Pronoun Conundrum

[Drayse]

Currently the pronouns I use vary on the environment I find myself. At home, here and a couple other places I use she/her/hers, on some other social media I use they/their/them, and at work and yet other social media I use he/him/his. I'm transitioning on what I feel is a male to female trajectory yet I don't feel dysphoric over the pronouns used. At least not yet.

 

Part of my issue is how do you know what's appropriate? Is it mainly based on how one feels about the pronouns being used? What if you can't really decide? Does changing your mind later make others perceive you as less serious and perhaps mocking others?

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Susan R
Merged Posts As Per OP

[Elizabeth Star]

I wouldn't think any less of someone who is trying to figure themselves out. I know someone who is non-binary that uses female pronouns and male nouns.

[Audrey]

Hi Drayse, I feel that that finding the right pronouns is as personal a journey as finding the right name. It's natural and understandable to be unsure, and I certainly wouldn't judge anyone or think they were any less "serious" if they were unsure or didn't feel any dysphoria about this. The most important thing is that you're exploring your gender identity and expression, and in doing that, you're getting better and better connected to your authentic self. And that sounds pretty wonderful to me!

 

Love,

~Audrey.

[Drayse]

2 hours ago, Drayse said:

Edited 26 minutes ago by Susan R
Merged Posts As Per OP

Thanks @Susan R

[VickySGV]

They are known as PERSONAL PRONOUNS for a good reason.  It is your identity they refer to and we are finding that some of us are fluid as to gender and will be for periods of time.  Why be locked into ONE or another if you are comfortable and in safe places.  You have a gift in not being locked into one at the minute.  I have moved into an area where only the male gender is NOT an option since it was so painful and inappropriate for me, but even there I do not go ballistic or do more than shrug and sniff unless it is deliberate H8 against me or other Trans people when the occasional person gets me wrong. I am still ME and their opinion of my identity is none of my business at all.

[Drayse]

2 hours ago, ElizabethStar said:

I wouldn't think any less of someone who is trying to figure themselves out.

That's sweet, Liz. Thanks.

 

2 hours ago, ElizabethStar said:

I know someone who is non-binary that uses female pronouns and male nouns.

I've seen some people do that, and that's why I wondered if it was okay that I was doing something similar. I don't identify as non-binary, but I kind of get a feel of where non-binary folks are coming from.

[Drayse]

2 hours ago, Audrey said:

The most important thing is that you're exploring your gender identity and expression, and in doing that, you're getting better and better connected to your authentic self. And that sounds pretty wonderful to me!

Thanks @Audrey, I'll definitely try to keep that in mind. I suspect that I'll get the required surgeries for an MtF transition, but where my gender will actually end up is something I'm not entirely certain of. But I don't feel consistently "manish" or "womanish" all the time, or either sometimes, though more often on the feminine side than masculine.

[Drayse]

1 hour ago, VickySGV said:

It is your identity they refer to and we are finding that some of us are fluid as to gender and will be for periods of time.

Right @VickySGV, I see what you're saying. I might actually a little bit fluid and that might just be because I'm on HRT. But I've spent a lifetime being denied and then denying myself the chance to become a woman, and yet certain behaviours would occasionally surface on their own. Long before I was on HRT.

 

So probably not actually gender fluid though I can feel my gender identity shift around on me fairly often.

1 hour ago, VickySGV said:

I am still ME and their opinion of my identity is none of my business at all.

Very good point. Thank you.

[VickySGV]

2 hours ago, Drayse said:

So probably not actually gender fluid though I can feel my gender identity shift around on me fairly often.

 

I did not mean to try and label you there.  My use of the word fluid was the wrong word in light of the fact that "Gender Fluid" is a category of Trans. 

[Drayse]

5 hours ago, VickySGV said:

I did not mean to try and label you there.

I didn't assume that you intended so. I was just working through my own muddled thoughts. ?

[Elizabeth Star]

Anyone have any thoughts on a noun for a non-binary person? To just say 'person' feels impersonal. I know some are OK with being called person, NB or enby but is there something better, more appropriate?

 

I was in a situation at a store where the associate help you decide you order before getting called to a window to pick it up. At the window I was asked if I had been helped buy all I could say was yea, the person with the green hair helped me. It felt awkward and not quite right. I guess I could have said the enby with green hair, still doesn't feel right though.

[Drayse]

1 hour ago, ElizabethStar said:

I know some are OK with being called person, NB or enby but is there something better, more appropriate?

You could refer directly to them by name if you know it. Most employees in the service industry are required to wear name tags. Person is probably better than NB or enby if you're not sure as calling someone NB or enby might be seen as infantilizing?

 

You could also use "associate", "employee", "staff member", or "personnel" as some possible alternatives.

 

Or you could just ask them what they want to be called.

