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Threatened on the street


ToniTone

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Cw: hate speech, violence. I'll try to be non-triggering and subtle with my telling of what happened... 

 

 

 

 

 

So a couple nights ago at around 7:30pm, I had just got off work and was walking downtown to my bus stop to get home. I was dressed out and made up as I regularly do now. 

 

This man started following me and shouted "You're a little b-! I'll f- you up, you little b-!". I flicked him off and kept walking, he kept following. He said "Flick me off again, see what happen!" So I turned around, flicked him off again with more gusto and shouted something like "Yeah, I am that b-! And if you don't step back, I'll leave where I find you! F- off!" He kept mumbling threatening things and following more slowly. I picked up my pace and got to my bus stop safely. 

 

I wouldn't recommend responding the way I did. I learned Muay Thai and been a lot of fights on the street when I was younger. Part of me wished he would've tried something so I could drop him right there. I definitely felt that dormant, raging beast in me creeping out. But I'm trying to grow more soft, calm and peaceful in my transition. And of course I didn't want to risk getting hurt. So I could've handled it better, but at least I didn't get physically attacked or hurt. 

 

I don't know what to say else. It kinda has me shook and provoked. I know trans women are susceptible to attack. But now I'm real aware of it personally. I'm going to be more careful from now on...

 

Stay safe lovely's ?

~Toni

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I’m glad to hear you are okay and it didn’t come to violence. I would imagine that would be a very scary encounter regardless of training.  Stay safe. 
 

*hugs*
 

Sara

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Thanks Sara! ?

 

It was kinda scary. It had me shook up and on edge. It was a relief to get home safe.

 

It was the first threat I recieved. I can only hope it won't happen again, but I doubt it's the last. I'm gonna keep transitioning and being the woman I am, and the world is gonna continue to have jerks in it... 

It's a cruel world out there. 

 

Just please, whatever you do, stay safe lovely's ?

~Toni

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  • Admin

I have been in that kind of situation myself and know the Adrenalin withdrawal routine very well.  Women do get to see the worst from males. Even though you say you have martial arts training, I would still suggest a women's self defense class to get you used to a female reaction to things.  Texas just had a really ugly case where the attacker of a Trans woman tried to get a lesser sentence because "it was two males fighting" and not a male attacking a female.  I am glad you did come-out of it with only a stress headache.

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  • Admin

Toni, like the others have said, I'm so glad that you are safe.  Have you seen that jerk before in that area?  You could report it to the police (not necessarily for a report, but more for their awareness that there is a problem in that neighborhood).

 

One thing I do, and recommend, is to carry Mace or pepper spray as a defensive weapon.  You should still do as you did and find safety, but if you don't have that option, or are physically attacked, it can be very effective.  But I don't know if Minnesota allows folks to carry that.  Bear repellent is an even more effective type of Mace.  I've carried some in my bag for years and never had to use it, but its comforting to know its there.  Stay safe, hon.

 

Carolyn Marie

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Thanks y'all! 

 

It's kinda a problem area for riffraff, but it's also high traffic downtown. I can probably avoid that particular stretch of street without being too inconvenienced. 

 

I actually helped teach a self-defense course for women! I was the one wearing foot thick padding getting kicked in the groin, lol!

 

I don't know if it's legal here or not, but alot of people carry pepper spray here, alot of smoke shops sell it. I've even heard police officers verbally approve of women carrying it. My gf does after she got attacked. I'm pretty sure bear mace is illegal here.

 

There's this small keychain device I want to get for my gf and me. When one presses the button, it makes a like 180 dB loud screaming siren as a detterent and alert. 

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I'm trying to not need to resort to my old offensive style fighting and skills. 

 

I want what we all want to exist and live our lives in peace... 

 

~Toni

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  • Forum Moderator

I'm pretty good at backpedaling as the best defense.  Over time i've found running causes fewer injuries than confrontation.

It is a pity that some men seem to feel they can say and do what they want when dealing with women.  45 is certainly an example of that mindset.  

