RLE countdown starts when?

[Katie Snow]

I`m awaiting the documents with Title and Name change to arrive so they can be signed and made legal.

now I`m a long way off from getting in to a Gender Identity Clinic here in the UK, I think it takes at least a year! and then you have to do a year of real life experience, and then you can go on the GRS waiting list (about 2 years long).

I`m wondering, since I really dont want to wait this long (who Would!?), that if I get my Name and documents changed Now, and live full time Now (I more or less do anyway!) that when it comes time to go to the GIC, I`ll have already done my RLE.

does anyone know if this counts at all, or do They start the RLE countdown timer so to speak? and it doesn`t matter that you`ve already been living and have all documents changed over long before this?

 

 

 

[Cyndee]

Hi Katie

  Most therapists will recognize the RLE from the time you begin living "full time" in your target gender. Full time "usually" involves legal name change and gender, presenting as your target gender 24/7/365 in your professional and personal life. Yes you can do these steps ahead of seeing a therapist, just be prepared to document your activities and show some evidence to them, especially if they are to write any surgical recommendation letter(s) per WPATH.

Good luck !

Cyndi -

 

[Charlize]

I'm sorry i don't know the answer to your question but i would certainly suggest asking someone who acts as a gate keeper in this situation and try to get the response in writing so that in the future you aren't disappointed.  Cyndi's suggestion of good records are good suggestions as well regardless.

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize 

[Guest]

I'm on the other side of the pond,  so factor that in accordingly.

I started coming out and I was out. In that first year I started doing all my research I talk about so much. I joined a support group, learned what is different between male and female, chose my appropriate name and started using it. I befriended females of all walks of life. I knew the direction I was headed for my life, I never wanted to turn back.

I don't exactly remember the time line,  but I was steadily moving forward as Jody, albeit I looked more androgynous than female, something like an aging rock star, I was Jody all the time as I  slipped into en fem.

By the time I  saw anyone clinically, I was full time Jody, apparent to all I was not participating in anything like a male role. I thought female, I looked female, I talked female about female things and I  completely self assuredly acted my role as female. The rest was a breeze.

I walked into a gender savvy and respected doctor's office, was seen and had a very indepth conversation about all I had researched about the causes and effects (short and long term) about cross gender hormones. We went over the informed consent, I walked out with my name change letter and my scripts. Bang, straight to the pharmacy!

Shortly thereafter, I saw a gender therapist. We had a wonderful conversation woman to woman about many things female, my research, where I had been, where I am going with both eyes open and why it was right for me. I  walked out with my second letter and then straight to the superior court to file my name change.

I received my court appearance, my legal name change, became JodyAnn and then all the red tape to make my new life. If not for all my own research, preparation and actions, I could have never streamlined the process as I did. I'm not sure when my RLT officially started, but I  do know I was hugely busy my first year and a half. No one ever questioned that.

I have worked with so many soon to be women locally, many do not want to put forth the solid effort on their own. Then they complain about how bogged down the process is, always questioning where they are going and if it is right for them. We have to put in the work for ourselves. I can only share my experience, I can't do it for them.

You can too. You can be the woman you desire and deserve expediently. RLT is so much more than just presentation. If this is your true hearts desire, run with it girlfriend and don't let anyone or anything stop you. You will be a very strong surviving lady because of it! Hug. JodyAnn

[Drea]

I can't comment about how that works with the NHS.

A few observations about how therapists treat it in the US.

As has been stated RLE is usually defined about the point where one goes "full time", but that "full time" in itself is usually marked by the legal document changes.  Historically name change, but as other changes become possible with simple declaration or doctor letter, that too.  Not all therapist are the same, but generally speaking the legal document change identifies the point where one must deal with ones employer, dealt with financial institutions and presumably have gotten thru coming out to friends and immediate family (tho many not if not close).  Again generally speaking, therapist are more interested in their client successfully navigating these issues of dealing with employer, friends, family etc that can be emotionally taxing than they are of one going out in the world "dressed".  In part this is due to presentation being largely stereotyped based and that many clients dwell on the "going out as myself" while trying to avoid the workplace and relationship issues.   If one chooses for their path items that are minor outward change or gender neutral, who is to say that is wrong?  So it is really the legal documents that are viewed as the starting point.

Having said all that, there are therapists who do focus on the outward presentation and expect their client to make an effort with that and may not be concerned about the legal documents.  Or. perhaps more common, therapist may still look at the legal docs as the defining point but may also expect certain presentation things from their client, but these don't necessarily stem from stereotypical presentation, but rather from the client's own claims.

