Trans Kids: Views From Those Opposed to Early Transition

[Carolyn Marie]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/transgender-kids-have-we-gone-too-far/article16897043/

Carolyn Marie

[gennee]

First of all, Ken Zucker is the last person I would consult about transgenderism, noting his anti-trans positions in the past. Second, children do know that they different as young as two years old. If they have the same feeling when they are six or seven, then there's a good chance they may be trans or gender variant.

This is difficult to ascertain because children grow physically and emotionally much during this time. I wouldn't rush to have surgery because there's so many things to consider here.

[Guest]

Ken Zucker, again! :banghead: :banghead:

Sorry, that was supposed to be "still" not "again".

[Guest Brenda Hailey]

So transgender kids are finally becoming able to come out and accept themselves at a young age........ good for them !

As stated in the article it seems that there are many more transgender kids out there than before,and that they have just sprung up out of nowhere because of the internet.....true in some sense, but the rest of us OLD trans people have still been here the whole time,,,,so its not a new phenomenon in many cases the possibility of being accepted by society so slim the closet was the only alternative for those of us born in the wild west days.

What study is more interesting in societies eyes the suicide rate for closeted trans people or the suicide rate for healthy living trans children?

If they want studies they can study why society refuses to accept transgenderism for what it is instead of what their prejudice dictates to us what it is.

Brenda

[Drea]

It isn't surprising that the take away is "Ken Zucker again" who does say some things I disagree with, when the interesting part comes after moving on to Alice Dreger bioethicists.

There are a few good points she makes.

Specifically about parents wanting answers disliking ambiguity.

How society these days is more likely to support pro-active parents than those who wait.

The fact that gender non-conformance is very fashionable these days. As I have said before trans is the new gay.

That evidence is that not all grow up to be trans and could there be harm in applying trans treatments (hormone blockers and hormones) to ones who would eventually grow out of it.

Many families with these kids have dysfunctional families to begin with. Just coincidence?

I personally think it is a very complex situation. The WPATH standards of care clearly reference that a majority of kids with expressing trans grow up to be non-trans. The majority end up being gay as I recall which isn't surprising since many gay folks are non-conforming. And while there was a significant percentage of trans like perhaps a quarter or a third, doesn't treating all as trans do a disservice to those who aren't?

There is also a tendency for many trans folk to use their experience and the fact that most trans knew when very young that anyone very young expressing certain behaviors must be trans. That sort of logic doesn't hold water.

Similarly is the denial that some, particularly those expressing such pre-puberty, some children do grow out of it.

For many years it was considered acceptable (and was the normal practice) for children born with ambiguous genitalia to be "assigned". That this was better for the child. Perhaps for some, or most even, it was, but there also have been many cases where they were assigned wrong. It now has come around and become more popular not to take such radical actions and allow them to make their choices.

There is no question the brain goes thru quite significant changes in puberty just like ones body. This is often the point where trans issues tend to solidify for those trans but for some this may resolve the issue. When you have people like these http://product-boy.com/2011/08/06/select-population-of-females-turn-into-males-during-puberty-growing-male-genitalia/ who grow up as girls and suddenly change both body and mind at puberty to boys the idea that there is any certainty pre-puberty goes out the window and raises just what may be changed by blocking puberty or administering hormones during that time.

When I child is born with a male body is all rough and tumble like other boys in the family suddenly at age wants girls clothes hates their genitals, is that child trans? Or was that child a victim of sex abuse by a male perpetrator?

I also note the rate of trans identifying kids seems really high compared to adults...that is until one looks at the prevalence rates in adults and include CD. When one does that, considers that CD also had this going back to young and there you go. But there is this tendency to lump all trans kids into the transsexual category and think about treating them as if they were. Within the community however CD is becoming the new TS so maybe that isn't so surprising.

I think it is a tricky subject and we need to be cautious because just like adults who transition for the wrong reason, bad outcomes reduce the legitimacy of treatment for the rest and while adults one could blame the adult for their "choices", when it comes to kids it is another story and effect of bad outcomes will be 10 times worse.

I tended to like the line she mentions which is "do no harm" which to me means one has to balance the harm of taking wrong action with the harm of no action. I think non-conforming expression should be allowed and such kids figure out for themselves which means probably strong intervention to younger ones may not be warranted. For teens, particularly older teens the balance starts to tilt the other way.

[Ravin]

I do think we need to not be too quick to label children as "transgender" when what's meant by that is transsexual. Descriptions like "gender nonconforming" may be more appropriate.

"Wait and see" doesn't have to be accompanied by repressing the child's nonconforming behavior, or even social transition. It can be approached with acceptance and the attitude that most of the social trappings we hang on gender are cultural artifacts, and we can choose not to see it that way (i.e.pink and sparkles, dolls and makeup are for girls, while trucks, legos, blue, and boxers are for boys). A child can be allowed to be who they are without making assumptions about what that will mean years down the road.

I would be hesitant to use medical interventions with my child. There can be serious long term side effects and repercussions, and it should be approached cautiously. Honestly, I think the medical community knows that and is developing protocols accordingly.