Information on Non-Transition Treatments

[Guest KimberlyF]

I think the NIH position, which has been restated by many people here is pretty accurate.

"Treatment options for patients with gender identity at variance with physical appearance can be evaluated in the order of extent of invasiveness."

The word "transsexual" is being watered down over time, and was only mentioned in the past few posts. So, I'll ask again, is everyone with GD transsexual? Is everyone with gender issues Transsexual?

There is no binary according to many in the TG community. People ID on many places on this spectrum. And yet, transition is the only option for those with gender identity issues. Strange, that. Would it be effective on someone male born with a 60% male/40% female ID? Or is this an example where 'extent of invasiveness' comes in?

It's amazing that I have for years told people I am TS, and yet people continued to tell me that I'm really TG and fooling myself or hurting myself, but when studies are needed on a topic where the OP doesn't mention TSism, a bunch of studies on TSs are mentioned. (The Dutch TG study was called 'An epidemio-logical and demographic study of transsexuals in The Netherlands' btw.). So is every TG also TS????

I'll hang up and wait for some answers

[Guest ashleynikole]

Good information and I sort of feel bad for almost igniting a flame war. Not my intention.

FWIW, my wife and I have decided that the best course of action for me (ultimately us and our marriage and family) is to step slowly through transition stages making 1 change at a time and see what kind of relief is brought out. I already dress around the house and go out in a part-time role and it only brings some relief.

If all goes as planned, I will be getting my HRT letter from my therapist tomorrow and will be visiting a doctor in the next few weeks.

I think terminology is VERY important to standardize so we all know what we mean when we communicate, but I don't think the outside world is there, where most of us trans people understand it (even I didn't understand it before I was forced to research my own feelings). So IMO, TGs are not TSs, I'm with those that believe TS is a subset of TG, just like male or female is a subset of human. It is a more specific set of a larger group. I tend to say I'm TG because, to me, it's accurate and TS having the word "sex" in it tends to be taboo where I'm from. But, then again, I'm not a scientist so don't quote me on it...lol.

[Guest Nicodeme]

you're either transgender OR in denial.

that came off as pretty needlessly rude.

[Drea]

FWIW, my wife and I have decided that the best course of action for me (ultimately us and our marriage and family) is to step slowly through transition stages making 1 change at a time and see what kind of relief is brought out.

Sounds like a sensible approach Ashley. A step at a time and find what is right and where you lead. This basically conforms to what the professionals prefer one does, but there are plenty that sets transition and/or SRS itself as a goal.

Sadly to say, and this has nothing to do with you Ashley, such a discussion has predictably diverged into a defense/justification of transition even though effectiveness of such was never challenged for those who need. The concept that some might not need to transition I suppose is threatening even though the evidence is clear that there are lots of folks who have found sufficient relief without transitioning.

Perhaps I did have some prejudicial characterization in stating that transition means to live at some degree in the opposite sex. That was my bad as I should have said that transition encompasses living your life in some other role other than the gender (and societal roles) you were born with.

-I don't have any disagreement with you here.

-Does seeking therapy from a therapist, with a gender therapist equate as transition?

-Does going on hormones but not changing gender roles at all equate to transition?

-Does coming out to your family and friends but not changing gender roles or even living part time equate to transition?

-Would having SRS but not changing social role at all equate to transition?

I wouldn't classify any of those situations as transition. Surgery is pretty radical and most who do have surgery do change social roles too, but not all have.

And then there are some less clear...

-Does living in one's house in ones preferred role but never outside equate to transition?

-Does living in one gender role personally but work in other gender role equal transition?

-Does living in preferred gender role full time including work but no legal changes, no hormones, no surgery equal transition?

-Does living in preferred gender role, not having surgery, not taking hormones, but getting legal changes done equate to transition?

Other than the first one that I could see going either way, the rest in the second list here I describe quite reasonably can be argued as transition because it does involve a change in gender role. And certainly in most instances folks going to these degrees would typically be taking hormones and such.

