Religious Colleges Allowed to Discriminate; Granted Title IX Exemptions

[Carolyn Marie]

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/07/25/2-christian-colleges-win-title-ix-exemptions-give-them-right-expel-transgender#sthash.1OpCjB7r.dpbs

I suppose the best thing is for college bound trans students to avoid such colleges. Why put yourself through it?

Carolyn Marie

[Ravin]

I think the problem comes in when a student either a. hasn't figured themselves out yet when they head off to school, or b. is deeply closeted or in self-denial because of family pressures--something likely for many with the background that would lead to choosing these schools in the first place.

[VickySGV]

A problem that I have encountered several times, and not only with Trans* folk is that other Colleges in the public and non religious sectors will not allow the transfer of credits from most of the "Christian" Colleges involved in this type of situation, and while OK with leaving the college, the students virtually start over on their college careers.

[Drea]

In my experience any college transfer, EVEN WHEN CREDITS ARE TRANSFERRED, is that the person is set back by a year or two because of the new colleges specific rules and pre-requisites.

I know of only one state that acted to prevent this when transferring between county college and state college or between state colleges.

[Guest Sarah Faith]

In my experience any college transfer, EVEN WHEN CREDITS ARE TRANSFERRED, is that the person is set back by a year or two because of the new colleges specific rules and pre-requisites.

I know of only one state that acted to prevent this when transferring between county college and state college or between state colleges.

College do tend to have certain rules when it comes to transferred Credits. My previous college was a community college and my current college did actually have certain rules in regards to getting the credits fully transferred. You're also correct in that each college tends to have different core requirements for graduation. My friend who is now an Electric Engineer ended up taking far longer through college because he transferred 3 times, It ended up taking him 8 years to finish his bachelors/masters program. So I would say you're pretty correct on your statement.

In my case I only took about 1 semester worth of classes before and only about 66% of my credits transferred over to count towards my general requirements.

[JJ]

My experience has been totally different. I knew people who transferred between colleges with no loss of credits but none who transferred from a religious college to a non-religious one. Actually the career counselors suggested my daughter attend her first year at a smaller school and transferring to the larger university that was recruiting after her freshman or sophmore year. It was encouraged because we came from a small area and they felt that it would be overwhelming to have classes bigger than the population of the school she graduated from. I would be surprised that people whose job it is to help someone plan the best course for their education would tell them to do something that would cause such an expensive time loss.

Also in my experience some religious colleges and universities are seen as equal or in some fields superior to public colleges and universities and I know of people who transferred from SMU, TSU and Baylor to Texas Tech and UT with no loss of credit hours. Of course of someone changed majors or was unwise in course choices it could happen.

Some of the smaller or more fundamentalist schools could certainly pose problems however.

Johnny

[Guest Sarah Faith]

My experience has been totally different. I knew people who transferred between colleges with no loss of credits but none who transferred from a religious college to a non-religious one. Actually the career counselors suggested my daughter attend her first year at a smaller school and transferring to the larger university that was recruiting after her freshman or sophmore year. It was encouraged because we came from a small area and they felt that it would be overwhelming to have classes bigger than the population of the school she graduated from. I would be surprised that people whose job it is to help someone plan the best course for their education would tell them to do something that would cause such an expensive time loss.

Also in my experience some religious colleges and universities are seen as equal or in some fields superior to public colleges and universities and I know of people who transferred from SMU, TSU and Baylor to Texas Tech and UT with no loss of credit hours. Of course of someone changed majors or was unwise in course choices it could happen.

Some of the smaller or more fundamentalist schools could certainly pose problems however.

Johnny

College can accept or reject credit transfers at their discretion, there are ways to appeal those decisions but they largely are not regulated on what they must or must not do on a national level. My college will completely accept credits and degrees from community colleges they have an agreement with, and also many community colleges in a handful of western states.. But outside of that it's entirely on a course per course basis, which is why they only accepted 66% of my credits.. Which is why if you are doing a 2 year degree to quickly transfer and continue in a 4 year college to get Junior status you really are limited in your school choices.

[Guest LizMarie]

People choose these colleges because they are religious and because they've found acceptance at their home churches. Unfortunately, acceptance in one church does not yet guarantee in all churches of the same denomination, so it becomes necessary now for parents of trans students to screen colleges not just for the usual factors but for outright bigotry towards their children. In the past in the United States we have barred discrimination on religious grounds when it was directed at someone due to their intrinsic characteristics. The religious right, in demanding these exemptions, is harkening back to the 1950s when the "curse of Ham" was the biblical justification for discriminating against blacks.

