Is being Tg make you gay?

[Audrey]

21 hours ago, Betty K said:

I mostly fantasised about gorgeous women, but what I realise now is I partly fantasised about becoming them.

I think this was the crux of my confusion for many years. My attraction to women was always obvious from when I was a teenager. Yet, when I was actually with a woman, I didn't want to be intimate in the "normal" way, it just felt wrong. Anything but penetrative sex. That was interpreted by my partners as being uninterested in them, which wasn't true but impossible to convince them that it wasn't rejection or lack of attraction. I wondered a bit about whether I was gay, but I never had any attraction or even curiosity about being intimate with a man. So what did it mean? I've written before about the "lust vs. envy" struggle in my head. In the end, I decided it was envy, but it still took me years to accept that I was transgender and decide to transition. Is it lust too? Perhaps so, because I prefer women as sexual partners, but the envy is where I am very different from a straight cisgender man.

 

I'm feel just how @KathyLauren does. I'm attracted to women and always will be. I'm in a relationship with a woman now, and if there were going to be a new relationship in the future, I know I would want to be with a woman. So, yes, transition will mean that I go from a straight man to a lesbian woman. But to the original poster's question about whether being transgender makes one same-sex oriented, I would say that everyone's preference for an intimate partner is unique to them and not intrinsically linked to gender identity or expression.

 

Love,

~Audrey.

[Lexi C]

Hey Ellie

Good luck with i think most guys ( nice guys) are looking for a nice girl. So if you really though about i would approach him when the time if right

 

Hey Betty

Yeah my sexual history is kinda screw up even before I was escorting. All I know is that men (dirty, unmoral, guilty) once don't give a Beee if their cheating with someone like my past self or if they where hurting me. To then its nothing personal but " I paid you B@@@, so i can do want i want.  

To tell you the truth I never every had what someone would call honest sex. Its always being physical or dehumanizing.

Huh I never thought about until now. Thank you for opening up my mind to it

God Bless 

Ladies Much lv 

Lexi

[Jackie C.]

1 hour ago, Lexi C said:

Yeah my sexual history is kinda screw up even before I was escorting. All I know is that men (dirty, unmoral, guilty) once don't give a Beee if their cheating with someone like my past self or if they where hurting me. To then its nothing personal but " I paid you B@@@, so i can do want i want.  

To tell you the truth I never every had what someone would call honest sex. Its always being physical or dehumanizing.

 

Oh sweetie... Now I just want to give you a giant hug.

 

GIANT HUGS!!!

[Lexi C]

thank Jackie i appricated that.

Much Lv

[Betty K]

@Lexi Csweetheart I’m with Jackie: I send you a great big cyberhug across the ocean. It sounds to me like before you’ll know what you need or want from sex you may need to do some healing. I have had the sort of sex you are talking about — though I’m sure not as much as you have — and it made me confused and unhappy for a number of years. It’s not that I think sex is only meaningful or “right” if you’re in a serious relationship. Even a one-night stand can be meaningful and even beautiful if you choose your partner wisely and approach it in the right spirit. But that dishonesty you mention is poisonous to good sex. 

 

For me, coming out as transgender (to the small extent that I have) has led to more honesty in my sexual experiences and that has been true bliss. I totally believe that can happen for you too, but maybe to get there you need to let go of expectations, make no demands on yourself, try to truly be whatever you are at your deepest level. Easier said than done I know, but if you can do it then who knows, one day you might be standing in the queue at the supermarket and a beautiful man or woman will say hi to you with a certain look in their eye and you will know, “This is someone I want to have sex with.” Who cares what sex or gender they are? If you are brave enough to transition or even just to be out in your everyday life then you will certainly be brave enough to have the sexual partner you want regardless of what society thinks.

 

I feel for you so deeply Lexi. You have lived a hard life. The only way is up from here x

[Chloe Cozee]

@Lexi C I had some abuse earlier in life, not sexual but it still hurt. Be kind to yourself, you deserve a meaning relationship. Take sometime to heal. More hugs to you!

[Betty K]

Also one last thing Lexi. Maybe this is obvious advice, but cry. Cry lots. Cry for everything you have been denied until now. It will open your heart x

[Betty K]

On 1/28/2021 at 8:20 AM, Jandi said:

While I don't feel an attraction to men, I think if a guy was actually interested in me as a person, I would be onboard.

