Transition And The Internet

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

Hi all,

I'm writing this book chapter about technology use across the lifespan and randomly got sidetracked thinking about the effect widespread Internet use has had on the transgender community, particularly with respect to locating transition resources and social support. In general, the overall impact has been positive. After all, now TG individuals can more efficiently locate resources of all kinds and connect with those who are facing similar struggles. We can pool our knowledge, experience, and resources in ways we couldn't before. I think the positive impact of the internet is well-documented and widely agreed upon.

However, as with all things, there's the possibility of a downside. Here's a couple I thought about.

1. This one was brought up by my therapist. He seems to think that there are people transitioning now that are doing so rather "impulsively". He thinks the internet is making it too easy and that many young people are "hopping on the bandwagon" when they might not actually be transsexual. In the past, it was so difficult to locate transition resources and information that only the most determined and committed people managed to "get through". The result of this is that the "pool" of people who completed transition were very, very certain about their decision and tended not to regret it. My therapist believes that in 10, 20, 30 years there might be a wave of people who regret transition.

Needless to say, I don't completely agree with my therapist. He's not TG himself (though he is VERY committed to the cause), so he tends to view things through the eyes of a cisgendered person. I think that one thing that he's overlooking is that depressed people have less energy to do anything. Before the internet, there were likely tons of really depressed TG people who just didn't have the energy or drive to seek out the resources they needed.

Another interesting thing is that, even the regret rate for people in the past really was extremely low, there are reasons for that other than just saying "those people were more certain of their decision". It's a fairly well-known psychological fact that, when you work hard for something, you tend to value it more. For example, people that join fraternities and sororities and endure intense hazing, tend to say they were glad they did it. This seems to be generally true of anything that was difficult to attain. I'm not just making this up, there's research to back it up. It's possible that people who have transitioned with the help of the internet might actually end up having a higher regret rate than before simply because the process is easier. I'm not saying it is less work, but ask someone who transitioned BI (before internet). I'm guessing it was a lot more work before.

2. This is one of my observations and seems to be particularly true for the FTM community. Where are all the old people? I like older adults (to use the PC term)!! I don't know why this is, but the internet centered TG community is young. I'm 31 and feel like an old man. I mean, there are some guys (and a good number of girls) around that are older than me. However, if you look around, the face of TG people on the internet is fairly young.

So, here we young, tech savvy folks are, benefiting from social networking on the internet. We're starting websites, sending emails, posting on message boards. Are we alienating older TG people? Where I come from, older adults don't care for the internet. I feel like we are losing out on the opportunity to talk with older people who transitioned back before the internet. Also, because I have such great social support on the internet, I am less likely to seek out groups in my town. That's just me, it probably isn't other people. I'm a stay home introvert.

What to you all think? Could the internet be increasing the divide between younger and older TG individuals? Are we missing out? Are there just less older people around because it was difficult back then? I've heard that a lot of FTM's are likely to disappear into stealth life. I don't know if it's true.

Note: I read somewhere that FTM's tend to transition at younger ages than MTF's, and that this trend seems to be related to financial issues. Obviously there's some other stuff going on...but I just thought I'd mention it.

Any thoughts? Observations? Things to add to my list?

[Guest Zabrak]

To me, I really don't feel so young as people claim me to be. Sometimes it annoys me when people shrug me off because of my age. I am 20 and a adult now, am I not by law? Atlest in Canada I am. I think that adult status should mean something. I'm not sure if its the T speaking right now or me but even my doctor when she first met me asked around for help for a "20 year old - how do I explain/help a 20 year old?" She seemed scared to help someone my age at first. I guess its just hard now because people still don't think I can make choices for myself.

Personally, I feel old.

If the internet wasn't around I wouldn't of went for my transition - and the reason why? Because I was so depressed I barely left my room. I almost killed myself and really, just finding out that other people feel the same as me by searching the web saved me(I didn't KNOW others felt like me. You can see how lonely and lost I felt). I think some older people may just not understand the net. One day when everyone is net savy - even 90 year olds - I think this opinion will change across the english speaking atlest.

