Genital Surgery...

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora,

Just recently Lizzy[Elizabeth] asked the question of post operatives, so I now return the favour by asking the question of all you pre operatives…

Before the interrogation [oops I mean questions-questioning] I would like to mention a few things regarding ones ‘genitals’…

We all have them, some even have a ‘set’, I for example was born with a penis and testicles, a friend I know was born with a vagina –I saw myself as a female and he saw himself as a male…We also had the male/female characteristics that our natural hormones created - for example bone structure and body fat migration etc…

After a while on HRT we both developed the characteristics that suited our psycho-gender identities, my testicles shrunk and his clitoris grew [however he did have chest surgery which saved the hassle of tightly binding his breasts], both these bottom items of ours were safely ‘tucked’ away from prying eyes…I found contentment still having my genitals hanging around-that is they didn’t impact in any way on my living in society as a female and my friend’s genitals also didn’t impact on him living in society as a male[he happens to be a counsellor who visits the island where I live once a week]…However I did eventually end up having genital surgery ‘convenience-surgery’ I no longer need to tuck …

Now I realise that for some trans females, surgery means finally being able to have a normal sexual relationship with a male-look him in the eyes so to speak…However for you older ones for whom sex is no longer on the menu - that is a desire [i’m not saying that older people shouldn’t be having sex-for some, sex is still quite enjoyable] what is it that drives you to have full genital reassignment surgery?

Do you believe that by having surgery it will change your life’s predicament/circumstances, providing you with a better quality of life? Or nothing much will change, apart from a possible sense of feeling ‘whole’ - giving you a somewhat peace of mind?

Do you also feel that Real Life Experience is really necessary prior to surgery? Or just a time waster that puts unnecessary stress on what is already a stressful situation for some?

To show I'm not sexist... males and females are both 'equally' welcome to share their thoughts!... [Even the elusive post operatives can respond]

Metta Jendar:)

[Sally]

Good question Jendar,

For me initially sex had no part in my desire to , in my mind, complete the transition. I was married and had planned on staying with my wife, her plans did not include staying with me.

My main interest in have the surgical reconstruction was to remove the physical reminder of my life as a man, I have had to 'deal' with my genitals for 57 years and I would like to feel completely as a woman would, without the need of carefully hiding the unwanted baggage.

My therapist had warned me that I was 'wired' very female and that once on hormones my sexual orientation might begin to shift, well it didn't even take hormones - after my wife left I began to notice men in a new way, I now see them as attractive and would someday like to feel the warmth of an embrace and even go on to that level of intimacy that I was never able to achieve as a male.

I feel that for me going up to the surgery and not having it would be like climbing Mount Everest and stopping 50 feet from the summit and handing my camera to one of the Sherpas and saying, I'm going to sit here, would you mind snapping a few for me when you get up there?"

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest Naomi Stardust]

alas poor yoric

i knew him horatio

i think srs is for my peace of mind

but Ghandi said 'for peace to be real it must be unaffected by outside circumstances'

or something like that

i agree with Sally

why go so far just to stop right before your goal

i do not yet have a gender therapist

but i understand that the purpose of therapy has to be self acceptance and becoming well adjusted in life

that's likely to mean transitioning but transition is not going to be the specific purpose of therapy, at least not the first priority, (after getting a recommendation, the second therapist i see will have that purpose)

maybe HRT after therapy will be all that's needed for peace of mind

but i have trouble imagining (speaking for myself) presenting full time as female with that annoying little surprise hidden between my legs

it seems somehow dishonest also i don't want to deny my past, but that's a reminder of who i'm not and i want to be completely who i am

what i've been reading recently makes me think that hormones are more important than surgery

but i think that without srs i'd always feel like something isn't right that, no matter how well i might pass, i'd feel incomplete without srs

and then the convenience issue

also on the not denying my past point

right now the thought of someday getting srs is a big help in persevering through my depression it seems like it would dishonor my past not to go through with it, i wouldn't be who i am if i didn't want to have srs

but when the time comes, a lot will have happened to get there and i with all that new experience, i won't be exactly who i am now, so maybe i'll have a different opinion then, who knows?

