(Pardon the explicit topic) Glans vs Neo-Clitoris?

[Heather Nicole]

I know I'm getting WAY ahead of myself with this at this point, but I'm the ultra-ultra-cautious type: I have issues even starting down any road where I don't feel I already fully understand the destination.

 

For cis-males, the "glans" ("head") has a particular extra-sensitivity that is not always entirely pleasant. It tends to be more the shaft's erectile tissue and the foreskin that are the big genital erogenous zones, not so much the glans. But, AIUI, for typical penile inversion vagiplasty, all the exterior portion of the erectile tissue is removed, and the neo-clitoris is formed from a portion of the glans.

 

But since the clitoris tends to be the main female genital erogenous zone, rather than the canal, (or at least for cis-females anyway???), that makes me worry: Does that mean that the post-SRS sexual experience for M2Fs is limited to the awkward sensation of rubbing the male glans?  Or does HRT change things somehow?

[Jackie C.]

The HRT causes additional nerve connections to form in the glans, like in a cis-woman's clitoris, when stimulated. The flip side of that is that if you want to enjoy clitoral stimulation post-op, you should take as many opportunities as possible to use your penis while undergoing HRT and before your GCS. I can tell you from personal experience that rubbing my neo-clitoris feels pretty awesome and while it takes longer to get to the "finish line," it is well worth the extra time and effort. I was fortunate in that I never lost the ability to achieve erection on HRT (some girls do). If you do lose the ability to become erect, you might have to look into alternate forms of stimulation, but don't forget to stimulate the glans. PRO TIP: Having a partner present or helping you achieve orgasm on HRT or post GCS helps enormously. Enlist aid if possible.

 

Hugs!

[Heather Nicole]

First of all, thank you so much for your candid response on such an intimate question! I appreciate it so very much!

 

Ok, so then, I guess it's NOT the same awkward "both good and bad" sensation as direct glans stimulation on a non-HRT AMAB (like me), then? But, in comparison, it's more biased towards pleasure?

 

That's a bit of a relief to me. It's always been an absolute, presumed impossible, dream of mine to get to have "lady parts" down there (and nothing else). But gender always has a lot of tradeoffs and I've had a number of worries, and this was one of them.

 

19 hours ago, Jackie C. said:

The HRT causes additional nerve connections to form in the glans, like in a cis-woman's clitoris, when stimulated.

 

Wow, the human body really is amazing sometimes, isn't it? I would never have guessed something like this could happen, but I thought I'd ask anyway. I'm so glad I did!

 

19 hours ago, Jackie C. said:

The flip side of that is that if you want to enjoy clitoral stimulation post-op, you should take as many opportunities as possible to use your penis while undergoing HRT and before your GCS.

 

Really? This is total news to me too, I had no idea!

 

Luckily, it sounds like no issue for me: Sexuality is a very significant part of my self-identity, and I have very few hang-ups regarding it (unless...that's just my testosterone-producing "boys" talking? I don't know, I'm still looking for a gender therapist.)

 

19 hours ago, Jackie C. said:

while it takes longer to get to the "finish line," it is well worth the extra time and effort.

 

I've heard about this, but it actually sounds like a very good match for me. I find the more delayed, prolonged sessions are the only worthwhile ones anyway, and the "quick finish line" is so incredibly minor, that it's barely even "sexuality", but really little more than just the simplest way to get "the little boys down there" to shut up and stop hijacking my brain for "release" at very random, sometimes frequent, often inopportune times.

 

"I pity the fool who thinks quick release is all there is to sex"...

 

Not only that, but male climax (as pleasant as it is) usually just feels so much more "the end...very abruptly" than a reward. (I also confess, as long as we're being incredibly candid, that sometimes I absolutely crave vaginal penetration, even though I'm not attracted to guys and don't have a vagina...That's led to some...less-then-completely-satisfying things...and also...umm...bad mistakes...).

 

19 hours ago, Jackie C. said:

If you do lose the ability to become erect, you might have to look into alternate forms of stimulation, but don't forget to stimulate the glans.

 

To be honest, this is another thing that actually sounds in my favor to me...(unless, maybe, I ever have opportunity to be "with a woman" and for once not have "the protection" cancel out any and all sensation.) Ehh, sorry for the TMI...

 

But regardless, If you'll pardon my candor, one of my favorite sensations down "there" is my (annoyingly-loud) "magic wand" (formerly "Hitachi"). But the moment good things start with it down there...well...that's when male physiological reactions occur and ruin the fun. From that point on it's just "pick one tiny minuscule portion of your anatomy to continue, and neglect the rest. Now try to enjoy!"