While carrying weapons could help as a final resort the chances of hurting others or being hurt myself makes prudence preferable.

I'm fortunate to be able to avoid situations where i'm threatened and a woman that seems necessary.

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize

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Just a word of caution about carrying mace or pepper spray: once temperatures get cold, the spray does not atomize well and is much less effective. Using your head and staying alert is still the best defensive weapon.

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A can of hair spray is quite effective, better yet is the wasp spray that shoots up to 20 feet, either one that gets in an attacker's eyes will result in his trip to the nearest ER and neither of them is considered a weapon.

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Thank you for your advice y'all! I agree, avoiding and escaping dangerous situations is the best course of action if it's possible. 

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  • 3 months later...

The world can be an ugly place at times.  Sometimes the best defense against being a victim is to not be a victim.  And this is what you did.  You showed the potential perpetrator that you were willing and able to protect yourself. And while he may have still followed you some and muttered stuff, he chose to back off.  And that is simply because you stood up for yourself.

 

I believe in avoiding violence when possible. But if it comes one’s way, one needs to be prepared for it.  

 

As a student of the martial ways, this is a favorite anecdote from Chinese lore:

 

Master and student walked side by side through a beautiful garden. The student suddenly stops and asks: “Master, you talk about the ways of peace. Yet I have learned from you deadly techniques of combat and the tactics of war. How do you reconcile the two?” The master gracefully squats, chooses a flower and plucks it. “My student, it is better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.”

 

 

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On 10/23/2019 at 5:46 PM, ToniTone said:

I wouldn't recommend responding the way I did. I learned Muay Thai and been a lot of fights on the street when I was younger. Part of me wished he would've tried something so I could drop him right there. I definitely felt that dormant, raging beast in me creeping out. But I'm trying to grow more soft, calm and peaceful in my transition. And of course I didn't want to risk getting hurt. So I could've handled it better, but at least I didn't get physically attacked or hurt. 

 

I do not know self defense techniques, but I have encountered similar threatening situations because I have lived in unsafe areas. This may be hard to believe, but when I encounter someone mouthing off at me, my best tactic is just to ignore them. If I feel it is necessary to retort with an insult or with some obscenity, it almost always results in an escalation in the confrontation. I realize this a much more passive response but 9 times out of 10, I find it ends the conflict. The perpetrator feeds on my desire to retaliate. If he doesn't get it, then the excitement is lost for him. Of course I realize there are just some situations where my tactic would not work and certainly some of the previous suggestions about carrying mace would be in order. I just thought I would share this because I am usually not a naturally aggressive person.

 

Hugs,

 

Robin

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Forum Moderator
On 1/29/2020 at 10:38 PM, Jennifer T said:

As a student of the martial ways, this is a favorite anecdote from Chinese lore:

 

Master and student walked side by side through a beautiful garden. The student suddenly stops and asks: “Master, you talk about the ways of peace. Yet I have learned from you deadly techniques of combat and the tactics of war. How do you reconcile the two?” The master gracefully squats, chooses a flower and plucks it. “My student, it is better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.”

 

 

 

I have not read it all but there are some very useful lines from Chinese, particularly Sun Tzu in 'The Art of War'. Maybe originally for conquest but the ideas of winning without fighting, or essentially avoiding physical conflict, are well worth thinking about. I shall have to make time to read further as, at least I find, these words improve my state of mind and make me think. Improved confidence and relaxed emotions. A useful quote Jennifer.

 

Tracy

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17 hours ago, tracy_j said:

 

I have not read it all but there are some very useful lines from Chinese, particularly Sun Tzu in 'The Art of War'. Maybe originally for conquest but the ideas of winning without fighting, or essentially avoiding physical conflict, are well worth thinking about. I shall have to make time to read further as, at least I find, these words improve my state of mind and make me think. Improved confidence and relaxed emotions. A useful quote Jennifer.

 

Tracy

Indeed!

