Street Harasment Women Face: Transitioning Into A Dangerous place

[Guest]

Here is a news piece featuring a hidden camera and the street harassment that women face, as well as several other accounts and stories.

http://www.upworthy.com/a-woman-wore-a-hidden-camera-to-show-how-many-times-in-a-day-she-gets-harassed-argh?c=ag

While not something that is going to stop me from transitioning, the fact that I'll likely have to deal with these types of people is scary. It along with related societal thing are a big part of my anxiety with the process. I've already had to start dealing with street harassment a few times that I've been out in NYC as myself. To compound the fear I don't even feel I could call them out on it, as they advocate in the video, for fear of revealing myself as trans* and facing even greater danger. At the end of the day I just want people to be able to go about their lives and be happy.

[Guest sweetcharlene41]

Here is a news piece featuring a hidden camera and the street harassment that women face, as well as several other accounts and stories.

http://www.upworthy.com/a-woman-wore-a-hidden-camera-to-show-how-many-times-in-a-day-she-gets-harassed-argh?c=ag

While not something that is going to stop me from transitioning, the fact that I'll likely have to deal with these types of people is scary. It along with related societal thing are a big part of my anxiety with the process. I've already had to start dealing with street harassment a few times that I've been out in NYC as myself. To compound the fear I don't even feel I could call them out on it, as they advocate in the video, for fear of revealing myself as trans* and facing even greater danger. At the end of the day I just want people to be able to go about their lives and be happy.

Unfortunately, this has been going on for years, when I was a kid, growing up in NY, i'd pass construction site, men would be wolf whistling and cat calling at beautiful, unfortunately, it's never going to stop,most men are dogs, so I guess you'll have to say, at least i look good and keep going. love ya sweet charlene

[JJ]

When I approved this reply I decided to let it ride awhile but I do take exception to it. And making derogatory blanket statements about all men hurts and offends the males who are here as well.

Yes there are some men who do wolf whistle and cat call. Who think it is not only an acceptable but even a desired expression of their male admiration. They have no clue how demeaning and unacceptable it is because they are part of a subculture where that is not only the norm but expected. I have also known many women who expected and enjoyed it. Who walked by construction sites when they needed an ego boost or wanted to feel sexy and beautiful. I don't condone or agree with it but that is just how they are made. And neither those men or those women exemplify the group

In my family going back generations I would stake my life none of the men ever wolf whistled at a strange woman or catcalled either. Neither did any of their friends . There were among those friends men who were "ladies men" who pursued women but not in ways that were harassment. If any man had engaged in that kind of behavior he would be sanctioned by the group-and if it persisted I'm sure he would have been excluded. I have known many many men with many faults but very few who harassed women in that way.

I myself did sometimes run into them. When I was young men used to stop me all the time to take a pic or speak to me. I learned how to stop it and how to prevent it. What triggered attention and what didn't. I think sometimes transwomen are particularly at risk because they are just learning the signals and sometimes come across as available and flirtatious when they only mean to be feminine. That can lead to mixed signals and harassment or unwanted attention. I do not condone that attention and understand from living female for decades how demeaning it feels but that is still the reality. It can make transitioning more difficult for transwomen because though they are a very small minority the bad guys are out there and getting the signals wrong can cause big problems. The men are still wrong period.

So I strongly disagree all men are dogs-you can't judge half the population based on the visible behavior of a few rather bad or lower class guys and ignore the thousands of encounters with men who don't engage in negative behavior. It's like saying all women are manipulative whores because some sleep with any man who can do something for them. It's something that happens about as frequently as men catcalling etc in my experience-I've seen it happen with about the same frequency by the way. We are all complex and individual -even our culture and expectations are way too diverse to judge the whole on the basis of the actions of a few.

There are bad men and good men. There are bad women and good women. I'll judge each as individuals-as I want to be judged myself.

Johnny

[Carolyn Marie]

Johnny, I agree that it is not right to categorize an entire segment of the population as being one way or another, or being guilty of the sins of a few.

I have seen the behavior noted in the video, on the street and elsewhere, but I agree that its not commonplace (at least where I've been). People can be rude and crude, and that is true of both men and women. Attitudes and behaviors change over time, and I think things are better now than they were 20 or 30 years ago. But I'm no expert, and I don't hang out at construction sites or on busy sidewalks enough to claim any expertise. I didn't do such things in the old days, and none of my friends did.

I don't agree that women should call out those aggressive and rude men. Ignoring them is the best thing to do, IMO. Why invite trouble?

Carolyn Marie

[Guest Amanda M]

Have to say, I agree with JJ.,

Please bear in mind that men (in a sexual sense) react to visual stimulus more than anything else. Howver most of us, in public situations, do not feel the need to be crude or macho. I may see a pretty girl walking along in a very short skirt, and I may think she looks fabulous. I am allowed to do that, and I am not going to be rude, macho or aggressive to her. When men do behave like that, it is most often an expression of their personal insecurity as a man, and away of showing their virility to the other gorillas in the area.

Of course women should not be judged by their dress, but the fact is that if you wear a short skirt in areas where the neaderthals hang out, you are -like it or not, whether it should be or not - going to provoke an often vocal reaction. I don't condone it, I hate it. Howver that it is the way it is.

Appopriate dress for the place goes a long way towards minimizing unwanted attention. Whether that is morally right or wrong is another issue. It is simply a fact of living in our society.

[Guest NeutraLee]

Have to say, I agree with JJ.,

Please bear in mind that men (in a sexual sense) react to visual stimulus more than anything else. Howver most of us, in public situations, do not feel the need to be crude or macho. I may see a pretty girl walking along in a very short skirt, and I may think she looks fabulous. I am allowed to do that, and I am not going to be rude, macho or aggressive to her. When men do behave like that, it is most often an expression of their personal insecurity as a man, and away of showing their virility to the other gorillas in the area.

Of course women should not be judged by their dress, but the fact is that if you wear a short skirt in areas where the neaderthals hang out, you are -like it or not, whether it should be or not - going to provoke an often vocal reaction. I don't condone it, I hate it. Howver that it is the way it is.

Appopriate dress for the place goes a long way towards minimizing unwanted attention. Whether that is morally right or wrong is another issue. It is simply a fact of living in our society.

And what, exactly, is appropriate dress? Just the "right" amount of femininity. Not too much, not too little. I know women get those comments when dressed in short skirts and plunging necklines. This video talks about that.

But they also get comments when they're dressed in straight jeans, plain shirts, and ball caps. I've gotten a lot of those over the years.

There seems to be a formula for minimal harassment -- look either completely like a man or completely like an entirely generic middle-aged cis woman. That is a very small, confining box people are trying to put us in.

[Guest Amanda M]

What is appropriate dress? Far be it from me to say. I think that, quite simply, some women do dress to provoke, others dress provocatively because they believe that they have every right to do so - and indeed they have.

My point is this. Most of us are grown ups, and most of us understand that many males think with the organ between their legs rather than the one between their ears.

Dress as you like, and if you know the likely consequences, take the responsibility of accepting them. I know that on some moral level, it should not be that way, but biology and poor manners are difficult to remove from our lives. I wish it was otherwise.