[Sally]

Well, I for one would not be transitioning without the Internet, it's nothing impulsive about it, I started my Internet researc on the subject in January of last year and didn't even join this site until August. I was afraid to talk to anyone about it even over the phone because of caller ID. The Internet allows you to set up a sub account under different names and it requires a bit of effort for someone to locate you - it can be done but not being a preditor or pedifile I was not worried about that - I just didn't want everybody to know before I was ready and had decided on my course of action. The reason that your thearapist is seeing so many people transitioning is not just because of the amount of information available but also because you are less likely to be beatten to death for admitting that you are a transsexual than you werte when I was twenty.

Older Transmen can disappear rather easily and they do! Most of the transwoman who stick around are activist, have strong maternal instincts with no children or feel that they really don't fit in anywhere else. You asked for my opinion and that is it. Do older transmen not want to be activists, of course some do, but if you have been completely accepted into the mainstream of society, it is much harder to weant to jump up and say, "Hey, guys lest's talk about trans issues today, the game last night was boring anyway." If the truth be know and I pass so well that I am widly accepted as a woman, I will more than likely do all of my activism and helping via the Internet - outing yourself once, should be enough. If I am always seen as Trans then I'll go to rallys and speak if anyone want s to hear but I think that is much harder of a decissiom if it isn't made for you.

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

To me, I really don't feel so young as people claim me to be. Sometimes it annoys me when people shrug me off because of my age. I am 20 and a adult now, am I not by law? Atlest in Canada I am. I think that adult status should mean something. I'm not sure if its the T speaking right now or me but even my doctor when she first met me asked around for help for a "20 year old - how do I explain/help a 20 year old?" She seemed scared to help someone my age at first. I guess its just hard now because people still don't think I can make choices for myself.

Personally, I feel old.

If the internet wasn't around I wouldn't of went for my transition - and the reason why? Because I was so depressed I barely left my room. I almost killed myself and really, just finding out that other people feel the same as me by searching the web saved me(I didn't KNOW others felt like me. You can see how lonely and lost I felt). I think some older people may just not understand the net. One day when everyone is net savy - even 90 year olds - I think this opinion will change across the english speaking atlest.

I think there is a lot of ageism among "helping professionals". Just because a lot of 20 year olds are clueless, it doesn't mean that you can't be very mature, rational, and informed at that age. Likewise, there are older people that have the judgment capacity of 12 year olds. Still, when people don't have much time to make a decision, they tend to go with the more biased view. It takes time and effort to evaluate someone as an individual.

Another issue is that doctors/psychologists maybe don't have a good handle on the kinds of feelings that change over time and the kinds that don't. In all truth, there is a LOT about me that is very different from when I was 20. I was all grown up then and everything, but a lot of my beliefs have developed, shifted, or even done an about face. The transgender feelings haven't changed. It seems like "helping professionals" see how our identity and gender expression change and think that it signals changes in the underlying cause. For me, a lot of the things that have changed since I was 20 might "look" like I've been wishy washy about my gender identity. When I was 20, I presented as female, albeit an very nontraditional one. For a while I tried identifying as a female heterosexual, then I was female homosexual, I was bi for a time, now I'm male heterosexual. It probably looked like I was confused, but I think things would have been less so if transgendered people were more visible and if I'd have had internet access when I was younger. Most of my shifts and identity finding was a result of not being able to find the correct expression given my internal gender identity.

Yeah, so people have this overwhelming tendency to write 20 year olds off as being "not grown up" because they are still exploring. People even tried the "you're young" thing on me too. I feel ya, man. For real.

The reluctance to help young people all comes back to one little nugget of self-interest. Doctors and psychologists don't want to get sued for malpractice. Transition is a huge choice. It's medically risky because there's not a lot of formal research. A lot of professionals fear "bad press" if they "allow" someone to transition who then regrets it later or gets sick and blames them. If not for that, things would be much easier for us.

The US sends mixed messages about when you are a grown up. You can drive at 15, in my home state at least. You can vote for the president and get sent off to war at 18, but you can't buy a beer until you are 21. For the most part, forget renting a car until you are 25. Your car insurance costs an arm and a leg until you are 30. Of course, legal adulthood and social/emotional adulthood aren't the same thing. Not everyone becomes a social/emotional adult.

