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Bucket of ice cold water.


Guest Brenda Hailey

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Guest Brenda Hailey

As many of you know I am new here and just started on this journey of acceptance and coming out and being what I feel I truly am.

I have been searching all manner of info and websites trying to gain more insight into what the condition isthat I suffer. (transgender)

I have been looking for anything and everything about this trying to find a ray of light and positive hope out there somewhere,that can help identify and deal with this issue, of course I came upon Laura's Playground and feel this is a place that I have found many answers to life long questions I have had, not all of them but quite a few that I think really matter. I find the support and encouragement found here unsurpassed by anything or anyone else out there. I feel I have really come to terms with alot of the issues that I have have never known how to deal with. Inspired to do an serious introspective look at myself with all denial being set to the side,replaced with the "truth" about me.

Allowing myself to even think of or imagine all these concepts is a huge stride forward past denial and ignorance.

Then comes the "ice cold water" to splash over my entire body and send me into shock....

In my relentless pursuit of knowledge and research about transition,hormones, and surgeries I came across a website that is contradictory to everything I have learned here at LP and other venues.

The website in question is all about the regrets people have of going through transition,hormones and surgeries. Horror stories of people who came out, went through all the steps seemingly the right way lost all there was to lose had completed transition and realized it was all a huge mistake....I pretty much read the entire website and felt my warm fuzzy feeling of progress slip away right before my eyes. Talk about a buzz kill. I wish at this point I never saw the site ,but at the same time I am glad I did because now I have another piece of the entire puzzle that I never had before. In most cases with me anything about sexuality or gender I am a complete naive idiot for whatever reason I have never been blessed with basic knowledge of any of these things, so everything I learn is "the hard way" and in this instance I have learned everything about being transgender "the hard way" ,through mistakes,misery,suffering,and sheer accident.

After seeing that site I feel less sure and more confused than when I was still in denial........and it only took a few minutes of reading to question everything I was striving for.

I truly HATE having to deal with this,,,,,,but there is no other choice I have tried all there is to try to not deal with it,with zero positive results. I didnt ask for this.

I am damned either way. There is never going to be a clear path for me I will always have to live this screwed up life it will never go away. Realizing going back to my old way of life isnt an option anymore I already know it will never work and now realizing that moving forward in this new life actually might not be any better if not worse is a real heart wrenching place to be.

Some of this stuff not even a Gender Therapist can possibly know the answer to either....I sit here shaking my head asking why am I always the last person to know anything about myself?

Earlier today everything was fine I felt pretty good had some goals in mind that I think I could meet to move a little further in what I think is a positive direction,and try to feel better about what it is I am doing, and then bam, I get hit with some sort of validation for my worst fears coming true,about making the biggest mistake in my life about the biggest problem in my life. I made posts earlier today offering encouragement telling someone else to hold on and not give up, and here I am a few hours later completely deflated,thinking what am I doing?

It truly is a torturous,frustrating existence no matter what gender I think I am.

The only solace for me right now is that while in my mind I am wet,confused,freezing cold, frustrated,and doubting, the real physical me is in my favorite cami top and undies....God help me if this is all there is.

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Yea the ups and downs of transition can come fast and unexpected. Yes there are horror stories, but for every horror story is a success story. The fact that you are questioning yourself is a very good thing... you have to continue to dig deep, monitor your state of mind, and be conscientious of your mental and physical condition. I like to think that most of the horror stories happened because the people involved did not question themselves, they did not properly vet their desires. Sometimes our minds can trick us into believing something that isn't true (like the grass is greener on the other side) and then when they do realize it's wrong it's too late and those people want to cry foul. Some blame everyone and everything for *their mistake... they blame their therapists, their doctors, family, friends, etc but the true blame belongs to them. Maybe that sounds a bit "tough love" but I believe there is truth to it.

Transition *has to be something deeper... it's not just a "sex change". The goal is not to just become a member of the opposite sex. The goal is to dig deep and discover who you really are and then carefully mold yourself into that person. That may or may not require transition... but whatever it does require if you do the "leg work" of deep and continued introspection, wherever you end up and whoever you end up as will NOT be a mistake, and will NOT result in a horror story. Of course you should also work with a therapist so that there is an impartial voice of reason to call you out on any cognitive distortions you may have, that is very important.

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Guest April Kristie

Brenda, I am not into casual use of cliches but as I am somewhat a newbie to this transition path too, I feel that to truly grow in this intensely introspective situation, some rain has to fall baby! You need to know all sides to this path, balance the good n bad and then how it applies to you. Yes, a gender therapist can help, they can also refer you to a psychiatrist if needed. Take your time, let that horror story pass, get perspective of all this in your life, give it a day or two.you have a great at bunch of people here at LP, and we all wish the best for you, whatever that may be! Big HUGS!!

