Bad news but good to know.

[Kasumi63]

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/state-anti-transgender-bills-represent-coordinated-attack-advocates-say-n1258124?fbclid=IwAR0-TVLRk2KM6Iu9Q38dNlMOs0fqDNu8iUXdcllRLrAR11doR3KzDkyW6xg

[KimmieElise]

Regarding Trans Athletes:

 

What I don't understand here, and maybe someone here can address this is that cis girls are being shut out of winning certain athletic events by trans athletes.  All it takes is one trans girl in one high school to shut out several girls teams from neighboring schools who compete at the same level (usually based on the size of the school).  What I am not seeing among the trans community is no compassion for these girls.  What I am talking about here does not exist merely on a theoretical basis, but has happened.  In addition, many of the trans athletes have set new records, and on occasion in excess of what any cis girl will likely break anytime in the near future, once these trans athletes move on from high school or college.  Some of these cis girls are angry, resentful, and discouraged for even competing in athletics in school.  Discouraging cis  girls from competing in athletics seems counter productive to having girls leagues or conferences, and the development of well-rounded young cis women.  The bottom line here is no matter how much these cis girls train, no matter how hard they work, they can't touch the trans girls athletic ability.

 

The bottom line?  Someone's feelings are going to get hurt.  If we exclude trans girls, their feelings get hurt.  If we allow trans girls, we hurt cis girls.  It seems to me this situation is one in which someone gets the short end of the stick.  Thus far, the trans community and it seems to some extent the news media has taken the approach of totally ignoring the harm done to cis girls.

 

So, how does this get resolved?  Do we take the approach of "To hell with cis girls!?"  Do we take the approach, "Well, cis girls should be taught not to feel bad (Yeah, cuz that's going to work)?" (I think telling cis girls to just deal with it, or not to be upset is holding them to a higher standard of maturity than trans girls, and vice a versa.)  Do we separate cis and trans girls?  Is there another option I have not yet considered?  How do we solve this problem?  Every solution I have heard thus far disregards one side or the other.

[VickySGV]

@KimmieElise  Your first paragraph there is not true about what happens.  We have sports experts who look at numbers, and it does not happen that way.  Only about 3 known times have Trans people beat out Cis women, and then it was only a single time against the other women who came back and whooped the Trans athletes into 4th and 5th places.  If a Trans youth is on blockers, the hormones that would give any advantage have been shut off and the tween or teen is going to be behind either gender and have no advantage for gender or sexual reasons.  Until puberty starts, boys and girls have no sex hormone advantages at all.  Even the bone density will be put on hold by Blockers. The Trans youth on Blockers are still at their pre puberty performance levels.  Also it is not the Teen competitors who are screaming so loud, it is parents of the Cis girls who have a plethora of anxieties.  Some are afraid their kid will miss a great chance at professional sports or college scholarships for athletics.  That is not pretty to see when parents cut loose on a child who did less than stellar scoring in some athletic encounter where there was nary a Trans person in a states borders near the loss. Trans children only rarely have more than a single blue ribbon in their sports careers.  They are in sports to be with peers and to gain friendship and learn team work, not to win per se.  There is on Trans child, a Female to Male who was taking T and was required to compete against females in wrestling, and sure enough he won against the girls, but he wanted to compete with males where he would have been average, he was actually ashamed of his wins in those circumstances. 

For sports above the High School or college, MTF people are going to be taking T blockers, so T will not help them much after the first few months, and then E will cause even more loss of muscle strength. 

[KimmieElise]

1 hour ago, VickySGV said:

@KimmieElise  Your first paragraph there is not true about what happens.  We have sports experts who look at numbers, and it does not happen that way...

Please, provide me with your sources, and I will do likewise.  I would also like to add that parent's concerns are not necessarily invalid. In some cases, the concerns of parents may be a convenient means to protest their child's poor performance, but this generalization is not necessarily universally true.  I will provide you with my sources as well.  No offense here, but a great deal of garbage is sold these days based on "anonymous sources close to..." and "experts" with no presentation as to what qualifies people as experts nor any verifiable documentation of their work.

 

1 hour ago, VickySGV said:

If a Trans youth is on blockers, the hormones that would give any advantage have been shut off and the tween or teen is going to be behind either gender and have no advantage for gender or sexual reasons.  Until puberty starts, boys and girls have no sex hormone advantages at all.  Even the bone density will be put on hold by Blockers. The Trans youth on Blockers are still at their pre puberty performance levels. 