as far as the real life experience

i used to think it was an unnecessary and hurtful waste of time and that it had nothing to do with whether or not you qualify for srs

then i started thinking, what else am i going to do while i wait for hrt and srs and it didn't seem so bad

i've seen some gender therapists web sites that are very opposed to the real life test, one is MtF herself

i guess i don't know enough at this point to give an articulate opinion on the subject

you having been through your transition, i'd like your opinion on real life experience

i think your perspective would be more informative than mine

what great questions!

[Sally]

I forgot to comment on the RLT.

I can see it has it's place, it could be possible to get on your hormones and just be feeling so good that you'd jump right into before you gave yourself the chance to really know.

That might sound odd, so I have a little example.

I play trumpet and most trumpet player are obsessed with the mouthpiece - they are searching for the 'Holy Grail' of mouthpieces that will improve their sound, power, range and endurance automatically with out any need for practice - guess what it doesn't exist!

When you try a new mouthpiece some feel really bad and you put them down, some feel OK, but you've got one of those already, one feels fantastic - you've found the perfect mouthpiece!

Wrong after you play it a few days you start to notice things about it that you don't like, you gained a couple of notes on the top but the bottom has disappeared, the sound in the middle registers is beginning to suffer - the honeymoon is over and reality sets in - this is the wrong mouthpiece.

Suppose when you start into RLT you find that it is not any better for you and you are having trouble dealing with it all - without the surgery you can still go back (sort of) discontinue Hormones (you will still be sterile, but with the reintroduction of T everything else works - as I understand it) your body fat will begin the migration - you will become more like a T man. If your breasts hadn't grown too much they might reduce enough to pass or you might need top surgery, but if you had SRS - when your penis is lining your vagina, they can't just pull it back out!

It is your last time to reconsider and it might just be that you will decide that the surgery is unnecessary anyway and save your self a lot of money and a long recovery time.

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora,

In regards to your questions….

Well for me there wasn’t really a RLE as such, because surgery wasn’t my initial goal, however it was around 18 months on HRT before I ventured out of the closet for good…During this time I was living a somewhat ‘androgynous’ life style… If I was referred to in the female pronoun I just acknowledged it and the same went if they used the male one, most of the time no pronoun was used which suited me just fine…However after living quite comfortably as a woman for four years[during which time I had definitely ironed out any identity or social problems ‘possibly within the very first year out of the closet’], when I finally had the opportunity to have surgery, the RLE that was normally required was somewhat irrelevant in my case…But in saying that, when one’s goal is ‘Gender Affirming Surgery’ the RLE is a must…It gives one the chance to iron out any bumps in the road…

For those young ones who for the most part having been living in their preferred gender[with or without HRT] the required RLE will no doubt be a breeze…But the older ones who have accumulated a lot of unwanted baggage that the dreaded testosterone produces-the RLE is definitely a must and how long would depend on the individual’s circumstances, for example how calm and relaxed they feel in their newly acquired ‘preferred’ gender and to what extent they have to run society’s gender gauntlet…

Logically it seems the older one is when beginning to affirm ones gender identity-the more baggage one has accumilated [in order to has G.A.S] the longer the RLE required-some countries it’s six months on HRT others it’s one to two years…

I’m not too sure whether the RLE for three months prior to HRT is still required in some countries…I’m under the impression it has been done away with in most, but I could be wrong…

Sally seemed to sum up the importance of RLE up quite well in her last post….

However…Following is what I copied and pasted from an old post re: The RLE….

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

You have to be made of 'tough stuff' in order to survive what society might throw at you...And it's a sad fact in reality many who transition will not be 'fully' accepted in their affirmed gender ie, family, friends, strangers may look-laugh and ridicule plus in some cases violence may occur...All this I guess depends on where one lives ie whether it's in a liberal or 'red neck' conservative area...However in saying that, most trans-'identified' people I know [trans-people whose birth sex is still quite obvious after transitioning] have developed 'coping' mechanisms they may have 'jumped out of the closeted CD frying pan and into the open TS line of fire' but they have grown fire proof skin...

