This one thing has been bugging me !

[jae bear]

There is this one guy at work who I actually quite like, he’s an older gentleman and always quite nice, but lately he’s getting on my nerves. Initially he was very accepting when I came out to everyone in the company, but lately he’s been a pain in the butt, he was in my office lately telling me he won’t consider me a woman until after my bottom surgery,  I wasn’t sure what to tell him other than not to worry about the broken little marshmallow in my pants and start calling me the proper pronouns and my proper name as I asked him to. He’s been pestering me a little here or there the last few days, maybe he’s just in a bad mood, but his little comments are starting to really bug me. I don’t want to be all bitchy about it, as I’m not typically that girl, but it’s getting under my skin. Before I left work today  I stood in the warehouse directly in front of him and had a face-to-face conversation that was as professional as I could manage. I told him that he needs to be pleasant and act professional, that he needs to treat me properly and I’ve asked him nicely to use proper pronouns and proper name, and that it bothers me greatly when he uses my dead name or purposefully finds ways to use the wrong pronouns. I think I’ve had just about enough Of his shenanigans, but I don’t want to write him up for misconduct when I could find a way to discuss this with him and get him to understand it’s important to me. Does anyone have any suggestions as it’s hard for me to deal with this when I’m so frustrated with him, I don’t wanna say the wrong thing and cause trouble but I really would like people to be respectful. I get that he’s older and almost 70 which makes quite a difference in the way someone perceives the whole transgender thing,   But he seems rather obstinate about his current course of action. If anyone has suggestions I am all ears, I’m doing my best to exercise my listening powers and my skills of negotiation without rocking the boat at work. 

 Hugs, 

  Jackie 

[tracy_j]

I think you have a difficult one here. There are a few people I know like this, but at least he has stated that he can see a time when he would see things differently.  My usual take is to ignore things as far as possible as people are allowed to have their opinions, and as you imply, he grew up at a time when such things were rarely in the open. I think the main thing, as far as you are concerned, is perhaps that he use your new name. It is a choice to have a name, and there would be no reason for anyone not to have any reasonable name they choose, male or female. It is though a case of give and take (legal issues aside). If you are at opposing sides then one of you will likely end up leaving and the both sore at the bad result. You have told him what he needs to do, but that will have likely put his back up. You really need to work together toward a compromise. In the long term these problems with him will be history. A short term gain with big risk may not be a good option, but only you will see that picture.

 

Tracy

[jae bear]

 Hi Tracy, 

I very much don’t wanna cause trouble at work, and a short term gain doesn’t seem like it would be well won since I’ll be forcing him to comply.  I felt I was easy on the subject yesterday when he said my dead name for the fifth time to my face, it felt like he was doing it on purpose. Nobody ever says my name to my face that many times inside two minutes, but he was making a point of it and it started really getting under my skin. That and he wasn’t being nice at all about other subjects. I normally do the shop payroll on Tuesdays but it is not due until Thursday, the previous person that did payroll never distributed checks until Thursday but I’ve just been nice and doing it right away. Our company has seen a tremendous slow down due to the season and things are tight so we’re being very careful, all paychecks have to fall on their distribution date so I can be sure everything gets paid on time. It certainly didn’t help that it was the end of the month and all sorts of things came do including lots of things that of been held off since the end of last quarter and had come due at the end of July. This is nothing new to many of the people who work here including him, but I think he was just in a bad mood otherwise and being a butt to me was something he felt like doing.  I’ve had some people flip-flop on their acceptance, some people were very accepting in the beginning  only to become less so later, or to become absolutely not accepting later. Why this flip-flop? I’ve seen it from loved ones, friends and acquaintances, I don’t believe I have changed to a point that they felt they needed to alter their perception of me,  but then again I have been changing visually recently so who knows. 

  Hugs, 

 Jackie 

[Kirsten]

This guy sounds like a tool. I am not even gonna think about giving advice on this because I’d get myself in trouble I think. 

I have noticed some flip flopping with my transition too though. Both ways actually. I think people hear trans and they want to accept it because it’s the “popular” thing to do right now. Similar to when people started coming out as gay back in the day or even with black people before that. But then they see what it really is and they realize that although they’re okay with you doing it, they don’t want it to project poorly on them. Not that it would but it’s that whole fear thing. I think time will fix some of that. 

But sorry about your dink coworker. That’s a real pain. I’m sure I’ll be dealing with it soon too. Tomorrow’s out at work day! 