 

This is a sound argument, until you consider the trans community is largely against strict medical transition, and therefore there is no requirement of which I am aware to be on any medical treatment for being trans.  It is simply enough, according to current thinking, to declare one's self transgender.  This stems from the communities  fear of "gate keeping."  Being a trans athlete does not guarantee the individual is on blockers.  This argument on your part opens a whole new can of worms. 

 

 

Either way, the problem still exists within your arguments.  There have been cases where girls have been upset at losing to trans girls, and then we are presented the moral and/or ethical challenge of how many people's feelings are we allowed to hurt one way or the other?  Keep in mind Madison's story is not unique, and presented here to demonstrate some cis girls are upset about having to compete against trans girls.  I will need an objective argument here to satisfy my question.

 

Please, keep in mind I have a side to me that likes to challenge the status quo.  I am kind of a devil's advocate in some ways.  I like to catalyze thinking, debate, and discussion.  Personally, I think this whole issue is way too simplified, ignoring many variables and nuances.

 

[Jackie C.]

Well, here's a good one:

 

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2020/11/06/bjsports-2020-102329

 

I actually agree with you on hormones and various sports have their own rules for transgender athletes. For example, I can't compete in Weightlifting or Body-Building events because of the hormones I take and I'm fine with that. So basically my thoughts are; If you are taking the appropriate hormones/blockers and have been for the appropriate amount of time then by all means compete as your preferred gender. At worst you'll have the same advantages that other high-performing women (narrower hips, broader shoulders) do. I'm completely fine with that.

At the lower levels though (say, through middle-school), it's just for fun. Let them compete. Kids gotta be kids, you know?

 

Hugs!

[KimmieElise]

1 hour ago, Jackie C. said:

Well, here's a good one:

 

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2020/11/06/bjsports-2020-102329

 

I actually agree with you on hormones and various sports have their own rules for transgender athletes. For example, I can't compete in Weightlifting or Body-Building events because of the hormones I take and I'm fine with that. So basically my thoughts are; If you are taking the appropriate hormones/blockers and have been for the appropriate amount of time then by all means compete as your preferred gender. At worst you'll have the same advantages that other high-performing women (narrower hips, broader shoulders) do. I'm completely fine with that.

At the lower levels though (say, through middle-school), it's just for fun. Let them compete. Kids gotta be kids, you know?

 

Hugs!

 

Thanks for contributing, @Jackie C..  I totally agree that hormones do make a difference.  I know my own muscle mass is greatly reduced by hormones, and I love it.  What I question is what @VickySGV 's argument that there is no significant evidence of cis girls being beaten out by trans girls.  What needs to be explained here is if ANY level of unfair competition is acceptable, and whether or not anyone's feelings can be sacrificed.  If we say yes, there is the question whether the feelings of one group outweigh the feelings of another.  @VickySGV suggests the offended girls are such a minority the impact is negligible.  If this is a legitimate argument, then the same argument could be made in reverse, and we could say trans girls represent such a minority their offense is inconsequential.  If we say "no one's emotional well being or happiness should be sacrificed," then we have challenges to find some compromise that must be made to satisfy all.  I don't want to see trans girls unable to compete in athletics.  At the same time, I don't want to see any cis girl mowed over by a testosterone fueled trans girl, who is not on hormones.

 

The same level of complication regarding discrimination and the negative experiences associated with it are involved if we allow trans girls who have been through certain amounts of HRT to compete, while girls who have not had HRT not to.  Not to mention, the 'allow HRT' approach, leads to the question of whether then we support medical transition, or are we 'gatekeeping'?  Do we require trans girls on hormones to periodically take a Free-T test to make sure they are still taking their blockers?  If we require trans girls to do this, do we also require cis girls, so there is not discrimination?

 

Here is my point: I think both sides have their preferred bias.  Both sides are willing to throw someone under the bus to get their way.  Both sides want simple answers which aren't going to leave someone out in the cold.  This, like most trans issues, is complicated.  We need to look at the nuances rather than painting with such big brushes as Federal, and maybe even state government.  Like with most issues, I think proactive problem solving at the local levels, and with solutions which are satisfactory to both sides might be a better solution.  Being Libertarian, I hate getting government involved in anything.  Government tends to be a hammer and every problem is a nail.