Hi Jandi. Before I started "dating" (or let's not be coy, having hook-ups) with men I wouldn't have said I was attracted to them either, certainly not in anything like the way I'm attracted to women. But what I think I'm learning is a different way -- maybe a more feminine way? -- of being attracted. Women often say they don't care about looks (personally I think they're exaggerating in most cases, but I believe what they say to a degree), that it's mostly about sense of humour and personality and romance, that when they fantasise they don't fantasise in pictures but in stories: first he'll do this and then he'll do that, etc. And I have found all these things to suddenly be true of me too. It is a total revelation. I too started out saying (because I wasn't really attracted to them physically) that I didn't care how men looked. I care more now, but still not nearly as much as I care about a woman's appearance. What I care most about in a man is kindness, sense of humour, that he not misgender me, that he treat me "like a woman" (whatever that means -- I'm still finding out), that he's open and shares something with me emotionally, that he truly desires me, that he desires me as a person not just as an object (I didn't think that mattered at first -- I actually thought I liked being treated like an object, and I guess I do in a way, but only if there's something more as well), and I'm sure many other things I can't think of now. Oh yes, and romance! Gosh I do love romance. I had no idea! It is just so so lovely when a man goes the extra mile to make you feel special. It always baffled me why women liked receiving flowers so much. Now I totally understand. If it is done with genuine feeling, it is the most seductive homage. It makes you feel beautiful as a woman, and for me that is more seductive than anything.

 

Anyway the point is, I surprised myself with my attraction once I discovered it was just a different sort of attraction, a type I'd never even known existed for me before. And now I am learning, because of that attraction, to be attracted to other things: Is he handsome? Stylish? Does he have a nice body? etc. These things still aren't the most important things to me, but it's kind of nice to feel them.

 

Long story short: I don't think you should give up on the chance of romantic attachment, not at all.

 

x Betty

[Betty K]

4 hours ago, Audrey said:

Yet, when I was actually with a woman, I didn't want to be intimate in the "normal" way, it just felt wrong.

Hey Audrey. That is so interesting and so unlike me! I wanted so much to be intimate physically with women that it kind of sent me a bit crazy sometimes. I fell head over heels for my first wife, partly because I could barely process that this goddess-like being could actually desire me. Ironically, though the sex was great at first, the longer we knew each other the more flat and even boring it became, maybe partly because my attitude to her and to sex with her was always unhealthy because she so intimidated me. I also, ever since primary school, had ridiculously heavy crushes on girls where I convinced myself I loved them when really, I'm sure, I just desired them, a very brutal and desperate teenage kind of desire. And then after I lost my first wife I fell into deep despair believing I'd probably never love at that intensity again and I spent a few years having demeaning casual sex and frequenting prostitutes. Not all of those experiences were bad, and I did meet some women who expanded my mind and conception of sex in some ways, but as I said above ultimately that period was soul destroying. After that I had a relationship, not very serious but very sweet, with a younger woman, a relationship that broke my heart more than it should have because it ended very badly. And from there, after desperately throwing myself around the singles scene a bit with almost no luck at all (by then I was in my late 30s, and most of the women I met were early 20s), I took up crossdressing. But even when I'd go out to gay clubs en femme and guys would proposition me it was the women I lusted after, and often with a desperate lust not too different from when I was a teenager.

 

Anyway after that phase of crossdressing came to seem like a dead-end (even though it was a truly great experience, but it clearly wasn't leading to sex or a relationship, not at that stage anyway), I met my second wife. And it felt like something had shifted: I desired her, I desired her a lot, and we had the most consistently fulfilling sex of my life, but I desired her less for her looks and more for her heart and mind and soul. It felt more mature. It felt right. But evidently it wasn't, or it wasn't destined to last anyway, because here I am: a woman (of some description, even if I am also a man) who is way more attracted to men than to women. To an extent I think this is me saying, ok, if I can't make a relationship work with my wife then I don't believe I can make it work with any woman. It's partly that, but it's also something that was always under the surface, I suspect, even though I didn't or couldn't acknowledge it.

