Curse Of The Fruitcake--

[VickySGV]

The friend was not TG, but has had a rocky 11 months of sobriety from alcohol, I am not her sponsor, and go to a different set of meetings than she does since she lives a ways a way from my stomping grounds but I have talked with her throughout the last 11 months at the coffee shop she works. She has also gone through the same Chemical Dependency Recovery Program at Kaiser HMO that I did 5+ years ago so we know some of the same staff there and gossip about them happily.

I saw her this morning at the coffee shop where she works, and as luck had it she had a couple of minutes to talk to me since I was on her station, and her other tables were empty for the time. She had been at a New Years party the evening before, and had been given a good sized chunk of Fruit Cake which she happily ate with no problem, and her host at the party had made sure she had plenty of Sparkling Cider which she also enjoys, and she had felt no urge to go for the bubbly that only one or two of the others were drinking in the other room.

As she was leaving the party, the other guest who had provided the Fruit Cake told her about how the cake had been made, which had included a pretty large quantity of booze. This morning she was worried that this would put her sobriety date back 11 months. Knowing fruit cakes as I do, some of them are darn near explosive with alcohol. I had to tell her that I do not know what the group conscience of her home group will be on it, but I know she is becoming very jealous of her sobriety and is looking very much forward to her 12 month chip, so I turn the question over to the jury here.

Just before Christmas I did have my moment of having to politely decline the gift of a box of chocolates, they had been Brandy filled with the liquid liquor, about 1/4 oz each!! The person giving me the gift did not know I was alcoholic to begin with, and was from a culture where the refusal of a gift is looked at differently. I had to assure her that I dearly loved her and her intentions, but there was a little bit of a hurt look on her face. Bummer!!

[Guest Jo-88]

Wow that's a toughy... technically yes her body violated the sobriety, but since she had no idea the cake had alcohol in it it's not as though she had anything to do with it. I would say she was tricked (accidentally or not) and therefore should not be held accountable for that. Not everyone knows that fruit cakes are made with alcohol, I didn't know until a few years ago when I saw an episode of "How It's Made" that happened to have a bit about fruitcakes. I don't know how obvious it is when you start to eat one though, I have never eaten fruit cake because they look disgusting to me.

Besides the fact that this bothers her so much means she takes her sobriety very seriously... and that is a good thing.

P.S. I have never had an alcohol problem so take my opinion with a grain of salt... But I have had substance issues in the past just not alcohol. If someone slipped some molly in my coffee one day I would not feel as though I failed... I would feel like I was drugged against my will.

[Guest Brenda Hailey]

Willfully eating a fruitcake in the first place is the real crime here....lol

But unknowingly eating an alcohol laced fruitcake is not a sobriety breaker in my book.

Some people drink the N/A beer with minute traces of alcohol in it to help overcome drinking the real stuff at times, and they still keep their dates dont they?

I think the context in which the act happened is very important here, and if she felt she was eating the cake because it had alcohol in it or not. Only she knows the answer to that one.

It really up to here if she accepts the chip or not.

I just went and looked for my one year chip on a shelf of mine it has a 1/4 inch of dust on it. (Ummm ya Brenda needs to clean.)

I got that thing over 15 years ago I cant bring myself to ever get rid of it, I have been sober ever since,and never went back for any more coins after that,but its a nice reminder of the hellish nightmare place I once lived. If only I knew then what I know now, I wouldnt have had to go through all that torture...*shakes head*

Give her the chip and tell her fruitcake is only for re-gifting not eating.

Brenda Hailey

[Guest Jo-88]

... I think the context in which the act happened is very important here, and if she felt she was eating the cake because it had alcohol in it or not. Only she knows the answer to that one.

It really up to here if she accepts the chip or not...

Good point Brenda, did she eat the cake knowing it had alcohol in it and thinking it wouldn't matter or was she duped? That's the make it or break it factor for me. If she knew, then she violated and no chip for her, if she didn't know then no she didn't violate and give the lady her hard earned chip!

[Guest Brenda Hailey]

... I think the context in which the act happened is very important here, and if she felt she was eating the cake because it had alcohol in it or not. Only she knows the answer to that one.

It really up to here if she accepts the chip or not...

Good point Brenda, did she eat the cake knowing it had alcohol in it and thinking it wouldn't matter or was she duped? That's the make it or break it factor for me. If she knew, then she violated and no chip for her, if she didn't know then no she didn't violate and give the lady her hard earned chip!

Ya Jodie pretty cut and dry really, honesty will win in the end. She knows in her heart how it all really went down and if she deserves the chip or not. Taking the chip with guilt will almost insure she will need another one year chip later on.

[Guest Tamar]

Just a little confused,here. Doesn't the alcohol cook out of the cake? Leaving only flavour? I could be wrong..

[VickySGV]

Just a little confused,here. Doesn't the alcohol cook out of the cake? Leaving only flavour? I could be wrong..

