When (if Ever) Should You Tell Yer "story"?

[Guest Benzrathe]

I go around about this issue too. I know there's an ethical answer, and yes honesty is paramount. But I kinda see my transition along the lines of a female changing her hair style, or dying her hair. Hold up, hear me out...

I'm not minimizing our process my T-sibs, but really - for me SRS is just fine tuning my appearance so that I can finally look my best, as well as the most consistent with the accurate and actual me. Kinda along the same lines as why would someone who's a blonde now tell their lover "Oh and btw - I used to be a brunette."

Granted, they will prolly figure out at some point, that there's something (physiologically) different about you, than observed in yer bio counterpart. But do we REALLY owe them an explanation, and if so - when would you advise tellin'em?

I think I must've been either a cat, or a monkey in another life - too dang curious for my own good most times... Thanks for your consideration.

Benz

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

I am struggling with if, when, and how to tell all kinds of people about my gender fabulousness. With a potential significant other, I'd probably tell early on. I like straight girls. It seems like they will feel betrayed if I wait too long. On the other hand, it isn't like I am going to go all blabbing on the first date either. I'd only tell when it looked like it might go somewhere.

I do kind of feel like I should tell someone I'm dating. As for "owe"...not sure. When you put it that way I guess I don't owe an explanation any more than another dude needs to explain why it hangs to the left, is small, or has a strategically placed freckle. My head is spinning...

[Guest Benzrathe]

Exactly.

I mean, if they love you for you - then what difference does it make who you were, right? Do you grow to care for someone because of who you know/see, or reserve that until we get a full history? How does this - being trans - differ (if at all) from let's say, being an abuse survivor, or a recovered substance abuser? Are we obligated to share those histories too? I know there's this whole intimacy via sharing blah blah blah... and maybe I'm just naive, but my position is I'm a man. I've always been a man - now i just have the body to corroborate that; even though I wasn't born with it. Why should I have to explain that to anyone.

I kinda get that in not disclosing, that I'm taking the right to choose for herself out of her hands, but does she love me? Or the biology she she sees, yanno? o.0

Benz

[Guest OneOutOfnOne]

SRS is just fine tuning my appearance so that I can finally look my best, as well as the most consistent with the accurate and actual me. Kinda along the same lines as why would someone who's a blonde now tell their lover "Oh and btw - I used to be a brunette."

I like how you explain this. It expresses how I feel about my transitioning very well.

For those who are typically stealth, I think it would be reasonable to tell anyone to whom the contents of one's pants are at any time going to be important that one is transgendered, for one's own protection if for nothing else! Otherwise, it's not anyone's business. If there develops a possibility of it becoming someone's business, then telling the person as soon as possible seems the best option. One wouldn't want to waste time on a person who would reject another based on one's past.

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

Exactly.

I mean, if they love you for you - then what difference does it make who you were, right? Do you grow to care for someone because of who you know/see, or reserve that until we get a full history? How does this - being trans - differ (if at all) from let's say, being an abuse survivor, or a recovered substance abuser? Are we obligated to share those histories too? I know there's this whole intimacy via sharing blah blah blah... and maybe I'm just naive, but my position is I'm a man. I've always been a man - now i just have the body to corroborate that; even though I wasn't born with it. Why should I have to explain that to anyone.

I kinda get that in not disclosing, that I'm taking the right to choose for herself out of her hands, but does she love me? Or the biology she she sees, yanno? o.0

Benz

This is a complicated, complicated issue that probably shouldn't be. Guilt about not disclosing is almost like admitting that we don't feel "real". On the other hand, my reasons for disclosing early on are because I fear the reaction of others. I feel like the longer I wait, the more potential there is for things to blow up. In my opinion, my past is my business...but girls don't like that. The thing is, once they see what I'm working with, I imagine they'll know what's up. Maybe it's all in how you tell them. You can disclose without being like "Oh...I'm so sorry for being trans".

Of course, what I'd really like to find is a straight identified woman who sees me for the man I am. With that woman, disclosure wouldn't be an issue. You know?

[Guest Martin]

I don't think there's any kind of ethical obligation to disclose. Being private about one's past medical history is NOT the same thing as lying. In fact, there's nothing dishonest about it.

