Gender dysphoria vs. generic body image

[pastelcryptid]

TW/CW for potential - at least discussion of - dysphoria and specific body parts



I thought this might be the best place for this since dysphoria when you're nonbinary - which I am - is often trickier to identify, if you do have it. I guess it's more of a question than anything, does anyone else have generic body issues (i.e. not the "ideal" weight/body shape for their assigned gender) that make it hard to distinguish whether body negativity is about gender or about The Ideal? To specify an example, my breasts aren't very "photogenic" when I'm shirtless and braless, and they often make clothes shopping difficult when I'm presenting as feminine because they don't always sit in the way that's attractive or comfortable. I sometimes feel like I want them gone, or out of the way. I can't know how I'd feel if they looked "perfect", but I put that down to negative body image (and just boobs being Awkward) rather than dysphoria. But then other times, on days I'm identifying as masculine I also feel I want them gone. But I don't always want them gone, which again makes sense being genderfluid, but its tricky to identify that divide between "I dislike my breasts because of my gender identity" and "I dislike my breasts because they're not photogenic". 

On the other hand, if my feelings about my chest are just body image problems, then it's trickier to justify how I feel about my genitalia. I've never liked the area. Aside from keeping hygienic, I don't really like to touch it or look at it. Although I have no plan to ever surgically transition, in contrast to the confused feelings about my chest, I have actually specifically felt a desire for a penis instead since I was a child. Sometimes I feel like something is "missing" down there. I've strongly considered getting a packer to see how it feels. I've tried soft packing for like, a few minutes just to see how it felt and it was a positive feeling, although I was nervous. Also in contrast to the way I feel about my chest, I don't consider it to be an objective issue with the way my genitalia looks compared to other people with vaginas, and I don't have a negative opinion of vaginas look/feel on other people. It's just my own. So, is that dysphoria? 

Obviously, the answer might be that it's both body image (about my chest) and dysphoria (about my genitalia) but my main question is, does anybody else have trouble distinguishing between the two?

[SaraAW]

That is tricky, if it was tied to a specific general cross gender anatomy preference, I would say it probably is dysphoria, if it's more a I wish this was prettier or handsomer, maybe more of a dysmorphia thing. If you have a therapist, I would say that this is something you should definitely explore with them. Also, maybe experiment a little more, try packing, try stuffing try minimizing. See what feels right and if it really depends on which gender you're feeling more attached to at that moment in time, maybe you need to have several options available so you can tweak things as needed.

 

For me, being MtF, it's pretty clear for me that the parts I have issues with are related to dysphoria. Once I develop some more clearly feminine features as a result of HRT, it may get messy and become a blend of the two.

 

Hope you can find some relief in how you feel, as regardless of what's the cause and it's name, it sucks when it rears its head. Hugs!

[KayC]

9 hours ago, pastelcryptid said:

I guess it's more of a question than anything, does anyone else have generic body issues (i.e. not the "ideal" weight/body shape for their assigned gender) that make it hard to distinguish whether body negativity is about gender or about The Ideal?

Hi Pastel! 

my answer is absolutely YES!  Being AMAB I had dysphoria issues from a very young age crossing over both spectrums.

 

Pre-puberty I was already secretly crossdressing in my mother's/grandmother's clothes because it felt so natural to me, but as a late "bloomer" to the male side I was also ashamed at how Non-masculine my body was.  I think this IDEAL of what society bound me to being AMAB was difficult for me (one reason I grew facial hair as soon as I could in my early 20s, to try to play the Role). 

I am pre-HRT and just starting therapy so this is one of the aspects I want to resolve with my therapist.  Am I more transfeminine? (as the way I think I am, or want to be) or am I Fluid?  Non-binary?  something else?

The final label is not so important to me, but I do want to make sure my hormones match how I truly feel. So, prior to HRT (which I pretty sure I want to do) I want to feel confident in my path forward. 
Body parts at this time are less important.  I do now greatly appreciate the more feminine aspects of my body type, slim muscle mass, wide hips and narrow shoulders.  And I would like to think I would welcome the feminizing aspect of HRT as well as just feeling better inside. 
Right now I am not considering bottom GRS, but I know that could change.