Kirsten 

[Jani]

8 hours ago, jae bear said:

telling me he won’t consider me a woman until after my bottom surgery,

Your body is none of his business, just as his body in none of yours.

 

Jani

[Cyndee]

Ya know people know this can be a cheap attack vector (dead name / wrong pronouns), sorry it's a really cruel world. I have to say, it's probably a bit more common for older males to engage in this type of behavior toward a MTF.

 

Recommend desensitizing one's self to words, especially the dead name.

 

Once your legal name is in place you have a little more leverage in a professional setting or raising the issue with HR for example.

 

Most of the time you have to be able to let it go, or suffer needlessly.....

 

Be well

 

C -

[Carolyn Marie]

1 hour ago, Jani said:

Your body is none of his business, just as his body in none of yours.

 

Jani

 

Jani,you took the words right out of my mouth.  I would have told him to his face that IF and WHEN i had any surgery, he wouldn't not only be the last person to know, no one would know because its a legal privacy issue.

 

I suggest getting whatever company policies are in place and then sitting down with him for a one on one.  Explain what the policies (if any) apply, give him a copy, and tell him politely but firmly that he has had more than enough time to adjust his attitude and behavior, and then explain what the result of NOT adjusting his attitude and behavior will be.

 

I would also explain that he can have whatever opinion of you he wants to have.  You can't make him feel one way or another about it.  It isn't his beliefs or opinions that matter, its his workplace behavior.  That behavior is what is causing the problem, and nothing else.  I

 

If you let him continue to denigrate you in front of others, it lowers your status and reduces your authority, and as a supervisor, that is something you can't afford to tolerate.  You should, of course, discuss all of this with HR and document everything in writing.

 

Carolyn Marie

[BrandiBri]

Julie, the advice given is spot on. Both jani and Carolyn Marie are correct, you are under no obligation to disclose to anyone what surgeries you choose to have.

 

Brandi

[PaulaPlaytex]

I'm retired now...When I worked, I always wore my Bra, I'm a Natural 46B/C-Cup (With Matching Panties)...Co-Workers were O.K. with my (Bra) wearing.

[Jani]

OK Paula, I'll bite.  What does your response have to do with the subject of this thread?

 

Jani

[MaryEllen]

It's a rule of forum etiquette. One does not go off topic or hijack another's thread.

 

MaryEllen

[jae bear]

 Hey BrandI,

 I totally agree that I shouldn’t have to feel the need to explain my surgeries to everyone at work, it was just kind of stupid of this one person to voice his opinion that way, and while he is entitled to his opinion voicing it to me after I have said I would prefer that he did not really puts the pressure on him to act more professionally, as he could definitely get himself in trouble for voicing his opinion opinion where it does not belong especially after he has been warned not to do so. Bad behavior like that has gotten more than one person in hot water with their employer, and it’s no different where I work so I’m hoping that he moves off this topic, I haven’t said anything yet but if he persists and continually pesters me about it I will definitely have to take matters into my own hands and run it up the chain of command until the problem is solved.  The other part of me wants him to understand the struggle I face, and that his ridiculous persistence is harmful to me, even if I so easily laugh it off and don’t create an issue about it, I feel like he should be keeping this opinion to himself and not placing his burden of disbelief upon me in that way.  This silly perpetuated falsehood that only women have vaginas bugs me, there are plenty of women who are built differently and know precisely who they are, they don’t feel the need to own a vagina but they know they are woman and that’s all there is to it,  they are just as valid as a woman as anyone else even if his opinion does little to change that fact. I do not like that he feels he needs to place his qualifications for womanhood upon me, I feel like suggesting that if he is so comfortable with his masculinity he should come down to the salon with me sit in the chair to my right and figure out what color he’d like to wear for a week... my point being that if you choose to do so or if I had a friend that like to do so and that person was mail I wouldn’t question his masculinity in the slightest, I’m sure there are man who enjoy going to the salon just like I do, why should such a small and insignificant qualification bump us from  our genders?  It seems like society on the whole does not allow too many choices outside the norm when considering gender but at the same time they won’t allow the thought of someone being differently gendered even when all the signs point in that direction. If this theoretical mail that like to finger nail polish was otherwise purely masculine why would anyone consider him anything but a man? And in the same regard why wouldn’t someone consider a girl  Pearleaf email based on the fact that she operates in the world in every possible way every single day as a woman word, and that she identifies as being a woman and tells everyone this, she changes her name and her legal identity and only wear his clothing from the women’s department, why then does anyone have the right to try to qualify her gender as a woman because of a simple common medical fact, not owning a vagina doesn’t seem like it needs to be the single only qualifying aspect of being a woman...