To reiterate the contents of my original post...before thinking of genital surgery-the cut off point-the point of no return...LIVE IT FIRST FOR AT LEAST A COUPLE OF YEARS...During that two year RLE period society's going to throw all they got at you and if you survive the bombardment then 'bob's your uncle-or bobbi's your aunt...THEN YOU CAN ADD THE ICING TO THE CAKE! If you make the ICING before baking the cake you might regret it!!! It seems the most 'logical' way to do it...live it until you're really comfortable in the role, that is you 'pass' or you've developed 'coping' mechanisms, then you can safely venture out pass the 'cut off' point with no regrets....

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

PS I should mention after 18 months on HRT the hormonal roller coaster ride had well and truly ended and believe me for some trans women I've met, HRT is definately a roller coaster ride and a very bumpy emotional one at that!

Metta Jendar:)

[Guest Evan_J]

Welcome back Jendar I hope life treated you well?

As to the question:

I feel that for me going up to the surgery and not having it would be like climbing Mount Everest and stopping 50 feet from the summit and handing my camera to one of the Sherpas and saying, I'm going to sit here, would you mind snapping a few for me when you get up there?"

Today both halves of the brain say "exactly" on that one.

And as I said on another forum (cough)at a certain point, putting on and taking off your penis gets a little "old" lol.

[Guest Leah1026]

Now I realise that for some trans females, surgery means finally being able to have a normal sexual relationship with a male-look him in the eyes so to speak…However for you older ones for whom sex is no longer on the menu - that is a desire [i’m not saying that older people shouldn’t be having sex-for some, sex is still quite enjoyable] what is it that drives you to have full genital reassignment surgery?

Do you believe that by having surgery it will change your life’s predicament/circumstances, providing you with a better quality of life? Or nothing much will change, apart from a possible sense of feeling ‘whole’ - giving you a somewhat peace of mind?

Do you also feel that Real Life Experience is really necessary prior to surgery? Or just a time waster that puts unnecessary stress on what is already a stressful situation for some?

Who says older folks aren't interested in sex? And age-wise when is somebody "older"?

Primarily I needed surgery to relieve my own dysphoria.

I believe in the RLE because you can't really fully know what life is going to be like until you live it. I am always suspicious of folks who seem to be in a big hurry. My advice is to take your time and deal with your issues, then go full-time.

Going full-time is, in my opinion, the biggest moment in transition. Once you're there and feel the freedom of being yourself 24/7 then you can start planning for surgery. Between researching surgeons, work and living you'll be amazed how quickly 365 days passes. As ready as I was at that point I also didn't want to put myself in a financial hole and so it was 2 years before I had surgery. It wasn't a burden to me.

"The be all and end all?"

Ummm no. SRS is not the end, it is just the beginning of a life in which you are whole in mind, body and spirit. Life goes on.

[Guest Little Sara]

Personally, it's for feeling whole, and in peace with myself. Sex matters too, I'm tired of having to explain encyclopedic length things to people who don't even care or listen. That's the convenience part for me.

As for the Real Life Test. I'm against it on principles, especially when used rigidly. Some places require full-time employment, volunteering or full-time student status in order to qualify as actually "doing" the test. I started the test (for myself, without supervision) YEARS before I was employed. I didn't volunteer, and I can't afford studying. Wether I'm employed or not is no one's business, especially in an environment all too keen to reject us on a whim with regards to work. Prostitution is usually considered as disqualifying someone from transition (at least it is at the Quebec official GIC). I'm not in the sex trades myself, but I've been better off than many in not having to, either.

Then there's homemakers or self-employed people. Do they count as working full-time?