 

20 hours ago, Jackie C. said:

PRO TIP: Having a partner present or helping you achieve orgasm on HRT or post GCS helps enormously. Enlist aid if possible.

 

Heehee...I'd say that kind of aid helps enormously with far more than just HRT/GCS Difficult as that part may be for ultra-shy big 'ol me...

 

But point well taken, nonetheless.

 

Again, thank you so much for your open honest-ness! I really do value it, and it really does helps me a great deal. And I understand how intimate the topic is, so I appreciate it all the more!

[Jackie C.]

My pleasure. My surgeon stopped with, "You will have six inches of depth and you will be orgasmic." There should have been a handbook included. So yeah, post GCS by... eight months now? Mental stimulation is the most important component. I need to be in the mood. The mood is much easier to achieve in the presence of an enthusiastic partner. Then stimulation. I usually get myself started during foreplay. Foreplay goes on for a while, but I understand that's pretty common in lesbian couples. Our sessions last for one or two hours where we work each other up and then bring each other over manually.

 

If I'm solo, it's because the mood struck me pretty hard and yeah, the magic wand (mine isn't so loud) is a good way to start. I usually end up finishing myself manually though. It takes about twice as long without a partner, but that's not so bad. I'm still working out all the peculiarities of the system. It's very different and I still get the occasional, "Oh, I like that too. Let's get more of that in my life." Post GCS the best advice is to try pretty much everything. The sensations are different and you never can tell what you're going to like. Things are a little more complicated, but that's not a bad thing.

 

Hugs!

[KathyLauren]

What I wouldn't give to experience some "loss of sensitivity"!  My recovery from "zero-depth vaginoplasty" (a.k.a. vulvoplasty) has been slow and painful.  (I am at six months post-op.)  Most of the pain has been focused on my neo-clitoris.  Trust me, it is plenty sensitive!

 

I have had to learn something about the anatomy of the neo-clitoris.  They remove two of the three erectile chambers from the penis.  The remaining one, with the glans / neo-clitoris at its tip, is folded in half over the pubic bone and stitched in place facing backwards.  It is still capable of arousal, though being folded and stitched in place, it doesn't become "erect".  The sensation is much as you'd expect.  It feels like having an erection in a tight gaff.

 

The inner labia are also formed from the glans.  The sensation is confusing, because the two labia and the clitoris all feel like they are still part of the glans.  I am slowly learning to tell them apart.

 

I can't tell you about sexual function, because my aparatus is still too painful to play with.  I have no worries about whether the sensation will be adequate!

[Dana Michelle]

For me the erogenous zone is the base of the penis. Maybe it's because that is about where a clitoris would be if I had one. My first orgasm after starting HRT was very strong. After a few months, they weren't strong any more. Maybe the combination of having more than a small amount of both estrogen and testosterone made orgasms stronger.

[Heather Nicole]

Oh, my! I really appreciate everyone's candid openness on such an intimate topic!

 

@Jackie C.: A handbook sounds like a wonderful idea! Even I've had many times, non-gender-related, I've wished medical workers had been more informational about things, before, during and after.

 

On 10/1/2020 at 4:00 AM, Jackie C. said:

"Oh, I like that too. Let's get more of that in my life." Post GCS the best advice is to try pretty much everything. The sensations are different and you never can tell what you're going to like

 

My, that sounds like sooo much fun! I'm happy for you! And maybe a little bit envious

 

@KathyLauren: I've looked into some of the procedures, and even watched videos (fascinated by them), but somehow it still never occurred to me to even think about the resulting effects and sensations of the long, folded tissue connecting the former glans to the rest of the body. That sounds like it must me a rather...interesting sensation. I am personally familiar with how physical restriction can inhibit erection (even in the presence of arousal), but I've never used a gaff (my closest experience would be the panties from LeoLines, which I imagine is probably not comparible), and I'm still trying to understand the whole "tucking" procedure, so I can't say I can relate to the description. I hope the sensation isn't discomforting to you. Or to others.

 

@Dana Michelle: I find the base far more sensitive, too! This isn't a topic that's ever really included in "guy talk", so I've had no idea how it compares to other AMAB's (Hetero guy-guy friendships, even best friends, are SOO distanced and wrought with constant fear of being overly-close). For me, I've always figured the higher sensitivity of my base was the result of too many instances of being too rough with the whole thing. (I've found the feminine thought of not even having those guy-parts down there and being capable of "receiving", or even the idea of numbness or the pins-n-needles "limb waking up" sensation (which doesn't exist down there, BTW), to be so fascinating that...Well, this is clearly something I should discuss with my gender therapist once I find one.