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..contradictory to everything I have learned here at LP and other venues

What exactly is contradictory? That transition isn't a cure all? That there are some that aren't satisfied or that after having "lost all there was to lose" the losses outweigh the benefits?

Thru the years I've seen lots of folks end up on the rocks due to chasing transition as some idealized solution or fantasy which will solve their problems. Particularly when they have put transition first regardless of what losses are involved. In my view losses must be balanced against benefits

...went through all the steps seemingly the right way lost all there was to lose had completed transition and realized it was all a huge mistake

I wonder what the "right way" is? Cause from what I observed only a small portion of those I seen go thru things in what I personally would consider the "right way".

A therapist can help a whole lot, but a therapist is not proof against error. I can't count the number of times folks have had significant issues that they haven't discussed with their therapist out of fear therapist would question them.

Of course there are all the people who think they don't need therapy, and use therapist as someone to check off hoops while basically doing all they could to avoid any real therapy.

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Guest Sarah Faith

I completely agree with Jodie here, many people who run into problems later on often transition for the wrong reasons, or jump into it with out giving it much thought. If the site you are talking about is the one I think you are talking about, that is why it exists to make us stop and think and examine what lies before us. I found that site about 6 months before I started HRT and it came to mind right around the time I had my appointment to see my doctor.. It bugged me and made me doubt my self much like what you are saying here. What it also did was make me stop and really examine my life and what lead me up to that point and if I was really really sure. Ultimately I came to the conclusion that this miserable feeling has haunted me since my earliest memories and really felt like I had very little to lose.

I think each person should go through this self evaluation, and they should do it often transition can lead to very permenant changes that require surgery to reverse or really can't be reversed. It's pretty heavy stuff and definitely worth some caution, but if you are sure you're sure. Only you can truly knowone way or the other.

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Guest Brenda Hailey

..contradictory to everything I have learned here at LP and other venues

What exactly is contradictory? That transition isn't a cure all? That there are some that aren't satisfied or that after having "lost all there was to lose"?

Thru the years I've seen lots of folks end up on the rocks due to chasing transition as some idealized solution or fantasy which will solve their problems. Particularly when they have put transition first regardless of what losses are involved. In my view losses must be balanced against benefits

...went through all the steps seemingly the right way lost all there was to lose had completed transition and realized it was all a huge mistake

I wonder what the "right way" is? Cause from what I observed only a small portion of those I seen go thru things in what I personally would consider the "right way".

A therapist can help a whole lot, but a therapist is not proof against error. I can't count the number of times folks have had significant issues that they haven't discussed with their therapist out of fear therapist would question them.

Of course there are all the people who think they don't need therapy, and use therapist as someone to check off hoops while basically doing all they could to avoid any real therapy.

Indeed the "right way" is completely subjective and bias to my own beliefs,which are confused suppositions at best, and yes I may be putting to much faith in my therapist to know all there is to know and have all the required answers for me to move forward without making any mistakes.

I am not one of those people who thinks I dont need therapy, I willfully sought therapy because I dont have a clue how to deal with all these issues, even the non gender issues.

Avoiding the truth in any part of my life at this point past or present is not a stumbling block, I invite ripping my life apart fully to expose and address any it. All I know is I need help and someone to talk to,no she is not proof against error but someone who isnt a screwed up,neurotic like myself is a much needed different perspective...

Checking off the hoops is not what I go there for, a fast track to more confusion later on is not my goal. I will gladly pay for more sessions to "not" rush into HRT or anything else for that matter, despite her already claiming I would certainly qualify.

I want to feel better about myself,I just dont know how much "better" there is to feel, or how to get where "there" is.

I saw another side of the coin I had not fully contemplated/realized in my mind yet and it scares me.

Being transgender has been elusive for me for 40 years there are still huge blind spots I cant see that surprise me when I do finally see them.

I know what my next session is going to revolve around.

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Guest Brenda Hailey

I thank everyone for the tough love and advice.

I am glad this happened for all the reasons everyone has given as well as a few of my own.

When this transgender door opened I knew NOTHING about what lay beyond, the mere fact I am searching for these answers is a huge milestone,in a life of ignorance and denial.

I am seeking and trying to learn about something I dont have any real answers to,only to find more and more questions.