[Jackie C.]

1 hour ago, KimmieElise said:

Do we require trans girls on hormones to periodically take a Free-T test to make sure they are still taking their blockers?  If we require trans girls to do this, do we also require cis girls, so there is not discrimination?

 

That's actually already a thing at the professional level. I'm less sure about the college level and certainly not the high-school level. Thou shalt not dope. There are still cheaters, but stopping cheaters is up to the officials of the particular sport.

 

So yeah, while trans girls and trans boys are in the minority (we're something like .5% of the population), so long as the competition isn't serious it shouldn't matter who is competing. It's a game. Go have fun.

If there is something on the line, be it scholarships, prizes, sponsorships, etc... then yeah, regulation. Again though, you have to take it case by case. A blanket rule simply won't do. Trans-women have an advantage (if they translated later in life) in a narrow band of sports activities (again, so long as they're doing HRT, etc...). A good analogy is that we become a very large car with a very small engine. I'm personally in the best shape of my life right now (which is sad, but hey) but I see men working out next to me and I can see how much they can do vs. how much I can do vs. how much effort we both put in.

For contrast, one of my gym friends is 5'3" less than 120 pounds and cis-female. There is no doubt in my mind that she could break me in half if she chose to. She's got narrower hips and broader shoulders than average (and used to compete as a body-builder).

So with that in mind, how do you discriminate against a trans-woman vs. a more masculine woman? They've got the same body type. They're running on the same hormones.

For that matter, what about another friend of mine. She's intersex so her body produces about equal levels of T and E. Where does that put her? For the record, she's 5'4" and could also break me in half, but she's been practicing martial arts for 20 years.

 

Now then, while I support medical transition for people who need it, I don't think trans women who don't use HRT or other procedures are any less valid. However, in the interest of fairness I'd probably have to advocate for a rule in professional (and probably college) sports that you would have to have been on HRT for at least 9 months (or two years depending on which study you believe) to compete. Same with trans men because I'd rather not see any of them get destroyed on the field.

It's just a case of, "in this situation, you need to do X if you want to do Y." Society has a lot of little rules like that and I don't find them discriminatory if they're applied fairly.

Then again, what's "fair" on the athletic field? There's an element of hard work, sure but there's also genetic factors.

 

So yeah, the solution has to be nuanced. It's going to be gatekeeping to a degree and it's probably going to be abused by transphobic butt-heads. I guess the only REAL solution is to do away with professional sports entirely. (I'm probably joking, but if pro sports went away tomorrow I wouldn't notice until somebody told me.)

 

Hugs!

[KimmieElise]

1 hour ago, Jackie C. said:

So yeah, the solution has to be nuanced. It's going to be gatekeeping to a degree and it's probably going to be abused by transphobic butt-heads. I guess the only REAL solution is to do away with professional sports entirely. (I'm probably joking, but if pro sports went away tomorrow I wouldn't notice until somebody told me.)

 

I totally agree.  I could care less about professional sports.

[Ivy]

5 hours ago, KimmieElise said:

5 hours ago, Jackie C. said:

So yeah, the solution has to be nuanced. It's going to be gatekeeping to a degree and it's probably going to be abused by transphobic butt-heads. I guess the only REAL solution is to do away with professional sports entirely. (I'm probably joking, but if pro sports went away tomorrow I wouldn't notice until somebody told me.)

 

I totally agree.  I could care less about professional sports.

Yeah, it's complicated.

While my opinions are my own, I personally feel that one has to realize there are some sacrifices one has to make when transitioning.  A big one of course is the prejudice.  But my point is we have to take a hard and realistic look at what is involved for us personally, and whether it is worth it to us.  It appears that sports might be one thing that could be a problem.

It's being presented as the same "big cis man claiming to be a woman to prey on helpless little girls" argument that fuels the "bathroom bills."  It's good for firing up a political base to discriminate against trans people in general.

