animal protein they went into remission. When it was reintroduced in their diet, the caner returned.

Animal fat consumption has been tied to prostate and colon cancer.

While its true that humans are omnivores, meat was never as big a part of our diet as it is now. Humans were hunters and gathers, but much of the food we ate was plant based. In the documentary they show several studies that showed as meat consumption rose in places like japan, so did cancer and heart disease. Meat was never as large a part of their diets. The same thing happened in Scandinavia during WWII. And look at all the obese people in the US? It's also processed foods.

There was also the "China Study", a book by T. Colin Campbell, Jacob Gould Schurman Professor Emeritus of Nutritional Biochemistry at Cornell University, and his son Thomas M. Campbell II, a physician. It examines the relationship between the consumption of animal products (including dairy) and a variety of chronic illnesses, such as coronary heart disease, diabetes, and cancers of the breast, prostate and bowel.

The study examined mortality rates from 48 forms of cancer and other chronic diseases from 1973 to 1975 in 65 counties in China; the data was correlated with 1983–84 dietary surveys and bloodwork from 6,500 people, 100 from each county. The study concluded that counties with a high consumption of animal-based foods in 1983–84 were more likely to have had higher death rates from "Western" diseases as of 1973–75, while the opposite was true for counties that ate more plant foods in 1983–84. The study was conducted in those counties because they had genetically similar populations that tended, over generations, to live in the same way in the same place, and eat diets specific to those regions.

There are many more data sets on this. Sure, eat meat, but not every day, and for crying out loud, not at McDonalds! One a week is all you need. I eat fish once a week, and maybe an egg.

Also, cattle farming for beef is a huge polluter of the planet because the cattle are not raised as they would have been with smaller herds. They produce huge amounts of waste too.

I grew up eating meat like many people. I feel much better now that I don't, and I have lost all my extra weight without even trying. I've gotten so many compliments this week it made my head spin!

[Guest Sannara]

I learned a big lesson in the act of attempting to lose weight. Let me first say, This was the case for me in a single event. For myself I've found it to be true. I had always had moments of weight fluctuations. You are exercising, getting your cardio in, yet you gain a little instead of lose. I had heard that keeping your hormonal levels as balance as possible greatly effects weight lose. Well, I was only loosely paying attention to this fact when I took a very difficult hike earlier this summer. I had become accustom to what I could expect in the way of weight loss on such trips. However, earlier in that week I had run out of my prescription, two days before the hike. I was therefore low and unbalanced. Seeing no consequence at the time and knowing the prescription would be filled the next day, I went an tackled this exceptionally difficult hike.

For those that are familiar with Colorado, I went to "Hanging Lake". Simply described, as a trail that's little over a mile straight up. It was an exceptional climb, and workout for my legs.

However in the few days after that I expected to lose some weight as I normally would but instead I gained and exceptional amount mostly in muscle mass. Since that time I tested that assertion again to find that for me if I haven't taken my regiment. My body responds to exercise, mostly, as a male. So since then I've been really careful to fulfill my regiment properly especially when I'm planning a major exercise event. And doing so has prevented, for the most part, undesired jumps in weight gain.

Hopefully there is some useful insight within my experience for others.

And have hope, I've gone from a size 19" arm to my current 14". You can get there. XOXO

[Guest Megan_Lynn]

My thoughts, entirely just from my basic knowledge of fitness and nutrition, is to scale back on the red meat you eat, up your whole grains (I've never been a fan of low-carb diets; body builders do that to shed water weight before competitions, not to lose fat), and cardio, cardio, cardio.

This is correct. Animal protein is actually not good for you at all. Humans eat way more meat now than we did in the past. We are omnivores , and not strictly carnivores. You can get all the protein you need from plants. Studies have shown direct correlation to meat protein and cancer. And animal fat is especially linked to cancer. (watch the documentary Forks Over Knives)

I stopped eating meat entirely eight months ago, but eat fish, and lots of whole grains, beans and rice, etc. I also stopped eating sweets, except for the sugar in my coffee. I must have one vice dammit! lol When I miss meat I have a veggie burger.

I'm not very muscular to start with, but I am trying to lose some pounds.

I'd be weary of making blanket statements like that. From my understanding, the statistics for reduced cancer risk in vegetarians comes from them eating more vegetables, not less meat; other studies I've seen show problems with cured meats, not meat in general. Also, fish is meat; this is a strange distinction to me.

We wouldn't have gotten where we are, as a species I mean, had we not been omnivores (we're clearly not carnivores; our intestines are too long to operate without a lot of fiber), our brains could have never grown this large. It doesn't have to do with the protein so much, it has to do with the readily available calories in meat. We simply didn't have grains until we created them.