I know I have found this amazing piece to the puzzle of my life that is "transgender" and how perfectly it fit so many things in my past,I just automatically assumed it would also fit my future. :-/

Finally knowing this is all "real" gives me hope that I am not just a freak,but wanting more than transition can provide is a serious consideration only I can truly know.....I get it.

A lifetime of misery has possibly led me to put to much hope and desire into accepting that being transgender can actually fix anything for me either way, I am stuck this way and there is no getting out of it.

Again thank you all for caring and listening.

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Guest lostflower

When I first came out to myself the most important question I asked was

What if I'm wrong? Can I live with the consequences of being in the wrong body basically forever?

I can, but if you can't live with possibility of being wrong you have no business transitioning in the first place.

The point of no return on the MTF path is when they are putting me under for GRS anytime before that I can go back with effort but I can go back, if I'm wrong the big consequences

And even if I am wrong, I'll be stuck with a va jay jay forever, but they look so much nicer anyway and I love my boobies far too much to ever want them gone so even if I am wrong, I'm doing what is right for me even though it's wrong

Transition isn't a place for uncertainty that you are trans or anyone that hasn't considered if they could be wrong and can live with it if they are.

Harsh I know, but it's true, I didn't need the GT giving me the devil's advocate approach I had already explored every doubt and uncertainty in a far deeper way than he ever could

Hannah
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  • Forum Moderator

One thing that helps me is to read the real scientific evidence and credible research.. Sites like that have been created by some groups of haters and do not reflect the community as a whole or even realty. There is an old blog about FTMs with some very nasty and twisted half truths that I read early in transition. There was just enough truth to make it a nightmare and extremely damaging. Some of those words I could still quote. There was just one purpose for that blog to harm FTMs. So I researched every allegation and tool the word of therapists and scientists rather than that of a disturbed hater who wished me harm. Sure there are people who fail at this ad end up angry and bitter. Happens with every medical conditio you can name. Where a patient could not follow through with treatment or blamed every problem in their life subsequent to it. Estimates vary but the rates I have read are from 1 to 3 percent of us regret transition. That is an incredibly small number. Our suicide rate plummets after we transition or treat this condition as our exact condition dictates, That is significant in a condition where not treating leads to the highest suicide rate.

We are not talking about a psychological condition here but a physical one and that needs to be taken into consideration. This is is damaging condition that over time tends to take a horrific toll. But I will admit that we are the survivors. Those with the strength to make it through difficult lives. Psychologically this physical condition takes a toll.Those who are too afraid to transition sometimes attack those who have. Or sometimes people have developed mental illnesses trying tio live with it that cause them to become very negative and damaging toward other TG. Others attack transition to justify their own inner demons. Being TS sadly does not preclude being transphobic. In some people it almost seems to entrench it and they act out their own self loathing in sites like the one you mentioned.For me it comes down to a simple question in a way. If you had another physical condition that had a death rate of 40% and there was a treatment that had a 97% success rate would you hesitate? No matter how hard the treatment might be? Some people do. my ex mother in law ultimately died of cancer because she choose not to make a change in her life that she was told would save her. It was her choice.One she adamantly defended almost till the end.

This is a very hard situation. Transition costs. And the price can be very high. But research indicates that for us the risks of not transitioning for TS who feel the drive is higher.It is sometimes between losing everything and having to put a new life together or dieing. That 40$ suicide rate is an estimate because most of the time the real reason isn't known or isn't revealed by those left behind.

My last advise is the same as the first. Don't take my advise or that of any other individual. Look at the research, not what someone says or reports but the actual research. Talk to your therapist and base your decision on the realities you find there and not advise or web sites based on someone else's agenda.

Our advise and experiences can be a guideline but we all have motives and motivation on some level and that always has to be considered.

Johnny

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Guest Brenda Hailey

Thanks Hanna and JJ for your words of wisdom.

I realize that nobody can know me and that I ultimately face the darkness alone regardless of what anyone else can ever say to me,for or against.

It is up to me to find that light if it even exists at all,and only I can take the steps to find out.

Being alone is not where I thought my new found hope was going to lead me once again ,but its true,nobody can do anything for me,it has to come from me or it isnt me.

Its not somebody elses obligation to figure me out and know whats best for me,its mine alone. I have always known this, I guess at times I get to optimistic and forget how cold and hash this world really is despite having a pocket full of hope and new found dreams.

It was silly to think I could find happiness following someone elses transgender footsteps directly or indirectly. Reading other peoples wonderful or not so wonderful life stories isnt going to change mine.

At least I know what it is I am dealing with now,weather or not I can really change is the real question.

I think I will just fade back to the reality of my daily life,and see what I can do for myself armed with all this new information I have been gathering,and see what happens.