[miz miranda]

Like most social issues it is very complicated. This is not an issue at the professional level including Olympic sports. I'm an active triathlete and I have checked the rules of the sport regarding transgender participation. At the professional and age group levels, there are extensive rules for competing when transgender. For triathlon, it involves medical transitions and three year period after said transition to begin . competing.  Most sports have similar rules for competition and additionally they test for testosterone levels and ban both male and female competitors for levels that are too high. There is currently a case of a South African women believed to be intersex and winner of 2 Olympic gold medals, Caster Semenya who is currently blocked from competition. Refer to the link below if you are interested.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/caster-semenya-on-being-unable-to-compete-without-altering-hormones-i-will-continue-to-fight/ar-BB18SnPr

 

In the US, the issues is related to Article IX which mandate funding levels for female university sport in the US. Before puberty, there isn't a discernible difference in performance between children and this should be an issue. What will be an issue will be parents 'outing' children based on the adult's personal bias. When my wife was coaching 6-7 year girls soccer, an opposing coach accused her of playing a boy because one of the girls liked her very short. It was ridiculous on an may levels.

 

The issue comes at the collegiate level and the high school level where there could be competitive issues for trans-feminine  athletes that started transition after puberty. Trans masculine athletes are probably are disadvantaged in competition by the effects of hormones on muscle growth etc. Realistically, how many cis-gendered individuals would be willing to present as another sex just to win a race. Anti-doping testing will identify any such cases at the expense of privacy. The biggest danger would be the bigotry applied to such athletes especially if they are talented.

 

It is just another example of extreme viewpoints being the loudest and demonizing the issue.

 

I'm still in the process of coming terms with my own identity. If I chose to transition, I would strongly to continue pursuing my sport. I'm not in the gifted program when it comes to racing and I could live with not being eligible to win a race. However, I would not want to have to label myself anything than a women triathlete.

 

Sorry for being long winded, but this is something important to me. I wish people would learn to think rather than shout.

[miz miranda]

Sorry slight typo

 

I meant 'people who oppose this'  rather than people

[Ivy]

1 hour ago, miz miranda said:

I'm an active triathlete and I have checked the rules of the sport regarding transgender participation

Thanx for your insider's perspective on this issue.  

[MelanieTamara]

I think the athletics commissions will change the rules.

 

From Cambridge Dictionary:

 

Sport: a game, competition, or activity needing physica effort and skill that is played or done according to rules, for enjoyment and/or as a job.

 

Thus, for the game of girls sports as we currently know it, they'll change the rules to something like

 

1.  Participants may be only those humans with genetic chromosome markers XX

2. Run between lines,

3. etc.

 

And for what we currently know as boys sports...

 

1. Participants may be only those humans with genetic chromosome markers XY

2. Run between lines.

3. etc...

 

And of course there will be some pushback by our community on grounds of exclusion but they'll have an answer for that too and say that they offer a sport that allows participation.  ie....

 

1. Participants must be those humans with genetic chromosome markers XX or XY

2. Run between lines.

3. etc.

 

And here is the rub. They'll never say "because of transgender issues." Rather, they'll say (wink, wink), that they made the rule changes because of robtics, mechanical, or AI enhancements that are becoming more and more part of human anatomy.

 

#InsaneFirstPostForNewbie.

 

 

[Jackie C.]

OK, so where does that leave people like my friend Pam, who is an XY woman or XX men?

 

Also, hey @MelanieTamara! Welcome to Transpulse! We're glad you're here.

 

Hugs!

 

#NewbiesPostWhatTheyWant #WeWon'tJudge

[MelanieTamara]

1 hour ago, Jackie C. said:

OK, so where does that leave people like my friend Pam, who is an XY woman or XX men?

 

Also, hey @MelanieTamara! Welcome to Transpulse! We're glad you're here.

 

Hugs!

 

#NewbiesPostWhatTheyWant #WeWon'tJudge

Honestly, i have no idea. But I bet if we follow the money, I'm sure we'll find ourselves on the outside looking in. Percentages.

[Jackie C.]

Ugh. The money ALWAYS leads to some nasty white guy. I don't need more nasty white guys in my life.

 

Hugs!

[Ivy]

4 hours ago, Jackie C. said:

where does that leave people like my friend Pam, who is an XY woman or XX men?

Intersex people?

This is messy. 

[KimmieElise]

8 hours ago, Jandi said:

It's being presented as the same "big cis man claiming to be a woman to prey on helpless little girls" argument that fuels the "bathroom bills."  It's good for firing up a political base to discriminate against trans people in general.

