Pitch vs Normal-Sounding

[Guest Astrosmurf]

Can anyone please help me with this?

analysisng wave files on Praat, I can easily get my voice up into female pitch now. The problem is that it doesn't sound at all normal, it sounds too falsetto and weak. When I try to lower it slightly and talk more normally, I end up in the gender-ambiguous range or back in the male range on the Hz gender scale (145-ish). I keep trying, but it seems like I can only achieve one or the other.

What am I doing wrong here? What do I need to do? Do I have a natural key which I need to find and stay in? Do I just keep practicing in that same falsetto pitch (feminine range) until it somehow comes right?

Thanks

[Charlize]

If you are anything like me any recording of my voice "isn't me". I have always hated my voice in recordings. I can only imagine getting accustomed to a new one. Have you asked a friend what they think, or perhaps tried the new voice out on the phone or in the world? It is possible that you are doing better than you think.

Hugs,

Charlize

[Guest Raya]

I'm having the same problem.

I used to be able to get a decent high range singing, by practicing a lot and ignoring the horrible sound until I got it, now I'm trying again but age and smoking (quit 3 wks ago) haven't helped.

What I do is keep singing high female vocals and try to make a somewhat pleasant sound, then drop down into a range I can actually work. Dianna Krall has a beautiful feminine voice in a doable range. So far, in her range (contralto?) I can sound somewhat right.

So, that helps me a little, but I really really want to work on my voice more

[Guest Astrosmurf]

Thanks Charlize and Tracy,

I'll try out both your suggestions. I was actually thinking of having a go on the phone yesterday, there's a number you can dial first here which makes the call untraceable, lol. I'm too embarrassed to ask a friend's opinion - hearing myself speaking in that strange, strained way freaks even me out, but perhaps you're right, Charlize, perhaps it just takes a lot of getting used to. I suppose I take for granted just how familiar my usual voice is to me.

I did better towards the end of my practice yesterday when I remembered to tighten my voice box and pull in my Adam's apple, like squeezing my windpipe so it cuts of the resonance completely and I'm talking as far back in my neck as I can and the sound's all up in my head. But that's hard to hold for long. My voice gives out by the time I count to ten, but it does sound better. Still very high pitched though. Oh well, will just keep practicing.

[Guest LesleyAnne]

I can sing (didn't say well mind you) in a very female sounding voice, but talking is different for me, and it is very weird sounding. Kind of like when I used to have the boys (pre-orhi) and someone popped me in the nether region. Hi fractured squeal.....not pretty. People look at you funny that way.

I could really use a voice coach.

It's very hard to talk with people just shaking your head yes or no, or giving an expression you think fits the conversation. They think you're a airhead .

So many things to conquer

[tracy_j]

I find that I cannot really judge my own voice. I think most people are the same in this as you don't hear your voice realistically as there is a physical link through the body as well as the normal route through the air. I do find even recording it does not help much though.

I think the ideal approach is therapy with plenty of practice, ideally with a real audience.

In practice although I have never had therapy I do try to practice. I still mimic the sat nav as well lol. I am slowly finding that my voice is improving (or at least to me - sounds like it is) and is getting stronger. The main thing I have done is moved my voice from chest resonance to head resonance so sounding far less male. It does sound far less like me (how I was or am as male).

With talking to people, I think it is generally experience and practice. I have spoken, even chatted on occasion with other women but, I must admit, found it difficult as you may imagine, with a series of wispers, gestures and similar. I am happy though that those I have spoken to have just accepted things OK!

My experience just tells me to go out and communicate. It is amazing what the addition of a smile to things can do. The only way to get there is to do it and starting will never be easy.

The best way to natural speech in the absence of therapy seems to me to be to use it in conversation and not rely too heavily on technical ideas.

Tracy

[Guest Kayla Grace]

I second what Tracy says. Personally I think I screw up a ridiculous amount of times, though some employers have asked me if I've taken speech lessons, or I've been complimented on my voice being perfect.

I will say however that if you falsetto a male, and a female voice, you can see the reasonance in your chest area, and in your adam's apple. I just checked, and it doesn't seem to be a difference in the latter ... though I've been talking like this so I really have to try and make that male voice appear now. I'll also say that you have to change YOUR voice, instead of changing one that you've made up, if that makes sense. I think you get this already, but trying to imitate a barbie girl voice doesn't go very well. Practice some scales, and try out a few videos on Youtube

Stay Safe,

Kayla <3

[Guest]

It takes a lot of practice and I may be wrong and other can correct me buy I don't think a falsetto voice is the right way to achieve a good voice because it will not ressonate in a good way.

you can check ressonnance by saying "mmmm" and you should feel you lips or mouth vibrate.

My therapy was all about taking your male voice and raising little by little the pitch to female range.

I started at 110hz and i'm now at 155 - 200hz when not flexing any muscle and 170-210hz when stretching those muscle.

it's very slow (at least with the technique I used) but it give very good results. Unless I mesure it, I don't even realize I use another voice. It's my voice that's all.

other techniques that I know of that will add the the quality of your voice is :

use a softer voice. If you do it correctly not only it will strain your voice a lot less but it will remove almost all the male qualities in it.