 

While it may seem ironic, those most truly able to choose to deal peacefully with a potentially violent situation are those who a adept at violence.  There’s another saying:

 

“A Harmless Man Is Not a Good Man. a Good Man Is a Very Dangerous Man Who Has That Under Voluntary Control.”

 

Truly, only a person who can be both peaceful and violent can really choose to be peaceful. 

 

Peace

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On 2/11/2020 at 9:44 PM, Suzanne1 said:

I was taught by my spouse and similar individuals that the only true weapon that we possess resides in the space between our ears.  Guns, clubs, knives, and hair or wasp spray are only tools.  The brain is the real weapon, and it can be used either offensively or defensively.

Well said, Suzanne1. In my estimation, the worst thing that can happen to me is to allow my enemies free rent in my head. When I encounter people who are hostile to my gender makeover or just plain homophobes, I know I do not have the power to change their attitudes toward me. I therefore, cannot "teach them a lesson". I cannot wage a purposeful war by weaponizing my body. And frankly, I find it a major obstacle to getting in touch with my femininity.  My best strategy is to put distance between them and me. But I do think carrying a can of mace may be appropriate in some situations. I recognize that for other's, choosing to weaponize their bodies may feel empowering. Different strokes for different folks. I am in no position to say what is best for someone else.

 

Hugs,

 

Robin68

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  • 1 year later...
On 10/23/2019 at 7:46 PM, ToniTone said:

Cw: hate speech, violence. I'll try to be non-triggering and subtle with my telling of what happened... 

 

 

 

 

 

So a couple nights ago at around 7:30pm, I had just got off work and was walking downtown to my bus stop to get home. I was dressed out and made up as I regularly do now. 

 

This man started following me and shouted "You're a little b-! I'll f- you up, you little b-!". I flicked him off and kept walking, he kept following. He said "Flick me off again, see what happen!" So I turned around, flicked him off again with more gusto and shouted something like "Yeah, I am that b-! And if you don't step back, I'll leave where I find you! F- off!" He kept mumbling threatening things and following more slowly. I picked up my pace and got to my bus stop safely. 

 

I wouldn't recommend responding the way I did. I learned Muay Thai and been a lot of fights on the street when I was younger.

 

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On 10/23/2019 at 7:46 PM, ToniTone said:

I learned Muay Thai and been a lot of fights on the street when I was younger.

I think part of my “getting back into shape” is going to have to include more martial arts training. My new favorite heels are 4” tall and they zip up. 
 

There will be no “flight” in my fight or flight response while wearing those shoes.

 

I can run in 3” heels… not the 4”.

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  • Forum Moderator

Not a terrible plan. If you mule-kick a dude in 4" stilettos... well, you just stabbed a dude.

 

One of the things about the pandemic, is that a friend of mine offered to teach me some self-defense but she's REALLY at risk so we can't do it until the background COVID dies down some more.

 

Hugs!

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  • 2 weeks later...

I do not know. I am not too worried about a confrontation right now as I have the weight and stature to mess someone up fairly well. With that said, there are always unexpected variables like maybe the person knows more about martial arts than you do. What if you wind up falling and break an arm, your leg, or bust out your teeth? There will come a time dieting and exercise go according to plan, I may be much more vulnerable. 

 

I was speaking to someone at a plastic surgeon's office today about facial feminization surgery (FFS). Over the years I have seen a number of transgender patients who have been assaulted. I have taken care of some who have died from their injuries. I have to wonder about the current pathways about recommending that we go through the RLT dressing and working in our chosen gender. We do so and let's be honest, while we can dress, we can also be targets for derision. We may face physical or verbal abuse. I have to wonder if there are not better ways or pathways. Logically in my brain, I wonder if we should have FFS first, then the RLT. Now I know some will scoff at that idea because that is not the way thing are currently done. What would be the worst if you did have the FFS first?

 

One of the things that makes me wonder is the cost of FFS. When I spoke with the surgeon's office, the navigator I spoke with discussed that some of the insurance companies will cover the costs and some won't. The issue of medical necessity has come up. I would counter that the necessity is in that having a face that is congruous to the expected gender of the individual is a safety factor and acceptance factor.

