Another Negative Column

[Guest Kenna Dixon]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2014/07/10/the_transgender_religion_123268.html

[Guest Jennifer T]

Oh good grief.

[Charlize]

We have to expect backlash i fear. I just hope the overall direction is forward.

Hugs,

Charlize

[Guest]

I absolutely cannot understand some people. The older I get the more I realize how dumb people really are, in so many facets of life. But for that columnist to call gender issues akin to religion? Seriously??

To me, that article basically states that anything that a person feels strongly about is a religion. So my love of motorcycles is religion? Hell, nations that riot over the loss of a soccer game, that must be a religion! There's many other parallels that can be drawn, but I think everyone gets my point.

Just like anyone else, I have issues in which I disagree, but I don't berate people of their opinions or feelings etc, until they attack me. So I have to ask, why are people so insecure that they feel the need to attack other people? Does it truly make them feel better? Is it just to sell airtime or newspapers and such?

I'm babbling, but I just don't understand people.

[Guest KimberlyF]

I don't agree with her tone, but she raises some issues that I have addressed. And I wasn't aware of the Harvard study till today. Just another in a list with similar results.

Parents want answers. I'm around parents with special needs kids every week. I've seen some very questionable decision making in an effort to find an answer and a feeling of peace.

Little kids should feel ok to express themselves however without grand declarations one way or another that will set them on a certain path.

[Guest Faith gibson]

Just because a person is an eloquent writer or speaker does not mean that what they say has any merit.

Articles like this are meant to dampen the spirits of the people they are attacking. Make no mistake, it is an attack. By using some truths and wording their attack in a way that elicits other like minded people to feel they are just being reasonable, they are taking the back route to basically saying that any way that is not their way is faulty.

I felt the same uneasiness yesterday when I read the article Kenna posted about the girl who was Daddy's tomboy and used her experience to basically deny the existence of transgender people.

[Guest Kaylee]

People may be "understanding" about things if they have the right information, but if they don't feel that way, they will never really "understand". I think the writer will never do either. He states that the parent "urge" their children to be Transgender... as opposed to "support" their identity. No parent ever went to their so and said "I think you should wear a pink dress today!" It doesn't happen!

Should parents proceed with caution... sure! Should they let a child make a decision like that on a whim... no! But over time, these things become obvious... even when suppressed!

People know who they are.... young or old. Noone else's opinion matters... not even one child psychologists.

Kaylee

[Guest ashleynikole]

I so wish I was called to go head to head with people who hold so tightly to the belief that everything is black and white. I've done a LOT of scriptural and historical and anthropological study and research to know things are not so black and white. I also unfortunately do not have a brain that is wired to kick anything to the curb that doesn't fit my narrative or ideals. I've always been a middle of the road person who leaves open room for change, new information, new evidence and the ability to critically think about it.

Alas this is not my Goliath to fight. I wish it was because this makes me sad. This is not love. This is not Christ. My spirit is grieved.

Sadly

Ashley

[Guest Ky_Ki]

To me, that article basically states that anything that a person feels strongly about is a religion. So my love of motorcycles is religion? Hell, nations that riot over the loss of a soccer game, that must be a religion! There's many other parallels that can be drawn, but I think everyone gets my point.

Well I would argue that indeed those things are religions or at least religious in their quality. Blind faith, a culture of following and influence. Look at Brazil. Soccer certainly has more influence on many people in that country than any Church does. Go and look up and Android vs. Apple debate online and you'll see the exact same kind of arguments and tone of any religious debate - refusal to acknowledge facts, or accept another person's perspective, and an overall ethos that reflects how they live their daily lives.

I don't agree with the negative tone of the article, nor it's title that's clearly designed to draw clicks, but the majority of the subject matter is criticism over the trend of parents embracing and hastening transition in really young children and not over the legitimacy of being trans itself. In fact the author seems to somewhat embrace or at least acknowledges the idea of gender fluidity or non-normative gender behavior. It's really the very early transitions she seems to mostly take issue with, which I think is a caution that should be heard loudly. Even the WPATH acknowledges most young children (it was around 70-75% I think) who initially think they're trans later decide they're not. And I do think, having first hand experience with parents that are all too eager to help with anything, that there is a risk of children thinking they have to continue with something they no longer want (Like the stereotypical kid who loves basketball when they're 6 and plays it through high school and college because everyone kept encouraging it and they thought they were expected to even though they lost interest long ago. It happens.)

[Guest Brenda Hailey]

Whenever "RELIGION" is invoked hypocrisy is sure to follow, this article did not fail to keep the status quo.