Now, I think a vegetarian diet could definitely help towards slimming down muscle, as any unbalanced protein eaten (those not containing the right ratios of the amino acids that we can't synthesize) are going to encourage muscle atrophy. But I'm not sure that would be considered healthy by most doctors or dieticians. "Lean Meat" and Dairy are what most scientists have recommended to me (too bad I will die if I eat dairy; literally).

Hi, with all due respect, I was not making a blanket statement. This is based on research that has been done numerous times. Watch the documentary "Forks Over Knives", or visit the website for all the data.

The Wikipedia article sums it up like this:

"Through an examination of the careers of American physician Caldwell Esselstyn and professor of nutritional biochemistry T. Colin Campbell, Forks Over Knives suggests that 'most, if not all, of the degenerative diseases that afflict us can be controlled, or even reversed, by rejecting our present menu of animal-based and processed foods.'"

Caldwell Esselstyn was President Bill Clinton's doctor when Clinton had his heart problem.

In the film they show a study where rats fed animal protein was induced cancer, and then when removed from the animal protein they went into remission. When it was reintroduced in their diet, the caner returned.

Animal fat consumption has been tied to prostate and colon cancer.

While its true that humans are omnivores, meat was never as big a part of our diet as it is now. Humans were hunters and gathers, but much of the food we ate was plant based. In the documentary they show several studies that showed as meat consumption rose in places like japan, so did cancer and heart disease. Meat was never as large a part of their diets. The same thing happened in Scandinavia during WWII. And look at all the obese people in the US? It's also processed foods.

There was also the "China Study", a book by T. Colin Campbell, Jacob Gould Schurman Professor Emeritus of Nutritional Biochemistry at Cornell University, and his son Thomas M. Campbell II, a physician. It examines the relationship between the consumption of animal products (including dairy) and a variety of chronic illnesses, such as coronary heart disease, diabetes, and cancers of the breast, prostate and bowel.

The study examined mortality rates from 48 forms of cancer and other chronic diseases from 1973 to 1975 in 65 counties in China; the data was correlated with 1983–84 dietary surveys and bloodwork from 6,500 people, 100 from each county. The study concluded that counties with a high consumption of animal-based foods in 1983–84 were more likely to have had higher death rates from "Western" diseases as of 1973–75, while the opposite was true for counties that ate more plant foods in 1983–84. The study was conducted in those counties because they had genetically similar populations that tended, over generations, to live in the same way in the same place, and eat diets specific to those regions.

There are many more data sets on this. Sure, eat meat, but not every day, and for crying out loud, not at McDonalds! One a week is all you need. I eat fish once a week, and maybe an egg.

Also, cattle farming for beef is a huge polluter of the planet because the cattle are not raised as they would have been with smaller herds. They produce huge amounts of waste too.

I grew up eating meat like many people. I feel much better now that I don't, and I have lost all my extra weight without even trying. I've gotten so many compliments this week it made my head spin!

And there are many studies that will show completely different results. There are studies that show how organic meat is heeps better for you then commercial farm raised hormone filled junk meat they sell in the super markets. There are studies that show how much better wild meat is for you then farm raised store meat. There are studies that show how bad soy is for ones body and that is every worse for you the store bought meats. My dads side of the family are heavy meat eaters and are like 100 percent cancer fee. While my moms side eats way less meat and alot more veggies but have an insanely high cancer rate ( 8-9 out of 10 adults get it in there life time). Genetics plays alot more of a role when it comes to cancer then what ones eats or does not eat.

[Guest Raven Moon]

BTW, soy converts to estrogen in your body. Soy is certainly not as good for you as it's made out to be. I limit my intact on soy.

As far as the other studies, I'd like to see some citations. I think the ones above are pretty convincing. As for myself, I feel 100% better not eating any meat than when I did. I have more energy not trying to digest that, and I've also lost about 30 pounds. (but then I also eat the minimum amount of food needed. No snacking, no sweets… I miss ice cream but I'd rather be thin. So for me it's working. If someone needs to lose weight, they have to change your diet to a more healthy one.

If you look at our teeth, we are not carnivores. We have very rudimentary canine teeth, and much more grinding surfaces. Not at all like a dog or cat. Lots of animals, including horses, will eat meat, but it's not the main part of their diet. Another motivation for me is the moral side of it. I love other non human animals on this planet, and I don't need to eat them.

I agree 100% on the organic vs. farm food. Same with everything else out there. It's a shame that food that's good for you cost so much.