[KathyLauren]

A friend of mine is bi-gender.  (Privately, she will admit that she is probably MTF, but her family circumstances require her to be male at least at home.)  She changes her pronouns to match her presentation.  So, when presenting as female, she uses she/her pronouns, and is addressed as "ma'am" at work.  When presenting as male, he uses he/him pronouns and is addressed as "sir" at work. 

 

It is what works for her, and most people can figure it out, especially when she tells them what she wishes.

 

Your pronouns are whatever you want them to be, and you are allowed to change your mind over time.

[Drayse]

1 hour ago, KathyLauren said:

Your pronouns are whatever you want them to be, and you are allowed to change your mind over time.

You're right. It's hard not to get caught up in the idea that gender, and pronouns related to my gender, aren't allowed to change even when I know better.

 

Thanks @KathyLauren

[Kathy2020]

I think @KathyLauren made a good point, at least one I can relate to as well. While in the process of transitioning, I think its practical and polite to use pronouns to match yours or someone else's presentation, and if gender clues are confusing, its totally OK to ask what is preferred. I also don't mind friends and family getting my pronouns mixed up if its an honest mistake; its not easy to unlearn something after so many years. Sure it might be a little uncomfortable for a minute or two, but they are likely kicking themselves in the butt too when they realize the mistake. Now if someone is misusing my pronouns on purpose, that's a different story...

 

I feel, though, that as we settle into whatever part of the transgender spectrum we land, that pronouns naturally come easier to ourselves and others and eventually its just a rare occurrence where we misidentify someone (everyone has done it unintentionally, and kids are notorious for it). While we are letting time acclimate us to where we need to be, I don't see anything wrong with switching back and forth, especially early on. I think, in fact, that its a necessary part of the process because its a personal choice we are trying to make. This also may be why you are not having a dysphoric reaction to your pronouns yet either; you are still deciding what really works for you. When you find yourself sliding more and more into a single option though, my bet is your dysphoria will kick up a notch because it will be more personal.

 

Keep enjoying your journey!

[Drayse]

 

Thanks for your thoughts on the matter @Kathy2020
 

2 hours ago, Kathy2020 said:

When you find yourself sliding more and more into a single option though, my bet is your dysphoria will kick up a notch because it will be more personal.

This is probably true. I'm not fully out yet, but my coming out has proceeded faster than I had anticipated originally. It's almost as if I'm tired of hiding myself after having made myself do so for so long. That I've been hiding this aspect of myself goes against my very nature which is to say that I am normally fairly open, if not always voluntarily forthcoming, person. But keeping something like this secret was slowing killing me inside. By 24 February 2021 I intend to be fully out at work. I've been proactive and arranged to have HR on-site when I reveal what many of my coworkers probably suspect and a limited few already know. Then I'll expect my coworkers to use she/her/hers and they/they/them/theirs around me. We'll see how bad my dysphoria might get. ?

 

Which reminds me, I have a small presentation in supposed to be working on this weekend.

 

[Kathy2020]

1 hour ago, Drayse said:

By 24 February 2021 I intend to be fully out at work.

Oh, I can't imagine the stress you are feeling right now but also the urge to just do it! Please let us know how it goes and what happens!!!

 

1 hour ago, Drayse said:

Then I'll expect my coworkers to use she/her/hers and they/they/them/theirs around me.

I've thought a lot about having to do this myself, probably sooner than I want, and I've come to the conclusion that I'm not going to set the bar too high right off for proper pronoun use. While I might "be there" ready for it to happen, I know its going to take my coworkers a little bit of time to consciously adjust, and then they have to unconsciously adapt after that. I envision myself having to go ultra-fem with more-than-obvious gender ques for a while to help them out, and practicing my side glance a lot when they slip.

 

1 hour ago, Drayse said:

We'll see how bad my dysphoria might get.

You know its getting bad by how many times you say, "Really?" to the person who mislabels you. When you get to, "Really? Really! Really." then you can likely tag it a dysphoric response!

 

{{{Hugs}}}

 

[Elizabeth Star]

1 hour ago, Kathy2020 said:

I've thought a lot about having to do this myself, probably sooner than I want, and I've come to the conclusion that I'm not going to set the bar too high right off for proper pronoun use. While I might "be there" ready for it to happen, I know its going to take my coworkers a little bit of time to consciously adjust, and then they have to unconsciously adapt after that. I envision myself having to go ultra-fem with more-than-obvious gender ques for a while to help them out, and practicing my side glance a lot when they slip.

I set the bar high, but had low expectations. Didn't want to give the impression that it could be taken casually. It gave me some wiggle room so I could play nice and gently correct people when necessary.

 

 

[Kathy2020]

1 hour ago, ElizabethStar said:

I set the bar high, but had low expectations. Didn't want to give the impression that it could be taken casually. It gave me some wiggle room so I could play nice and gently correct people when necessary.

 

@ElizabethStar You know, that's a totally better way of interpreting what I was trying to say, thank you!