"Girl Talk"

[Drea]

Can someone give some good examples of "Girl Talk"?

I see this oft mentioned by MTF often enough in the context of "We had girl talk..." or "It was so nice being out with my female friends so we could have some girl talk".

So what does "girl talk" consist of?  How does it differ from other talk?

I ask because I only find "girl talk" ever coming up except as a characterization by men.  Certainly women I know think of discussions they have with other women as "girl talk" and if someone were to label what they were discussing as "girl talk" they would generally find it to be patronizing.  The only likely time they might label their own discussions as "girl talk" would be to a guy to keep him from prying like if they had just been talking about him.  Cause they would know that by labeling it as such he wouldn't pry further.

Maybe it is a regional thing?  To me though it is simply not a thing other than a guys way of trivializing what women are talking about. 

[Jani]

Well one example is of things only women are interested in like makeup, hair, clothes.   I talk with my sisters about these things.  Relationships is a good one and I mean your real feelings.   This is not your typical male discussion subject.   I lien girl talk to be something where guys wouldn't fit into the conversation. 

Have fun when talking to your girl friends. 
Jani

 

[Drea]

23 minutes ago, Jani423 said:

Well one example is of things only women are interested in like makeup, hair, clothes.   I talk with my sisters about these things.  Relationships is a good one and I mean your real feelings.   This is not your typical male discussion subject.   I lien girl talk to be something where guys wouldn't fit into the conversation. 

Have fun when talking to your girl friends. 
Jani

 

Thank you Jani.  Hair, makeup and clothes seem to take up a small fraction of discussion beyond idle pleasantries outside of a salon.

Relationships and such...well that is just part of normal discussion and I never hear any of my friends ever referring to "girl talk" outside the context mentioned.

And yes we have lots of fun talking

[Cindy Truheart]

41 minutes ago, Drea said:

Thank you Jani.  Hair, makeup and clothes seem to take up a small fraction of discussion beyond idle pleasantries outside of a salon.

Relationships and such...well that is just part of normal discussion and I never hear any of my friends ever referring to "girl talk" outside the context mentioned.

And yes we have lots of fun talking

Hi Drea!

For many trans-women, we define "girl-talk" because it's something that we've been denied in the past. Because men don't talk about these things, it's kind of a big deal to us! Men probably created the label "girl-talk" because women talk about things that they simply don't feel the need to talk about. As trans-women, we learned that label and coveted such conversations because they weren't social norms for men, yet we wanted to have those discussions! Many of us were likely exposed to negative reactions when we attempted to bring up these subjects in conversations. Therefore, much like many aspects of a transgender person's life, we focus on that which was taboo before!

So, "girl-talk" is simply the normal conversations all women have! It's just that we have put it into a slightly higher place in our minds because we haven't been able to talk like that in an environment that wasn't judgemental toward us until we finally accepted who we are and shrugged off that social pressure!

Hope this helps!

[Drea]

1 hour ago, Cindy Truheart said:

Hi Drea!

For many trans-women, we define "girl-talk" because it's something that we've been denied in the past. Because men don't talk about these things, it's kind of a big deal to us! Men probably created the label "girl-talk" because women talk about things that they simply don't feel the need to talk about. As trans-women, we learned that label and coveted such conversations because they weren't social norms for men, yet we wanted to have those discussions! Many of us were likely exposed to negative reactions when we attempted to bring up these subjects in conversations. Therefore, much like many aspects of a transgender person's life, we focus on that which was taboo before!

So, "girl-talk" is simply the normal conversations all women have! It's just that we have put it into a slightly higher place in our minds because we haven't been able to talk like that in an environment that wasn't judgemental toward us until we finally accepted who we are and shrugged off that social pressure!

Hope this helps!

I appreciate your comments Cindy and I think you touch on some things as far as being important to trans women and men creating the label I would tend to concur with.

Can you however give me examples of things that women talk about that, as you pit it "men don't talk about these things"?

I find that within trans circles, when it comes to discussion about things like "men only do that" or "women do" there is a great deal of echoing gender stereotypes.  This despite all the rhetoric against stereotypes.  Even to the extent of using typical gender norms as a basis for claiming one is a certain gender.

What I tend to find is the discussions of men and women aren't so different in terms of range of topics that may be discussed. 

What I do observe from time to time is trans women doing what they think makes them part of the group which has the opposite effect.  Perhaps most notably is something akin to one saying "we women...." which inevitably is followed by some patented obvious stereotypical statement which may be true but is so un-remarkable to any woman that it just doesn't come up in discussion unless there is something else particularly remarkable about the circumstance.  For example talking about guys looking at their boobs instead of their face or guys talking over them.  Things that are typically new to the trans woman that are simply the way things are thus unremarkable except to the trans woman.

