Facial Feminization A Must?

[Guest Erika]

Hello everyone, I am brand new to these forums, I have been on HRT for 11 days now and have a question.

After prolonged exposure to estrogen effects does your face change? I know about FFS but was wondering if some people are able to go without it. Also if your face does feminize how long does it normally take?

[Guest Little Sara]

The bones in the face don't change. The skin on it does. It becomes softer amongst other things.

It took me about 6 months of HRT to get rid of my acne (8 years of it, finally ending) and getting soft skin.

[Guest Emily_MI]

I am so jealous, lol..I wish I was on HRT right now(hopefully soon). I know of girls who have not done any FFS and live a successful and normal life, depends in how lucky you are what it comes down to?, I(according to my therapist) need just a little FFS which I am fine with, anything to help me be more feminine and live more of a *normal* life I am all for and will openly welcome.

~Hugs!!~

-Emily

[Guest Erika]

The bones in the face don't change. The skin on it does. It becomes softer amongst other things.

It took me about 6 months of HRT to get rid of my acne (8 years of it, finally ending) and getting soft skin.

Thank you for your reply, I guess my real concern is, is it possible in some cases that harmones are enough to change your facial appearance without ever having to get FFS and still pass?

[Guest fairly.loopy]

I'll give you the short skinny; I've been transitioned, HRT and such, for over 5 years now. Facial feminization is pretty high on my charts. The male face has an underlying bone structure, and hair line most unlike naturally born women. Brow bossing is my biggest problem.

Facial feminisation is all a matter of opinion. If it's something you think you might need one day, start saving your pennies. You won't know for a year or two after HTR, when you can look at yourself objectivly after the biggest changes of HTR are complete.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Well - I won't need it. I am finishing up five months on HRT - but I apparently was not that masculine looking to start. It depends on what you start with, I guess. I will want to eventually get a face lift to smooth out my throat - and MAYBE a reduction of the bridge of my nose.

So I suggest looking in the mirror, imagining all the muscle and fat redistributing to smoother contours - but your bone structure staying the same.

Just an idea

Lizzy

[Guest Little Sara]

Thank you for your reply, I guess my real concern is, is it possible in some cases that harmones are enough to change your facial appearance without ever having to get FFS and still pass?

What Lizzy said: I wasn't that masculine looking to start with, in the face or otherwise. So I pass without permanent hair removal and without any kind of surgery or implants or special clothes. I also pass without make-up, with my hair unbrushed and in jeans and a t-shirt.

[Guest Emily_MI]

At the TG Convention coming up here in early June in Chicago there is going to be a FFS Doctor there(can't remember name but world re-noun and really wrote the book on FFS) who is going to be able to do consultations there, so I am defiantly going to be talking with him and get an idea about what I will need for FFS here in the not-to-distant future(crossing my fingers it wont be TOO long! )

~Hugs!~

-Emily

[Guest shanna_bana_1]

it depends on the person. stick with the hormones and see how that is.

[Guest Donna Jean]

Yes...what Lizzy said....

FFS is WAY expensive and I've seen some examples that don't seem to make much difference at all and after $30, 000.00 You are going to want some awesome results...!

I also believe that you should go for a period of time on the hormones before jumping the gun on FFS...you may not need it at all!

It's always there if you can afford it......I'd say let the hormones work first!

****HUGGS****

Donna Jean

[Guest nova]

At the TG Convention coming up here in early June in Chicago there is going to be a FFS Doctor there(can't remember name but world re-noun and really wrote the book on FFS) who is going to be able to do consultations there, so I am defiantly going to be talking with him and get an idea about what I will need for FFS here in the not-to-distant future(crossing my fingers it wont be TOO long! )

~Hugs!~

-Emily

Hi Emily,

Is the doctors name, Douglas K. Ousterhout, M.D., D.D.S. ? Dr. Ousterhout is based in San Francisco and announced he is retiring in 2012. His medical textbook is called, Aesthetic contouring of the Craniofacial skeleton, published in 1991. FFS links

[Guest fairly.loopy]

Hi Emily,

Is the doctors name, Douglas K. Ousterhout, M.D., D.D.S. ? Dr. Ousterhout is based in San Francisco and announced he is retiring in 2012. His medical textbook is called, Aesthetic contouring of the Craniofacial skeleton, published in 1991. FFS links

Crap! For real? He's retiring? Shoot! I've been eyeing him as my doctor of choice for a while. I just didn't want to drive myself into debt (says the gal that just signed onto a 4-year $100k college). I might have to jump the gun and sign up soon if he's cashing in.

[Sally]

I felt I was cursed with this face when I tried to pass as male, but the total lake of masculine bone structure is a blessing now!