The depression thing is very real to me as well. The internet was my savior. I felt really, really alone. I'd never known another transgendered person and didn't even know SRS was an option until I was like 25. It's no accident that I picked the user ID "StrandedOutThere". That's where I was. I remember when I joined Laura's. I was alone at home. My roommates were out at bars, picking up girls. All I wanted was to be one of them, not just to chase girls because you can do that as a lesbian. I wanted to pursue women AS A MALE. This website gave me access to the social support and information that I needed to move forward.

The internet rocks!

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

Well, I for one would not be transitioning without the Internet, it's nothing impulsive about it, I started my Internet researc on the subject in January of last year and didn't even join this site until August. I was afraid to talk to anyone about it even over the phone because of caller ID. The Internet allows you to set up a sub account under different names and it requires a bit of effort for someone to locate you - it can be done but not being a preditor or pedifile I was not worried about that - I just didn't want everybody to know before I was ready and had decided on my course of action. The reason that your thearapist is seeing so many people transitioning is not just because of the amount of information available but also because you are less likely to be beatten to death for admitting that you are a transsexual than you werte when I was twenty.

Older Transmen can disappear rather easily and they do! Most of the transwoman who stick around are activist, have strong maternal instincts with no children or feel that they really don't fit in anywhere else. You asked for my opinion and that is it. Do older transmen not want to be activists, of course some do, but if you have been completely accepted into the mainstream of society, it is much harder to weant to jump up and say, "Hey, guys lest's talk about trans issues today, the game last night was boring anyway." If the truth be know and I pass so well that I am widly accepted as a woman, I will more than likely do all of my activism and helping via the Internet - outing yourself once, should be enough. If I am always seen as Trans then I'll go to rallys and speak if anyone want s to hear but I think that is much harder of a decissiom if it isn't made for you.

Love ya,

Sally

Thanks for sharing your views, Sally! You bring up some excellent points. You speak the truth!

I'm not suggesting that the Internet causes people to transition impulsively, just that it creates an easier path for people who already are impulsive. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has run into some people online who aren't thinking things through completely. Obviously the good outweighs the bad in this, but it's always useful to be aware of and consider types of impact something can have.

Like you, the ability to remain anonymous while gathering information was EXTREMELY helpful and important to me. I didn't want to have to come out just to be able to start doing some research. I spent months skulking around the internet under different aliases before I was willing to stand up and say "this is me". In fact, I wouldn't even go to a therapist in person (not at first) because I was so scared. I met with a therapist over the phone. Still do. Having to ID as TS in person is risky business, even now. With the internet, we can come out on our own time line. That's a good thing.

Insofar as the disappearance of FTM's who pass, I'm guessing it is just like you said. When people are passing and living as their true selves, they probably don't enjoy being constantly reminded of it. They want to go on with their lives and leave transition behind. I can't blame people for that.

There's plenty of useful activism and contributions to the community that can be made anonymously via the internet. In fact, I met a transwoman at a conference who was totally and completely stealth. She was AWESOME. No one at her school knew her as trans, however, she'd managed to get a lot of school level legislation through that directly benefited transpeople. I think there is at least a degree of anti-stealth sentiment floating around on the interwebs. There's no reason a person has to out themselves to be an advocate and to make significant contributions. Those things come in many forms.

My therapist told me that my personality was very much like that of the transmen that do disappear. It kind of made me feel a little bad. I don't want to abandon my trans brothers and sisters. I have benefited tremendously from the community and from the connections I've made. I really want to give something back so that things can be a little better for the next generation. That being said, I can also see a time when I'd rather not be openly trans in every domain of my life. Only time will tell, I guess.

So, I guess another good point of the internet is that it allows "quiet activism", so that those who don't want to be out in the open can still contribute.

[Guest julia_d]

I started well before the internet. It's a great resource for information.. but that was there through your doctor in the past, and the paths are still that way first.

I think by being a community we do the younger people a great service by showing that it is possible, and it isn't anything to be ashamed of. That IMHO is the change the internet has made. It has shown us all that we are not alone.