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Guest LizMarie

If the web site is of Walt Heyer, he is a crackpot and the majority of his "testimonials" have been proven to be false. In addition, Mr. Heyer quotes scientific studies completely out of context. For example, he loves to harp on the fact that post-op suicide attempt rates are higher than the general population (4.5% versus 1.5%). What he never ever says is that pre-op suicide attempt rates are 41%. As one professional psychologist I know said, "When you have a therapy that reduces suicide attempts by 90% and you argue against that therapy, you're a quack." Mr. Heyer is a quack.

Having said that, transition is not a cure-all. Be sure you transition for the right reasons. If you can find solace and peace another way, consider that. But if you can't then you need to transition.

For me, I was up against the suicide wall (and not the first time either). I needed to either begin facing myself and living as I envisioned living or die. Now you tell me what I should have done? To all the "don't transition" people, including my eldest son who said he and everyone else would have been better off if I actually were dead, I can only say things that I can't repeat here at Laura's but I'm sure you can imagine my response.

Transition, for those that need it, is a god-send and a proven therapy that saves lives in the long run. Transition, for those that do not need it, can be a serious mistake. Just be sure you really need to transition.

Finally, quacks like Walt Heyer are dangerous to society.

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Guest Sarah Faith

If the web site is of Walt Heyer, he is a crackpot and the majority of his "testimonials" have been proven to be false. In addition, Mr. Heyer quotes scientific studies completely out of context. For example, he loves to harp on the fact that post-op suicide attempt rates are higher than the general population (4.5% versus 1.5%). What he never ever says is that pre-op suicide attempt rates are 41%. As one professional psychologist I know said, "When you have a therapy that reduces suicide attempts by 90% and you argue against that therapy, you're a quack." Mr. Heyer is a quack.

Having said that, transition is not a cure-all. Be sure you transition for the right reasons. If you can find solace and peace another way, consider that. But if you can't then you need to transition.

For me, I was up against the suicide wall (and not the first time either). I needed to either begin facing myself and living as I envisioned living or die. Now you tell me what I should have done? To all the "don't transition" people, including my eldest son who said he and everyone else would have been better off if I actually were dead, I can only say things that I can't repeat here at Laura's but I'm sure you can imagine my response.

Transition, for those that need it, is a god-send and a proven therapy that saves lives in the long run. Transition, for those that do not need it, can be a serious mistake. Just be sure you really need to transition.

Finally, quacks like Walt Heyer are dangerous to society.

Even Lynn Conway has a section of her page about SRS regret, so the page mentioned here may not have been written by a hater.

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...transition is not a cure-all. Be sure you transition for the right reasons. If you can find solace and peace another way, consider that. But if you can't then you need to transition.

Liz summed it up perfectly.

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Guest LizMarie

Even Lynn Conway has a section of her page about SRS regret, so the page mentioned here may not have been written by a hater.

Absolutely agreed, Sarah! But the incidence of regret is very low, not sweeping and most trans folk, as people like Heyer insist. My only point to Brenda is to deal with reputable professionals in this endeavor and you'll get useful honest answers. If you go to an "ex-trans" "pray the trans away" quack like Heyer, you'll get an agenda based on superstition and nonsense.

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Guest Melissa~

I have to say I'd never recommend transition to anyone, the problems are there, real and documentable. Therefore the only reason to transition is because one has to. Then it's a matter of seeking a selfishly optimum result, don't transition for anyone else.

As for other informational sites I visit a large variety of site from DIY, to feminists that despise mtfs. These are valuable information sites, it's rather important to understand the full picture good and bad.

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Guest Brenda Hailey

Liz ,you have a keen sense of intuition.

I thank you for being able to read through the lines and see what was at the root of this latest issue of mine.

My mind has been on information overload for quite some time now and coming across Mr Heyer's website kind of threw everything I have trying to affirm to myself into question.

His sight did not shake my fundamental desire to be who I am at all,I still feel perfectly comfortable wearing my clothes and being more of the woman I know I am, I feel good about it. In that I do not waiver.

It just brought up some thoughts I had not considered yet and it got me over thinking again. I suppose I was more shocked that I have got as far as I have trying to live this way ,without seriously considering all those things I could regret more in depth,before hitting the deep end of the pool.

Since coming to my acceptance of myself I have in many ways been overly excited at the possibilities of what "can be" vs "what actually is going to be."

I am a hopeless dreamer who finally found transgenderism and bolted through the door without more careful consideration.

