Study Shows Good Results In Teens Treated With Puberty Blockers

[Carolyn Marie]

This is a peer reviewed study published in the journal Pediatrics, and I think will be an important milestone in the treatment of juvenile gender dysphoria.

http://www.2minutemedicine.com/puberty-suppression-linked-to-improved-well-being-in-transgender-youth/

Carolyn Marie

[VickySGV]

At SCC we had Dr. Johanna Olsen from Los Angeles Children's Hospital giving one of the sessions on the subject of puberty blockers and cross sex hormones for adolescents, and this was one study she cited, as well as the information that L.A.C.H. is developing from its own 300+ patients. Forum rules will not allow me to quote "Dr. Jo" verbatim on her opinion of those who wish to deny this type of treatment to young people in this age range. Suffice it to say she is ultra-passionate on the subject. L.A.C.H. is in the process of evaluating a series of factors over the next few years, including school performance, and other social performance issues as well.

[Drea]

And about the non-gender conforming kids who aren't really trans?

Sure it improves well being of transgender youth, but since the majority of pre-pubescent that are gender non-conforming aren't trans according to other studies, what does it mean for them?

Why are trans people out there trying to convert gay people into trans? Especially when such action based upon gender non-conformity is about enforcing conformity by insisting they must be the opposite gender?

[VickySGV]

I missed some of Dr. Olsen's second presentation on pre-pubescent gender variant youngsters, but the general rule included in her topic on the use of puberty blockers, is to let the kids be their own perceived identities as long as it benefits their social and educational developments. The children at some point make discoveries of their identities that need to be listened to, and as much as possible the child is given the ability to choose the puberty blockers AS THEY BEGIN ACTUAL PUBERTY, base on medical monitoring. A child who wants to experience birth gender puberty is going to call that shot, and like those of us at older ages who get HRT, it takes only a short while to know about the "rightness" of going that way. Even if they go for natal puberty though it would not require hard and final behavior in the birth gender. An "I don't know let me try_____" on the child's part is a valid response. The good child gender treatment centers are doing their damnedest to listen to the children and support them whithout shoving them into a pigeon hole for life.

[Carolyn Marie]

.

Why are trans people out there trying to convert gay people into trans? Especially when such action based upon gender non-conformity is about enforcing conformity by insisting they must be the opposite gender?

How you took this away from the study is mystifying to me. I've met a lot of trans folk in my travels. I've yet to meet one who indicated a desire to "convert" anyone, gay or straight, into a trans person. I didn't know that was possible, even with children, but comments like yours will certainly be picked up by those who desire to foster fear that such is our "agenda.".

Carolyn Marie

[Drea]

.I applied simple logic.
The method as listed in the study abstract was based upon "55 young transgender adults". Key word being adults. Trans adults for whom hormone suppression was used. It was not based upon 55 pre-pubescent gender non-conforming children who followed into adulthood.

By focusing on the adults the study has selected a population that quite logically would have benefited from hormone blockers. Therefore the results were quite predictable.

There is a common logical fallacy many trans people tend to make assumptions about. The fallacy is that because they knew young that every gender non-conforming youth must in fact be trans.

WPATH standards of car for trans highlight this logical fallacy by pointing out several studies that make it very clear that among pre-pubescent children the majority do not grow up as trans. If I foster fear by pointing out the logical fallacy? I guess WPATH if fostering fear too.

I had read a blog by a gay man who expressed how as a child he preferred stereotypical girl things, liked barbies, wore dress. As an adult he still likes "feminine" things. His point was that he could have easily been pushed into transition in the sam way there were attempts to cure gays of being gay in the past. That both are ways of enforcing gender stereotypes.

I don't think I have run into anyone who wishes to cause harm but I have certainly encountered enough trans people who make that logical error that gender non-conforming youth, must be trans as well as older trans that are so motivated to help teens transition when it is so much better for them with no regard for what the actual data shows and even willful denial of the studies that show that the majority of gender non-conforming kids end up growing up non-trans using logic that they must just be suppressing it or conforming strictly cause of social pressure. An odd premise since the majority who aren't trans end up identifying as gay.

[Guest Ky_Ki]

.

Why are trans people out there trying to convert gay people into trans? Especially when such action based upon gender non-conformity is about enforcing conformity by insisting they must be the opposite gender?