[Guest Zabrak]

You do have a very good point, Stranded. People change slightly as they get older - but think of being alone, out of your parents reach and in the "real world" yet still not being taken seriously. I think its a very frustrating time in someones life. More frustrating to prove yourself to someone that this one thing in your life wont change as you age, but only get stronger or kill you along the way.

Also, I think its unfair that doctors/people use the net againts people 25 or under. I grew up with the computer. I can't remember when I didn't know about them - but I didn't start being allowed to freely use them till I was slightly older. Using the "net" againts those who are expected to be savy with it to me just sounds like a way to back younger people into a conner.

[Guest Little Sara]

The result of this is that the "pool" of people who completed transition were very, very certain about their decision and tended not to regret it.

The requirements were completely stupid back then. Heterosexuality was mandatory, because, until 1973, homosexuality was considered a mental illness - so shrinks didn't want to "cure" someone of being trans, and then make them gay. Then there is compulsive feminity in MtFs and compulsive masculinity in FtMs. If you're not a chest-beating gorilla, you're not a "real" trans man. If you're not a dutiful submissive pink-and-flowers dresses-and-skirts housewife-to-be, you're not a real trans woman.

So yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if people back then thought "that's complete BS, no way I'm doing that", even if it was painful.

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

You do have a very good point, Stranded. People change slightly as they get older - but think of being alone, out of your parents reach and in the "real world" yet still not being taken seriously. I think its a very frustrating time in someones life. More frustrating to prove yourself to someone that this one thing in your life wont change as you age, but only get stronger or kill you along the way.

Also, I think its unfair that doctors/people use the net againts people 25 or under. I grew up with the computer. I can't remember when I didn't know about them - but I didn't start being allowed to freely use them till I was slightly older. Using the "net" againts those who are expected to be savy with it to me just sounds like a way to back younger people into a conner.

I think you are probably the exception rather than the rule. I work around people your age and a lot of them are still very childlike. A lot of them still have their parents make doctors appointments for them and do their taxes for them. Even though you are exceptionally independent, mature, and level-headed, a lot of people your age are not. The bummer for you is that people will probably just assume you are like others your age. It's like your landlord, if you keep on being you, people notice.

My brother is 3 years older than you and he STILL blows his money on stupid things. He'll tell his dad he doesn't have money to pay his car insurance, then he'll go buy a 65 inch television. Go figure.

When I was a kid, a computer with 8K (that's kilobytes) of RAM was a big deal. Modems were unheard of. There was an internet, but it was only at universities. We didn't get home internet until I was in high school, maybe 8th grade. I was definitely a teenager before we got it. Just a fun factoid. Stuff changes fast!

[Guest Zabrak]

I think you are probably the exception rather than the rule. I work around people your age and a lot of them are still very childlike. A lot of them still have their parents make doctors appointments for them and do their taxes for them. Even though you are exceptionally independent, mature, and level-headed, a lot of people your age are not. The bummer for you is that people will probably just assume you are like others your age. It's like your landlord, if you keep on being you, people notice.

My brother is 3 years older than you and he STILL blows his money on stupid things. He'll tell his dad he doesn't have money to pay his car insurance, then he'll go buy a 65 inch television. Go figure.

When I was a kid, a computer with 8K (that's kilobytes) of RAM was a big deal. Modems were unheard of. There was an internet, but it was only at universities. We didn't get home internet until I was in high school, maybe 8th grade. I was definitely a teenager before we got it. Just a fun factoid. Stuff changes fast!

You're right, sadly. Its hard for me to grasp that people my age are rarely mature enough to live on their own or see things through logical points of views. Even if I see how bad/imature some of them are I tend to forget that a lot. Sorry about that. I just want to be treated like a 40-year old sometimes! Haha.

Yeah that is a wow! We had computers(lots of apples) in all my grades I can remember(which I cannot remember them all..sadly). I remember I had to do -all- my final work on the computer because hand writing things was too "messy" unless it was for tests. We also got to go in the computer room for rainy days when we wern't allowed to play outside on the playground. I loved those days. I played a dinosaur game every time. lol

[Guest Elizabeth K]

You people are nutz - talking about computers and the intenet like it was so old. I didn't have a compuer until I was 40 years old and I bought it to play PONG with my kids!