 

An amazing thing happened about six weeks ago: I was watching my favourite cis woman pornstar, someone I'd lusted after for a few years even while still having passionate sex with my wife. For those few years I'd felt a pressure mounting: Would I ever stop desiring other women? Couldn't I just enjoy my love and desire for my wife? My wife knew I felt this way and she seemed to forgive it completely; it didn't even really seem to worry her. But it worried me, because it seemed to be calling me somewhere, maybe back to that soul-destroying place I'd had to get through to meet my wife in the first place. But I was wrong, as I realised six weeks ago when I suddenly understood, watching my favourite pornstar, that I didn't want to have sex with her, I wanted to be her. As I've said, I'd felt this to a degree before: I'd looked up to women and wanted to emulate them, but only ever really the way they looked, the way they dressed, the way they walked and moved their hands maybe, but not anything else. Now, I wanted to go the whole way, to the point of having sex with men too. I wanted to do everything I'd seen my favourite pornstar do. This hit me like a revelation: how on earth had I resisted this message when it had been beaming itself to me for the past 3-4 years? It was right there all along, I just didn't want to see it. And I can already feel the next revelation unfolding: that I don't just want to make love like a woman, I want to live like a woman, though I honestly don't know yet if I can.

 

 

 

 

[Susan R]

@Betty K Up until a few years ago, I thought I have always been more attracted to women than men. Some of this has changed over time to the point that I believe now I am attracted equally but the type of attraction (as you describe) to a female and a male is not comparable at all. I have different reasons for both attractions it seems.

 

Your description of male attraction eloquently describes very closely my views on it for me which I have never been able to clearly describe this accurately. I’ve discussed this with my wife on several occasions and I would just describe it to her as different types of attraction. I do know that for myself the attraction to men has almost everything that you mention in how you describe your attraction to men. I find that I do have a “type” of guy that I am attracted to more than others.  Looks does play at least a small part in the attraction but their personality seems to be slightly more important than what I would describe as my attraction to woman...as shallow as that sounds...lol.

 

Great Post, Betty.

 

Susan R?

[Betty K]

@Susan R Thank you so much for saying that Susan. I have wanted to get in touch with you again ever since you commented on my first post, but I felt as if I had left it too long and missed my chance. I sense that you and I have a lot in common.

 

Yes, it's funny to realise how shallow we can be in our desire for women, isn't it? I feel for women more and more in this respect: I have felt myself being charmed and seduced by men who use words like "love" (I have experienced this twice now, out of only three male lovers) and "make love" only to find that really they are awed by my appearance and will do and say almost anything to go to bed with me. It makes me feel like a sucker, and the weirdest thing is I didn't even think I was looking for love either! But I am rapidly starting to realise that maybe I am. I am a hopeless romantic, I guess, both as a man and as a woman.

 

Susan, I hope it's not too personal a topic, but I am very curious about your relationship with your wife. i won't ask any specific questions because I don't want to pry or put you on the spot, but just so you know anything you have to say on the subject will be met with appreciation in this quarter. Or maybe if it's a topic you have discussed before you could point me to a relevant post? As you can probably tell I am torn in half at the moment by my love for my wife (or ex-wife, but I can hardly bring myself to call her that) on the one hand and my utter fascination with the events unfolding for me as my female self on the other. I even fear I am betraying her somehow, even though we've broken up, by following this road. I'm sure she'll accept me as whatever I become when next we meet -- she is very openminded -- but I fear it may also break her heart.

 

Thanks again Susan. It is a pleasure to know you x

 

 

[Kasumi63]

Hmmm. I feel somewhat awkward talking about this topic, but I’ve often wondered if there’s people like me until I saw a YouTube video by Dr Z. Basically, I’ve felt attracted to men when I’ve been dressed as a woman, and attracted to women when I was in male mode. However, when living as a male, a big part of that attraction was more of an identifying with the woman. In other words, wanting to be her or like her, as many of you have expressed. I want to stress that I don’t feel that I’m bisexual or homosexual either. However, my sexual attraction does seem to change with my gender presentation. Is this bizarre?  Now that I am living as a woman full time and transitioning, I’m only feeling attracted to men. Not sure what this is called, though. As I have been moving along with my transition, I’m almost always wanting to attract men, and feel attracted to them.

[Betty K]

Hi @Kasumi63 that doesn't sound bizarre to me, it sounds very familiar. I don't feel that I'm homosexual or bisexual either. Or maybe I am bisexual, but not in the way it is usually understood. When I am with a man, and presenting as a woman, I feel like a hetero woman. I'm aware that some people might ridicule me for saying this, so I try to remind myself that I am a man and that maybe I really am just gay, and really I don't care if I am, but it just doesn't seem accurate. The idea of making love to a man while presenting as a man actually horrifies me a bit. I am open to the idea I may grow out of that, but what I would prefer is if instead I just became more and more womanly until it wasn't an issue: I would not be a man anymore so I would never have to consider the question. But I am obviously less far along the transitioning path than you, and honestly I don't know if I will ever transition. The allure is strong though.