Like you said Ashley, I think terminology is important. Transition becomes meaningless when it can mean anything even when it doesn't involve even a part time role or presentation change. I know my therapist (a Gender Therapist for those who like to count such things) would never call having surgery or hormones "transition". How useful is a world when it can mean just coming out to a few people or just some therapy on one hand then on the other hand it means therapy, coming out to all family, friends, co workers, going on hormones, living full time in new gender role, legal changes, FFS and SRS.

I really think stretching transition to encompass anything came about as transition has gotten stretched from being a treatment for intense transsexuals beyond transsexuals to the wider transgender community.

I don't think anything I have said here conflicts with WPATH nor what my therapist expressed as treatment options and ways my therapist expressed her clients found relief.

It is of course easy for me to draw distinctions since I am not transitioning. I don't have the emotional attachment some have. I don't see anything negative but there are folks who would label me transphobic or have internalized transphobia for suggesting transition isn't the only option and that not all transsexuals (sure there are many that do) nor transgender folks need to transition. I am just not into the one solution fits all business.

[Guest So-kool]

As for me, I am seeking a Cure. I have been doing "management" of my urges for many years now. Basically I try to hold off on the next "step" as long as I can and then the anxiety becomes un-bearable.! I have taken many steps to help calm the beast and now I am so far down the road that physically there is not much which resembles my man side any longer.

It appears that with every step I take ( dressing,shaving,hrt,electrolysis,etc.) it calms the beast but only for a little while. Eventually she comes back. sometimes wanting more. The longer I try to deny her or ignore her, she ups the ante. The worst part is, once I give her a good outing she is calmed and leaves me alone for a bit. At which time my male side has full reign. (usually no more than a week after an outing) Well even though she is asleep right now due to a recent outing, I am now looking at my male self in the mirror and saying " what the hell are you doing to yourself?!!" I expect many are familiar with this feeling. it is usually the moments before a good PURGE! Toss out the makeup, clothes and everything female. ( I stopped actually following through with taking action on that part. It didn't help subdue anything and just made thing cost more) but I am also wondering now if that is what the disphoria may be like if I were to just go AS far as POSSIBLE ! lets say I go full time complete with SRS and any and all other transformation measures I could imagine... NOW WHAT ? AM I going to be stuck with "My GOD! what have I done! " the rest of my life? I just want it to STOP ! GO AWAY! LEAVE ME ALONE ! And Now in my recent moment of so called "purge" I am thinking about cutting my natural hair that I have been growing for about a year now ! Im thinking: "Dammit. I'm gonna quit shaving my body and quit plucking eyebrows and all that other stuff.! This has gone on long enough! but I know there will be a big price to pay when she returns. (most likely tremendous anxiety and overwhelming my thought process in everyday life.)

I had hoped I suppose that Transition would be the FINAL Cure for me but Now im not so sure even THAT would give me peace within myself.

So with that in consideration, Wouldn't it just be better to live in a male role a spare my family all the pain that is certain to come shortly.? I can NOT keep going on as 2 separate rolls!

At this point My wife and I are desperate to have my male side back and I I could somehow even Curb the urges to like what they were 20 years ago, that would be more tolerable ( back then all I had to do was maybe put on a little face makeup in the bathroom for about an hour or so and then jump into the shower to clean up and she stayed away for at least a month and usually up the 3 months. ! AAhh those were the days. Apparently not able to be anywhere near that now. But I suppose I fear that even if She is allowed to live even a little, she will continue to want and want.! UGH. I would definitely consider myself as transitioning ! From where I was to where I am certainly was a lot of transitions.

Is this Compulsion? because I have a release after the urge is met ? What would be the treatment of compulsion?

[Guest Leah1026]

The only proven treatment is transition.

Not according to the WPATH people. SOC7:

"An important task of mental health professionals is to educate clients regarding the diversity of gender identities and expressions and the various options available to alleviate gender dysphoria. Mental health professionals then may facilitate a process (or refer elsewhere) in which clients explore these various options, with the goals of finding a comfortable gender role and expression and becoming prepared to make a fully informed decision about available medical interventions, if needed. "

The SOC mentions a few things that can be helpful-much depends on the severity of ones Dysphoria.