But let me say this about the internet - I first used it to correspond with everyone (email) then to spend money I didn't have on things I really didn't want (Ebay) then to buy books I couldn't find anywhere else (Amazon) then to look up words (Wickapedia) then to find out what I was and why I was so unhappy (Laura's). There were other uses (ahem) and other reasons fo be on the internet. But it was learn-learn-learn for me. I had to learn computers (I now use them for designing). The ones I originally had - they had '86" in their numbers (look that up!) and I almost bought a Commadore 64 for $1200 (1980 dollars), My cell phone has more features than it ever had! My $12 calculator has more capacity and features than the computer in the original space vehicle that landed on the moon.

So the internet? Yes - probably Laura's saved my life - same reasons as Zab - we are not that much different (other than he is 1/3rd my age, brilliant and talented, loved by all, has his whole life left to live, and is FTM - hummm - yes, definately twins).

And let me answer the original thread.

"1. This one was brought up by my therapist. He seems to think that there are people transitioning now that are doing so rather "impulsively". He thinks the internet is making it too easy and that many young people are "hopping on the bandwagon" when they might not actually be transsexual."

Is this guy actually Dr. PHIL? I bet he is - gotta be! HI DR. PHIL!! WE SEE YOU!!! What a crock of (censors will get that word). I mean, which century did he go to school? Did they also teach the world is flat, diseases were caused by vapors, and that women and African-Americans were chattel?

2. Where are all the old people? But Sally? Donna Jean? Evan? Kelly Ann? Mia? All ? - where are the old people? I am a 13 year old girl in puberty, actually, but the difference is I have a car and I have a credit card! And the others - just babies! Wrinlked and grey maybe, but mere infants.

All I can say is that Laura's is safe and well monitored, more suited to the younger people. If you go to other sites you will note the age level seems to go up about 20 years.

Just an opinion or two, or three.

Lizzy

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

You're right, sadly. Its hard for me to grasp that people my age are rarely mature enough to live on their own or see things through logical points of views. Even if I see how bad/imature some of them are I tend to forget that a lot. Sorry about that. I just want to be treated like a 40-year old sometimes! Haha.

Yeah that is a wow! We had computers(lots of apples) in all my grades I can remember(which I cannot remember them all..sadly). I remember I had to do -all- my final work on the computer because hand writing things was too "messy" unless it was for tests. We also got to go in the computer room for rainy days when we wern't allowed to play outside on the playground. I loved those days. I played a dinosaur game every time. lol

Back in my day, we played Oregon Trail and Number Munchers on the Apple IIc. I still have an Apple IIc emulator on my computer so I can play the old games.

I was like you too. My mother always said I had an "old spirit". When I was a kid I wouldn't go to bible study with the other kids, I went with mom.

[Guest Jackson]

Heck, I do remember when computers ended in "86". I'm positive I have an old soul too.

So, postulate #1, I don't think the Internet has made people more impulsive to change. The information is easier to obtain; there are people who do slip through and don't have the right reasons for transitioning; however, I think that it has done wonders for people who do need to transition. I believe there is a lot more good coming from the availability of the internet than bad.

Postulate #2, I think that because it was so difficult years ago to transition and it was not so accepted as it is today, people tried to go stealth as much as possible. Sally was spot on with her assessment.

[Guest Evan_J]

Ok, I'm the fuddy-duddy today, but even the fuddy-duddy has to check in on the topic so that there's an assortment of inputs.

I gotta admit, there have been times (not on this board, but other places on the internet -and stranded you might know one or two of those places of which I speak ) when I -like the therapist- have been moved to wonder "how much of this is bandwagonism". I even remember some threads around here I started (who knows when now....) in which I questioned or wanted to get a sense of "exactly how deeply" this had been thought out by younger people. And yes, its unfair to look mainly at the young, but when I listened on those other sites those were the age groups that made me wonder it. Mostly because of the "unanimous" cries of "I was like this when I was 3 and I remember wanting a penis then" -its just "too " unanimous. And maybe that's what this therapist (and some other older people?) see. One thing time and age makes you take notice of (at least for me) is instances where "everyone" says the same thing; "everyone", "always", "any", those are alarms. And for anyone wanting the whole statement, they typically are "alarms" to b.s.