That said, I'll probably always disclose before I have sex (that is, before any clothes come off). I have a small penis and that will affect sexual partners. There are ways around it (like using a prosthesis), but it will change the way we have sex. Besides, I don't want to be rejected for the size of my equipment while I'm naked. I may or may not say I'm transsexual at that point, but I will say I have a micropenis. I hate knowing that's true, but it is. Also, I will be open about my infertility because that would also affect a sexual partner. I might also have to talk about my past sexual trauma so that my partner will understand the need for clear boundaries and always listening to me saying "no" in any shape or form. I hate having to have these kinds of conversations, but I believe they are in both my and my partner's best interest.

Also, so far I've come out to people I really trust as it becomes relevant. Sometimes I want to talk about my pre-transition life and need to disclose in order to do so. Other times I want to give more context to my anti-cissexualism rants. However, this is not because people have a "right" to know. They don't. But sometimes I extend that privilege to someone I trust so I can get my own emotional needs met. I'm personally the type of person to be pretty open about my medical information. I tell people I'm going to have surgery (though I rarely disclose that its FTM bottom surgery). I'm open about my mental illnesses and their symptoms and treatment. I don't tell everyone this all the time, but as a relationship develops, this will probably come up. I'm less open about being trans, but I'm willing to tell some people that I am because my general comfort around reveling medical stuff. Because I do tend to tell close friends, I'll probably end up telling any future partner before I'm ready to have sex anyway. But I don't feel any moral obligation to do so.

As a separate process from all this, I screen potential friends and lovers for tenancies to be a violent bigot. I have no desire to be in a relationship with such a person. I doubt I would EVER come out as part of this screening process. History has shown that such people kill trans people - and not necessarily because they "panic." I would probably mention transsexuals in a completely different context and see how they respond. I would also watch their language for racism, abilism, classism, sexist, heterosexualism, and cissexualism. Most people people have at least some degree of some of these, but the more they have, the less interested I am in them.

All that said, I've only had two partners since transition and I got to know both of them in a trans context. I don't know yet how this will work out in the rest of my life, and I'm very shy about asking people out because of that.

[Guest Pól_Eire]

I'll preface this by saying this may not be the most popular opinion. I'm not sure this is my opinion, I haven't really settled yet on an answer to this, but this is more like what I'm thinking now.

I think that until trans is more mainstream/widely accepted (how we get there is another question, though related), if you're going to be intimate with someone, they should have the opportunity to say that they're not comfortable being with a trans person. I wish that I didn't think that was the case, but I think informed consent is important. You shouldn't need to get consent from your partner that you're trans and they're OK with that, but I think you do need to. Is it an ethical obligation? No, I don't think so. I think do it's a obligation for you if you actually want to have a meaningful relationship. I have found that when you don't disclose there's this barrier that prevents you from moving the relationship forward, although to be honest. I don't usually stick around long enough for that to happen. Almost every girl I've ever hooked up with has called me some variation on "cold-hearted bast*rd" at some point, and while I hate to admit it, there's probably more than a few grains of truth in that.

I posted this in another topic (here'), but it's pretty relevant to this discussion.

QUOTE (leo @ Apr 24 2009, 06:44 AM) *

i was wondering would anyone else go stealth to the extent of not telling a partner in the early stages of a relationship

QUOTE (DanM @ Apr 24 2009, 02:28 AM)

First do you see the relationship going somewhere? Because if not don't out yourself.

OK. I'll admit that I've done this. It's not something I'm particularly proud of, but I have done it, and I've done it more than once. What can I say? I'm an idiot.

I know that it's not fair to her, and it's actually kind of dangerous for me -- even though most of the girls I've done that to were smaller than me physically, I'm sure lots of them have friends who are a lot bigger than I am.

If you want to get technical, I guess Dan's point for me depends on how you define 'relationship' and whether you include random hook-up in 'relationship.' I've only done this to one or two girls who I would actually consider dating, but I'm definitely guilty of doing this for every random hook-up I've ever had, ranging from first base to, well, farther. I'm not going to go into details because that would be completely inappropriate here, but I'll say that I've let things get much farther than they should have on more than one occasion.

I'm fully aware of how dumb it is to do this, but I've done it anyway in spite of that. I think more than a little of it is that it actually feels safer to do this than to come out, because I don't have to tell her and risk having her out me. I'm also not very good at relationships in general, and when it comes down to it, I'm a 20 year old guy in college... I guess it's kind of a 'take what I can get' mentality.