Yes, there are alternatives, but for a transsexual person the only treatment that will dramatically improve things, not just take the edge off, is transition. And the question was posted by a transsexual person, not some other trans category. That's one problem with the new SOC, they attempt to cover everyone instead of just transsexual people like they used to.

[JJ]

People are incredibly diverse and complex and as we all know there is a wide spectrum. From the information I have read over the years I would agree a binary transsexual has to transition to completely find peace -our brains are constantly telling us we are wrong otherwise and we trying to socialize against the grain of how we think and process according to the latest scientific data. Men and women think very differently biologically and not just from socialization

However transition is very hard and very challenging. Some people just can't handle social transition. Most of us have become masters of self deception and denial as we struggle with this through our lives and as a result sometimes people who cannot transition become very emotionally invested in believing that it is not necessary. Therefore all the hot button issues.. Maybe that is the only way they can cope. They are really using all that verbage to keep convincing themselves of what they must believe

In other cases people are not actually binary or have issues that make dealing with GD effectively virtually impossible. Given the fact that GD can mimic many psychological problems the situation becomes incredibly challenging and complex. Only a therapist can actually tell someone they should transition.

That said I will cheer on those in the process because it takes a great committment and effort and each step is a milestone victory that often can be celebrated only here. I will also listen and commiserate with those who are unable to take those steps. We each have to decide. The one thing I won't really support is not transitioning for the children's sake because my background is in working with families and I know that the stress and depression that results as well as the secret keeping is far, far worse than any social results from transition. Children are incredibly resiliant when they have a stable and adjusted parent. They pay lifelong when they do not.

Beyond that each of us has the right to decide for ourselves -and to decide how we feel about it. I am pro tranasition-no bones about it-with the caveat that it be done slowly and carefully with therapy. I believe that it is the only way a binary transsexual can be happy-I lived a long life and had ways to bring myself enjoyment and times of joy and happiness but fundamentally was not-could not be-happy. My brain would not let me be, though I displaced that pain and stress into many other things. Because of my journey and experiences I believe for me-and probably for many -it was the only answer. I respect that others may feel differently and respect that as well as their right to say so-as long as they respect my rights and feelings as well

Johnny

[Guest KimberlyF]

The only proven treatment is transition.

Not according to the WPATH people. SOC7:

"An important task of mental health professionals is to educate clients regarding the diversity of gender identities and expressions and the various options available to alleviate gender dysphoria. Mental health professionals then may facilitate a process (or refer elsewhere) in which clients explore these various options, with the goals of finding a comfortable gender role and expression and becoming prepared to make a fully informed decision about available medical interventions, if needed. "

The SOC mentions a few things that can be helpful-much depends on the severity of ones Dysphoria.

Yes, there are alternatives, but for a transsexual person the only treatment that will dramatically improve things, not just take the edge off, is transition. And the question was posted by a transsexual person, not some other trans category. That's one problem with the new SOC, they attempt to cover everyone instead of just transsexual people like they used to.

Well, how do you define transition, gender dysphoria, transgender and transsexual? Most people who transition these days seem to ID as TG from what I've experienced.

[Guest ashleynikole]

Well, how do you define transition, gender dysphoria, transgender and transsexual? Most people who transition these days seem to ID as TG from what I've experienced.

I know this question wasn't pointed at me, but I'll weigh in since I've come a long way from when I posted the original question and I've learned alot looking at the issue as a whole.

To me...

Transition is the movement from one place to another that is not temporary. To the context of this conversation, in my opinion, transition can mean the smallest change to the largest or most complex change. Transition could consist of simply going from a masculine/feminine wardrobe to an androgynous one. Transition can mean full binary change with every surgery known to man. Transition can also mean anything in between (social only, legal only, body only, etc). Anything that causes movement from one place to another that is not temporary (ie occasional crossdresser would not be transitioning). Using this definition if Phil Robertson moved from his current self to looking and acting more like Michael Buble, then that would be a transition of sorts and that is how I define it in my head.