[Guest Sarah Faith]

It's an opinion column, people are allowed to have opinions even ones that others may not find comfortable or even tasteful. Really if one feels strongly enough about this the best counter would be to write a counter column.

[tracy_j]

Religion has its place but ???

An article to wind up the masses!

[Guest KimberlyF]

I don't agree with the negative tone of the article, nor it's title that's clearly designed to draw clicks, but the majority of the subject matter is criticism over the trend of parents embracing and hastening transition in really young children and not over the legitimacy of being trans itself. In fact the author seems to somewhat embrace or at least acknowledges the idea of gender fluidity or non-normative gender behavior. It's really the very early transitions she seems to mostly take issue with, which I think is a caution that should be heard loudly. Even the WPATH acknowledges most young children (it was around 70-75% I think) who initially think they're trans later decide they're not. And I do think, having first hand experience with parents that are all too eager to help with anything, that there is a risk of children thinking they have to continue with something they no longer want (Like the stereotypical kid who loves basketball when they're 6 and plays it through high school and college because everyone kept encouraging it and they thought they were expected to even though they lost interest long ago. It happens.)

Exactly.

And the story yesterday is the flip side of what is often repeated here. 'I knew I had gender issues at a young age and I'm trans , so then anyone who has gender issues at a young age ...'

It is a leap with no logic. Same as "I knew I had gender issues at a young age and I turned out heterosexual and gender typical."

For all this talk of a spectrum, everyone still wants to push this social gender idea. Pink is a color, not a gender. Nobody should be bullied and any kid should be able to play with whatever toys or other group of kids they want to.

[Guest DesiB]

Sadly, I see the logic of the argument against us here. I happen to be a non-believer and a fan of Penn Jillette myself. So articles like this really sting. But they always have common themes, which I would really love to see our community take away from them such as constant references to the "gender with which they identify rather than the one with which they were born” or that we are simply "living as the opposite sex" or that we were "trapped in the wrong body" and that this is all "subjective" and merely "belief" which "defies the physical world."

Those quotes are all from the column which is correctly described as negative toward us, but these thoughts all originated within our own community. I'm not naive enough to think we can ever completely stop the negativity toward us by improving the way we describe our own experiences, but I do believe we can significantly reduce it and seriously help people understand us on a more concrete level. We have to stop using medieval language of dualism between a spiritual brain and a physical body--the brain is physical and essential to the body!

The other elephant in the room is the issue of "passability," since "faith" is belief in things not seen (or otherwise perceived). I completely empathize with anyone struggling with issues of acceptance for their proper sex/gender identification. But I also know there are many people who resist the idea that they should even make much effort to "pass" any social norms for their sex/gender and simply demand others to identify them correctly based on their proclamations. That takes us right back to the point of the article where people can reasonably see us as imposing something akin to a religious belief upon others with consequences if they resist. My daughter has noticed that little boy clearly has a penis and he still gets to share her locker room for gym class? Or my coworker who comes to work every day in a dress, but has obvious male-pattern baldness, walks like John Wayne, talks like Barry White, and just because he took time off for an operation thinks he gets to chat with me about intimate topics in the ladies' room? Can you see how some people just don't have that kind of faith and don't want it forced on them when all they hear as an argument for it is that some person who sees a therapist on a regular basis subjectively feels trapped in the wrong body?

[Guest Jennifer T]

So Desi, then what do you propose?

[Guest DesiB]

So Desi, then what do you propose?

Here's how I would explain it differently. I was born and identify with this body. I suffer no delusions about the fact that my body was not perfect and my birth defects caused a misidentification at birth. Decades later, I can finally live my life with an aligned sex/gender. I have made every effort to help others see me the way I see myself so that I do not have to simply demand an act of faith on their part. This is the ideal. To achieve such a position, we have to go through transition. By showing the world more successful transitions, I think, we can give them a better view of our nature. Although, the transition process itself is no fun for any of us. It is awkward and often miserable. And the longer it is denied before we are even allowed to begin the process, the less likely a successful outcome. So I sincerely hope that in the future, people will be able to begin transitioning far younger than I or many of us did.

[Guest Jennifer T]

Thank you for that reply, Desi. Something to think about.

[Guest LizMarie]

The Harvard study did not specifically track the incidence of children who are trans or not trans. The Harvard study was tracking the incidence of those who suffered various forms of abuse by parents or other family because they were gender non-conforming. The study found that gender non-conforming children suffer higher rates of abuse.

The study did not follow any cases past 27 years of age (median age was 22.7 so most were far younger than that). The study determined "gender non-conformity" with just four questions. The study specifically did not attempt to identify children who were transsexual at all. The study also considered sexual orientation in analysis of abuse.