I hope my experience and perspective gives you some comfort that we are all unique and there is not any ONE specific answer to anybody's Questioning. 
I am sure you will also receive a lot of other great experience from Members here with similar stories.

Wishing you all the best❣️

[KayC]

Oh... and my apologies Margot for mis-naming you Pastel ❤️  (sometimes I forget to remember ?)

[pastelcryptid]

On 7/17/2020 at 8:29 PM, SaraAW said:

That is tricky, if it was tied to a specific general cross gender anatomy preference, I would say it probably is dysphoria, if it's more a I wish this was prettier or handsomer, maybe more of a dysmorphia thing. If you have a therapist, I would say that this is something you should definitely explore with them. Also, maybe experiment a little more, try packing, try stuffing try minimizing. See what feels right and if it really depends on which gender you're feeling more attached to at that moment in time, maybe you need to have several options available so you can tweak things as needed.

Thank you, I think this is very good advice. It's funny, I was just saying to another bi NB friend the other day that like, you finally come to terms with your sexuality and what terminology works best for you, feel proud of yourself. And then it's like Gender pops up to say "hey!!! Got some more confusion for you!" and it's a time warp to 10 years ago. I know figuring this out, and what works best for me is a process, but at the same time I'm happy because it did always feel like there was another secret half of myself I was denying, and this is what it was. And now I'm finally in a place where I'm happy to openly present how I feel.

 

On 7/18/2020 at 4:10 AM, KayC said:

Pre-puberty I was already secretly crossdressing in my mother's/grandmother's clothes because it felt so natural to me, but as a late "bloomer" to the male side I was also ashamed at how Non-masculine my body was.  I think this IDEAL of what society bound me to being AMAB was difficult for me (one reason I grew facial hair as soon as I could in my early 20s, to try to play the Role). 

[...]

I hope my experience and perspective gives you some comfort that we are all unique and there is not any ONE specific answer to anybody's Questioning. 
I am sure you will also receive a lot of other great experience from Members here with similar stories.

Wishing you all the best❣️

It's interesting, I think, how the two tie together. Because you are caught between the internal issue of your body not conforming to your gender, and then also the issue of your body not conforming to society's idea of your assigned gender. And it's stressful having to deal with coming up short on both sides, so I think quite a few trans/nb probably go through the process of "look I can only deal with disappointment from one camp at a time". And often you end up having to please others because its safest. 

I went into high school (starts age 11 in the UK) very much as a girl, but I was bullied very heavily. The bullies made me feel very unattractive, so I believed I couldn't present femininity successfully. And one of the ways I was bullied implied I had masculinity in a very negative context. It was very much "you are a thing, not a person", and I compounded that by just trying to be as invisible as possible. I presented as nothing at all for about six years, but perceived as female by default.

It was only when I did cosplay that I started to feel confident in my body. Suddenly, I wanted to stand out, I wanted to embrace the styles that I loved, and I began to believe I could be "successful" at femininity. I liked how I looked, I finally started to enjoy clothes shopping. But also, since I mostly cosplayed men, it got rid of that fear left over of being "caught out" as masculine, or being perceived as masculine in a way that was explicitly ugly. I got to present as a man and be praised for it. That was a huge game-changer. Steadily I began to acknowledge and embrace all the things about masculinity I'd loved but had been forced to hide. This might be a cliche, but I think the real kicker for me was when I decided to get my hair cut very short. Part of it was, I no longer felt like I needed the help of my long curly hair to "be pretty enough", and just wanted to try it. But from the moment I got it cut I was like "holy [bleep] I feel amazing". Because yes, I could still present as feminine with the short hair and it looked great, but it also enabled me to explore presenting as masculine without cosplay. And because my personal presentation of masculinity is one that incorporates some femininity, this really felt like I was living my true self.

 

On 7/18/2020 at 4:13 AM, KayC said:

Oh... and my apologies Margot for mis-naming you Pastel ❤️  (sometimes I forget to remember ?)

That's okay! I think it's really cute to be called Pastel, and it's gender-neutral ?