My enthusiasm for the hope of somehow living a new and happy life in many ways gets in the way of more realistic and rational thought. I blame only my overwhelming desire to be free,for allowing my own ignorance to remain.

I am just starting and still dont know many of the other pitfalls that await me,I just want to be strong enough to deal with them as they come without wanting to run away at the first sign of danger or discomfort. That has been my go to response for 30 years so its difficult to overcome at times.

Your insight and your own struggles puts into perspective how easy I actually have it in many ways that others dont.

By the way this morning has turned out pretty good, I started "coming out" to one of my business associates/clients today and strengthened my resolve a little more despite my doubt and fear.

So Walt didnt really have as big an impact as I let him at first.

Brenda Hailey

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...and yes I may be putting to much faith in my therapist to know all there is to know and have all the required answers for me to move forward without making any mistakes.

When I said a therapist is no proof against error I wasn't questioning a therapist's expertise tho I suppose that is potential issue. Instead I was referring to all the ways one might not be entirely honest with their therapist and the fact that therapists don't make decisions of right or wrong. Unless one is demonstrating clear problem that would negate moving forward (such as showing signs they are gay with internalized homophobia) the therapist might raise tough questions but ultimately it is the client that decides.

I am not one of those people who thinks I dont need therapy, I willfully sought therapy because I dont have a clue how to deal with all these issues, even the non gender issues.

Avoiding the truth in any part of my life at this point past or present is not a stumbling block, I invite ripping my life apart fully to expose and address any it.

A sensible outlook

Sites that have cropped up by those who have had bad experiences. In part because support sites only give one side of the story with few exceptions and pretty universally deny any negative outcomes.

In support sites, as one would expect there are folks who advocate and push transition largely caught up in their own excitement (and frequently are early transition themselves) but when it comes to a mistake someone might make from such encouragement deny any responsibility.

I take the approach that people need to know the good and the bad, which normally isn't what people want to hear. There are plenty of folks that will tell them what they want however so I leave that to them.

Also, as I see it, it is in all our interests for people to find the right treatment and positive outcomes. That means don't put blinders on, don't think in black and white terms, don't chase an artificial goal. Because every time someone ends up off worse off it raises questions about validity of treatment and can start erode the positive steps that have been made.

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Guest Brenda Hailey

Even Lynn Conway has a section of her page about SRS regret, so the page mentioned here may not have been written by a hater.

I dont know who Lynn Conway is but I really dont think I need to go to anymore stories of regret to move forward in my journey.

I took in what Walt has said and it has not changed how I know I feel it just shook a little more sense into me as far as my own self introspection.

I am sure I could go to any trans regret sight and find something I could relate to out of fear without much difficulty,but I dont know how much more it would help.

I have had some time today to think about what I saw and it did not change who I am or want to be,it just scared the crap out of me for a while realizing how I somewhat overlooked the very real possibility of regret.

This morning Brenda was still smiling in the mirror,even though my thoughts were jumbled a bit.

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Another thing.

The claim that transition is the only treatment option. The transition or not transition dialog.

Every time someone talks of other options, people jump to the reparative therapy religious denial type stuff. I agree those aren't good options.

Therapists experienced with gender dysphoria know that their clients have individual needs and many find stability, a balance that doesn't involve gender role transition.

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Guest Brenda Hailey

Another thing.

The claim that transition is the only treatment option. The transition or not transition dialog.

Every time someone talks of other options, people jump to the reparative therapy religious denial type stuff. I agree those aren't good options.

Therapists experienced with gender dysphoria know that their clients have individual needs and many find stability, a balance that doesn't involve gender role transition.

You wont EVER catch me trying to repair what I know cant be fixed with religion.

Bible scripture and those who use it to condemn me have NO PLACE in my future whatsoever no matter how badly I screw it up...

I tried my own reparative therapy my entire life,it doesnt work either.....lol

I dislike religious hypocrisy, more than I dislike myself.

Thanks Drea for your well reasoned words.

Brenda Hailey.

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  • Forum Moderator

I have to say I'd never recommend transition to anyone, the problems are there, real and documentable. Therefore the only reason to transition is because one has to. Then it's a matter of seeking a selfishly optimum result, don't transition for anyone else.

As for other informational sites I visit a large variety of site from DIY, to feminists that despise mtfs. These are valuable information sites, it's rather important to understand the full picture good and bad.

I'm with Melissa on this, transition only because you have to, essentially a last resort to try and solve your GD. If you can at all exist in your current state with visits to the other side, do it. Transition can and will bring out the worst in others around you, it will test your problem solving skills to the utmost. The older you are the harder it gets. It can take you to some pretty dark places at times, but then again doing nothing about GD is pretty dark in it's self. If you head down this path, don't look back, never look back.