How you took this away from the study is mystifying to me. I've met a lot of trans folk in my travels. I've yet to meet one who indicated a desire to "convert" anyone, gay or straight, into a trans person. I didn't know that was possible, even with children, but comments like yours will certainly be picked up by those who desire to foster fear that such is our "agenda.".

Carolyn Marie

I applied simple logic.

The method as listed in the study abstract was based upon "55 young transgender adults". Key word being adults. Trans adults for whom hormone suppression was used. It was not based upon 55 pre-pubescent gender non-conforming children who followed into adulthood.

By focusing on the adults the study has selected a population that quite logically would have benefited from hormone blockers. Therefore the results were quite predictable.

There is a common logical fallacy many trans people tend to make assumptions about. The fallacy is that because they knew young that every gender non-conforming youth must in fact be trans.

WPATH standards of car for trans highlight this logical fallacy by pointing out several studies that make it very clear that among pre-pubescent children the majority do not grow up as trans. If I foster fear by pointing out the logical fallacy? I guess WPATH if fostering fear too.

I had read a blog by a gay man who expressed how as a child he preferred stereotypical girl things, liked barbies, wore dress. As an adult he still likes "feminine" things. His point was that he could have easily been pushed into transition in the sam way there were attempts to cure gays of being gay in the past. That both are ways of enforcing gender stereotypes.

I don't think I have run into anyone who wishes to cause harm but I have certainly encountered enough trans people who make that logical error that gender non-conforming youth, must be trans as well as older trans that are so motivated to help teens transition when it is so much better for them with no regard for what the actual data shows and even willful denial of the studies that show that the majority of gender non-conforming kids end up growing up non-trans using logic that they must just be suppressing it or conforming strictly cause of social pressure. An odd premise since the majority who aren't trans end up identifying as gay.

Very wisely said, while I think others would say that these kids can "opt out" at any time and revert back to their birth gender I think the reality would be in many cases that they might feel pressured to continue in transition even if (and that's a pretty big if) those around them say it's ok not to. I think I've used the example of the star sports player that continues playing sports even though he doesn't want to, because he feels if he'd stop he'd be letting others down. There is a risk of that kind of situation happening.

[Carolyn Marie]

.The method as listed in the study abstract was based upon "55 young transgender adults". Key word being adults. Trans adults for whom hormone suppression was used. It was not based upon 55 pre-pubescent gender non-conforming children who followed into adulthood.

By focusing on the adults the study has selected a population that quite logically would have benefited from hormone blockers. Therefore the results were quite predictable. .

You are incorrect about how the study was conducted, Drea. The study followed 55 prepubescent children and evaluated them three times; once before blockers were administered, once after hormones were started (approx age 17) and once after GRS (approx age 21). The study found that psychologically, physically and in terms of social development, all showed marked improvements after GRS.

All of the children in this study were clearly provided top notch psychological and medical care. You strongly imply that somehow, the transgender community influenced the doctors, parents and children to undertake life altering medical treatment that they would not have done without such influence.

I don't believe that hormones should be administered to children under the age of 17, but I certainly don't believe that the fact some are is attributable to the coercive influence of an all-powerful "community." We can't even agree on the adjectives to be used to describe ourselves; how the hell would we get together to figure out how to change gay children into trans children?

Carolyn Marie

[Guest Ky_Ki]

I don't think anyone is saying that the trans community is consciously trying to convert gay kids to trans, rather that in its general assumption that all children who show a hint of gender variance MUST be transgender and treated respectively that is effectively what could end up happening.

[JJ]

Not all therapists are competent to be sure but any ethical and competent therapist would NOT make an assumption that gender variance equates with being transsexual.

With anything there will be some bad eggs and bad results-just the nature of this huge and complex society-but in the end studies like this help competent professionals determine the best course in the event a child does fit the diagnosis or else buy time for a correct diagnosis to be made without the damage that puberty can do to a transsexual teen. Given the suicide rate for trans teens we need to be as proactive and informed as possible.

Johnny

[Drea]

First the link here is to an article about a study. What is stated in the article is an interpretation of the study. Within the article there is a link which brings up an abstract. With subscription one can get the full study. I don't have a subscription or I would look at the study itself.