[Kasumi63]

1 hour ago, Betty K said:

Hi @Kasumi63 that doesn't sound bizarre to me, it sounds very familiar. I don't feel that I'm homosexual or bisexual either. Or maybe I am bisexual, but not in the way it is usually understood. When I am with a man, and presenting as a woman, I feel like a hetero woman. I'm aware that some people might ridicule me for saying this, so I try to remind myself that I am a man and that maybe I really am just gay, and really I don't care if I am, but it just doesn't seem accurate. The idea of making love to a man while presenting as a man actually horrifies me a bit. I am open to the idea I may grow out of that, but what I would prefer is if instead I just became more and more womanly until it wasn't an issue: I would not be a man anymore so I would never have to consider the question. 

Hi, Betty! Thanks for writing! That’s exactly how I’ve felt for many, many years now. You seem to have expressed my feelings better than I could. Like you, the idea of being with a man as a man always left be cold, and uninterested—even though I don’t consider myself homophobic at all, and even have some gay friends. As a woman, though, this is completely reversed, and the idea of being with a woman as a woman does nothing. This is not new for me; it’s always been this way, but now that I am always a woman and progressing in my transition, all attraction to women, apart from identifying with them is fading away completely. I’m starting to get to the point where I’m just a heterosexual woman, which would make this a non-issue. So why would we be like this? Any thoughts? (I’m afraid to say I don’t have a good answer myself. In fact, I have never even brought it up before.) Thank you again for replying. Helps a lot!

 

 

 

 

[Betty K]

Aw thanks Kasumi.

 

1 hour ago, Kasumi63 said:

So why would we be like this? Any thoughts?

 

Wow, the big question. This is probably the hardest question there is for me lately. It's such a mystery to me. I was passionately heterosexual as a man (and believe I could still be again one day, depending on what happens with my woman-journey) and now I'm passionately heterosexual as a woman. On the face of it that doesn't sound too hard to understand; it even sounds natural. But the problem for me arises when I consider that just by dressing a certain way I can seemingly switch between man and woman. How can that be? Can anyone really put on a gender and take it off again just like you'd change your outfit? Personally, in my case at least, I don't think so. I think it's more complicated than that.

 

What I'm starting to think is that, at this specific period in my life, I am actually far more woman than I realise, no matter how I present. So even when I'm dressed like a man and behaving like a man an increasingly large part of my inner self is female, or feels female (if there is a difference -- I don't know that yet). Why can't I make love to a man as my man-self, then? I think it's partly shame, or embarrassment, that my body as it actually is and as I present it most of the time just doesn't conform to my ideal image of it. So no, I don't want a man to see me naked. I don't want him to see how far I am from the ideal me I would like him to see. (I realise as I write this that I have never liked being seen naked by men, though I never knew exactly why. Maybe this feeling was always there? Also I have always had what both my wives called a kind of body dysmorphia, wherein I couldn't seem to appreciate my own physical beauty. So I lost out on both counts: with men I refused to reveal my body at all; with women I revealed it but felt ashamed of it.)

 

I guess maybe, for us, gender and sexuality are closely linked, though I understand it's not like this for everyone. And when you think about it it's really not unusual to want to present a certain way for a certain potential sexual partner. We all get dressed up to go out on dates; some of us even tell tall stories about ourselves to impress our dates. That's all a kind of roleplay, isn't it?

 

The weirdest thing for me, I think, is to realise that something that starts out as roleplay can actually become true. And then you understand why you played the role in the first place, because it was leading you somewhere. The role was another part of yourself, calling you.

 

Those are my thoughts today anyway

 

 

[Susan R]

4 hours ago, Betty K said:

Susan, I hope it's not too personal a topic, but I am very curious about your relationship with your wife. i won't ask any specific questions because I don't want to pry or put you on the spot

@Betty K, We’re nothing too out of the ordinary. We’re just two monogamous bisexual females married 22+ years now. After 20 years of marriage, I came out to my wife as transgender and began my transition to female.  We simultaneously both opened up about our sexual orientations to each other. We’ve both accepted one another completely. We now increasingly enjoy each other’s company as both best friends and romantic partners.