I enjoyed reading everyone's responses to you Brenda. You are getting a dose of reality from those that have been there.

Hugs

Cynthia -

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Guest Sarah Faith

I dont know who Lynn Conway is but I really dont think I need to go to anymore stories of regret to move forward in my journey.

I took in what Walt has said and it has not changed how I know I feel it just shook a little more sense into me as far as my own self introspection.

I am sure I could go to any trans regret sight and find something I could relate to out of fear without much difficulty,but I dont know how much more it would help.

I have had some time today to think about what I saw and it did not change who I am or want to be,it just scared the crap out of me for a while realizing how I somewhat overlooked the very real possibility of regret.

This morning Brenda was still smiling in the mirror,even though my thoughts were jumbled a bit.

I wasn't really suggesting that you do, I just think that it was important to clarify that not all websites with these stories are just bitter people trying to spread it around. It's important to understand and know that transition is not consequence free if you are jumping into it completely blind or for the wrong reasons. I've never really had that self realization moment where I finally admitted or discovered what was wrong with me, for me I thought I was a girl as a very small child until other kids at school kind of forced me to realize that no, physically I was not. For me this has been a lifelong certainty and even then I am glad that I read sites that made me stop and seriously question my motivations.

Like I said before Brenda, ultimately the only person who will really know what is best for you is you. The more you know about both good and bad outcomes the better informed your decisions can be.

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Another thing.

The claim that transition is the only treatment option. The transition or not transition dialog.

Every time someone talks of other options, people jump to the reparative therapy religious denial type stuff. I agree those aren't good options.

Therapists experienced with gender dysphoria know that their clients have individual needs and many find stability, a balance that doesn't involve gender role transition.

You wont EVER catch me trying to repair what I know cant be fixed with religion.

Bible scripture and those who use it to condemn me have NO PLACE in my future whatsoever no matter how badly I screw it up...

I tried my own reparative therapy my entire life,it doesnt work either.....lol

I dislike religious hypocrisy, more than I dislike myself.

Thanks Drea for your well reasoned words.

Brenda Hailey.

What I failed to make clear in that post is that the transition is the only option is faulty. That it is inaccurate because therapists know there are other options than gender role transition.

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Guest KimberlyF

How does one suffer from transgender? It's not a condition, but a category.

Transition or any medical intervention is of course not for everyone because every person in the TG umbrella does not need it.

The goal should be to get the right treatment to the right people and not make anyone feel better than or less than for following a different path.

As for suicide stats, once again from the biased National Center for Transgender Equality and the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force:

"High risk groups include visual non-conformers (44%) and those who are generally out about their transgender status (44%). Those who have medically transitioned (45%) and surgically transitioned (43%) have higher rates of attempted suicide than those who have not (34% and 39% respectively)."