Some are made that way and are essentially alcohol free, others are soaked in the booze after they are baked which I think was the case here. The booze treatment is over a period of months and I would not know chemically how that works. All I know is that I have a worried friend, and this sort of thing is a bear trap that comes up at holidays and people who party hardy at this time of year. I am hoping to have some responses from our actual AA crowd, but they may need to make it a topic of discussion at their meetings before answering.

[Guest Brenda Hailey]

Some are made that way and are essentially alcohol free, others are soaked in the booze after they are baked which I think was the case here. The booze treatment is over a period of months and I would not know chemically how that works. All I know is that I have a worried friend, and this sort of thing is a bear trap that comes up at holidays and people who party hardy at this time of year. I am hoping to have some responses from our actual AA crowd, but they may need to make it a topic of discussion at their meetings before answering.

Really all one has do do is ask her if she ate the cake knowing it was soaked in alcohol or not....I am pretty darn sure any one of us could try the "later soaked in booze version" of the cake and realize it is soaked in booze upon the very first bite....essentially voiding the chip upon the second bite. Not to mention I am sure I could smell a soaked cake and question weather to eat it or not before the first bite.

The other version of the cake with the booze cooked out not so easy to tell I guess.

The answer lays with HER not the subjective reasoning of the group who did not indulge the cake themselves,she is the one who knows what kind of cake it was when it went into her mouth,and if she knew she was eating something wrong or not.

Is she asking for forgiveness for eating a spiked cake,to receive the chip, or is she asking if a dull cake with no booze was wrong to eat,and still get the chip?

Dull cake + ignorance = chip

Soaked cake + willingness = no chip

Either way I am thankful I dont like fruitcake, kind of a silly way to lose your date. :-/

Still not the end of the world her new date can be the start of the new year every year....

My date is in 7 more days Jan/9/1998 the new year and how many years sober I have will already be forgotten by then.

[Charlize]

I have to agree that it is up to her home group. She should be honest there as she was with you (Vicky). Honesty is the most important thing. That also pertains to her reasons for eating the fruitcake. I must admit that the idea of eating enough fruitcake to get high is sickening even if it was recently soaked. I think much of the alcohol evaporates is a fairly short time if exposed to the air. I have used mouthwash that has a much higher alcohol content and do not consider it a problem. This is true even though i know many who drank large quantities of mouthwash to get high because their food stamps could be used to purchase it. My purpose is health of my gums or preparation for some dental work like an implant i hd recently.

I'm glad she was open and honest. It obviously bothers her. I would if she was my friend try to get her to be honest but keep her date as it stands and be vigilant in the future.

Hugs,

Charlie

[JJ]

Since I like to cook with sherry and other alcohols I always thought that it cooked away. My step son is a drug abuse counselor and told my daughter it doesn't - I looked it up and he was right. Some evaporates but the majority stays.

I would also question not realizing it was there. Maybe-but I happen to be one of those rare people who love fruitcake and have consumed a lot of it from many sources over the years. I can tell from the first whiff much less the first bite when it has alcohol. I could see if the alcohols used were the flavorless variety maybe but every one I ever had was soaked in an alcohol with a strong and unmistakable flavor.

Maybe the woman is fooling herself. Not an uncommon human trait-especially when it is something important to us and tied to our feelings of self worth as this could well be..

Johnny

[Michelle 2010]

Fruitcake= rum cake with a little fruit the way I remember it

Honestly tho, I wouldn't recommend changing sobriety date for an honest mistake. It is important to remember that mouthwash, many french and Italian dishes and other things have alcohol and they are not things to be taken lightly. I use alcohol free mouthwash, and don't eat Marsala dishes, or any other booze/wine laced cookery. Just not a smart thing to do. The downside potential of "getting away with it" is too great... Its a slippery slope from rum fruitcake to Captain Morgan....

Michelle

[VickySGV]

You will notice that I did refuse brandy candy at the small risk of hurt feelings, even though my mouth was watering!! I have been blindsided a time or two over the years, and luckily have not developed the "maybe I can" from those instances where I did realize too late that stuff was real booze laden instead of sugar flavored. When I relapsed, it was not because I slid down the hillside, I jumped off the damn cliff wanting to hit bottom and go splat. I will learn tomorrow morning what happened with my friend at her group. I am sure her birthday cake will not have liquor in it though.

[Guest]

We do the very best we can do. Yet there are so many products and dishes that have some form of alcohol in them that it is nearly impossible to forever stay totally alcohol free. She knows that happened, she needs to write about it, stay on the vangaurd of not going back out and work the program. I would never condem someone for issues beyond their control and it is probably a vauable lesson learned. Don't eat the fruit cake! I myself have been fruit cake free for over twenty years. I don't go to FA meetings and I never got a chip or medallion. Giggle.That's my vote as a home group member here. Hug. JodyAnn