Hormone Therapy

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora,

I hope you weren't confused/fooled but the topic description...

Just re-hashing another old post by cut, editing and copy and paste…

Now many members and guests might be wondering what will happens to their bodies physically when they start HRT... Well to put it in simple layman's terms which most of us can easily understand

Apart from the possible psychological impact -mood swings - emotional roller coaster ride etc that can occur... HRT simply shifts body fats around ...Depending on the type of HRT [testosterone or estrogens]the fat migrates to body areas more appropriate...Say for example those with a male bone structure it migrates to the face - chest - hip areas etc...creating a more androgynous look -that is a fe-male version[body fat wise] of the MALE bone structured YOU... To a certain extent [to what amount would depend on ones metabolism] you will end up with boobs and an increase of fat around your hips etc...Hence the 'female ' version of the male 'bone structured' you! What else could one turn into but a female /male version of ones former self...You can paint [hrT] over the picture but can't change the canvas[bone structure]

However if you are already somewhat 'androgynous' in looks and body then the chances are HRT will work wonders -[if so, this will eliminate the need for expensive FFS ...One can't do much about ones height however ones face seems to be the target area for blending in- more so than height]...In some cases fat migration to the chest area 'boobs' is lacking for some and a boob job might also be called for...

I know some of you may have read my other posts in which I've mentioned HRT effects but I thought I will reiterate...Remember this is just a ROUGH guideline... when it comes to HRT NOTHING is set in concrete...Just ask any endocrinologist...

A ROUGH GUIDE… I REPEAT JUST A ROUGH GUIDELINE!!!

Up to the age of 25 one should get around 100% impact...and no I don't mean you will look like a stunningly beautiful female or handsome male I just mean it will be working to its full capacity if you already look somewhat attractive in an androgynous way then all the better...

25 to 35 - 75%...

35 to 45 - 50%

over 45 it's pot luck what happens - some 45’s and over have reported excellent results..It all depend on what Mother Nature had provided you with...'Some' of us late transtioners can get excellent results without FFS being involved... it just depend on ones genetic make up-androgynous appearance before HRT...I have nothing against ffs except the price...

One does not have to be a brain surgeon to know HRT will have little if any impact on bone structure if starting at a late age... Unless that is one starts HRT at a very young age or starts hormone 'blocker' before reaching puberty - who really know what will happen...

Normally between 18 and 24 months on HRT the candle burns out so to speak [i'm speaking mainly from a trans female perspective]- apart from slight increase in breast growth[which some say will continue for around five years] little else will change...You have by then reached the FEMALE version of your former MALE self...

We are all unique "One person's meat is another's poison etc etc"...HRT WILL NOT have exactly the same impact on all people...

“As I've said again and again just like before...Mother Nature deals the cards... it's just the luck of the draw!!!”

Another interesting thing is to do with one ethnicity/race ....To the European eye, on the 'whole' Asian and African people tend to be more androgynous looking ...But in saying that if a European trans-woman lived in Asian or Africa they would also stand a better chance of 'passing' than the locals...

Finally the 100% 'impact' comment ...I used the term impact to try and put a point across ie, a young persons body is 'normally' more receptive to HRT ...in other word HRT will open fire all guns blazing hitting their target cells [somewhat unarmed cells that is]...The older one becomes the more defensive/resistant to attack the cells become to HRT bullets...No where in my post did I mention 100% 'results' ...only 100% 'impact'...and the terms impact and result do not mean the same thing...

Regardless of the outcome I truly hope you will be happy with the 'female or male' versions of your true selves....

Well I hope this info did you a 'fat lot of good' [excuse the pun but I couldn't resist it]

Metta Jendar

[Guest ~Brenda~]

Kia Ora,

I hope you weren't confused/fooled but the topic description...

Just re-hashing another old post by cut, editing and copy and paste…

Now many members and guests might be wondering what will happens to their bodies physically when they start HRT... Well to put it in simple layman's terms which most of us can easily understand

Apart from the possible psychological impact -mood swings - emotional roller coaster ride etc that can occur... HRT simply shifts body fats around ...Depending on the type of HRT [testosterone or estrogens]the fat migrates to body areas more appropriate...Say for example those with a male bone structure it migrates to the face - chest - hip areas etc...creating a more androgynous look -that is a fe-male version[body fat wise] of the MALE bone structured YOU... To a certain extent [to what amount would depend on ones metabolism] you will end up with boobs and an increase of fat around your hips etc...Hence the 'female ' version of the male 'bone structured' you! What else could one turn into but a female /male version of ones former self...You can paint [hrT] over the picture but can't change the canvas[bone structure]

However if you are already somewhat 'androgynous' in looks and body then the chances are HRT will work wonders -[if so, this will eliminate the need for expensive FFS ...One can't do much about ones height however ones face seems to be the target area for blending in- more so than height]...In some cases fat migration to the chest area 'boobs' is lacking for some and a boob job might also be called for...

