Prominent Voice Of The Religious Right Arrested In Underage Sex Sting

[Guest]

Prominent Voice of the Religious Right Arrested in Underage Sex Sting

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_12083195

Why is it that people who speak against LGBT people the loudest often have big secret's of their own. Ted Haggart screamed all the time about Gays yet had sex relations with a gay prostitute. Others are having affairs of all kinds. One senator outspoken against GLBT rights as morally wrong soilicited a male cop in an airport. Family groups against LGBT's claim to be the epidomy of morality while saying that we are not. We're suppossed to forgive their indescretions as only human but do they do that for us? Imagine that this man had access to children in his family organization. Probably more secrets to come out. Don't forget that the divorce rate for hetrosexuals is 50% so they aren't doing all that great with their straight family's. Yet we are told we are a threat to famiies and straight folks everywhere while they are not. Sounds like hypocracy to me. The truth is we don't threaten anyones family or their institutions. yet the religous right continues to throw stones at us when they aren't even rightous and without sin themselves. Go Figure! We're not the only ones in a closet. They have secrets too.

What are your thoughts?

Laura

[Guest Elizabeth K]

My brother-in-law is a Baptist minister, and was in a prominent Right Wing Born Again movement that was active on college campuses. He worked for this organization for thirty years. He is a convicted child molester. We in the family know this and it is NOT common knowledge.

The point is his own moral problems have led him to seek drastic solutions, and he turned to GOD. This was a good way to approach these problems, although I think he could have as easily turned to THERAPIST, instead. Now that he is 'cured' he spends all his time prostilizing to the rest of us sinners.

He was one of the ones downtown during Mardi Gras passing out leaflets telling people to turn to GOD, and sin no more. I guess catching beads and drinking beer is a sin. Nevermind that he drove in on a bus from a town 550 miles away and never teleponed us he was here. I guess he was afraid we'd offer him beer or show him some of the beads we caught.

My point is look very closely at what these people are really hidding in their personal life, what was it that has caused them so much guilt they have to tell us how to live OUR lives.

Just an opinion.

Lizzy

[Sally]

While I do consider myself a Christian, I do not use it to make others feel inferior, I use my compassion to try to make them feel better.

I do not raise a lot of money for my church - we work with habitat for humanity and I contribute to that - I give food to the food banks and homeless shelters but not to TV evangelist.

I have watched the Jim Bakers, jimmy Swaggerts, Robert Tiltons and Pat Haggarts doing everything that they preach against and in the words of Ray Stevens, "With ten thousand on his arm."

"Would Jesus wear a Rolex on his Television show?"

No, he would be arrested for vagrancy in most cities.

Probably turned away from the thousands of churches that bear his name - we don't really get the message and most don't want to.

Where is the profit, the cash, the political advancement in caring for your fellow man?

No real Christianity is hard, selfless and does not put you in a mansion or allow you to look down on or persecute anyone - where is the fun in that?

Remember when Oral Roberts had the unique fund raising campaign stating, "A 900 foot Jesus came to him in a vision and told him that he had to raise 8 million dollars or God would call him to heaven."

First - isn't that the true goal of a Christian. to go to heaven and be in the presence of God?

Second - does he have a giant 'Jesus meter' in the backyard to know how big the vision was and if it had only been 800 feet would he have ignored it?

Finally - I have never seen God as a cosmic extortionist!

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest Laura1977]

They deny themselves to drink beer and catch beads because they believe that that is what God wants of them, yet on the inside they are full of raging desires that they cannot control. I believe that Jesus would have called them whitewashed tombs.

I believe that Lizzy had something when she told us about her brother in law. They are consumed by guilt for their "sinful desires," so they try so hard to be righteous, and they tell everyone how righteous they are (they like to pray on street corners...). But if they were just to admit they have a problem and see a therapist, or if they were to just admit, "hey, I think I'm gay," and then have a normal gay relationship, they wouldn't be driven to such extreme acts out of some kind of desperation.

As an ex-christian who used to deny himself a lot of things that were "wrong," that's what I think.

[Guest Sakura_Stingray]

one small question...if h thinks breads mardi ras beer and whatnot is wrong(he brotherinlaw) why is he standing in a crowd of pushing and shoving people who would be too drunk to look at the fliers? the truth is whos who go against what they want make up reasons to be in the middle of what they are against to be closer to it -nods- some call it a test of will and some call it punishment but its realy desire -nods- religiouse people can be funny sometimes

[Guest]

I've never met a perfect pure person and i don't expect i ever will. It may shock you to know that i'm far from perfect myself . Certainly I have no right to judge anyone. Who does? If a minister or senator comes out as gay I have no problem with that. However when they stay in the closet and condemn others it drives me up a wall. Both Ted and the senator still scream that they aren't gay even now. Come out already.