 

 

[Emily michelle]

I would love to be penetrated down there one day. The odd thing was even before I was willing to admit I’m transgender I didn’t enjoy sex with my penis and always had to put my mind on something else. I did just find out when I made my appointment for a consult about an orchiectomy that the surgeon does full depth procedures to so that is something I need to ask. 

[Heather Nicole]

2 hours ago, Emily michelle said:

I would love to be penetrated down there one day.

 

Yea, my fascination with, and desire for, that sensation is one of the key reasons I started wondering about being trans. Looking at...visual stimulation...always makes me imagine and envy the female side of what's being shown. The...other potential spot I have for penetration...just doesn't seem quite the same. (Not that I can directly compare.)

 

3 hours ago, Emily michelle said:

The odd thing was even before I was willing to admit I’m transgender I didn’t enjoy sex with my penis and always had to put my mind on something else.

 

Oh, I'm glad you mentioned that. I've been wondering about that with myself. But it's really hard for me to tell, because the few opportunities I've ever had for sex always involved condoms, and I think maybe they weren't quite the right size and weren't the thin kind because I literally couldn't feel anything at all that was going on "down in there" which made things not really work on my part.

 

Not only that, but worries about my bodyweight being too much made missionary at least feel more like doing push-ups than anything sexy. And most of the other positions I tried so far just seemed physically/anatomically awkward.

 

Ugh, and now with COVID out there, and still being single through it, it'll probably be awhile before I can find anyone and try again, and start piecing together for certain just what it was that wasn't working right for me. (Ugh, I hope that doesn't sound too one-sided, I don't mean it to be. For me, intimate moments are like Christmas - incredibly special even for just what they are, and...it's not the getting, it's the giving )

[Jackie C.]

1 hour ago, Heathick said:

Ugh, and now with COVID out there, and still being single through it, it'll probably be awhile before I can find anyone and try again, and start piecing together for certain just what it was that wasn't working right for me. (Ugh, I hope that doesn't sound too one-sided, I don't mean it to be. For me, intimate moments are like Christmas - incredibly special even for just what they are, and...it's not the getting, it's the giving )

 

That's important. The giving is the best part. However, giving AND receiving at the same time? Awesome.

 

I've had that talk more than once with my spouse. That said, I find that on the HRT I need to be touched more. I never used to be this tactile.

 

Still, I think for a lot of us (even pre-op) it's more the brain game than anything else. If I'm in the right frame of mind, everything is awesome. If I'm not... well, you'd better help me get there. Not that it's difficult, I mean that's what foreplay is for, right?

 

Hugs!

[Emily michelle]

After being on hrt for 5 months if I do want to be aroused I have to be touched for a while. Mostly my breasts. I don’t try to anything with my lower anatomy anymore because it causes too much dysphoria.

[Elizabeth Star]

2 hours ago, Emily michelle said:

After being on hrt for 5 months if I do want to be aroused I have to be touched for a while. Mostly my breasts. I don’t try to anything with my lower anatomy anymore because it causes too much dysphoria.

I'm in the same boat.

 

[HollyElizabeth]

6 hours ago, Emily michelle said:

I would love to be penetrated down there one day. The odd thing was even before I was willing to admit I’m transgender I didn’t enjoy sex with my penis and always had to put my mind on something else. I did just find out when I made my appointment for a consult about an orchiectomy that the surgeon does full depth procedures to so that is something I need to ask. 

I'm the same way, I don't enjoy sex like a guy should. It doesn't feel natural, and when I did have sex, I always lost sensation during vaginal penetration. So I was never able to cross the finish line. Now On HRT, I have no sensation down there at all. Right now sex means nothing to me because I can start the race but I'm not allowed to finish. . . I hope things change for me after because I really want to enjoy sex!

[Ivy]

On 9/30/2020 at 10:53 PM, Heathick said:

sometimes I absolutely crave vaginal penetration, even though I'm not attracted to guys and don't have a vagina...

Me too.  I don't expect to ever have the surgery though.  I don't have the funds, and I'm kinda old anyway.

14 hours ago, Heathick said:

@Dana Michelle: I find the base far more sensitive, too! This isn't a topic that's ever really included in "guy talk", so I've had no idea how it compares to other AMAB's (Hetero guy-guy friendships, even best friends, are SOO distanced and wrought with constant fear of being overly-close). For me, I've always figured the higher sensitivity of my base was the result of too many instances of being too rough with the whole thing. (I've found the feminine thought of not even having those guy-parts down there and being capable of "receiving", or even the idea of numbness or the pins-n-needles "limb waking up" sensation (which doesn't exist down there, BTW), to be so fascinating that...Well, this is clearly something I should discuss with my gender therapist once I find one.