Those places having such requirements, such as Ontario's CAMH, or Quebec's GIC (at Montreal General Hospital), are government-approved, and the only way to get paid SRS by public health insurance for Saskatchewan (sends to CAMH), Ontario and Quebec. They have such requirements as 1 year full-time pre-hormones (and they sometimes lengthen it a LOT). 2 years on HRT pre surgery at least, too. Any lapse in employment will reset the counter to zero. Too bad if you get fired.

They also have you go to a private shrink that works for them, once a week, from their own pocket for the whole duration of the program (at least 3 years) - when we have a public healthcare system that wouldn't cost a dime (in Quebec it ends up costing 300$-ish a month just for the shrink) if the shrink was public. The only plus is they pay for electrolysis (in Quebec province), for some the cost might balance out - but many can't afford 300$ a month worth of shrink.

I was refused in the program in Montreal for "being deluded", because I didn't think the same way they did, and believed in reincarnation...even though I was 7 months full time and 6 months on hormones (in November 2006).

I'd say going full-time for 6 months should be enough, without requiring written proof of such, like payslips.

[Sally]

Little Sarah,

I would give anything and jump through any number of bureaucratic hoops to be able to get my SRS for $300 a month (monthly payments as well!).

For one year RLT you are talking $3600 and 2 years it's $7200 paid out once a month.

Check out prices for those of us proudly in a free country that allows Insurance agencies to set Doctor's fees and policies - $18500, all up front and does not include any lodging beyond the hospital stay - you pay for the night before and the recommended week afterward and no meals are paid after the hospital stay.

An we still have the RLT and HRT requirements!

And All therapy is on your own unless you have got a really good insurance policy.

If it seems that I am unsympathetic, there is a reason - I'm a prisoner in my body for a lake of Governmental control and my own poverty.

As a friend of mine said before you argue and call anyone an idiot, look at the name that signs your paycheck and if you can't agree - change jobs!

You could move down here and see how many years it would take to save up that much!

Sorry if that seems a little harsh, but it is fact and everyone has someone to answer to, when you do what they say you get your surery for free and when we do we have the privilidge of 'buying a car fo cash'.

[Guest Little Sara]

Heh, for free?

I've been on hormones for 3 years. To be admitted in the program, I'd have to firstly be accepted (98% are refused outright). Then have the income to pay 300$ a month, including taking a day off every week (explain that to your boss) and transport to downtown Montreal (2 hours going, 2 hours coming back, as well as 15$ a trip). Then they'd take me off hormones. Require 1 year full-time with the conditions stipulated in my above post, and then, if they like me, might approve hormones at their own endo (they could delay it by a year or two, also), which might not be the same as mine, or as enlightened. Then I'd get 2 years before MAYBE being approved. And that for, at the very least 11,000$ in shrink appointments... and a very good boss who doesn't care that you only work 4 days a week.

No thanks, I'll go to Thailand, no shrink letter. I'll need 6 months with proof of my new name. A small letter from my endo. And maybe 12,000$, plus the trip and hospital stay for a month over there is included. I don't know how a trip would cost for two people, or if I'd even go with someone else at the time (I hope so), but that's cheaper than most surgeons here, and for just as much if not more experience than US/Canada surgeons have.

[Sally]

My point was that we have all of the hormone and therapist bills (mine requires a 100 mile round trip to get there and it is in a different city so no public transportation available around here) and all of the other expenses that you have plus no help from anyone on paying for the actual surgery.

And with medical insurance like it is in the US, they require all payment up front and then you get to hassle with the insurance company and how much are they paying and wait forever to get it back from the surgeon or hospital as it goes through the endless trail of red tape.

You have an option that is not available here - you are free to choose not to take it and to avoid that red tape - I am given no choice - the bill is about the same for me, when you factor in the cost of flying to Thailand from here.

My therapist has already told me that she will count me as full time (it only requires her letter if self employed) even if I have to shoot a couple of weddings as male during that time frame - she has no problem with that.

That is probably my only break, she's so understanding and her word carries all of the weight, the second letter required is from a PHD and they accept her word on my RLT so they are just evaluating me not checking pay stubs.