Homophobia/Transphobia has a mob mentality that leads to witch hunts. It's the crowds storming the castle with pitchforks, torchs and nooses. It's so powerful it actually kept some of these guys in the closet themselves in a state of self-denial. People don't feel they fit unless they are homophobic. That's so sad. I've met gays that are transphobic and trans people that are homophobic. That's not really surprising either. This prejudice is deep and powerful and overhwelms all logic and reason. The good news is it can be fought when you seperate from the pack and listen to your heart. I've long suspected that if everyone who is LGBT ever came out there would be three times the numbers that we think there are now. The bottom line is if everyone became their true selves there wouldn't be any problem. In addition if everyone who wasn't "pure" withdrew we could get on with the more important issues affecting us and our planet. We're all in this together. Every LGBT person has suffered long enough.

Laura

[Guest Donna Jean]

I've long suspected that if everyone who is LGBT ever came out there would be three times the numbers that we think there are now. The bottom line is if everyone became their true selves there wouldn't be any problem. In addition if everyone who wasn't "pure" withdrew we could get on with the more important issues affecting us and our planet. We're all in this together. Every LGBT person has suffered long enough.

Laura

Amen, Laura......

Most all here that have been to therapy and accepted their true selves will attest to the fact of how the feelings change for the better. If everyone could accept themselves, then there would be a lot less hate...

Love

Donna Jean

[Guest Irielle]

We hate in others the things that we are most afraid of about ourselves. It's part of projection. These people who rant about gays, transexuals and others are very afraid that they might be a member of that group - whatever group(s) they are railing against. And they probably do belong to those group(s). But instead of being honest with who they are, accepting themselves and living their lives honestly, they repress those things and they get subverted and perverted into terrible things. I am never surprised when one of these pompous windbags gets hoisted on their own petard. It's just a question of when, not if.

The world gives back to everyone the reflection of their own face. When I see the terrible things these people are capable of doing to other people I know they are doing immense damage to themselves. I feel sad and sorry for them, that their lives are wasted, small and petty. I have zero sympathy for them and I grieve for their lost humanity. Instead of a heart they have a stone and they have no dreams, only nightmares. Unfortunately they want to drag the rest of us into the maelstrom of their twisted psyches.

We all have a dark side. Healthy people know this and are honest and open about it. That's how it loses its power over us. Let in the daylight and the shadows have no place to hide. It's part of being human. Suppression transforms a dark side into evil and that is what these people are. They are evil, vile and cruel and I mourn their victims. I dream of the day when there will be no more.

These people cannot be helped by anyone until they are willing to help themselves and that is a rarely seen trait. Denial is powerful. Hopefully we catch them early, before they have a chance to ruin the lives of others.

The best we can do is be who we are, accept ourselves and others honestly, and live in grace. Just my thoughts.

Iri

[Guest Leigh]

why is it that child molesters hide in the church? one of my best friends was molested as a child, and her molester is now very "religious" and he claims that he's been "cured"

BS..that's what i say...uhg.

[Guest]

Unfortunately molesters are often in positions of trust. There is also no place or support system they can turn to for help before the act if they wish to stop. Even a therpist would have to turn them in. They have one choice, jail and they won't be cured there. If society wish's to solve the problem they have to first offer help or some type of prevention program. The damage that molesters do is too awful not to address the cause. It's not enough to simply wait until they commit the act. Prevention is sorely needed to combat this sickness.

Laura

[Guest Elizabeth K]

My entire surviving family other than my side (I'm a black sheep - wait 'til they find out about the real me!) - both my sisters, their husbands and all their children (five boys - all but one is married and have children of their own)

ALL these people are radical Right Wing Born Again!

YIKES, they refused to let the kids go to public schools when they were young - sent them to special Christian Colleges, and generally protected them from the 'evil' world. The Boy Scouts were too liberal for them! I sent them children's story VHS movies at Christmas once (VHS - hummm - shows how long ago) and my sisters threw them in the trash - to much 'magic' in them. So they know nothing of the Star Wars series, nothing of the computer role playing world, nothing about (horrors) anything that has violence in it. They only listened to Chritian Rock (which ain't half bad really, now).

Yet, one of my nephews neglected his children, and allowed them to be unsupervised - and they burned down his house (fortunately were not hurt).

Another was caught smoking grass and was busted.

Another was kicked out of every organization and church group for being 'disrespectful to authority."

Of course most of them eventually turned out fairly well - we tend to overcome what our parents want to mould us into.

However, one of my sisters did run away with a man she met on the internet an we couldn't find her for a year (her husband still refuses to divorce her and she refuses to live with him - and my other sister and her husband constantly try to get them back together as a marriage is a contract with GOD).