My guy stuff doesn't really work anyway, but I find the whole area around the base to be quite sensitive.  I was never big and I can kinda poke it up inside and work on that area.  For me that works pretty well, and I have the illusion of being penetrated.  I don't have a partner.

Even before HRT I felt that my stuff was "inside out" so…

[Ivy]

Oh, and there is nipple stimulation too.

[Elizabeth Star]

I think I've developed an oral fixation of some sorts. When I get my coffee it has a little stopper stick in it. Usually I would just chew on it for a minute or two and throw it out but lately I'm finding I like to play with it in my mouth. For some reason I really like how it feels on my tongue and it does something for me emotionally. I'm so confused right now.

[DragonflyGirl]

5 hours ago, HollyNoel said:

I'm the same way, I don't enjoy sex like a guy should. It doesn't feel natural

 

That's me. Although my equipment always worked, it felt horrible to me to be doing things from 'the man's side'.

 

I can very much enjoy sex when things are the 'right way' around and I really hope I get to experience it with a vagina and clitoris one day. It'll be very different, but from a psychological point of view I think I'll feel a lot more free to enjoy things without my male bits weighing me down in the back of my mind.

[Ivy]

3 hours ago, ElizabethStar said:

For some reason I really like how it feels on my tongue and it does something for me emotionally. I'm so confused right now.

The mouthfeel 

[Heather Nicole]

13 hours ago, Jackie C. said:

That's important. The giving is the best part. However, giving AND receiving at the same time? Awesome.

 

Ha ha, actually, you are right about that

 

13 hours ago, Jackie C. said:

That said, I find that on the HRT I need to be touched more. I never used to be this tactile.

 

A change like that could almost be dangerous for me! Even without HRT I've always had a deep need for human touch, whether sexual or not. Makes being an always-single adult really tough. If I weren't so self-conscious and paranoid of cis women's reactions and assumptions I would be going out for massages all the time. (But guys always have to be so constantly on-guard to be sure not to be assumed a threat, or a perv, or assumed to be making an unwanted come on - it's so frustrating and limiting. It's no wonder I've always been so shy in person. Well, I guess maybe it's not so limiting for the actual guy-jerks out there, which I guess might explain some things...)

 

@HollyNoel: That sounds really rough! I hope the estrogen kick in down there for you soon!

[Ivy]

11 hours ago, Heathick said:

Even without HRT I've always had a deep need for human touch, whether sexual or not. Makes being an always-single adult really tough.

Me too.  Living alone gets depressing.  And the covid only makes it worse.

[JoniSteph]

12 hours ago, Heathick said:

Even without HRT I've always had a deep need for human touch, whether sexual or not. Makes being an always-single adult really tough.

After many, many years of living alone, it never gets any easier so keep yourself in contact with others at all costs. It will make transitioning as well as your mental health so much easier. I have had the sucidial episodes, depression (still do), social phobias and anxieties, low self-esteem, etc. It is a constant fight to overcome each of these daily to return to my optimistic self. 

Always remember to always love the person in the mirror and smile at them each morning.

 

Big Canadian Hug All

JoniSteph

[Heather Nicole]

Well, I may be single, but oh I wish I lived alone (with my cat). I'm helping out my mom a lot while she goes through chemo, and I'm around enough people at work, so for me loneliness is really only an issue in the physical and romantic sences. Problem is I'm living with my mom, and, well, long story short, as much as I love her and enjoy her company (in moderation), half the time it feels like being trapped in a bad marriage I never even signed on for in the first place. D**n career problems...

 

Ugh, sorry, but I really needed to vent today :/

[Ivy]

7 hours ago, Heathick said:

Ugh, sorry, but I really needed to vent today ?

Sometimes ya just gotta.

We do what we have to.  

And a lot of the time it's not easy.

[Kellianne]

Wow what an interesting topic. I am not having bottom surgery but I am interested in the tactile changes you mentioned to the glans. Are there other changes (other than increased erectile dysfunction most likely) to sensations in the penis? I am sorry to have so many questions but as soon as I finally admitted to myself this is me, I find a voracious appetite for knowledge on every thing. Just like @Heather Nicole mentioned, i want to fully understand the destination before starting down a road of such dramatic changes to my life.

 

Thank you,

Hugs and Love,

Kellianne

[Ivy]

2 hours ago, Kellianne said:

Just like @Heather Nicole mentioned, i want to fully understand the destination before starting down a road of such dramatic changes to my life.

I'm not sure this is possible.