Gender dysphoria is a condition that happens when a person is discontent or discomforted by the biological sex they were born as and/or the roles that society places on that person. The being discontent is the key part because if you're happy having a female brain and a male body, then you would not have discontent and thus no dysphoria. For some that dysphoria can come in just social, just bodily, just expression, or any combination of the above. Mine personally is around bodily for the most part but some social and some expression. Since I've stopped caring what others think and just be me and like what i like, I've found my expression dysphoria has pretty much gone away. However, I still can't look at myself in the mirror and cover myself when feasible so I'm not reminded anymore than I have to be about my body. If it wasn't a slow path, i'd be changing myself tomorrow because I'm that confident in who I need to be.

Transgender to me covers a whole host of things but I think in looking at the words trans meaning across and gender being the reference to the mind and how we describe the 2 extremes of the spectrum (male and female), I see this being a sufficient label for anyone who is not completely 100% binary. IMO, I think way more people are transgender than they know. They just don't experience dysphoria and they have no desire to pursue a full on expression or identity of it. Expressionism is the largest part of this and it comes in a variety of ways across the TG spectrum from crossdressers to fetishites (is that a word?) to transsexuals.

Transsexuals to me are people who are across sexes. This would include MTF, FTM and Intersex in my mind. I think that most (if not all) in this category experience dysphoria to a degree enough to do something about it. This is where I sit because I am in transition across the biological sex spectrum from male to female. I am transgender because my gender is across the spectrum from my biology, and at the same time I am moving my biology across the spectrum to line up with my gender (my brain).

I think where TG and TS get confused is that the term used to be TS but that got such a bad connotation that the movement decided to use a different word that was less threatening. Politicians and society (especially groups who want to get a message or point across) do it all the time with vocabulary. I've known most of my life of the word transsexual but it was always associated with freaky sex addicted people who changed their bodies for that purpose so I never thought in a million years I was that person. I think using TG as a substitute has been softer on people.

In my mind, transition meant some kind of change, while non-transition means you don't change anything physically, socially or expressionally, you simply learn how to cope (be it with therapy, counseling, prayer, alcohol, etc) with the fact that you were born across genders/sexes and move on trying to live your life as best as possible.

That's just my 2 cents though and how I make sense of my new found world and why I have chosen to say that transition is my path of choice.

God bless

Ashley

[Guest Leah1026]

The only proven treatment is transition.

Not according to the WPATH people. SOC7:

"An important task of mental health professionals is to educate clients regarding the diversity of gender identities and expressions and the various options available to alleviate gender dysphoria. Mental health professionals then may facilitate a process (or refer elsewhere) in which clients explore these various options, with the goals of finding a comfortable gender role and expression and becoming prepared to make a fully informed decision about available medical interventions, if needed. "

The SOC mentions a few things that can be helpful-much depends on the severity of ones Dysphoria.

Yes, there are alternatives, but for a transsexual person the only treatment that will dramatically improve things, not just take the edge off, is transition. And the question was posted by a transsexual person, not some other trans category. That's one problem with the new SOC, they attempt to cover everyone instead of just transsexual people like they used to.

Well, how do you define transition, gender dysphoria, transgender and transsexual? Most people who transition these days seem to ID as TG from what I've experienced.

I want to apologize. I shouldn't have posted that yesterday. I didn't realize I had already replied to that post before. I tried writing the mods and reporting my own post and yet it's still there.

I'm not going to argue this point any further except to say this is supposed to be the transsexual forum and yet when I point that out that transitioning is the only effective treatment for transsexualism (which is true) I draw flack. I can only assume that the people throwing this flack aren't transsexual people. And this is the biggest problem with blended forums (everything under the transgender umbrella). As far as identiofying as TG. That's because many transsexual people have shame issues involving the word "transssexual". "Transsexual" is the proper term. Further I don't identify as "transsexual", I identify as female. And I think that's the biggest difference between transsexual people and othe transgender people. Transsexualism is a medical condition, not an identity.

And with that I'll get back to my life.