Even in circumstances where there is an undeniable pattern, it isn't "pat".

And there are a lot of "pat" replies/responses/statements going around.

And maybe its just people like me (you know I really do scare myself when I start sounding this "mainstream " right?), but I really do worry that theres some 18-24 year old young person out there thinking "yeah, my friend Nick, Tommy, and Ian all did it and all of them turned out ok so I'll be ok and I'll just 'be with them'." Getting cut is real. Those scars on your chest are real. Being afraid to move too hard because someone cut through your abdominal wall and you're not sure if what's left inside might not stay "inside" if you move too hard is real. So are the risks while all of these things get done. And I wonder if there isn't a "dreamlike" quality to thinking about it to a person who's never seen someone while the pus bumps raised on their sides and the bulb hadda get emptied. I dunno. Its the old person in me.

And as far as older peeps not "socializing" on the internet like we do (cuz thats what it is, they use it but only for very business specific things a lot of em but not all this "fraternizing") I agree with both assessments; that its "not preferred" (as opposed to face to face) and that theres the "in the woodwork" aspect, at least with regard to FtMs. My favorite example (yep, gotta haul him out again) is my therapist. All this "in dept and extended" socializing on the internet is b.s. as far as he's concerned. And to an extent I agree with him. If you wanna know the real deal about someone you see them and talk to them face to face. And I can't argue with him because there are a lot of things about a person you just will never know, you get a skewed image dealing with the internet. We almost all would agree on that if the topic were dating how come its "so " different when the topic is gender? (yeah I know, "unpopular" thought from the moderator of a site but its real). And the other thing is being in the woodwork in rl, and having transitioned so long ago (almost 25years for him) honestly sitting and talking about transitioning all day in his free time (jeez, after all he has to listen to it professionally) is just not "of interest" for him and I know I've heard that same thing from a MtF too. They reach a certain point were they want to "live" and not just talk about "when I transitioned". Blows that we miss out sometimes on info, but sometimes (maybe) they segment a portion of their time to share what they did?

[Guest Zabrak]

I agree with you Evan but not on the part where you say talking on the net is, or can be thought of, just B.S. I think you have *ducks and covers* older veiw of the internet and socializing on it. Because me and my friends would agrue againts that point. Knowing/befriending people on the net for 6 years isnt B.S to me.

Not trying to sound mean or anything.

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

Evan, you always bring in a new and different point of view. Very cool.

I think what you are talking about is some of what my therapist is picking up on. The crew here at Laura's is exceptionally "together" and mature. It's not the case everywhere. Like I said, I am no expert, but my therapist says that peer pressure is coming into play a lot more with younger people transitioning. Again, I'm not saying anything about young people in general. All I'm saying is that I remember a time when what other people were doing mattered a lot more to me than it does now. Like Jackson said, there are always people who slip through and don't have the right reasons for transitioning. It's a fact. It happens. I think that, while the internet is a valuable resource, making things easier also increases the number of people who slip through. I feel like it is important for us, as a community, to take note of these things. Also, I just like to think.

Jackson, I also agree with you about the benefits of having more people transition. The more of us there are, the more visible we'll be. More visibility = greater acceptance. On that note, check out the movie "Milk" if you haven't already. I thought it was pretty good and really speaks to the power of being visible and vocal as a community. I was inspired.

There are some really clear differences in how people of different ages interact with technology, particularly the internet. It seems like people my age and older, so 30 and up, often do look at the internet and computers as a tool and little more. For the younger groups, technology is more integrated into everyday life. They use the internet "differently" than older people. There was a paper that came out on this recently. They basically said that internet socializing as it was in the mid 1990's is very different from internet socializing today. In the 1990's, internet socializing was mostly with strangers in chat rooms. People would sacrifice real life relationships in favor of more shallow online ones. This doesn't seem to be the case so much anymore. The most "up to date" data suggests that young people use the internet to supplement and enrich real life relationships. Also, back in the early days of the internet there were very few people online. Now there is a more 'representative sample' of people to socialize with because so many more people are getting online. Yup. My therapist things online socializing is bs too. I think there's a lot of bs going on, but that times are changing. Internet socializing is different now than back in the day.