Check "twang" on the internet. It's a singing technique. If you can do that in a very subtle way (so you do not sound strange) it can give a feminine and unique quality to the voice.

You can also use some muscle in your troat, the one you use to yawn to "open" your troat a little (not a lot like we do when yawning) and it will also help strain less your voice and give a feminine quality to it.

If you do all that with a specialist to help you it can give good result. There is a lot more techniques, a good specialist can use the right ones for you.

A good way to know if your voice is correct is to answer the phone with it, if the other person say madam, you on a good path .

[Guest Astrosmurf]

Hey, thanks so much, some really helpful suggestions there!

I've been practicing, and discovered I can get my voice up into female range better by lifting my whole voice box with the muscles I use to swallow. My Adam's apple almost totally disappears upwards and presses flat. Can't keep this going for too long though, but it's kind of a new direction/breakthrough.

I'm going to look up the twang thing, thanks Soliloque

I'll definately try the phone at some point ... Not confident enough yet though.

Been looking at Yeson again, and dreaming

[Drea]

What am I doing wrong here? What do I need to do? Do I have a natural key which I need to find and stay in? Do I just keep practicing in that same falsetto pitch (feminine range) until it somehow comes right?

First problem is you are worrying about pitch to begin with.

Female pitch range does not equate to sounding female. In fact pitch is the least relevant factor.

Most techniques to bring up pitch will tend to remove elements needed to sound female. This is where so many go wrong.

Focusing on pitch you might stumble on things that make a difference but when it comes down to it, mostly it isn't pitch.

Resonance should be the primary focus. Ignore pitch. If you work on resonance, which is approached by pretty much strangulating resonance and opening it out, you will find pitch will fall in line just fine.

The following link is good information. They are selling something, but in essence all the information is on the page is all you need. No secrets really.

http://heartcorps.com/journeys/voice.htm

The voices I have heard achieved using what is described there outclass any others I've heard.

[Guest Astrosmurf]

Hey, I checked out 'twang' -- thanks so much! It really cuts out the straining and makes it easier to talk at that higher range.

And thanks so much for the link Drea, just started reading it, sounds very helpful

[Drea]

And thanks so much for the link Drea, just started reading it, sounds very helpful

You are welcome. I can attest from personal experience this works well. The two finger thing feeling on your throat gives good feedback.

I would make an observation with regards to this section

Let's try an experiment to drive the point home. Put your finger of one hand on the top of your larynx, at the top of your Adam's apple. Place the fingers of your other hand at the very bottom of your larynx, below the Adam's apple. Now, speak aloud in your normal masculine voice. You will note that both the top AND bottom of the larynx vibrate almost equally as you speak.

Keeping your fingers in place, go into a falsetto and speak. You will note that there is hardly ANY vibration in either the top OR bottom! The exercises we are going to learn will allow you to create a voice that vibrates ONLY at the bottom and NOT at the top. This effectively cuts the part of the voice box used in half and thereby loses the lowest of the harmonics, leaving almost EXACTLY the same range of harmonics as a genetic female voice.

Note that they say vibrate only at the bottom and not at the top. This flies in the face of people saying you move it out of your chest into your head.

The key however is to effectively shorten the voice box to generate the correct sounding resonance.

In my experience doing the above I found that I could suppress the vibration on either the top or the bottom letting the other vibrate. With just one, either one voice comes off good. Thru the years I will actively switch which I suppress from word to word. It lets me get more tonal range.

The key trick, after going to falsetto suppressing both is opening one up and going lower in pitch. This is why I say pitch happens cause falsetto is higher pitch already although doesn't sound good. In practice if you are suppressing half the voicebox you can't get the pitch all the way down to where it was. The more you get it down and open it up with just one part vibrating the more natural it will sound and more feminine.

[Guest]

I understand the concept Drea but not really how what i'm supposed to do? It can't be the say ahem and such until the proper muscle is strong enough?

[Drea]

I understand the concept Drea but not really how what i'm supposed to do? It can't be the say ahem and such until the proper muscle is strong enough?

They talk about that in the link I provided. Almost half way down the page just after resonance there is another heading "Exercise" where they detail it. Unfortunately with just text the ability to describe is limited.

...as she says it does take lots and lots of practice. When you first try pushing down from falsetto it isn't going to sound pretty. The wicked witch voice as they describe, but that is just the start of opening things up....

With all that practice I should note something. While she speaks about going in and out, I think that is a talent she has. I think it I very hard to go in and out, and frankly till one is full time it is hard to get enough use to get it to stick. I found once I got there it is very hard to bring out old voice.

Thing is the practice doesn't have to be extreme, normal conversation suffices once you start getting there and don't sound like the wicked witch.

[Guest]

Wow, now I feel really stupid. For me the falsetto voice and the wicked witch voice is two very different things and I don't get how I'm supposed to find a female voice with all of this. I can do this wicked witch thing for a year but what is the goal? I already can do a really good wicked witch

I understand pitch isn't everything but the conveniant thing for me is that it's a mesurable goal. What is the mesurable goal with that technique? I don't want to sound like the wicked witch.