[Charlize]

My wife's credits from a local community college were fully accepted by the University of Pennsylvania. It was great for us as the cost per credit was huge. Penn as an Ivy League school was 4 to 5 times as expensive. Her BSRN was a "bargain". The world of religious schools is beyond me. I am amazed at the discrimination that seems to be allowed within religious organizations. While i certainly believe in the freedom of religion i don't believe and religion should be free to act outside of public laws and moral requirements. (just my views)

Hugs,

Charlize

[Guest ashleynikole]

The religious right, in demanding these exemptions, is harkening back to the 1950s when the "curse of Ham" was the biblical justification for discriminating against blacks.

Thanks Liz. I've been looking for information on what scriptures were used to justify discrimination and judgement of blacks and now I can refine my search in Google more. I like to use examples of how Christians used to say people with cerebral palsy and downs syndrome were just demon possessed. Im sure somewhere in America, people are still saying that but for the most part, medical science has proven that wrong...lol.

God bless

Ashley

[JJ]

In high school I had a friend who was devastated to discover she had developed epilepsy. Not because of the impact the disease would have physically but because at that time she was forbidden to marry or have children in some statees and her fundamentalist church condemned her-and her family by inference - as demon possessed.

It isn't Christianity that is at fault-nowhere in the words of Jesus are these condemnations made-in fact his real anger was reserved for the money changers who don't seem to bother the fundamentalists much. It is people using and twisting their religion to act out their own fears and discomforts.

Nor is Christianity alone in that. I am a very spiritual person on a deep level and have always been offended by those who suborn the creative and good force in the universe to their own ends and prejudices. In my book it is one of the greatest evils because it turns people away from the truth. I have known true Christians and truly good people who were deeply religious. But sadly their voices and example seem to get lost in the shrieks of the far less Godly who claim to speak in Gods name.

The good news is that the media is increasingly exposing their bigotry and ignorance for what it is and as we come to know more and more about ourselves and others acceptance is rapidly growing. It was a far different world just a few decades ago and people used to brag about what they would be ashamed to murmur now.

There will always be places like some of the religious schools that will be refuges for the bigots and their narrow views but nobody is forced to attend them. If I visit your house I should abide by your rules. I don't have a problem with that. Unless they are receiving public funds-and there I draw the line. It is asking me to fund harm to myself or participate in a religion with which I disagree. I also don't support political activity by religious groups. That's like trying to impose your rules outside your house. Sometimes it seems like the fundamentalists want separation of church and state when it comes to their rights but not when it comes to mine but that's another topic.

Johnny

[Guest LizMarie]

I'm sorry, JJ, but I'm going to cite the "No True Scotsman" fallacy here. The people who do this are just as "Christian" as any other group. Who are we to deny them this label? And there are large groups of them, such as the Southern Baptist Convention, which has historically been on the wrong side of so many issues that it's laughable, yet they continue with their narrow minded views until they become so embarrassed decades later that they finally drop those positions.

Rather than claim they are not Christian, I simply would rather point to those who exemplify the sort of Christian that I hope others can be. And I do specifically label these people as "radical, right wing, religious extremists" as a specific term which is 100% accurate. They are radical in that they are outside the mainstream of US society. They are right wing by their own admission. They are extremists in their seeking to deny basic human rights to other groups of individuals.

[JJ]

You are right that those groups have the right to label themselves any way they wish-as anyone does. But they don't meet my criteria for how a Christian behaves toward others or what I have read in my bible. I'm pretty familiar with them having been raised Church of Christ and then when my mother remarried Southern Baptist-forced to attend each at least twice a week. I never believed their views-got more than one severe punishment for arguing with my Sunday School teachers-my great uncle whose yard adjoined ours was an elder iin the church and heard everything I did. I disputed the Southern Baptists too. My step father forced me to attend but was liberal himself and never punished me for standing up to them. He would never speak of why he forced us to attend as long as we were under his roof since he clearly didn't really accept their bigotry about race and LGBT though the latter phrase and group identity was unknown then.

Anyway as I said they aren't true to the spirit of Christianity in my book BUT I am not in theirs either and have no right to claim free speech for myself unless I accord it to them including the right to spread their message. As long as they also respect my rights-and for me there is the rub.

Luckily for me I found a Methodist church here and it was the first place I was not only accepted but embraced as I transitioned. However I would NOT encourage my granddaughter to attend SMU because of it.

Johnny

[Guest LizMarie]

And... this ain't over, folks. The Department of Justice is evaluating whether the George Fox University is violating federal housing law. (They were granted an exemption from educational institution requirements under Title IX, a separate law.)

http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/18606/

[Carolyn Marie]

Governmental regulations. An oxymoron if ever there was one (and yes, I was from the government, and I was always there to help. ).

Carolyn Marie