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    • Lydia_R
      I'm on the ballot being mailed tomorrow for an open US Rep seat.  I have both an honorable discharge and an other than honorable discharge.  I told the Navy that I was smoking pot every day right after Y2K.  I told them that while I was in the Navy, I substituted alcohol for marijuana and that the alcohol was making me violently sick.  After 5+ years of that, I said enough is enough and I went back to smoking pot.  I got better and I felt like the quality of my work was improving.   I certainly wasn't the perfect military member, but I excelled at my job and earned a promotion in boot camp.  They drug tested our unit several times after I told them I was smoking pot and I may have never tested positive.  I was opening smoking pot in the Navy for 3 or 4 months before they decided to kick me out.  At my captain's mast, the captain tried to shame me by saying I looked bad in uniform and that I was a disgrace, but all my evaluations said that I looked great in uniform.  I took great pride in looking good in my dress blues and whites.  Sure, I had grown my hair out a little bit (you know, it's not like I became trans in my 50's all the sudden) and I was enjoying some green anodized eye glasses :)   I think that people get very emotional about these kinds of issues when they should be concentrating more on engineering things and work performance.  I think we should take the lead and talk about our professional lives more instead of focusing on this type of politics.  That's a great document and I saved the PDF to my hard drive.  I think we should have more respect for the production that China is doing instead of concentrating on raising a military defense against them.  I personally disliked the hazing rituals in the Navy and think our military would be better off with being more accepting and intelligent.  
    • Abigail Genevieve
      My snarky comment of the morning is that Trump may be the first president sworn into office from a jail cell.  He can't keep his mouth under control.  It's likely he may be serving time for contempt for violating gag orders in January if he keeps it up, and the judges are more than happy to slap fines and imprisonment on him.
    • Ashley0616
    • Abigail Genevieve
      For one thing, this is Rolling Stone, who is convinced that the right is evil and writes articles from that perspective.   For another, he did not call out for eradication.  His answer was lousy, I did not like it, it was ambiguous, but he denied being for eradication of transgender people.   I still don't know what transgenderism is, but I see it as distinct from transgender people.   Conservative TG people need to become politically active and actively dialog and engage with these people..  Dang it.
    • Vidanjali
      Here's some inspiration. Wheels within wheels.   
    • Lydia_R
      Yes, totally.  That's a great story about your math history @Vidanjali!  Wow!   People tend to forget or are not aware of grads instead of degrees and radians, but that is becoming a big deal to me in the idea of coding a trigonometric function.  If you set your calculator to grads and then do the sin of 33.33, it comes up with .4999, you know, pi/6.  The significance here is that by dividing pi/2 (radians) into 100 units (grads) instead of 90 units (degrees), you are now in a base 10 space.  And when we are dealing with decimals (in base 10), and trying to convert them back to ratios, then notating our angles in the base 10 system of gradients seems like it is the key to coding the trigonometric function.   Then again, this has all kind of been a revelation to me the last couple days.  It's fun to combine math with code and I'm looking forward to writing some algorithms around this.  My last job was coding software for a healthcare company and there was no math involved in that and that was a depressing part of that job.  The long hours of that job kind of created a spiritual backlog of wanting to do some math work and I think that energy is busting out right now.
    • Abigail Genevieve
      Went out to get the mail.  I was thinking that I only have dysphoria when I am dressed like a guy as I walked out there, looselimbed and feeling femme.   Get with the program, girl, says I. I am supposed to be dysphoric when I am wearing women's clothing, not the other way around.  In the past I have worn women's clothing like this and after a while said I guess I really don't have GD, switched to male clothing until I gave it up, miserable, and went back.   Dreaming of a nice skirt-suit set.  Looked at them on Amazon.  And a peasant skirt with a nice lacy top.  And a denim skirt, worn with tights, boots and a turtleneck.  A girl can dream.    
    • Vidanjali
      Yes, indeed. It's nice to think about. Calculus allows you to work with an infinitely-many-sided regular polygon which may as well be a circle.    I worked with such ideas within my master's thesis which was a history of the Jordan Curve Theorem. Basically, the theorem states that if you draw a circle on a piece of paper, that the circle separates the paper into two distinct regions - the interior of the circle and the exterior of the circle. Turns out it's not so straightforward to prove rigorously, especially considering all they had to work with at the time the theorem was stated was Euclidean geometry. It took generations and the development of new fields of mathematics before any correct proof was established.
    • Vidanjali
      Aw shucks :) I like your story and similar to you, I had dropped out of high school and was homeless before eventually applying for various aid which led me to taking classes as community college. I'd never completed a math class in high school, but turns out I'm good at it and loved it so much from the very first basic algebra class as community college that I decided I'd become a mathematics professor. And I did! I taught math at the higher ed level for 17 years before resigning due to disability.     True as long as the radius is 1. Else it's a multiple of .524 which is an approximation of pi/6. The entire circumference of the unit circle is 2pi. And one full rotation about the circle is 2pi radian which is equivalent to 360 degrees. 30 degrees is 1/12 of one full rotation. Divide 2pi by 12 and you get approximately .524.     You are correct. The circumference of any circle equals pi times the circle's diameter. Therefore one definition of pi is the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter.     Not totally sure what you mean. First note that irrational numbers have infinitely long nonrepeating expansion. And note that the measurements of the sides of right triangles and ratios of those numbers are in arbitrary units of length whereas angle measurements may be in degrees or radians. So, for example, if you ask a calculator what's tangent of 30, and its programmed for radian input, it'll read that as 30 radians which is about 1719 degrees or almost 5 complete rotations.