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest Leah1026]

Thank you for your reply, I guess my real concern is, is it possible in some cases that hormones are enough to change your facial appearance without ever having to get FFS and still pass?

Possibly yes and possibly no, it's highly variable. But you need to know 2 important facts first:

1. You shouldn't get FFS to pass with others, you should only get FFS for yourself.

2. Even IF you get super soft tissue results with HRT that will probably fade in time and that underlying male bone structure will make itself known. I have known a couple girls who thought they looked good until they hit their late 40's. Then their skin started thinning out and BAM they looked male again.

---------------------------------

I am a Dr O grad and YES he is retiring in about a year and a half.

----------------------------------

To the naysayers.... <Yoda voice> The Force FFS powerful it is. </Yoda voice>

People who knew you before surgery will have difficulty seeing any change. They are stuck on the old you. And I have to admit I was too for about the first month after surgery. But then I started to forget that old face and embraced the new. I look soooooo much better now. Except for extreme cases the changes are going to be subtle. And it really makes you appreciate how finely tuned the human brain is when after surgery strangers ONLY see a female face before them. The subtle changes are substantial enough that their brains register FEMALE when they see you.

Important caveat: FFS, as great as it is, won't help a lot if you haven't worked on your voice. The combination of FFS and a female voice is a dynamic duo that can change your life.

[Guest Leah1026]

Check out this page:

http://beginninglifeforums.com/FFS.htm

For an extreme example of what FFS can do click on Madeleine's pic to see a before and after that will blow you away.

[Guest Emily_MI]

Hi Emily,

Is the doctors name, Douglas K. Ousterhout, M.D., D.D.S. ? Dr. Ousterhout is based in San Francisco and announced he is retiring in 2012. His medical textbook is called, Aesthetic contouring of the Craniofacial skeleton, published in 1991. FFS links

Yes that is name!!, really sorry to hear though that he is retiring! , I was hoping that when I went for my FFS he would be available and I know that I probably won't be able to start my FFS at that time, but you never know with my transition and could happen sooner then what I originally thought!

[Guest leo]

omg just clicked on the link and there faces when in bandages

[Guest julia_d]

I would say if you can afford it why not.. but first see how hormones work.. and learn makeup.. get your eyebrows shaped.. have your hair done or buy a good quality wig or two.. work on your voice (a little hard for me as I'm still a bit of a singer) and above all get your teeth fixed. Then go out and project your feminine aura. .. poise, voice, confidence .. 90% of the mission... The day you get read as FTM is fine.. shows you are starting to create real doubts.. when people you have worked with and have known for years start commenting that they can't see you as "one of the guys.. it doesn't work any more" then it's closer to reality.

I happened to be watching a program.. archaeology .. on tv the other night.. by chance they had a few skulls... Even the expert could only say "this one is 60% probablilty of being female.. this one we wouldn't want to guess.. we can't tell.. this one shows the signs of being male.. but may just have been a strong and large woman... without other tell tale bones we can never be more than 70% certain of the sex of an individual from the skull alone" Interesting.

There are some dang ugly women in my town.. People say I'm cute compared to so and so.. All the surgery in the world won't help if you walk the walk and talk the talk of a man. I like being seen as cute.. and I'm not that bothered how other people see me any more.. 4 years in a well known band with publicity pictures splashed all over everywhere and I was never outed by my face under the makeup. It's what is inside that counts. Be confident and it just works.. XD

[Guest Emily_MI]

I would say if you can afford it why not.. but first see how hormones work.. and learn makeup.. get your eyebrows shaped.. have your hair done or buy a good quality wig or two.. work on your voice (a little hard for me as I'm still a bit of a singer) and above all get your teeth fixed. Then go out and project your feminine aura. .. poise, voice, confidence .. 90% of the mission... The day you get read as FTM is fine.. shows you are starting to create real doubts.. when people you have worked with and have known for years start commenting that they can't see you as "one of the guys.. it doesn't work any more" then it's closer to reality.

I happened to be watching a program.. archaeology .. on tv the other night.. by chance they had a few skulls... Even the expert could only say "this one is 60% probablilty of being female.. this one we wouldn't want to guess.. we can't tell.. this one shows the signs of being male.. but may just have been a strong and large woman... without other tell tale bones we can never be more than 70% certain of the sex of an individual from the skull alone" Interesting.

There are some dang ugly women in my town.. People say I'm cute compared to so and so.. All the surgery in the world won't help if you walk the walk and talk the talk of a man. I like being seen as cute.. and I'm not that bothered how other people see me any more.. 4 years in a well known band with publicity pictures splashed all over everywhere and I was never outed by my face under the makeup. It's what is inside that counts. Be confident and it just works.. XD

I agree, I would want to see how hormones would affect me first(when I actually start on them) and see how much of a impact they truly are, and yes also work on makeup and going my eyebrows and so fourth, I am *trying* to grow out my hair out more right now(with out much luck so far), would hormones help more with this?