I've met some older FTM's at Southern Comfort but not too many. I'm guessing that as being transgendered becomes less taboo and more visible, more people will be willing to come to conferences and stuff. When you think about it, I imagine conferences played a much bigger role in people's lives before the internet. Socializing online is awesome, but I definitely enjoy meeting people in person too.

Who is coming to Southern Comfort?

[Guest Zabrak]

I agree with Stranded, once again.

Stop being so smart!

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

I agree with Stranded, once again.

Stop being so smart!

Ha! Thanks!

I'm not so smart. I'm just good in print and like to talk about stuff. The internet is where I come to play.

[Guest leo]

this was a question my mum made me ask myself about if the internet wasnt there would you wona be a boy

and after long thinking the answer is yes

although my mum thinks the internet has turned me this way it hasnt

before i join this forum and stuff

i had a girlfriend that called me her boyfriend and i acted like one

that was only between the two of us because i was afriad of what people my think

but i eventually told another friend how i was acting and i said it felt right

she did some research and found this site and thats when i joined

i think i would of still transitioned but properly later on in live

this site helped me find who i am, technically i was already acting like a male before anyone, the internet has merely given me the push in the right direction

[Guest Linus Thomas]

Who is coming to Southern Comfort?

I won't be. I'll probably go to Philly but not SC. That said, as one of the "older" FTMs (turn 39 at the end of the month) I do think a lot of those FTMs that came before us are living their lives. There are certain far more trans individuals out there than what we see here and, IIRC, the FTM population is less than half of that pop. The ability to be happily stealth likely is the biggest factor as are the complexities of just living life.

While your therapist may think that the internet makes it easier to transition, they are probably right. It doesn't mean, however, that there will be this huge spike in reversal transitioning or regrets. I think that the generation that is transitioning now is far more educated than previously (so more aware of issue) and far more active/involved (so more "out" than previously).

[Guest Little Sara]

I won't be. I'll probably go to Philly but not SC. That said, as one of the "older" FTMs (turn 39 at the end of the month) I do think a lot of those FTMs that came before us are living their lives. There are certain far more trans individuals out there than what we see here and, IIRC, the FTM population is less than half of that pop. The ability to be happily stealth likely is the biggest factor as are the complexities of just living life.

While your therapist may think that the internet makes it easier to transition, they are probably right. It doesn't mean, however, that there will be this huge spike in reversal transitioning or regrets. I think that the generation that is transitioning now is far more educated than previously (so more aware of issue) and far more active/involved (so more "out" than previously).

There were far more regrets when doctors decided to open butcheries to do surgeries in the 60s-70s. Having no experience and not knowing exactly what they were doing, they caused a lot more regret than the internet could ever hope to. It's blamed on the trans people of the time, who "rushed into surgery", but well, I'd expect you should trust a surgeon not to do an half-assed job, so I'm not blaming the trans people for trusting those surgeons.

[Guest Crossroads]

I just want to say, this topic is great!

Professor Ainsley is always fun!

(I'll be in Atlanta, so I should be coming to Southern Comfort)

[Guest Crossroads]

I kind of just wanted to bring up another point. I saw this a lot in college and living in a "young" town for 5 years.

I'm only 23 years old. And I call myself a "kid". When my therapist heard that, he was surprised. I think too many people my age think that we know everything, that we are SOOO adult. Well, I'll probably be calling myself a "kid" for a long long time. I believe that I will NEVER know everything. And there will always be someone wiser (whether older or younger) who can help me. Some younger kids (and I use that word again) have helped me in ways no adult could, because they are wise. I don't think AGE determines WISE-ness. I do think it's a FACTOR. But not a mutually exclusive one.