    • Abigail Genevieve
      If you are not familiar with Project 2025 you should be.  If the Republicans win in November it is very likely to be implemented.  Thanks @MaeBe for bringing this to my attention.   https://static.project2025.org/2025_MandateForLeadership_CHAPTER-04.pdf   "Reverse policies that allow transgender individuals to serve in the military. Gender dysphoria is incompatible with the demands of military service,"   Therefore it is reasonable to ask our veterans here whether they received an honorable discharge, whether they received medals of commendation, etc., that would serve to show that the second statement is simply not true.   Let's document.  We have a number of veterans here.   Yeah, I am nosy.  They would maintain ya'll got bad conduct discharges for conduct unbecoming.   I suspect we have here mostly honorable discharges, perhaps medals for valor, combat ribbons, etc.   This is information that might be used to refute the quote, so it would be good if you stood up and were recognized, for your service to this country and your courage in coming forward here and being recognized. 
    • Lydia_R
      Andy and I just had another discussion on this which turned to how pi is computed.  I kept on pressing for the measuring a big wheel method and he kept driving this idea home that measuring like that is inaccurate.  We agreed to disagree on that, but then he googled how pi was originally computed.  I have never looked this up because I tend to not want to get an answer out of a book like that because I enjoy the challenge of working things out on my own.   The answer he found said that Archimedes did it by crunching the math of a 96 side polygon.  And then I immediately thought, YES!  When I was on the streets of Seattle in January of 2004 and got interested in studying trigonometry, I went to the library and there as a little green book called Plane Trigonometry with a canvas cover and then next to it or nearby was a slightly bigger blue book with a canvas cover on Calculus.  I opened the calculus book and it said that calculus is the study of two different things.  One of them is the measurement of an irregular area through methods of exhaustion.  So that is definitely what Archimedes was doing there.  And it makes sense that you can do that and wind up with an answer that it is within the range which you can call the tolerance.   I got interested in coding the math of a pinball machine in 2013, so I thought about it for a few minutes and decided that I needed to know the intersection of two lines.  So I Googled that and it came back with a small linear algebra equation which I was then able to code into a computer pinball machine in about 300 hours.  The idea of this type of collision detection is that there are only points and the lines between them.  There are no true curves in the game.  I was using this process of taking an artist's drawing of a maze and using Adobe Illustrator to turn it into vector graphics (SVG) and then they had some special function that would reduce all the curves in the SVG data to a series of straight lines.  Then I would consume the SVG data in my code and display the raster image.  It worked great and of course I was using a polygon for the ball.   With that huge amount of vector data, I wound up having to write special code to break that vector data into buckets within an array so that the collision detection wasn't working on all the lines at the same time because that would just bog the computer down.  I had to write and inRange() function to determine what sector(s) the ball was in and then grab the vector data for what could possibly be a collision.  I would compile those buckets (array) at runtime when the maze was opened.   The dependency on Adobe Illustrator was the death of the project.  The conversion process was tedious and the artist wasn't up to doing that work.  I researched other code to do it and never got anything that worked.  I dated a transwoman last year who did engineering work for a machine vision company and that sparked some new ideas.  The subject of machine vision has been on my mind for 20 years, but I hadn't quite figured out how to start coding it.  Then I realized last year that the way to do it would be to make a QR code reader.  You could start out with just like a 4x4 QR code pattern.  You take an image of it.  Or, you know, I guess those registration points in the corner are important, but to start coding, you could start with a perfect image of a 4x4.  Then you would lay a theoretical grid on top of it.  Then you would iterate over the grid and find out whether the pixel dead center in each square is black or white.  Then you would look at all the pixels around it and then average them and compare them to the one pixel in the center.  If the average of the outer pixels matches the center pixel, then you have a good estimate going.  So it would be that sort of thing.   But then to actually extend that to interpret lines at any angle...  Well, that would be very challenging work.  It's all very interesting stuff and if I live long enough, I'd like to start working on that.  I'm 53yo and this is kind of a hobby at this point.  I did good with going from having absolutely nothing on the streets to making all this happen and buying a house 10 years after I got off the streets in 2014.  I've been able to pay for 100% of my gender out of pocket so far, so I get a kick out of the fact that writing math on paper on the streets allowed me to do that.  I've made just over $1 million in my life, so it's not like I got rich off of that at all.  Over the span of my 35 year career, I've averaged about $35,000/year.  I live an excellent life though and all I really care about is having good food and time to cook it.  And having some time to play some nice piano.   Anyway.  I put this in the story section.  It's an autobiographical math story.  I've written all kinds of stuff about my life, but I tend to draw it back to a math education lesson.  Perhaps that turns some people away.  I always wish that our politics would focus more on engineering and less on the social issues.  I think we really take engineering for granted in our modern societies.
    • Abigail Genevieve
      Hiya!  Welcome!
    • Mars Hiroshi
      Thank you very much! This helps. The binder is too big, but I'm not good at sewing TwT
    • RaineOnYourParade
      Normality keeps running away from me
    • Adrianna Danielle
      I oiled this one regularly.It was getting weak and quit finally this morning.Took the air tool fitting off and told the scrap metal guy that comes in to pick up the scrap he can have it
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