 

[TexasLibraryLady]

I don't find that "girl talk" is necessarily topics so much as just the act of conversing with one or more other women with no men around. It's amazed me how open women can be with each other, even without a close realationship. (I now know my banker's bra size and not because I specifically asked) I also think that for a lot of us there were so many things we couldn't feel comfortable discussing. Sure a lot may be stereotypical but a lot of us tried very hard to hide any aspects ourselves that might reveal our nature.

[Cindy Truheart]

I'd have to agree and echo what Cyndi and the Library Lady said. What cis-women see as topics that don't need comments on, trans-women will turn into a conversation. It's partially because its new to us, partially because it was denied to us, partially because it helps us to feel like we fit in with other women to be discussing topics that only women would discuss.

Imagine being a social outcast. I mean, really being a social outcast! You don't fit in with anyone and you don't know why. Eventually you learn how to fit in with some of them, you learn to fake it so that you at least have someone to talk to. But you aren't like them, so it's not like you really get along with them. But you see others and occasionally overhear them talking. They seem like they are the kind of people you could really connect with, they talk about things you are interested in. But they won't let you in to their social group, they won't talk to you. It's like they have a secret club and you aren't allowed to join. So you watch from a distance and you envy. You try to guess what they are talking about, you try to guess what it must be like to be interested in the same things or have the same concerns.

So after the years have passed and you finally figure out who you are, I think it's reasonable to want to have those discussions with other women, even if other women don't think they are necessary. For someone who has been able to be a woman all their life, talking about yet another man who can't stop looking at their cleavage would be silly because it's happened thousands of times. But for us, it's new. It's confirmation of who we are. It's part of what was denied to us. And we probably think it's something that women always talk about because we've never been allowed in to those conversations. Hell. I'll probably be both complimented and repulsed the first time some guy talks to my boobs instead of me! And I probably will drive my wife nuts talking about it too!

[Aanzinaago'Stephanie]

Linguistically speaking, languages, for the greater part, is patriarchal. After all, in a dictionary, "girl talk" was adapted, but "boy talk" (as example) doesn't exist. It's defined as a conversation that women partake in that is of no interest to men. It's kind of like, in business and politics particularly, hearing a woman using sports as an analogy -- to make a point. To reach an understanding with others, particular approaches are taken, which correspond with a more male-orientated language.

It seems like me that this is more about defining the usage of the word that the actual straight-up application of the term. The latter, is really about conversations that are not interesting to men, usually falling under the stereotypical (makeup, cute boys and why they are cute, periods -- examples). But defining the usage of the word... well, I feel I am falling under the same spell as you are. There is really no point to define a conversation with a label.

I have yet to hear someone say, when talking to my girl friends, that we had girl talk or having girl talk. I've had men excuse themselves out of the conversation because it was "girl stuff", but I always said they are more than welcome to listen and join in our conversation (most of the time they don't, but meh -- that's their choice). Now though, that we are on the subject, I can understand why someone would label their conversation as girl talk when addressing a male audience (singular or plural). Kind of like a guy saying, you won't understand the complexity of car mechanics cause you are a girl (or it's guy stuff). Food for thought, as they say.

As for trans using things out of context, I am not sure if I feel onboard with that. The spectrum of people who say things that can be awkward simply can't be defined as just trans. Cis-gendered equally fall under this. That's my experience anyway.

Love, Stephanie

[Tejana]

Interesting topic.  I really appreciate the manner in which the questions were presented (i.e., a well-proportioned amalgam of catachismal and rhetorical techniques).

Gender/Sex differences, especially as related to speech/language/communication differences was a major interest of mine when I was doing my graduate studies in anthropology & sociology, for a few semesters at least.  I remember doing several class-papers on aspects of the subject based on literature-reviews in fields of anthropology/linguistics, sociology/socio-linguistics, biology/socio-biology, plus a smattering of other academic disciplines.  [Certainly, as indicated in another's post...in my studies, I was certainly well-exposed to the arguments of various feminist ideologues w/ re: to language & patriarchy...arguments which I found quite interesting/insightful.]

Wish I could contribute to the thread, other than to express my appreciation for the topic & the OP's thoughtful posts, but after a few decades of doing other things...I'm afraid I remember nothing significant about my reports. 

Again interesting topic/posts.  Much appreciated. 