 Hugs, 

Jackie

[Cyndee]

31 minutes ago, jae bear said:

The other part of me wants him to understand the struggle I face

 

 

Hi Jackie, I totally agree with the others that your personal medical status has nothing to do with your work and should not be even be a topic there, in our business it's forbidden and discouraged to discuss a person's medical information, our organization classifies these topics as "strictly confidential". 

 

Regarding the quote above, give up any notions of trying to enlighten an old crusty bigot, OK ? It's an exercise in futility and the empathy well is probably dry. In most cases I'd wager you won't bring them around, save your energy being the best you can be. When the old crusty bigots see how happy you are being yourself, that communicates far more effectively, actions will speak louder than words.

 

Good luck at work Jackie

 

C -

[BrandiBri]

You mentioned that he is almost 70. I would assume that he will be retiring soon. I realize that it makes no difference now, but at least you probably won't have to put up with him for long. I agree with CindiRae, you won't change him with words, only by being yourself. Hang in there, girl, things are going well. Don't let one ignorant person bring you down.

 

Hugs,

Brandi

[jae bear]

 I completely agree with you CindiRae and Brandi, I don’t really expect to get through to him and I don’t have any delusions regarding changing his mind I just wish he would stop voicing his opinion because he’s going to end up getting himself in trouble and I don’t want to see that either. I would also like to apologize for my absolutely terrible post above, I thought I reread that but apparently I either need new glasses or need to stop posting at three in the morning! I’m not sure how much longer he’ll be with the company but I know he is unable to retire for many personal reasons and he has talked to management about staying on as long as he can, personally I like the fellow I just see his obstinance in this one particular area and I’m probably being overly sensitive about it and taking it too personally as honestly he probably is just as being an old codger and not trying to get under my skin, he just isn’t that type. Oddly enough he was the most receptive person in the company when I came out to everyone, It might just be that he’s so comfortable talking to me that he thinks it’s OK to bring this personal opinion up with me and isn’t thinking that it would hurt my feelings. I really don’t wanna see him get in trouble, and I have asked him politely to be nice about this and to keep his opinions to himself in this regard but he has since stepped over that line once and I’m hoping it doesn’t happen anymore...  I do know that if I kept calling him by the wrong pronoun I would get in serious trouble and most likely be reprimanded.

My new career move has me a bit worried though, while I could still pull a modest salary from my current company because I own the patents for our products and I own the brand names we use the company that I’m considering working for while still consulting with my current employer uses my current employer extensively as a vendor. This potential new employer would  want me to take over their materials purchasing department, something that I am extremely good at as I’ve been making their parts for over 20 years and I know materials inside and out, it’s one of the things I am really really good at. My concern is that this potential new employer does not know I am trans, and the people who would hire me have known me for 20 years and I don’t have a solid idea which side of the fence they stand on in this regard. I know that if I started working with them I would be very careful to only work there in boy mode, which means no nail polish, yuck.  Yet just one more reason not to get gel nail polish, I guess I could make a regular Friday habit of having my nails done when I get home from work or I could hit up my regular girl Saturday morning but I think it’s probably pretty busy in there around that time. I would think after being at that new place of employment for several months I would need to come out to their HR department and explain to some degree, and I would most likely also invite the person I know that got me through the door and has been a customer of mine for 20+ years to sit in on that HR meeting. I would like to think that if I did an extremely good job and was very reliable everything would work out, but there is one reality I must consider, it’s possible that I would be let go from my position at this new company and that that company would stop placing orders with my current employer altogether which  would be an absolutely devastating thing for me in general as I believe at that point I would have little to no income whatsoever. I did a little bit of test job applications to see what responses were like, and after receiving a handful of rejections for positions I was so overqualified for it would be ridiculous to be turned down for them,  I realize that for something as simple as putting non-binary on my job application it appears I got an automatic rejection, I was rather hopeful this would not happen as there were multiple pages of disclaimers stating how the company does not discriminate, even specifically about race sex and gender, but it looks like it’s just boilerplate from the legal department, in reality, even in the Northern California bay area, it can still be a bigoted and discriminating place.  I suppose I could not tell my perspective new employer anything at all until I have to go for FFS, but then I see a potential problem with that too, no warning about an upcoming medical need to schedule time away from work with HR could lead to scheduling conflicts that would have me losing my job anyway, I’d much rather have an employer that knew my needs and was willing to work with me than one I had to fear...

 Hugs, 

 Jackie