This Kinda Made Me Mad

[Guest Crossroads]

I read your main post, Ains, and didn't read any replies. I just had to reply to this.

This is something I'm always fussing about. Such as Gays aren't allowed to marry while over 50% of straights ARE allowed to divorce. Or when Angie and I tried to adopt, agencies could turn us down just because we're in a same-sex relationship, and yet that ghetto chick down the road with no job and just wanting a check is allowed to KEEP the child she doesn't want or love!

So, why is it that hundreds, thousands, or hundreds of thousands of people NEEDING surgeries have to pay out of pocket (many insurances don't pay for this...I'm still trying to figure out how to get mine to) and have to go through HECK to even be thought of as serious, and yet "normal" people can go out and get insane stuff done on themselves all the time? Such as fat people getting tummy-tucks before they've even TRIED to lose weight. And then a year later, they wonder why they aren't losing weight (it's because no one ever told them that PSYCHOLOGICALLY, they have to work towards it, even after the initial 50-100 lb weight loss).

Anyway, fuss fuss fuss.....you know.

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

If it was lawsuit, they'd fear one from the man with gynecomastia just as much from the FTM. This doesn't make sense to me.

To me the reason is squeamishness with the idea that someone wants to "change sex" (outwardly if anything). This squeamishness is shared by doctors, shrinks, the government, society in general, etc. People assume that sex is immutable, so when someone basically asks to change their endocrine system completely the other way, they think YOU are wrong, and not the "immutable sex" theory. It's apparently easier to defend their worldview against contrary evidence (such as us), than to allow their worldview to consider new evidence. Hence its bad science (good science considers new evidence).

I think the main fear about lawsuits with TS folks is that we'll change our minds. I don't know about MTF's, but it seems like I've fielded more than my share of "what if you change your mind" questions.

Of course, the "what if you change your mind" business all flows from what you've said, general squeamishness. They've all got it. Now, I didn't detect any of that from Dr. Garramone. If he was at all squeamish, he didn't let on.

[Guest Little Sara]

They don't need to look afraid or anything. Squeamishness only means you're going to "try to save all these people from themselves and make it your duty" or something equally stupid. It's not like we're schizophrenic, but some people obviously think we are.

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

They don't need to look afraid or anything. Squeamishness only means you're going to "try to save all these people from themselves and make it your duty" or something equally stupid. It's not like we're schizophrenic, but some people obviously think we are.

That's true. Dr. Garramone isn't like that, but the doctors at my school's clinic are like that times 100. They won't do anything that is remotely somewhat tangentially related to trans care. We've had email exchanges and all. The clinic director hates us and thinks we're crazy.

[Guest Jackson]

I think the main fear about lawsuits with TS folks is that we'll change our minds. I don't know about MTF's, but it seems like I've fielded more than my share of "what if you change your mind" questions.

That's interesting because not once has someone asked me that. Now that I think about it, it seems strange. I don't know. I just assume (perhaps incorrectly) that people figure I'm old enough (or educated enough or maybe just stupid enough) to not ask that question.

[Guest Cody_T]

That's interesting because not once has someone asked me that. Now that I think about it, it seems strange. I don't know. I just assume (perhaps incorrectly) that people figure I'm old enough (or educated enough or maybe just stupid enough) to not ask that question.

I'm sure there's an inverse relationship between age and fear that we're going to change our minds. Teenagers aren't trusted about *anything* they think, and kids less; even as you get into the adult years, you can find people who think you're too young. Intelligence could play into it as well, because intelligence tends to be an amazing tool in gaining respect, or at least so I've found. Also intelligence is sooo quickly mistaken for maturity (or maybe it's a different type of maturity that makes me laugh at fart jokes...), and percieved maturity is a big aspect of trust. Of course, I'm sure you're mature, Jackson... I was breaking into generalizations and kind of applying it to myself. So basically, other peoples' trust in our self diagnoses is what allows us to be taken seriously, and age, intelligence, and maturity affect that trust. To summarize. And of course, like any teenager knows, trust can be killed with something totally stupid and then takes years to rebuild. Which sucks.