For example their client claims that they want to present a certain way, and that seems very much rooted in their identity.  Well the therapist will tend to expect as part of RLE that their client would be presenting that way their client has always claimed was important.  In some cases their client mis-represents how they wish to present because they feel it is important to project that image to their therapist in order to fit the profile of someone who should transition.  In other cases it may be the clients whole fear holding them back.  In the former the client was playing a game and needs to come clean.  In the latter the client needs help over their own holding back.

HAVING SAID ALL THAT, I tend to think RLE is a big todo about very little.  Too many view it, as RLT called it, a "test" and see it as an obstacle.  Realistically if one is transitioning, it is doing nothing more than most say they want to do.  The "test" element is more related to getting thru the document changes and other hurdles of coming out.  Generally from what I seen most therapists, and even SRS surgeons, are too hung up on that one year and often accept much less provided one has gotten thru dealing with the job issue, friends, family and isn't just sequestering themselves from the world. 

Yes I have seen people sequester themselves from the world doing "RLE" in a closet.  They "retire" so they don't have to deal with job issues despite only having funds to make it a limited time (like thru a year RLE and SRS) and otherwise limit their being out in the world.

You mentioned:

I`m wondering, since I really dont want to wait this long (who Would!?), that if I get my Name and documents changed Now, and live full time Now (I more or less do anyway!) that when it comes time to go to the GIC, I`ll have already done my RLE.

I have seen people attempt something like this quite often.  The expectation is to do everything before ever seeing a therapist.  This has become all the more common since basic informed consent is all that is needed to get hormones.  So the first time they show up at the therapist's doorstep they have "done everything" and are expecting the therapist to say something akin to "great, you are done here is your SRS letter". 

You may not have that expectation, and while it can't hurt, maybe even reduce the waiting period, generally therapists who are going to give a the primary referral for SRS (rather than a second referral) are going to want to know their client more than a couple sessions.  They aren't going to accept a fait accompli.  They will want to know how emotionally stable the person is, what their expectations are, what their other issues are.  So it could speed things but therapist will expect openness.  Too often in such cases, the reason the person has never seen a therapist is because they basically distrust therapists or otherwise do not feel they should even have to see a therapist and thus they tend not to be open and instead try and feed the therapist what they believe the therapist is supposed hear from them.  Maybe that works but I know therapists that will spot that a mile away and won't provide a referral till the client settles down and becomes open and genuine.

With the NHS you are dealing with a bureaucracy so probably hard to get them to be flexible or get credit for something done before they ever see you.

[Guest DianeATL]

Like other posters from the US, I can't speak about the UK, only the US experience.  

For me I went through about a year of therapy before starting RLE and did that for about 2 years before my confirmation surgery.  For me, RLE started when I moved out on my own and began living under my assumed but not yet legal name.  I was in a situation where I worked 90% of the time from home and I had an engaged daughter, so I was only 90% full time. I waited until after her marriage to come out to her and then waited until surgery time for work.  I didn't want to go through bathroom issues and other temporary problems at work that would be solved with surgery and a gender marker change.

But even at 90% I was navigating doctors appointments, grocery shopping, banking and other real life scenarios every day.  I found it very valuable and enriching to my life be able to handle all of the problems well.  I even traveled internationally presenting female but with a male passport.  I know that RLE is like purgatory and people want to get out of it as soon as possible but I am cautious about skipping it.  Most of the problems that you have of being misgendered and such during that period will persist after surgery.  I recently had a low cut top, boobs nearly falling out, and of course looking good for a group dinner out and got sir'd by the waiter.  Surgery is not a magic wand that makes all of those things go away.  It helps a lot but should be viewed as icing on the cake not a cure all.

RLE is where I really matured and came into my own so that now with my name and gender changed and a new body, I am cruising down my path.

My surgeon is a member of WPATH so she followed the Standards of Care and required 2 therapists letters and wouldn't have considered me for surgery without at least 6 months to a year of RLE.  And then there was an additional 6 months of waiting for the date.

Make the most of your time in purgatory, don't be too anxious to cut it short.

My 2 cents worth. 

Diane

[Guest]

Drea makes some very good points. I  need to clarify that I received only my letter for name change and gender marker in one visit. I did have quite a bit of therapy sessions about several related and unrelated issues long before my surgery letter. The time gap between legally JodyAnn to JodyAnn post op was about four years or more and a few miracles.