[KathrynJulia]

Hi Ashley

For me, a transsexual is a person who has such strong dysphoria over their bodies gender that they wish to alter those areas that are either female or male secondary sexual parts through surgery. As I am a month from GRS surgery, I identify myself as a transsexual lesbian woman. I'm transsexual because I have wanted that male part that is south of my navel removed and I want a woman's vaginal created. That is my final step to removing the one thing that I detest and it causes me pain because it is there.

After my surgery is over, I will be both a woman and a lesbian. A lesbian because my orientation is I desire a sexual relationship with another woman. I will lose the transsexual lable because I will no longer need parts of my body fixed. Because everything that was male has either been removed or changed to the best of the surgical skill of my surgeons. Will I retain certain male traits to my body? Certainly. There are things that cannot be changed like the size of my bones and the shaping of my pelvis. Those are permanent at this point. Maybe someday they will be able to change it. Medical science may even give us the ability to become pregnant and carry a baby to term. For me, I will be complete in another month and I will be able to live contently as a woman the rest of my life. I have known that I was a girl and later a woman since I was 5 years old. Kathy

[JJ]

For me a transsexual is someone who identifies as the opposite gender than that of their genitalia and assigned at birth.Because my bain is male I AM a man and that makes me a transsexual at least on the surface. It gets complicated since there is abundant evidence I am also intersexed and had revision surgery as an infant. I have not had reassigment surgery -probably will never be able to afford it but I have identified internally as a man all my life. I was transsexual then even before I knew the word for it.

I am a transsexual now and not ashamed of it but because of the myths and misconceptions with wich that word is so heavily freighted I only use the term transgender outside the community and that as seldom as possible. Once you say transsexual then you spend the rest of any conversation debunking rather than explaining who you are and why.

I DO have body dysphoria but beyond that I need to live as a man and look like a man regardless of the condition of my genitalia. I d ook and live male and dressed I can look in the mirror and see someone who is me.. Surgery is the icing on the cake-but as long as I am dressed I can look in the mirror and see someone I can live with as long as I am dressed. And living in society feels right -makes sense at last. There is a lot that is socalization but studies are increasingly confirming that there is also a large amount of behavior determined by brain configuration that differes greatly between men and women. I personally cannot understand how a binary transsexual couyld ever live happily or at peace without social transition because it would always feel cross grained. Your responses socially aare faked and not who you are when you are trying to live and function in the wrong gender. People who have had birth defects or accidents leanr to live with bodies that are no longer reflective of who they are and I think e can too when necessary-it's living the wrong role that becomes unbearable.

Bottom line though is there is much we just don't know. Research on us is in it's infancy and if you ask a dozen gender therapists questions you are likely to get a dozen different answers. So all I can go on is my experiences and training and my own life experiences.

Johnny

[Guest KimberlyF]

I DO have body dysphoria but beyond that I need to live as a man and look like a man regardless of the condition of my genitalia. I d ook and live male and dressed I can look in the mirror and see someone who is me.. Surgery is the icing on the cake-but as long as I am dressed I can look in the mirror and see someone I can live with as long as I am dressed. And living in society feels right -makes sense at last. There is a lot that is socalization but studies are increasingly confirming that there is also a large amount of behavior determined by brain configuration that differes greatly between men and women. I personally cannot understand how a binary transsexual couyld ever live happily or at peace without social transition because it would always feel cross grained. Your responses socially aare faked and not who you are when you are trying to live and function in the wrong gender.

Johnny

In the 80's how we understood things were transsexuals had surgeries and TVs didn't. Then TVs became CDs, then TGs, then the whole thing became an umbrella.

When people call surgery 'the icing on the cake' how is that not saying it's elective? The reason my insurance paid for it when it wasn't covered was because my doctors and therapist called the insurance company and wrote letters telling them it was a medical necessity. Not having it was having a direct measurable impact on my physical and mental health.

The world is full of people that don't think and act like me. I started to become happier as I worried less about what the world thinks about me, and more about what I think of me. I feel more like me with or without clothes on now and it is a calm that is amazing. There are just so many times that I walk around with a big dopey smile on my face for absolutely no reason.

If you have any questions, I would be happy to answer them for you. What social responses do you think are socially fake that I would have to deal with? What 'woman things' do you think I am limited from doing by not going FT tomorrow?