[Guest amie]

I chose to abstain from posting on this right off cause I wanted to think about it a bit.

Well, sure enough, nothinz changed…I don’t have a problem with this and I’ll tell yu why.

If the guy wants to behave in an asinine manner let ‘eem do so. Hell, we need a few more court jesters out there, don’t we?

Come on, dontcha get a kick out of idiots like this on occasion? This guy is nothing more than someone like Steve O from Jackass, is he not?

There’s yet another reason I haven’t a problem with this: IT’S HIS BODY AND HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO WHATEVER THE HELL HE WANTS WITH IT!!!

Now, to be reasonable, I’ll point out that I don’t know about this guy’s dealio be it on the family thingee n’ all. Does he have kids, a wife, other people to think about, yu know?

What also aids in my indifference here is my particular position as a transsexual. Consider this, I’m not married and have no kids. I am 37 years old and have been in numerous relationships be it with both female and male.

I’ve allowed myself more than sufficient time for reflection and self-discovery and after such time feel even stronger about the fact I’d function much better as a female.

This is one of the primary reasons I’d feel such discontent with long-term therapy with a counselor to obtain a letter for my SRS.

To elaborate, IT’S MY BODY AND I SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO WHATEVER THE HELL I WANT WITH IT!!!

Quite obviously, this is a very touchy subject with me. I gotta tell yu, I honestly fear what I would do to a counselor that held me up from my goal even remotely close to what I feel is necessary.

But lemme turn this down to the simmer range and express to yu that I rilly respect your position as much as I can, Stranded. I feel your frustration. The fact is, we’re dealin’ with a system that some of us should have to deal with less than some others.

Be good and be good at it!

[Guest Cait]

I listen to a musical collective that features a singer who has had two sets of implants.

He has had them for years.

It appears he isn't trangendered but just eccentric.

Sort of insulting, yet...he has gone the extra mile. [hair removal, facial surgery]

It is Psychic TV 3 i'm talking about.

They have some good stuff.

Cait

[Guest Jackson]

I'm sure there's an inverse relationship between age and fear that we're going to change our minds. Teenagers aren't trusted about *anything* they think, and kids less; even as you get into the adult years, you can find people who think you're too young. Intelligence could play into it as well, because intelligence tends to be an amazing tool in gaining respect, or at least so I've found. Also intelligence is sooo quickly mistaken for maturity (or maybe it's a different type of maturity that makes me laugh at fart jokes...), and percieved maturity is a big aspect of trust. Of course, I'm sure you're mature, Jackson... I was breaking into generalizations and kind of applying it to myself. So basically, other peoples' trust in our self diagnoses is what allows us to be taken seriously, and age, intelligence, and maturity affect that trust. To summarize. And of course, like any teenager knows, trust can be killed with something totally stupid and then takes years to rebuild. Which sucks.

Actually once it was pointed out, I was surprised that no one has asked me about that. Probably it's more likely that someone did mention it to me once and my memory is just that bad.

I do like to think I'm mature; however, I'm kind of "stuck" at the mental age of nineteen so you never know. Maybe I just play "mature" well.

[Guest Sarinah]

Sorry to invade your thread boys but heres my 2 cents. I guess Im gonna hafto be the odd person out on this one and say, not only do I find it appauling that this man was able to get breast implants on a whim but that anyone can get body augmenting surgery on a whim. Honestly I think everyone should hafto go through some level of therapy discussing the issue before they are allowed to proceed. There are people out there who do not know whats good for them, and going through therapy forces people to think long and hard about what they are doing before they do it. Some people are unable to control their own compulsions and they need to be limited, and since we can differentiate those people from anyone else the rest of us should just hafto deal with going through the same safety process.