I agree, RLT can mean many things to different people, the common denominator is being out full time, all the time. Waiting seems to take forever, what now seems like a lifetime of happy female, for me has only been about seven years from "I can do this" until today.

I never agreed with the old benchmark of one year full time before hormones, that only promoted hardship, emotional trauma, ostricisation and social abuse. All detrimental to happy successful transitioning. If HRT doesn't work to unlock the female brain, it can be successfully discontinued with the help of a doctor. I can't imagine being in that situation so I'm sure my bias shows. Still,  I'm glad they relaxed from that out dated requirement.

I certainly believe in at least a year past legal name change and gender marker, out in a completely female role 24/7/365 before going under the knife for GCS. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Giggle. Hug. JodyAnn

[Katie Snow]

oh my goodness! Thanks you all for so much wonderful advice so far it`s much more than I expected

the Sequestering bit I do understand, my old "Male" self has done that for years, and I`v about had enough! I really don`t like the life he`s left me with to deal with too much (including all the physical Junk hes collected over the years! LOL).

I`v been on Hormones now for 12 months on the 17`th Dec, and although I`m buying them myself, I am being supervised by my doctor and having blood tests done to keep me safe, My name and especially my Title from Mr to Ms is are very important to me and can hardly wait to get all my documents changed over including my Bussiness`s with the tax office.

I expect a therapist won`t find too much wrong with me as I`v come out to everyone I`v had an opportunity to, I live 24/7 as myself now (except for things at my childs school), I`v not needed help with going out en femme, I`m basically transitioning entirely under my own power, althoufh sites such as this and few friends I`v made online and am making at a localish LGBT support group even though I`m the only visibly Trans person they have there. But I``v no problem with a therapist finding out more stuff about me, it might be fun! I`m a Bisexual Female in an mostly male body, how much worse could it get right? LOL

I think my Main concern about getting through to GRS as soon as possible isn`t so much the dysphoria part, I think the Name/Title change with the HRT and living fulltime will take care of most of it, but I know that I can be off the Spiro, Finasteride and have a lower (less dangerous) dose of Estrogen quicker. I really don`t like having to take them all from a Health perspective, and having certain bits removed will solve that.

You guys are Fantastic, thanks again for all the great advice so far!

 

now I just need to figure out how to get a timestamp on all my pictures :)

 

[Cyndee]

6 minutes ago, Katie Snow said:

 but I know that I can be off the Spiro, Finasteride and have a lower (less dangerous) dose of Estrogen quicker. I really don`t like having to take them all from a Health perspective, and having certain bits removed will solve that.
 

 

So true, gosh I just have to say I don't miss spiro ! and a much lower e dose is also very nice

[tracy_j]

I do not have experience in this here but from the little I have seen (from a documentary some years ago) the Drea's explanation captures things well.

Another thing to remember is that you are looking at two different things here. Change of identity and change of gender. These are processed by different organisations who are unrelated.

I have checked the information I have and found too big for upload so these links may give you insight.

https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/int-gend-proto.pdf

http://www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/assets/media/gender-dysphoria-guide-for-gps-and-other-health-care-staff.pdf

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/files/pdfversion/CR181_Nov15.pdf

http://www.wlmht.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/WLMHT-Gender-Identity-Clinic-referral-form-v3.pdf

 

[Sakura]

I used to think of the RLT as an arbitrary start and stop timer a gauge of transition if you will. A year two years 3 seems like a long time to wait if you are in fact just spending that time waiting. 12 years out I guess I am still in the RLT but I realized there really is no end game and that post transition life is a series of smaller transitions Son to Daughter, Brother to Sister, Girl friend to Wife, Young woman to middle age woman. And all that lies in between. Each presents its own unique test of resolve  SRS is simply the stop of your pre op life. So do not use the time before it as a waiting game spend it preparing for everything that will come after it.

[Guest DianeATL]

On 12/18/2016 at 3:25 PM, Sakura said:

I used to think of the RLT as an arbitrary start and stop timer a gauge of transition if you will. A year two years 3 seems like a long time to wait if you are in fact just spending that time waiting. 12 years out I guess I am still in the RLT but I realized there really is no end game and that post transition life is a series of smaller transitions Son to Daughter, Brother to Sister, Girl friend to Wife, Young woman to middle age woman. And all that lies in between. Each presents its own unique test of resolve  SRS is simply the stop of your pre op life. So do not use the time before it as a waiting game spend it preparing for everything that will come after it.

Well said.  There are always things to do to improve yourself and RLE consists of doing those things which continue after surgery.  I say I am 99% through transition because I know it never ends.