 

I wouldn’t want to bore the group here with much more than that but if you have any additional questions, feel free to PM me anytime. I’m an open book and will answer most reasonable questions very honestly.

 

Warmest Regards,

Susan R?

 

 

[Betty K]

Thank you so much @Susan R, I will do that, but maybe sometime when I am a little less emotional than I am today. x

[Susan R]

1 hour ago, Betty K said:

Thank you so much @Susan R, I will do that, but maybe sometime when I am a little less emotional than I am today. x

@Betty K My door is always open..I look forward to it.

[Kasumi63]

@Betty K Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I’m still trying to make sense of everything myself. Even though I’m much happier with where I am today, I don’t know if I’ll ever fully understand the why of how I arrived here. Thanks so much!

[Chloe Cozee]

Wow, a lot of discussion and introspection going on. Lately, I have wanted to reject labels. I am not criticizing anyone here. I am just stating my own thoughts lately. I have had fantasies over my whole life time. So I am a human attracted to humans. It's want is in their heart that counts. And what you want out of it. Do you need a fling or something long term or meaningful. Long ago, I had some re-occurring dreams that I was a woman making love with a man. When I am out and about, I don't find men attractive. In fact, if they are the toxic masculine caveman type, they turn me off immediately. I am married to a woman, so I am not out to try anything new. If I think about what type of person that I would want for a long term relationship, I mentioned this before, but I seek a deep heart to heart connection. I have never had that with a man, so it's hard for me to even imagine. Like I said, it's what is in their heart that counts, I have not felt that in a man in my 60 years. Sorry if my thoughts are all over the place! 

[Betty K]

1 hour ago, Chloe Cozee said:

 I have had fantasies over my whole life time. So I am a human attracted to humans.

Hi Chloe, thank you for stating this very important point. I too find myself feeling very frustrated by labels lately. I don't know if this will be a controversial thing to say, but I sometimes wonder if everyone is transgender to a degree, everyone is gay to a degree, and hetero, and etc etc. I mean, I believe there may be people at either end of these spectrums who really do fit into neat categories, but I suspect most of us don't. So although I see why labels can be useful I think it's also useful to let go of labels sometimes, and certainly not to live by them or feel confined by them.

 

I too have had so many fantasies in my life. It's why I find life so confusing, because I never know which fantasy might become reality.

[Betty K]

You're welcome @Kasumi63. Thank you for encouraging me to think about these things

[Ivy]

15 hours ago, Betty K said:

Long story short: I don't think you should give up on the chance of romantic attachment, not at all.

This is a hard thing.  I've always been romantic.  I love romance stories, and did as a man (although I tried not to be too obvious).  Jane Austen is one of my favorite writers.  I felt that way in my marriage, and was heartbroken when we split.

Thing is that now, I don't feel that I could be desirable to anyone.  I'm pretty old, and as far as looks, I would say, hag-like. And being a transgirl doesn't help.

Yeah, I realize that this is a bad way to think, but it is reality.  And I don't see any way for the situation to change.

It's depressing, but I just don't know how else to see it.

[Jackie C.]

2 hours ago, Jandi said:

Thing is that now, I don't feel that I could be desirable to anyone.  I'm pretty old, and as far as looks, I would say, hag-like. And being a transgirl doesn't help.

 

Ah yes, the affirmation. It goes like this: "I may not be my own type, but I am someone else's type."

 

You also need to remind yourself that while physical attraction gets your foot in the door, I find that people become more attractive as I find bits of their personality that I like. That's been true my entire life. It also TANKED my dating life early on because the objects of my affection always had me firmly in the FRIEND box by the time I knew them well enough to find them attractive.

Seriously, all women are beautiful. You just need to know how to look.

 

It might apply to men too I GUESS, but I really don't swing that way. ?

 

Maybe an exception if he was really good at giving me a post-workout massage. Maybe.

 

Hugs!

[Betty K]

12 hours ago, Jandi said:

And being a transgirl doesn't help.

Jandi, I hope you don't mind but I am going to PM you about this because I am conscious of hijacking Lexi's thread. But I do just want to say to anyone reading this, I think trans women may be having a cultural moment. I think there are many, many men who desire us. I think maybe society has repressed this collective desire for so long it is bursting out with a vengeance. But I'll leave the rest for the PM.