I'd understand if you all think less of me for this (I know I do), but I figured I'd be completely honest.

-Pól

Bottom line: as tempting as it is to not disclose (believe me I know how tempting it is, because I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt), not telling the person you're getting involved with is a quick route to being really alone.

-Pól

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

I personally feel like I couldn't be intimate with someone if I didn't disclose. Being trans is a part of my identity. If someone doesn't want to be with me because of that, I don't want to be with them either.

As for ethics...I still have no clue. It's a personal choice really. This is one of those things where there probably isn't a good answer.

[Guest Benzrathe]

All answers are "good" answers, Ains., because the more we dialogue the greater the possibility for resolution/consensus. Your response raised another question for me though, dude. Do you see yourself as "trans", or a man? To me, my transition is just the means to my realistic end. Therefore I don't guess I see, being a transman as part of me. Just a part of where I am atm. Does that make sense?

Someone mentioned something earlier that struck a cord with me though. In being trans, it does provide an avenue for accessing the time spent pre-trans. There're times I miss my lesbian sisters, and being part of that community - though even then just an ancillary part. Being lesbian was never a perfect fit, just the best available to me at the time. So there are times that I miss it, and things I miss about it.

Benz

[Guest B.heard]

I swing from one answer to another over this question.

Do bio men feel the need to disclose having a small organ or trouble getting 'it' up to casual dates? doubtful would they worry about scars or having 'wonky' parts? again doubtful ... so why am I?

Then I think well maybe i'll wait and see how well I and 'it' passes? if its ok then again why do I need to bring it up unless your in a relationship that is turning into love and sharing lives an commitment as at that point I believe sharing and being open is needed and hiding well that would be a lie.

Then I swing back to the worry of losing someone you have spent alot of time with invested feelings in and then telling them to get a bad reaction... its difficult

perhaps because I dont see being trans as an identity, being male is my identity being trans is a process i will spend alot of time going through to get here, I dont plan on transitioning to be a trans I want to transition to be a man

if any of that makes sense

[Guest leo]

i take another aproach

proberly why im still single...

i usually meet people on the internet so its easier

but i usually tell str8 away so they know what they are in for if u no what i mean

but im doubtful ill do that in real life as in the flesh

[Guest Benzrathe]

The reality is, that's it IS prolly best, to be honest up front. Why risk investing all that emotion in something that was doomed to fail from the get? I guess the simplest way to circumvent that, is to specialize yer huntin' ground - so to speak. We tend to find potentials where we hang, so hang in safe places. Like GLBT friendly spaces. People who tend to be there, even if straight, are often not "narrow" as the saying goes... Capeche`.

Though a word of encouragement... my experience is that straight women, who know I'm trans are just as available and open to the idea - more so occasionally. I've been called "The best of both worlds" more than once. Hand to God. They (the females straight and otherwise) see a transman as having the exterior and accouterments of men, but the sensitivities and comprehensions of women. Makes gettin' close to us easier. Though that varies in the individual.

So fear not. There's room in this world for ALL of you, not just the gender specific parts.

Peace

Benz

[Guest leo]

maybe your right benz

i just aint met a girl like that,

they are usually bisexual

[Guest Elizabeth K]

This is the FTM forum and I know that, and I always try to add to a topic ONLY if it benifits the forum it's posted to.

I read all the answers and opinions and see a great dialogue - and I agree that sometimes the dialogue is as important as the topic. GOOD STUFF!

So just butting in with a MTF perspective, I suggest that the idea of NEVER revealing your origin is easier for us MTF - assuming good SRS results and a possibility for steath. This is because of the obvious - medical procedures can give us MTF realisitic sexual equipment.

And that means what? Well... we MTF CAN go 100% stealth - in theory - even to the point of having sex. But the odds of a FTM succeeding in going stealth is a little more complicated, ESPECIALLY when it comes to the sex act.

BUT - that doesn't always matter. First of all - both FTM and MTF have the danger of being outed SOMEWHERE and SOMETIME - by old friends or by just bad luck. A partner would be devistated! Well... unless they already knew.

I think out of a hundred people that would be a match for a full time ralationship, 90% would NOT want to commit to a liftime to mating with a transperson, not because of lack of love, but because of biological reasons, the need to procreate. This probably changes drastically if the potential partner is older, or already has children or does not want children.