In short, the study was not about rates of children diagnosed transsexual being trans into adulthood at all. Please do not erroneously cite the study in that manner (which is what Real Clear Politics, a radical right wing extremist web site did). The study does not draw that conclusion at all.

A related article in the Harvard Journal of Pediatric published Feb. 20, 2012, that quoted the study did conclude that hormone blockers are highly recommended, but that HRT and other transition related treatments should be delayed until well into the teen years, to give the child maximum time to make the right decisions about themselves.

That article tries to advocate that parents should be comfortable with children exploring questions of gender without leaping to specific conclusions.

The study and the related article are both available online free to read if you so wish.

Study URL: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2012/02/15/peds.2011-1804.full.pdf+html

Article URL: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/129/3/571.full

[Guest KimberlyF]

Real Clear Politics is an aggregate site. It has info from each political party on each issue given time. The founders have a right lean, but there are many links to HuffPo, and they were one of the sites that were given copies of all of Obama's speeches in advance when he was running for President because they have a good reputation from most in the industry. And most people will disagree with about half the articles.

Anyway, that second link is pretty informative as it also fits right in with everything else on the subject. I'm assuming this one is O k with you Liz, since you posted the link?

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/129/3/571.full

"Cross-gender behavior in children has been known for many years. Even in the Child Behavior Check List3 developed by Achenbach in the 1970s there are 2 gender questions for parents to complete. Mothers reported that 2% to 4% of boys and 5% to 10% of girls of a nonclinical sample between the ages of 4 and 18 behaved as the opposite gender from time to time. Less frequently, these mothers reported that their children wished to be the opposite gender. Using the Youth Self Report,4 5% to 13% of teenage boys and 20% to 26% of teenage girls of a nonclinical sample reported cross-gender behavior. Two percent to 5% of boys and 15% to 16% of girls reported sometimes desiring to be the opposite gender. In spite of this relatively high rate of cross-gender behavior, very few patients have presented for evaluation and treatment even in countries such as the Netherlands where there is a well-established formal program for treatment.5 The prevalence there is of the order of 0.01% (1 in 10 000–30 000). Therefore, a lot of children seem to be experimenting with cross-gender behavior, but very few are following through to request gender change as they mature."

[Guest April Kristie]

Hi ladies and gents, I too read the article, I was less than pleased by this freelance writer. You can go to her site :heatherWilhelm.com and read other articles she wrote, which have nothing to do with gender issues. I decided to write ack to her, I am troubled bupy what she said and how she said it. I am no writer and my English can sometimes be lacking, however I think I got my points across. For if there is one thing I am very aquainted with us being a Transgender human being.

Here is what I wrote to her:

Ms. Wilhelm,

In your article, were you merely following the medias circus of events surrounding the Transgender movement? Concentrating on children to draw empathy out of the "regular" folk, who if anything need to understand where we as the Transgender group are coming from. How this birth defect occurs and how the individual is forced to deal with the results of this occurrence, you did every parent who has had to wrestle with this issue a disservice. Imagine the father whom has a first son,who dreams of his boy in a positive light, he throws male toys at him, blue clothing, and of course wants nothing but a good life experience for the child. The child won't play with those toys, he doesn't like blue, prefers his sisters dolls. Then, one day in his little voice says, " mommie I am a girl". What are these parents to do? Pray to the Transgender God? Doesn't that sound ludicrous? We are all children of the maker, so many people in this world are searching for who they are, some of us have to do it by first realigning our gender, before we can grow into the social role where we feel it is right for us.

First, the Negro took racial matters into their own hands and gained respect for who they really are, not colored but African Americans. Then the gay men took matters to the streets to gain equality and respect! They too succeeded. As Transgender humans we may be but a small percentage of the population, but we too deserve to live our lives as we see fit, and to do so without ridicule or petty articles supposing that this movement is related to some facetious deity.

We are proud to be who we are, just as you are proud to be you. Just a hundred years ago women did not even vote! But they fought for it, and things changed. We as a group are trying to educate, inform, and show by example how we fit into this society. We are an intelligent, highly motivated group that has had enough with violence towards us, and a very unfortunate suicide rate to boot. We as people need to flourish, just like anyone else, this is still a free country Ms. Wilhelm. Please open your eyes to the new road opening up in front of us, or get out of the way.

Partly due to Evolution I am April Kristie

[Guest LizMarie]

The article you reference, Kimberly, deals with gender nonconforming children, which is a much broader set than those children affirmatively diagnosed as gender dysphoric. Since I assume you know this, I can only conclude that your obfuscation is deliberate. Given that, I have no desire to continue to communicate with you at all on this topic.