[MarcieMarie12]

This is an interesting topic, and what has been great is the other women in the office treating me as a woman. Especially in the "girl talk" conversations. While alot of it is about make up, clothes or relationships--much of it is typical catching up with each others lives. I had an internal laugh when one of our male collegues came in to a conversation and the topic changed (we were talking make up--:) ).

Warning--overly broad generalization here based on my experience, take with a grain of salt

I think the biggest difference between men and women is that men's conversation is more likely to about someone or something,  very factual, and usually very short on details. Women when we talk will discuss how things impact us (not always feelings) and usually go into greater detail.  

[Drea]

Maybe I should have stopped with the initial question.

Can someone give some good examples of "Girl Talk"?

How about getting specific rather than generalities.  Not descriptions of, but examples of.

I had forgotten the tendency to resort to somewhat meaningless abstractions such as "I just want to be myself" used as if it is self evident to all but in fact means very different things to different people.  And I tend to view "girl talk" as one of those abstractions.

I am well away of how trans women value that perceived being an outsider and being kept out of "girl talk" as well as the generalized idea about what it is.

A blog titled "girl talk" is a title, other than expressing it is written by a woman and intended audience of a woman...what in the content genuinely unique "girl talk"?

There are certainly different typical (but not universal) fashions and social graces in the manner of which men talk verses women, but that has very little to do with subject matter or what I feel would make one "girl talk"

 

[Cindy Truheart]

9 minutes ago, Drea said:

Maybe I should have stopped with the initial question.

Can someone give some good examples of "Girl Talk"?

Okay. Back before I "popped my cap" some female friends of ours stopped by one evening and we ended up having what was later termed the 'accidental hen party'. Since I was still presenting as a cis-man (lying so well that I'd convinced myself), I learned later that the ladies thought that I would just wander off when they began getting into certain topics. Not only did I stick around, I joined in when I could. I ended up getting into several conversations in the course of the evening as the alcohol flowed.

In one such conversation we talked about an outfit one woman had just purchased. She showed pictures to everyone and we all talked about the colors, the accessories, and what hair style would best compliment her features in that outfit. A man would have run from that conversation and counted himself lucky to shut himself away in another room!

In another conversation I found myself talking with a woman about her new boyfriend. She wanted him to be more of a 'take charge' kind of guy and she wanted advice about how to let him know that without scaring him away. I told her how a lot of men dial back certain aspects about their personality so that they don't scare away women they are really interested in. She told me about all the things she had said or done to give him the hints so that he would know she wanted him to take charge more. I told her the easiest way to get him to start acting natural was to just tell him! Apparently she had thought about doing that, but didn't want to come off wrong or seem like she was a push over. I told her that she needed to tell him and at least try to get him to understand because if she didn't she'd end up with nothing but contempt for him if he kept acting that way with her. A man would have given her a one sentence bit of advice and then been confused/annoyed when she still wanted to talk about it!

There were other conversations that I didn't participate in, like when one girl happened to mention that she went and got fitted for a bra and finally bought one that was actually comfortable! But when one of them caught sight of me out of the corner of her eye she declared that I didn't want to hear women talking about how their bra fit. So the subject was changed even though I hadn't lodged a protest and the conversation moved on. A man would have either been long gone or would have made some comment about liking tits and then moved on.

[tracy_j]

The subject of girl talk confuses me a little as I just find it normal conversation. I remember a time a few years ago when I was at an away day at a presentation with work and, typically, found myself on a table full of women. They were talking, typically female subjects and, I think, initially treated me as an outsider. When I joined in their conversation, giving my own experiences in the same way I was soon accepted. Although I was male (but very feminine with my makeup) .

Another time a woman mentioned her looks and I mentioned mine with respect to makeup. She was momentarily surprised, but that changed the complexion of the conversation totally. We talked 'girl to girl', even though she was not aware at the time of 'Tracy'. I was not ashamed of wearing my makeup and being open in a femine way, even as male.

I think it does get a lot more uncertain when the conversation gets intimate but that is not something I come across much. I also find it tricky to handle relationships as well when husbands are mentioned. I can talk about men but not easily my female partner (I am talking from my female side now). It is good that I can talk about children though with my son (just don't ask the birthweight which a woman may well be likely to know though!).

I think though, it is mainly down to being open in who you are (or at least that is my experience). Don't be nervous about being a woman. If that is what you are - be her!

One thing that did amuse me however, was when a female friend of my best friend said when she visited one Saturday afternoon when we meet - 'I will leave you to your men talk'. She has mentioned it other times. Obviously just a saying but 'men talk' does exist as well

Tracy

[Sakura]

Depends on the women and the context and the situation I suppose. I have heard natal women use the term "girl talk" a work friend of mine invited me out one night as she had a night away from her small son. Her exact words to me were " I could just use some girl talk" it ended up being  drunken banter at best.