Do select your surgeon carefully, there are a number of very good surgeons in Thailand, some of the best, but like everywhere else - there are the less than great - if you have complications they will do any corrections necessary and usually for free, the catch another (and I would suspect uncomfortable) trip to Thailand.

No one's path is easy - unless you have a relative that does the surgery!

Love ya and sorry if I sounded bitter, but health care for the self employed here is a total nightmare,

Sympathetic Sally

[Guest Little Sara]

Hopefully the US get universal healthcare like here.

Public shrinks, any hospital visit and stay, any doctor appointment (even specialized ones, as long as the doctor is public), all paid for 100%. Medications paid for 69% on the public health insurance. Private ones are mandatory if they exist at your workplace (if you work), but are usually better as well.

Welfare pays 100% of medication bills. It also doesn't care that I'm given high doses of estrogen (as compared to menopaused women), or that I have a M marker on my medicare card (its the same healthcare as the one paying 69%, they just cover more on welfare, since your income is very low). After 1 year it pays 100% of the dentist bills (I repaired 18 teeth and removed 5). After 2 years it pays eye exams. After 3 years it subsidizes a return to work in tax returns (200$ more per month). Welfare implies not working, and the amount is really low though (not really enough to live alone in any apartment and actually eat food).

--------------

Montreal's General Hospital (Quebec province), as well as Centre for Addiction and Mental Health (Ontario province) act as the gatekeepers of funded surgery. Both refuse the overwhelming majority (well over 90%) of applicants in the program. Prostitution disqualifies. Being effeminate or in the gay community disqualifies. Believing in reincarnation or magic disqualifies. Being schizophrenic also, but they're fast to dish out this diagnosis...in 45 minutes. Dr Assalian didn't ask me any question himself, two of his female subordinates did.

Surgery was not funded by OHIP (Ontario's healthcare program) between 1998 and 2008, conservative party delisted it, saying it was cosmetic. Probably not stranger to Anne Lawrence's "Men Trapped in Men's Bodies" out the same year, as well.

Surgery was funded by RAMQ (Quebec's healthcare program), in public hospitals only...which meant, abroad, in Europe, in Czech Republic - where no one speaks French or English - the trip not paid for obviously, nor the hospital stay. The cost was refunded in income taxes, the year after. So you had to pay upfront anyways.

Since late 2008-early 2009, there has been talk about RAMQ funding it in private hospitals (ie Brassard and Menard, in Montreal). But the requirements and method of refunds remain the same.

Basically, you have to get by with quack shrinks like Dr Pierre Assalian (a sexologist specialized in erectile dysfunction who's been the head shrink for about 40 years now - a dinosaur if there ever was), or Dr Ray Blanchard, Mr Autogynephilia himself, who will plug your penis to his quack-device and be shown porn images (plethysmograph* is about as reliable as old-wives-tales about harvest, like the 3rd of the month determines the weather for the month... - its accuracy has been determined as being 100% falsifiable: someone could be read as aroused one time, and not the next time (to the same stymulus), and it can be controlled by the one tested...) just to prove his theory. You'd also have the honor of being treated by the same staff, and in the same waiting room - as sex offenders.

*Plethysmograph: Just check information about it online, including Lynn Conway's site.

[Sally]

It seems that to be treated fairly in public health we must first find a way to be considered part of that public.

[Guest Leah1026]

Heh, for free?

I've been on hormones for 3 years. To be admitted in the program, I'd have to firstly be accepted (98% are refused outright). Then have the income to pay 300$ a month, including taking a day off every week (explain that to your boss) and transport to downtown Montreal (2 hours going, 2 hours coming back, as well as 15$ a trip). Then they'd take me off hormones. Require 1 year full-time with the conditions stipulated in my above post, and then, if they like me, might approve hormones at their own endo (they could delay it by a year or two, also), which might not be the same as mine, or as enlightened. Then I'd get 2 years before MAYBE being approved. And that for, at the very least 11,000$ in shrink appointments... and a very good boss who doesn't care that you only work 4 days a week.