But saying, 'Hello dear, I just want to let you know I was born a female, and as a man I am sterile." And having a reply, 'Oh, dear, don't worry, we can adopt!' I think that response would be rare.

So ethically? The responsibility seems to be allowing the other person the right to decide if they want to biologically bear (or sire) children.

This is an oversimplicication and just one of a hundred arguements/observations/opinions that can come out of the discussions on this TOPIC.

But I think it is a MAJOR consideration.

Me personally... after all that is said?

I would wait to see where a relationship is going, then use my instincts - and what my heart says - in deciding WHEN to confess my story - and my 'condition.' But I WOULD do it eventually. I guess it's not really in me to go 100% stealth, because I would consider it somewhat 'living a lie.'

This really reduces my chances for an open relationship. And for a MTF, opens me up to the attention of 'admirers." I really would want a heterosexual man who happened to fall in love with me, or bi-sexual I suppose. Now there another potential TOPIC!

Tough TOPIC!

Lizy

[Guest julia_d]

It's a very interesting topic.

I have a tale to relate about how I come to be married to the greatest guy in the world.

A few years ago I was 100% stealth.. completely. I was aware of this man who was friendly and kind, different from the droolers who just wanted to get in my pants. I noticed him, and he noticed me.. we watched each other and occasionally commented on things to each other in a conspiratorial way.

I was ill.. he was very kind to me.. he was ill.. I responded with the same kindness and caring concern. Still 100% stealth I started to think there was somebody here really worth the effort of getting to know much better, but I was still wary of spilling the beans in case I scared him away by being too blunt... we continued our observations from afar.

I had a big bust up with my ongoing relationship.. I thought he knew.. I have found the copies of the emails we had exchanged where I had laid it all out.. and he had chosen to ignore what I was saying.. so be it... The shock pushed me to a decision.. to show my pain in being rejected and cast aside by publicly coming out from my stealth and finally showing my real self (the stealth person has an interesting past.. and an interesting life after all) .. What a surprise.

In my pain and hurt my friend stood by me.. we became closer.. and closer... a few late night talks turned into something else.. We both came to the conclusion that we are neither of us getting any younger. Both have been badly hurt in relationships before, but the one thing which we have in common is how much regard and friendship and dare I say it.. love.. we have for each other.

I am glad this time I was up front about who I am.. and what I am.. the who is more important than the what, but a lasting relationship can only be built on a solid foundation of honesty and trust. The special ones are worth being up front with.. and while still being yourself (if they are really special they will have noticed that you are different anyway.. it will be one of the reasons why you interest them) then carefully bite the bullet and take that chance. You will know in your heart which are the ones worth being 100% honest with .. they are the ones who make you breathing speed up and your heart start pounding.. the person you cry about when they are not around for a few hours.. the one you miss within minutes of leaving.. the one who will mess up your life because +9 hours is a swine of a time difference to cope with.. and you don't care.. because all that matters is them... and after 6 months it just keeps getting stronger.

everyone else.. friends.. colleagues.. workmates and casual acquaintances.. need to know basis. think safety first. XD

is that any insight?

[Guest Benzrathe]

Yeah it is julia, appreciate your input. Though did the fact that you perceived yer feeling as mutual to your partner turn hubby? Or was your decision to unstealth, as it were, simply based on your need to be open and honest with him - for the sake of the burgeoning relationship?

And you Lizzy girl, thanks for your perspective as well! Though, dear heart, you forget about A.I. (Alternative Insemination)! I was more "fruitful and multiplied" as a lesbian than ever as a straight human being. So being a sterile male, does nothing to limit my eventual spouse from the joys and pangs of procreation. =] No matter how old I am, as long as she is of child bearing age. I'm looking forward to that opportunity again, actually.

I'm so glad we have sisters to keep us fellas grounded. Thanks girls/women for being here. =]

Peace,

Benz

[Guest julia_d]

Actually I came out globally.. and though I lost a lot more friends I also found somebody who loves me for me and not for what he thought I might be. I will be honest and say that was a surprise.. a very pleasant surprise.

I my case coming out from stealth has improved my life.. but saying that I don't think wearing a yellow star on our coats will help us at all. It has drifted into my real world life some as well.. I'm not so worried about passing as I was... and I probably pass better as a result of being way more relaxed.

I think being up front with somebody involves a lot of trust and reading the person to have some idea how they will react.. or wear the yellow star and never have to have that conversation... It's not really cut and dried is it.