I guess another example that would be specific to women. Period talk. Growing up I lived in a house with 2 older sisters and my mom.... They were like ninjas hiding that, so much so that I thought it was kinda a myth.... post transition and deep stealth. I seem to know when every single woman around me is on their monthlies. Even mentioning the word will dredge up endless bitching and horror stories. Particularly at my job... being as the job is fairly physical in nature it causes periods to be extremely messy and last longer than usual. Like I now know that it is standard practice to wear both a extra absorbent tampon AND a pad or as my one work girl friends put it, it ends up looking like a Viking raid took place down there.

One girl I was working with casually asked me why I havn't had kids yet. I just joked that "Babies thrash your body" I literally got an hour long talking too about both the miracle and the horrors of squeezing another human being out of your vagina in extremely graphic detail.

Or I could tell you countless stories about the extremely bizarre conversations that will asrise from mentioning the word "Sex" around a woman or a group of women that have not been laid in a while. Depravity that would make most men blush.

I am not sure if these examples are genuinely examples of "girl talk" but I have been living as one long enough to know that it is not talk women causally have with men.

[Guest]

I truly believe that you will get a large variety of variation in such a broad question. I feel 'girl talk' is whatever females choose to talk about that they're not as likely to mention to or around guys.  

[Guest]

Me? Ha! I've been doing it for years when able. And since starting transition, I have many girlfriends, both close and acquainted. At functions, I've ALWAYS gravitated more towards the female rather than male groups. LOL

I see it like people asking which hobbies they must give up to transition to female. NOTHING!

No such thing as a male/female hobby!!  

[Dakota16]

35 minutes ago, Fiona said:

I truly believe that you will get a large variety of variation in such a broad question. I feel 'girl talk' is whatever females choose to talk about that they're not as likely to mention to or around guys.  

Well said! I've always classified "girl talk" as a conversation that men either just don't want to hear (periods, pads, yeast infections, etc.) or not very interested in (last night's Grey's Anatomy, makeup, manicures/pedicures, and so on).

That's probably over simplistic, but guy me liked simple and straightforward since that was about all I could handle.

[Guest CLAIRE100]

7 hours ago, Fiona said:

I truly believe that you will get a large variety of variation in such a broad question. I feel 'girl talk' is whatever females choose to talk about that they're not as likely to mention to or around guys.  

exactly!

[Guest Lizzie McTrucker]

Girl talk is simply conversations among and between women of female-centric topics that guys find boring. 
That's it in a nutshell. 

[Guest]

On 02/22/2017 at 7:40 PM, Sakura said:

Depends on the women and the context and the situation I suppose. I have heard natal women use the term "girl talk" a work friend of mine invited me out one night as she had a night away from her small son. Her exact words to me were " I could just use some girl talk" it ended up being  drunken banter at best.

I guess another example that would be specific to women. Period talk. Growing up I lived in a house with 2 older sisters and my mom.... They were like ninjas hiding that, so much so that I thought it was kinda a myth.... post transition and deep stealth. I seem to know when every single woman around me is on their monthlies. Even mentioning the word will dredge up endless bitching and horror stories. Particularly at my job... being as the job is fairly physical in nature it causes periods to be extremely messy and last longer than usual. Like I now know that it is standard practice to wear both a extra absorbent tampon AND a pad or as my one work girl friends put it, it ends up looking like a Viking raid took place down there.

One girl I was working with casually asked me why I havn't had kids yet. I just joked that "Babies thrash your body" I literally got an hour long talking too about both the miracle and the horrors of squeezing another human being out of your vagina in extremely graphic detail.

Or I could tell you countless stories about the extremely bizarre conversations that will asrise from mentioning the word "Sex" around a woman or a group of women that have not been laid in a while. Depravity that would make most men blush.

I am not sure if these examples are genuinely examples of "girl talk" but I have been living as one long enough to know that it is not talk women causally have with men.

That pretty much covers my list. I most enjoy the intimacy I had never know before. Talking about babies, motherhood, functional life and health issues. Just stuff I would seldom if ever I would want to speak about to, or around men. When we talk about roller derby there are a wide variety of topics almost never in the context of men. In women's AA meetings men suffer under the delusion that we talk about them. NOT! It's our feelings, our struggles, our sisterhood supportiveness. All absolutely free of anything male. Lizzie cut to the chase, I like her answer too.