No thanks, I'll go to Thailand, no shrink letter. I'll need 6 months with proof of my new name. A small letter from my endo. And maybe 12,000$, plus the trip and hospital stay for a month over there is included. I don't know how a trip would cost for two people, or if I'd even go with someone else at the time (I hope so), but that's cheaper than most surgeons here, and for just as much if not more experience than US/Canada surgeons have.

The Standards of Care aren't the problem, that Quebec gender clinic is SERIOUSLY messed up. It's only purpose appears to be to say they have one, not to actually help anyone. Has anyone tried getting the local media involved and putting a bright light on how they are discriminating and HARMING patients through their negligence?

Incredibly ironic this is happening in the same province that Dr Brassard lives. Has Dr Brassard gotten involved in standing up for us with the local politicians?

[Guest Little Sara]

I don't think Dr Brassard has done anything about it. He might have heard of it, but since he's a private surgeon, he might not be privy to much except what his clients tell him. Also, its very recent that someone from the official Quebec GIC could even go see Brassard without paying from their own pocket for surgery, so it's unlikely he's heard much about it. As few people would bother with the program itself if they would not have surgery financed.

[Guest My_Genesis]

Erm...

sex - I just feel like I'm missing out physically on something my brain is telling me I have - and dysphoria. Those are my most important reasons. All the other stuff is secondary. lol.

[Guest leo]

for me it would be a sexual think but also other reasons, like urinating

and for it it mkes me feel complete

[Guest Naomi Stardust]

it's not the end all be all

it's the beginning

and i am eager to start

plus what i already posted

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Pre-op Lizzy? That's me I guess, but I have never written it down. As a seriously senior (I hope y'all don't get tiried of that word - but darn I am age 61), I guess I am eligible to answer?

Well - I once would write, here goes opinionated Lizzy:

I have 'confessed' my need to have sexual reassignment, or gender reassignment, or whatever it is called.. surgery! I have discussed this with Leah in detail (in chat if she remembers?) before confessing to my therapist. I was never sure about SRS when I first started my transitioning, but I am sure now. What happened? I am not sure. Its not about sex, I know that.

Now, yes, if I have the ability to experience sex as a female, I want to. I mean I have the normal curiosity any young girl has, what is it like? I can admit that my sexual orientation took on a different coloring when I began HRT and after a few months (I had exceptional results) looked down in the shower one day and saw I was becoming what a man wants (with one exception). And I was really taken back. It was real. I thought about it and decided it was okay, I mean my sudden interest in being attractive as a woman, after all that is my goal, to be a woman. Women have men as their love objecs, don't they?

I didn't suddenly start thinking about men as I started thinking about my body being penetrated. That is sexual I know, but it seems to be a natural extension of being a woman. Women have to face that biological fact every minute of every day. So I decided to ask my therapist about this.

She said it was common. If I was still attracted to women but wanted to experience sex with a man, I was technically bi-sexual. And therapist apparently hate to have to use those labels - and they have to check the boxes showing we transsexual's sexual orientation. So there I am, suddently a bisexual transsexual. Can we get any more "sex' words in there - ha!

But I said I was not exactly interested in SRS as a sexual thing? Okay, let me add I feel it is an affirmation of my femaleness to have female genitalia. I don't exactly have an adversion to my male genitaila, I am just unhapy it is there in the first place. I never asked for it, but thats what my body gave me. If I can remodel, okay, then I can also remodel down there too. So that's one attitude I have.

But I am a woman already, always have been, always will be. So SRS is not a way to become a woman. Too late I was BORN a woman. SRS is a way to have OTHERS recognize me as a woman?

Now let me add that is a significant thing. The idea of having other see me as female is powerful, and certainly reinforces my need for affirmation. Lord knows I want to present female any and everyway I can, but that is a need to be accepted as I am. Now, I will allow VERY FEW people to peek under my skirt now or later. I mean that's not a thing I want to do, be promiscuous or exhibitionistic.

But, well... when taking a shower, I get to see me. It would be nice to see a fully female me.