 

We are a visual Society for the most part. Appearance, whether we admit it or not, is a factor in acceptance, rejection, hazing, or harassment. FFS then becomes a necessary thing for acceptance and belonging. The are two of the cornerstones of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Just me spitballing here. You tell me, would the RLT be easier if our faces looked more feminine from the start? Just something to ponder. 

 

Sincerely

Katie

 

 

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1 hour ago, Katie23 said:

 Just me spitballing here. You tell me, would the RLT be easier if our faces looked more feminine from the start? Just something to ponder. 

 

 

I know quite a few gender therapists in the area and elsewhere, and am familiar with the Standards of Care, and I can say pretty authoritatively that a Real Life Test is no longer required by any legitimate and up to date therapist or physician, and is not even mentioned in Version 7 of the WPATH Standards of Care.

 

For some, FFS is important, if not essential.  Pursuing it can be expensive, difficult and painful, and it is a very personal decision.  In most large cities experienced FFS surgeons are easy to find, and consultations are often provided at minimal cost.  Tax deductions for FFS are still not (to my knowledge) allowed by the IRS, nor by most insurance companies.  A nose job probably wouldn't cost a fortune, but many get multiple procedures, and it can add up fast.  But none of it is required in order to transition, either socially, medically or surgically.

 

Carolyn Marie

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1 hour ago, Carolyn Marie said:

 

a Real Life Test is no longer required by any legitimate and up to date therapist or physician, and is not even mentioned in Version 7 of the WPATH Standards of Care.

 

They don't call it a Real Life Test any more, but they do mention 12 months of living in the gender role.

Quote

Criteria for metoidioplasty or phalloplasty in FtM patients and for vaginoplasty in MtF patients:

...(1-5)...
6.  12 continuous months of living in a gender role that is congruent with the patient’s identity.

 

SOC v7, p. 202

 

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Oh, okay, that is what I thought then. I was told that the insurers like to see the documentation before approval. I have two different insurers because of my jobs, and with pre-approval processes, they will cover the vaginoplasty. I have a lot to do over the next six months.

 

Sincerely

Katie

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Hello everybody!

 

First of all I'm sorry @ToniTone to hear about your encounter and wish you all well!

 

Since this is my first post, I suppose a small introduction would be in order. I'm Helena, an early middle-aged transgender woman next door from north pole. I'm still waiting to start my physical transition. Thanks to COVID things drag behind. I've had my fair share of violence because of my profession and I tell you what I've learned.

 

First and foremost of all, know yourself and your capabilities. 

For example, I like to do some mental exercising where I imagine I've been clocked and bullied. I think all the nasty things they say to me and make a note of my emotions and reactions for them. I'll ask myself "Can I cope with it? Can I remain calm and rational?" I'm planning to train with a friend I trust during HRT (if I think I can handle it) to shout nasty things in my face and see again how do I feel and react to them. 

I do it, because this is the most likely threatening event that will happen to me in the future, and I need to know how do I respond. Because if I can't handle verbal abuse in a safe environment, how can I expect to cope in a real situation. Naturally I'm also doing physical and martial exercising. The scenario is that I'm always the under dog. Outnumbered and in disadvantaged situation (and I'm constantly getting my butt kicked 🤣).

 

When doing these kind of exercises, it is extremely important to listen to yourself and your emotions. You need to have a way to calm yourself down (e.g. breathing exercises) if your feelings get the best of you. Being honest to yourself is paramount. If you cannot handle an exercise, take a step back and do something lighter. There's no shame in that.

 

This kind of mental exercising will throw you out from your comfort zone, so don't overdo it so you won't be mentally exhausted or depressed.

 

When you know yourself, you can device a defense strategy for yourself. My absolute favorite is Plan and Avoid 🤣. If that fails, I'll try to take the initiative (very HARD if you're behind, like you probably will be in a violent encounter), hit and run.

 

I hope all well to you and be safe people! Hugs ❤️

Helena

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