I know some of you may have read my other posts in which I've mentioned HRT effects but I thought I will reiterate...Remember this is just a ROUGH guideline... when it comes to HRT NOTHING is set in concrete...Just ask any endocrinologist...

A ROUGH GUIDE… I REPEAT JUST A ROUGH GUIDELINE!!!

Up to the age of 25 one should get around 100% impact...and no I don't mean you will look like a stunningly beautiful female or handsome male I just mean it will be working to its full capacity if you already look somewhat attractive in an androgynous way then all the better...

25 to 35 - 75%...

35 to 45 - 50%

over 45 it's pot luck what happens - some 45’s and over have reported excellent results..It all depend on what Mother Nature had provided you with...'Some' of us late transtioners can get excellent results without FFS being involved... it just depend on ones genetic make up-androgynous appearance before HRT...I have nothing against ffs except the price...

One does not have to be a brain surgeon to know HRT will have little if any impact on bone structure if starting at a late age... Unless that is one starts HRT at a very young age or starts hormone 'blocker' before reaching puberty - who really know what will happen...

Normally between 18 and 24 months on HRT the candle burns out so to speak [i'm speaking mainly from a trans female perspective]- apart from slight increase in breast growth[which some say will continue for around five years] little else will change...You have by then reached the FEMALE version of your former MALE self...

We are all unique "One person's meat is another's poison etc etc"...HRT WILL NOT have exactly the same impact on all people...

“As I've said again and again just like before...Mother Nature deals the cards... it's just the luck of the draw!!!”

Another interesting thing is to do with one ethnicity/race ....To the European eye, on the 'whole' Asian and African people tend to be more androgynous looking ...But in saying that if a European trans-woman lived in Asian or Africa they would also stand a better chance of 'passing' than the locals...

Finally the 100% 'impact' comment ...I used the term impact to try and put a point across ie, a young persons body is 'normally' more receptive to HRT ...in other word HRT will open fire all guns blazing hitting their target cells [somewhat unarmed cells that is]...The older one becomes the more defensive/resistant to attack the cells become to HRT bullets...No where in my post did I mention 100% 'results' ...only 100% 'impact'...and the terms impact and result do not mean the same thing...

Regardless of the outcome I truly hope you will be happy with the 'female or male' versions of your true selves....

Well I hope this info did you a 'fat lot of good' [excuse the pun but I couldn't resist it]

Metta Jendar

Hi Jendar,

Very interesting information. I like the technical aspect of your presentation (I know I am a geek). Hearing this and what others have said, I think, I should consider myself lucky (believe me, I did not used to, for what seems like forever), I don't need estrogen therapy, I look so feminine naturally that strangers have called me ma'am, babe, chick, I love that!. I have to admit when someone calls me sir, I die a little inside. It tells me that there is enough maleness in me that some people see that and respond accordingly. Anyway, I don't really know why I am respnding to this or like this. Forgive me all if this message is not helpful.

bernie

[Guest Little Sara]

Meh there is enough maleness in any human being. Most women pass for reasons other than their looks. Confidence and the lack of fear - basically, feeling entitled to respect as a human being, and as a woman.

Most women are not models, not all women have soprano voices, perfect three measurements and biological children they can attest to having birthed, not all of them bleed - and few people see much of that either way.

It has a lot more to do with how you carry yourself, body language, and your attitude. I know I was scared out of my wits when I first transitioned. I had no hormones at first, very few clothes, no bra, no shoes. I had very long hair, but had been seen as male sometimes even with it, so it was not THE determinant thing.

Children are typically just as insecure in how they will be perceived by others than early transition trans people. They have to 'prove' they are 'really girls' or 'really boys', by at least 'doing their part', like owning a doll or two, a few pink things, wearing a dress from time to time, professing to liking violence, or videogames, playing sports they have no interest in...

[Guest ~Brenda~]

Meh there is enough maleness in any human being. Most women pass for reasons other than their looks. Confidence and the lack of fear - basically, feeling entitled to respect as a human being, and as a woman.

Most women are not models, not all women have soprano voices, perfect three measurements and biological children they can attest to having birthed, not all of them bleed - and few people see much of that either way.

It has a lot more to do with how you carry yourself, body language, and your attitude. I know I was scared out of my wits when I first transitioned. I had no hormones at first, very few clothes, no bra, no shoes. I had very long hair, but had been seen as male sometimes even with it, so it was not THE determinant thing.

Children are typically just as insecure in how they will be perceived by others than early transition trans people. They have to 'prove' they are 'really girls' or 'really boys', by at least 'doing their part', like owning a doll or two, a few pink things, wearing a dress from time to time, professing to liking violence, or videogames, playing sports they have no interest in...