[Guest TBForLife]

Sorry to invade your thread boys but heres my 2 cents. I guess Im gonna hafto be the odd person out on this one and say, not only do I find it appauling that this man was able to get breast implants on a whim but that anyone can get body augmenting surgery on a whim. Honestly I think everyone should hafto go through some level of therapy discussing the issue before they are allowed to proceed. There are people out there who do not know whats good for them, and going through therapy forces people to think long and hard about what they are doing before they do it. Some people are unable to control their own compulsions and they need to be limited, and since we can differentiate those people from anyone else the rest of us should just hafto deal with going through the same safety process.

I totally disagree. I'm a heavy body modder and if someone told me that I could not get my collar bone spikes or my sub dermal forehead implants I'd have a bird on them.

I'm doing a lot of non gender related body modification just because I like the idea of having ridges, spikes and other 3D body art to compliment all my piercings and tattoos.

Our bodies are our own and we should be free to do what we like with them. Who says no? Say no and I'll go to Montreal, or Austin to find a surgeon who does body mods and get them anyway.

This is a personal choice for my body just like getting a tattoo. I want what I want and I'll get it.

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

I'm just going to reiterate and clarify my position on this.

1. I think people should be able to do whatever they want with their bodies. I don't condemn people for wanting to be different or any of that.

2. However, it is important to remember that one person's actions can have consequences for a lot of other people. The effects are often not instantaneous or obvious, but they are there. The degree of freedom we all enjoy now is awesome. The thing is that, if irresponsible people get surgeries and cause trouble for surgeons, more restrictions will be put in place. It will be harder and harder to get TS related surgeries and fewer surgeons will be willing to perform those surgeries.

3. Plastic surgery is an interesting case because it requires medical training, but oftentimes isn't actually a "health" related procedure, in the purest sense. I imagine that the reason why there isn't more screening for augmentative surgeries than there is now is because, in the end, a lot of it is about money.

[Guest Little Sara]

Some people are unable to control their own compulsions and they need to be limited

I disagree, I don't condone the restriction of liberty when it does not harm. And saying it might harm them indirectly, maybe, won't cut it.

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

I disagree, I don't condone the restriction of liberty when it does not harm. And saying it might harm them indirectly, maybe, won't cut it.

I bet Michael Jackson wishes someone had stopped him.

[Guest Little Sara]

I bet Michael Jackson wishes someone had stopped him.

Go and ask him, but even people who regret SRS (and not because of surgical results), they made the decision consciously, of their own accord, they were not pushed by people (on the contrary). They are only to blame themselves. When you take a decision, you should weight all the consequences, not think society should do that for you.

[Guest amie]

Go and ask him, but even people who regret SRS (and not because of surgical results), they made the decision consciously, of their own accord, they were not pushed by people (on the contrary). They are only to blame themselves. When you take a decision, you should weight all the consequences, not think society should do that for you.

Nice, Sara.

What ever happened to personal responsibility, huh?

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

Go and ask him, but even people who regret SRS (and not because of surgical results), they made the decision consciously, of their own accord, they were not pushed by people (on the contrary). They are only to blame themselves. When you take a decision, you should weight all the consequences, not think society should do that for you.

I was kinda just joking about that. Personal responsibility seems to be a thing of the past anymore. Governments and doctors are working overtime to "save us from ourselves". Of course, in reality, they are saving themselves from everyone. It's all about getting sued. All it takes is one or two crazies to go sue a doctor and it messes everything up for lots more people.

Nice, Sara.

What ever happened to personal responsibility, huh?

Ha! That's what I said. I just now read your post. Personal responsibility would reduce the number of lawsuits by like 100 fold.

[Guest amie]

I was kinda just joking about that. Personal responsibility seems to be a thing of the past anymore. Governments and doctors are working overtime to "save us from ourselves". Of course, in reality, they are saving themselves from everyone. It's all about getting sued. All it takes is one or two crazies to go sue a doctor and it messes everything up for lots more people.

Ha! That's what I said. I just now read your post. Personal responsibility would reduce the number of lawsuits by like 100 fold.

Oh, I'm withyu on that one.