However, SRS doesn't make me fully female either, it only makes me a post op female - a T-woman. I cannot reproduce and I do not have periods, and never will unless some medical miricle comes around, unlikely at my age.

Sexually active at my age? Not as much, but I still am. It's a different, more caring type of sex. I AM chemically castrated, but I still know how to pleasure and get pleasure. Would I like to expand that into having girl sex? of course. Will it happen? Maybe. Is it essential? NO! Is it going to solve any problems? NO!

I think of it as a pleasurable possibility. Part of the frosting on the cake.

So - WHY WHY WHY - my need for SRS? I want to be safe. I want to pass 100% as female in the event of any of life's challnges. I my state [Louisiana] we can change our sex on our birth certificate. BUT and this is huge, we have to have had a successful transitioning, including SRS. They DO have a panty check here. I can be Elizabeth on my driver's license, but I cannot be shown as female - UNLESS I HAVE SRS.

If I get arrested, or admitted to a hospital, I am considered male. I will put into the general male population, regardless of what I look like. I cannot even evacuate in the event of a hurricane and be housed on the woman's side of a shelter. Many transsexuals get raped in prison - because we look like women, and the guards turn their heads - we deserve it, they think. So SRS can make me safer. I could also get murdered if I get raped, the attacker thinking I was a woman, and I was found out. I will almost certainly be killed because of what I am if I still have those extra parts.

Also - final part of this answer, SRS would be the frosting on the cake. After transitioning, working, living, loving - generally being a woman? It's gotta be the next logical step. We never really finish transitioning, but all the 'post op' I have met are perfectly happy with their lives. I know there are exceptions of course, but I think I am going to be perfectly content with it.

If I don't die of old age first

Lizzy

[Guest My_Genesis]

I didn't suddenly start thinking about men as I started thinking about my body being penetrated. That is sexual I know, but it seems to be a natural extension of being a woman. Women have to face that biological fact every minute of every day. So I decided to ask my therapist about this.

See, I want to be able to penetrate...that's something I've thought about all along....that's part of the frustration and why I have this desire for "the perfect surgery"...

But I am a woman already, always have been, always will be.

That's certainly reflected in your posts - typically long, wordy, expressive, and excessively filled with emoticons LOL

[Guest B.heard]

Im post op for top and pre op for bottom and I agree as an adult I see the logic in knowing and seeing with HRT and the top stuff in order you can pass and if your passing often or even all the time then yeah your living life as the gender you feel most comfortable and that could well be enough and bring alot of happiness.

But I can remember being maybe 6 and knowing my body wasnt correct and being 9 or 10 and being deeply confused about why I didnt have a penis and I wasnt sexually wired then at all I barely knew what a penis did and certianly had never seen one so why did it never shut up in my brain that I was missing one?

In order to answer why I would like to have SRS I think you need to understand why at such a young age I was needing it and even I dont fully understand how that happened, but I know it isnt just sexual it isnt just social it isnt even 100% sane its almost primal... I need it for me no one and nothing else.

This body now doesnt fit I dont use it im in my 30's and never used it not sexually barely socially Ive never been curious about it sexually Im just not wired in my mind to be able to use this body, to be happy with this body I understand as an adult I cant get a new one only alter this one but Ill do all I can to continue to feel more alive and more me inside and out which means SRS I dont see it as a danger of altering something I can never get back again since Ive never used or could use what I was born with anyway.

[Guest My_Genesis]

I wasnt sexually wired then at all I barely knew what a penis did and certianly had never seen one so why did it never shut up in my brain that I was missing one?

In order to answer why I would like to have SRS I think you need to understand why at such a young age I was needing it and even I dont fully understand how that happened, but I know it isnt just sexual it isnt just social it isnt even 100% sane its almost primal... I need it for me no one and nothing else.

This body now doesnt fit I dont use it im in my 30's and never used it not sexually barely socially Ive never been curious about it sexually Im just not wired in my mind to be able to use this body

Exactly...

But primal now having a much more sexual undertone...lol.