Barring that I looked at the abstract which are at least words, in most cases by the study author.

The article says

This study evaluated Dutch youth with GD before, during, and after treatment with GnRHa, CSH, and GRS, and assessed changes in body image satisfaction,

And that sure makes it sounds like the study follows the youth, but lets see what the study author(s) say in the abstract/

METHODS: A total of 55 young transgender adults (22 transwomen and 33 transmen) who had received puberty suppression during adolescence were assessed 3 times: before the start of puberty suppression (mean age, 13.6 years), when cross-sex hormones were introduced (mean age, 16.7 years), and at least 1 year after gender reassignment surgery (mean age, 20.7 years).

The description for the method starts out by referencing "55 young transgender adults...". It doesn't start saying "55 pre-pubescent transgender youths were followed into adulthood...". One might be temped to label this semantics, but it isn't. It is a very clear distinction this is in fact a very important distinction that would have been made.

There are other clues as to this being selection of adults in which prior evaluations were reviewed compared to a selection of transgender youths who were followed over time. First it appears 100% of the participants had hormones and SRS. Thus none dropped out, none opted not to have surgery. This seems to be a pretty unusual group within the transgender community if they were selected as pre-pubescent entering into treatment. It also would mean zero dropped out which would have been a huge finding in itself, but it is not being mentioned. It seems pretty clear this is a select group of transgender folks, that the study authors selected study group was those at the end of the treatment period, not ones entering treatment. Thus the fact that all proceeded onto hormones and surgery in particular, the outcome makes sense.

So as I said, the study conclusion are valid for what they are. The study outcome seems a no-brainer to me. For those who have had SRS after the amount of evaluation and support these individuals had leading up to that, it is quite logical they would have benefitted from puberty blockers.

Now maybe, the particular clinic does a great deal of screening before accepting anyone for treatment, only focuses on the true transsexual (type VI in the old classification scale) and thus these 55 individuals represent 100% if youths in that clinic. There isn't enough information to judge that.

You strongly imply that somehow, the transgender community influenced the doctors, parents and children to undertake life altering medical treatment that they would not have done without such influence.

In this study? I think nothing I have said about this study reflects upon choices of the individuals involved. Far as I can tell the conclusions the study authors provide is fair within the boundaries of their research.

I am highlighting the logical fallacy involved in assuming this study findings support the idea that administering hormones to gender non-conforming youth has no potential for harm beyond normal medical risks to such young. That such is as faulty as the logic saying all gender non-confirming youth are trans because all trans knew when they were young.

I don't disagree that such blockers would be beneficial for ones who are really trans but again studies referenced in the WPATH SOC show that the majority of gender non-conforming pre-pubescent children grow up to not be trans. So just how does one identify the trans from the person who will grow out of it or who is gay instead of trans?

I also expressed as a matter of creating some food for thought that imposing gender conformance comes in two forms. There is the "you were born a boy so stop acting like a girl" attempt and then there is the "you act like a girl therefore you must be a girl".

While trans people are quick to recognize the harm of the first type of enforced conformance, that (no implication here, I am stating it) there are trans people, because they are in many instances altering their body and social role to be in conformance with their gender feeling tend not to see the latter as harmful. When they see it stated, like I have here the potential is recognized but I think it tends to be a blind spot.

I also feel parents of gender non-conforming children want answers, want a solution, and could find the idea that their child really is the other gender more comforting in some cases rather than the child being gay or just being odd by not adhering to social norms.

I am sure stepping back nearly everyone in the trans community would recognize and acknowledge that forcing gender conformity in any form is bad.

don't think anyone is saying that the trans community is consciously trying to convert gay kids to trans, rather that in its general assumption that all children who show a hint of gender variance MUST be transgender and treated respectively that is effectively what could end up happening.

Exactly Kira. I don't think there is intent. Just invalid logic and perhaps a blind spot in not recognizing that not all gender non-conforming individuals are transgender.

[Guest KimberlyF]

This is nothing new. Right in line with all the other studies. It seems obvious they had their results and worked backwards. And waiting till a bit into puberty has started before starting blockers seems to drastically improve the stats of eliminating those kids who self-ID as having dysphoria and end up being gay.