Hmmm, Little Sara,

Very wise words. Thank you.

bernie

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora,

I hope the readers haven’t misinterpreted what I’ve written,

It was not meant in any way to be about HRT making one beautiful/attractive-it was just roughly what one can expect from HRT…Some cross hormone specialists believe the M2F on HRT will begin to take on the characteristics of their mother or older sister[in my case it was my oldest sister]...

After all beauty is in the eye of the beholder…

Will HRT make one beautiful ? Yes…on the outside maybe, maybe not - but it’s on the inside what counts…

Bernie, if you’re already somewhat androgynous in appearance, the chances are when you do start HRT it will enhance your feminine qualities…

Little Sara, Before the advent of HRT, throughout history there were quite a few transgender people living fulltime in their preferred gender-looking and behaving as such…It’s well documented…

I’m not too sure where you were going with your post , but it’s true, behaviour/mannerisms contribute quite a bit when it comes to passing…. However in saying that, there are very [and I mean very] effeminate gay guys[who 'identify' as male gender] whose gender ‘expressions’ are ‘totally’ female in character -that is, where genetic women treat them as one of the ‘girls’ and men normally treat them in a similar way…However that's all down to gender ‘expression’ not necessarily gender ‘identity’…

[The difference between Gender ‘expression’ and Gender 'identity' is another complex story]…

Metta Jendar

[Guest Little Sara]

It's not conscious behavior, mannerism, it's the unconscious kind. Body language is how your body "speaks", and I've had very little control over that my whole life.

I can't say if gender identity correlates to behavior. In my case it didn't. It did correlate with my body language though. I played sports and climbed trees...all the while running and throwing like a girl without knowing I did.

I did look pretty androgynous pre-HRT, now I look pretty feminine, such that even plainly (no make-up, or active attempt to be perceived as a girl, like mannerism), I'll be seen as a girl anyways.

My post was mostly about perception though. Children try to prove themselves, wether it is true or not what they express in terms of behavior. My behavior was somewhat androgynous, at best tomboyish (not boyish for sure). I knew being girlish would cost me dearly. I wanted the body, not the expression.

Children treated by Ken Zucker who have feminine behavior, toy preferences, etc do not necessarily have a female gender identity. Studies have demonstrated the majority of such children do not go on to transition (wether treated or not). The highest proportion of them transitioning was 20% from the Netherlands. Most trans people are not necessarily spectacularly visible like Zucker's clients, I'd say most are not, those would be the exception. And even having not been especially feminine as a child, I would qualify as "primary" transsexual according to shrinks, so it's not the determining factor.

I "learned" my body language without the help of my mother, without having any sister, without observing girls and women. I simply did what came to me, the best way I found it to be. I didn't know there even existed conventions about throwing, walking, running that separated along gender lines, until I was in my 20s. This may have been a blessing.

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora Sara,

For some, female gender expression and body language etc, comes naturally[take in your own case for example], however for many this is not the case-it’s possible many years of male nurturing had left it’s mental scars and they need to work at undoing the male etiquette that was forced upon them from a young age…I’ve heard that in the States and UK there are such places as trans-finishing schools…

When starting HRT the calmness that many talk of, may also have a placebo effect by making one feel that they now have the right 'physically' to ‘openly’ express any suppressed female behaviour traits…

I’m truly happy for all trans-people who are finally being true to themselves…With or without HRT…

Metta Jendar

[Guest Little Sara]

Kia Ora Sara,

For some, female gender expression and body language etc, comes naturally[take in your own case for example], however for many this is not the case-it’s possible many years of male nurturing had left it’s mental scars and they need to work at undoing the male etiquette that was forced upon them from a young age…I’ve heard that in the States and UK there are such places as trans-finishing schools…

When starting HRT the calmness that many talk of, may also have a placebo effect by making one feel that they now have the right 'physically' to ‘openly’ express any suppressed female behaviour traits…

I’m truly happy for all trans-people who are finally being true to themselves…With or without HRT…

Metta Jendar

Well, it's possible that having Asperger made me ignore such male nurturing, in favor of being introspective and relying solely on myself for guidance towards "what I should do".

I hid overt feminine behavior, but never made the connection to being male or female. In my mind, I just "was". The coping persona I developed before my teen years was as neutral as could be, and naturally hid gendered behavior of any kind, because she didn't identify as anything. When the younger, core persona, was freed, when I transitioned, she took over and made it clear that it was 'ok' to be feminine (and said core persona, Little Sara, is VERY feminine as well).

The creating of such a persona (the coping one, Maid Sara) was not a voluntary thing. It happened due to repeated abuse in elementary school by other school people (mainly boys). It let me perform at my peak, as I did with my core persona before (getting top grades).

It only lasted so long though, in 10th grade, I started losing motivation. If I was to cope for the rest of my life, this life was not worth living. In 10th grade I had an average of 87%. In 11th grade, I had an average of 82%. In college first year, I had an average of 61% (and failed 5/6 courses). I knew I could only live so long. Freeing my core persona, was key to my survival.