And I mentioned already my Baptist Preacher b-in-l is a convicted child molester.

Okay enough - I have a disfunctional family outside of my own children (all MY kids are doing fantastic! hee hee - black sheep knows how to raise good kids!)

So the point? I haven't come out to them yet. I am not sure if my crazy sister and her child molesting husband , or my cheating sister and her right wing born again husband, will accept me.

Should be interesting. All three of my children, their spouses and their spouses families have accepted me with loving, open hearts.

However - the rest of my family? WOW

Good thing my parents are deceased! Good thing all my other family memebers are deceased - and I know they smile down on me and gossip - "wondered why the kid was so different!". I do have some cousins - hummmm.... as one of them is a FTM, it seems likely they will accept me. Hummm...

You wanna know what I think? Everyone hides something!

I REALLY wish it wasn't that way.

And I was living in Baton Rouge when Jimmy Swaggart got caught. It was just after the Ted and Tammy Bakker thing. I wasn't surprised. After all - I grew up in the deep south. Born Again is a BIG BUSINESS. My Aunt sent Oral Roberts a huge check after that "God Tole me" business. I suppose she wanted to go to heaven.

We REALLY do have a problem with 'Holier-Than-Thou" down here in the South. BUT as long as we can keep them out of elected or appointed government positions... I mean... REALLY... that won't happen? I mean GOD wouldn't let that happen would He? I mean..

PLEASE people! Keep these Christian Wrong out of government!

Do we want a world full of people like 'Jacob82b" of the one-hundred posts TOPIC telling us how to live?

LORD help us!

Just an opinion

Lizzy

[Sally]

Lizzy, you came from a dysfunctional family? NO!

I have been witness to way too many of the Christian Wrong, who have done for Christianity what AlQueda has done for Islam.

Laura has a very valid point about why we are feared and therefore a target.

I worked in a record store - for you younger people a record was a 12" vinyl platter carved with one spiral groove on each side - passing a small diamond tipped stylus through this groove would follow the variations in the walls and cause the stylus to move between the magnets at the other end of the cantilever and (Look it up) one of the guys I worked with was extremely homophobic - if he thought there was a homosexual in the store he might just run off to work in the back room so he wouldn't have to speak to them.

I got to work one day and he was very agitated, it seemed that the big bosses had decided that they wanted him to transfer to a different store with a fairly new staff - we were over staffed so someone was going.

He didn't mind changing stores, the new one was closer to his house - but they had a homosexual working there.

He changed stores to keep his job and as the summer ended we had stopped hearing from him very much until we had the Halloween Party for the three stores in town.

He arrived with the homosexual and his two friends, in a lovely dress with high heels, a wig and pantyhose - seems our homophob was now one of the two couples that had arrived - now I know why he was afraid, he knew and didn't want to admit it.

We all have gone through denial and it makes me wonder now about another friend who came over to me and pointed out a woman who he thought was a transsexual and he seemed to be scared of her.

Maybe I should tell him about me so he can transition and be happy?

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Lizzy, you came from a dysfunctional family? NO!

I have been witness to way too many of the Christian Wrong, who have done for Christianity what AlQueda has done for Islam.

Laura has a very valid point about why we are feared and therefore a target.

I worked in a record store - for you younger people a record was a 12" vinyl platter carved with one spiral groove on each side - passing a small diamond tipped stylus through this groove would follow the variations in the walls and cause the stylus to move between the magnets at the other end of the cantilever and (Look it up) one of the guys I worked with was extremely homophobic - if he thought there was a homosexual in the store he might just run off to work in the back room so he wouldn't have to speak to them.

I got to work one day and he was very agitated, it seemed that the big bosses had decided that they wanted him to transfer to a different store with a fairly new staff - we were over staffed so someone was going.

He didn't mind changing stores, the new one was closer to his house - but they had a homosexual working there.

He changed stores to keep his job and as the summer ended we had stopped hearing from him very much until we had the Halloween Party for the three stores in town.

He arrived with the homosexual and his two friends, in a lovely dress with high heels, a wig and pantyhose - seems our homophob was now one of the two couples that had arrived - now I know why he was afraid, he knew and didn't want to admit it.

We all have gone through denial and it makes me wonder now about another friend who came over to me and pointed out a woman who he thought was a transsexual and he seemed to be scared of her.

Maybe I should tell him about me so he can transition and be happy?

Love ya,

Sally

"... who have done for Christianity what AlQueda has done for Islam."

PERFECT!!!

Either of these two seeing anyone right now? Eapecially the one you said was named 'Dirk?'

Lizzy

[Guest CharliTo]

you know, that whole kinda stuff is what really makes me wish I finished up my psychology degree in college. I think there just needs to be a lot of case studies...but of course, i doubt any of those folks will concent to anything to have a case study done....