In addition, I wanted to talk about the "gay is cool" movement that happened in the "young" town I lived in. It was very "artsy", and I know many people had a hard time with coming out to their families. And then there was everyone else, a good 50% of the "gay" community in that place thought that being gay was so cool. All they talked about was being gay, doing stuff for the gays, loved calling themselves the dreaded F word. Just wanting to experiment, while making it hard for the people that were having a really rough time of it. "Gay" and "Lesbian" has become dramatically more accepted in the south in the past 10 years, from where I stand. And now it has become something many kids feel is cool. It's very "rebellious". And while some, if not many of them ARE homosexual, many of them aren't. I've watched a lot of these kids (anywhere from 13-25) go from "I'm so gay that's all I talk about" to "I'm bi and it's just so hard" to "i've just met the best person in the world for me who is not of the same gender and i was never gay, i was just in my experimental phase".

Again, it's rude in my opinion to treat ANY group of people as being ONE type of person. Right now I'm having trouble at work because people treat the Spanish-speaking customers at my job like dirt. Many times they just ignore them when they obviously need help. Just because they can't speak much English doesn't mean they're stupid. Sure, I agree, if you are living where everyone speaks English, you should make an attempt to learn it, but most of them AREN'T stupid. They TRY. And most of them, especially the prideful ones, don't pretend they speak English just to get by. They'll apologize and tell you they're having trouble, or bring someone along who speaks better than they do. But of course, there's the ones who know 3 phrases and get on my nerves.

Same with this, many transgendered people, if not most, are TRULY transgendered. But that doesn't mean that there aren't people who are going to get into it and aren't truthful. I would like to think that only truly transitional individuals would subject themselves to shots and surgery, but that may not be true. In Real Life OR online, we can pretend to be what we aren't. Everyone pretends to be something they aren't at some point. I don't think the AMOUNT of people is magnified by the internet. I think the amount of things we can lie about is more, but that's it.

This is getting long and Angie's trying to get me off so I can eat. Guess I'll shut up and get this stomach filled.

(Hope I made sense)

[Guest bronx]

This is coming from another older guy. (i'll be 38 in a may). When I first came out as trans it was in the early 90's and the internet was really just starting to catch on. Not everyone had access as they do now and it was mainly used for emails and chat. I had known some mtf's at the time but the life style that they were living wasn't safe. So I really didn't have anyone to talk to or that much information. The thing that saved my life was 1- I lived in NYC, 2- I worked in one of three gay and lesbian bookstores, so I was able to get some books on being trans. I didn't have much resourses and getting hormones was almost impossible unless you went black market. (which I did for 6mos).

Since the internet I have seen some great things for our cummunity, There are websites out there that reallly help alot. Times change and technology changes and the way we use it changes as well. I'm happy that young people are able to go on line and get the information that they need, no-matter what the subject.

I am from another time when we played stick ball in the street, but things do change. Do I think things change for the better, No. not all but most.

[Guest Zabrak]

@cross

It sounds like you have a very negative veiw of the internet and of young people(you used the word "young" like a weapon). I know that in my highschool there where a lot more gays - and yes it was a phase for some kids. The thing is I'm happy about this because this means gays are slowly been more accepted then not. I know way back no kid or adult would ever dare to do that - and people still don't. In Canada we have rights for all gays/les/bi's/tras already, but it being more publicly accepted is another thing. So I say let kids go through this without such a condescending view of them, looking down at them every chance you get... Some of them ARE exploring their sexuality, which is a good thing for anyone who is discovering theirselves(they arn't as scared to do it). But changing your body to just 'explore' is another thing. Which is why the process to transition is so tough to get(kids AND adults ruin it for others. Go on the net and explore people who regret it. You can't always blaim "the kids"). I myself have never got a tatoo or earring or anything to change my body so I wouldn't understand this - but I know there are people out there that enjoy it.

As for the net - yes anyone can lie - but you forget behind most liers there are people in pain. People who don't like who they are so they need to lie about it. Then there are real people out there, 100% truthful and only wanting to have a place to be their true selves and be accepted for both their flaws and their good traits. It's good to be aware there are bad people, but its also not good to always pin everyone as a lier and fake because it gives you a most unfriedly and unapproachable persona.

Everyone is allowed their views of course, though...