~Hugs!~

-Emily

[Guest julia_d]

Hair and hormones.. it really depends on your age. 20 years ago I could sit on my hair.. now it barely reaches my shoulders.. all HRT did was stop me losing any more than was already gone. That's fine.. i like wigs.. and warpaint (my mothers name).. they have been a part of my life since my teens in music.

Don't try to second guess what hormones will do.. just take them religiously and the day you start take some photos.. then 6 months later take some more and compare... be ready for a very pleasant surprise. Daily changes are slow.. we don't really notice the changes in the person we see in the mirror.. a 6 months ago vs now check will be surprising.. My avatar is me.. recently.. my gallery pics are either 9 years ago or 5 months ago .. there have been some serious changes.. even after 8 years on hormones.. Last autumn it clicked with me.. and since then I have come on more than in all the 7 years between.

I think the one thing we all agree on is they change us.. either inside or outside.. but they do change us in sometimes surprising ways.

[Guest Little Sara]

My mother says I changed a LOT in 3 years, personally I didn't notice much changes.

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora Erika,

If your facial bone structure is somewhat 'androgynous' in the first place, for example high cheek bones, small nose and round not squared chin-then HRT will work wonders-having facial surgery may give you peace of mind but it's no guarantee that society's going to see you as a natal female...I transitioned in my mid forties - when I look in the mirror I still see the 'me' I've always seen, but society sees a female...I've been on HRT for around 10 years with no facial surgery...

It's like this...Some for whatever reason 'need' FFS -it makes them feel better about themselves [even if it doesn't improve their lot in society] and some 'don't', that is, we are quite comfortable/fortunate with how we are percieved by society...

Even if you have the money for FFS, it's best to give HRT time to work it's magic[plus also finish facial hair removal] and if after 6-12 months you're still not happy then opt for FFS...But beware of 'internalised' transphobia-a somewhat delusional desire to try and remove 'all' the characteristic 'maleness' that comes from being 'transgender'...

Metta Jendar

[Guest Leah1026]

Even if you have the money for FFS, it's best to give HRT time to work it's magic[plus also finish facial hair removal] and if after 6-12 months you're still not happy then opt for FFS...But beware of 'internalised' transphobia-a somewhat delusional desire to try and remove 'all' the characteristic 'maleness' that comes from being 'transgender'...

I agree with this. That is why it is important to have surgery for the right reasons. For me it was to be rid of the ghost in the mirror, the image staring back at me from the mirror had never made sense to me. FFS fixed that for me because the ghost is gone and I recognize the image in the mirror now. I didn't want to look beautiful, I wanted to look the way I should have. And I do. I like to say I look like a cross between my Mom and sister, and the people I've shared pictures of them with concur.

For the record I had FFS after I had been on HRT 20 months. I'm fast approaching the 5th anniversary of my surgery. Life is good.

[Guest Zenda]

I agree with this. That is why it is important to have surgery for the right reasons. For me it was to be rid of the ghost in the mirror, the image staring back at me from the mirror had never made sense to me. FFS fixed that for me because the ghost is gone and I recognize the image in the mirror now. I didn't want to look beautiful, I wanted to look the way I should have. And I do. I like to say I look like a cross between my Mom and sister, and the people I've shared pictures of them with concur.

For the record I had FFS after I had been on HRT 20 months. I'm fast approaching the 5th anniversary of my surgery. Life is good.

Kia Ora Leah,

Glad to hear that you and the mirror are now friends-The mirror can be a real biiiitch at times...My sister and cousin when they visited me afew years back, said I now look more like my oldest sister - when she was my age...I took this as a complement, but I'm not sure how my oldest sister feels about this...

Many cross hormone specialists agree that during HRT trans-females[m2fs] tend to take on the characteristics of their oldest sister or mother...I now know that there's some truth to this...

Metta Jendar

[Guest angie]

Morning All,

I read this post days ago.Thought about how to reply also.

When this journey started,I thought there was No Way I could pass without Some FFS.

Then I got a staph infection,on my face,that literally melted the skin on my chin on the

left side.Leaving me with a huge ugly scar.I was scarred and demoralized.But the need

to be a woman was far greater than my need to be pretty.Two years ago,today,I started

my transition.I pass easily,always.Even with that nasty scar.I forget about it even being

there,for real.Few of my girlfriends have had,much less can afford FFS.Sometimes,you

have to take,and be satisfied,with what the magic HRT gives you.If you have the ready

cash available,go for it,it does make a difference,but you can live without,and be quite

happy,without it also. I AM

Hugs Ladies,

Angie