 

I think this something which needs to be touched on.  I don't think this is always the motivation for opposing trans issues, and I think to some minor degree it is a valid  concern.  I am not sure those who oppose trans athletes competing against girls are doing so to be anti-trans, but rather pro-cis girl.  I find ignorance to be more of a problem than ill intent.  I also find many people have adopted certain assumptions to cope with the complexities of being trans in situations where they lack information.  For example, a lot of cis people assume all MtF are gay men looking for a way to make themselves more sexually palatable to straight cis men.  In this case, I think there is a question in their minds as to why a person would do something as drastic as transition, and they construct an explanation.  The thought that some gay guy or worse, some pervert might invade a bathroom for sexual kicks is a part of this.  I don't think bathroom bills are necessarily about being anti-trans, but are about being protective of cis women (even though those views are often based in ignorance).

 

As to the notion of someone using "trans" status inappropriately, we already have at least one example of this existing in the form of one individual in Canada who deliberately put small businesses in a bad situation as a pretense for suing them, has a history of litigious  activity targeting cis people, has shown an extraordinary interest in young women, menstruation, and as of late has called emergency services at least once a day to pull her naked body out of a bath tub.

5 hours ago, miz miranda said:

Realistically, how many cis-gendered individuals would be willing to present as another sex just to win a race.

 

While that may seem logical to us, I have learned not to discount such possibilities out of hand.  I can't rule out the possibility someone might "transition" simply to dominate a sport.  I think such an individual would be extremely rare, but it certainly is possible.  

[Guest]

10 hours ago, miz miranda said:

Like most social issues it is very complicated. This is not an issue at the professional level including Olympic sports. I'm an active triathlete and I have checked the rules of the sport regarding transgender participation. At the professional and age group levels, there are extensive rules for competing when transgender. For triathlon, it involves medical transitions and three year period after said transition to begin . competing.  Most sports have similar rules for competition and additionally they test for testosterone levels and ban both male and female competitors for levels that are too high. There is currently a case of a South African women believed to be intersex and winner of 2 Olympic gold medals, Caster Semenya who is currently blocked from competition. Refer to the link below if you are interested.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/caster-semenya-on-being-unable-to-compete-without-altering-hormones-i-will-continue-to-fight/ar-BB18SnPr

 

In the US, the issues is related to Article IX which mandate funding levels for female university sport in the US. Before puberty, there isn't a discernible difference in performance between children and this should be an issue. What will be an issue will be parents 'outing' children based on the adult's personal bias. When my wife was coaching 6-7 year girls soccer, an opposing coach accused her of playing a boy because one of the girls liked her very short. It was ridiculous on an may levels.

 

The issue comes at the collegiate level and the high school level where there could be competitive issues for trans-feminine  athletes that started transition after puberty. Trans masculine athletes are probably are disadvantaged in competition by the effects of hormones on muscle growth etc. Realistically, how many cis-gendered individuals would be willing to present as another sex just to win a race. Anti-doping testing will identify any such cases at the expense of privacy. The biggest danger would be the bigotry applied to such athletes especially if they are talented.

 

It is just another example of extreme viewpoints being the loudest and demonizing the issue.

 

I'm still in the process of coming terms with my own identity. If I chose to transition, I would strongly to continue pursuing my sport. I'm not in the gifted program when it comes to racing and I could live with not being eligible to win a race. However, I would not want to have to label myself anything than a women triathlete.

 

Sorry for being long winded, but this is something important to me. I wish people would learn to think rather than shout.

I’m also an athlete in transition. I’m by no means a talented athlete, but USAC allows for transgender cyclists. I’m not entirely familiar with the rules, but it has to do with hormone levels. There’s a Colorado cyclist who transitioned who has been quite successful  on the National Level.

 

My goal is to be fit as possible before I begin HRT (hopefully next week...fingers crossed). I’ll just race with the boys until the time is right.

[KimmieElise]

1 hour ago, Erica Gabriel said:

My goal is to be fit as possible before I begin HRT (hopefully next week...fingers crossed). I’ll just race with the boys until the time is right.

 

I hope you are able to start HRT.  For me it has been an amazing experience!  Do keep us informed.

 

[Jackie C.]

8 hours ago, KimmieElise said:

For example, a lot of cis people assume all MtF are gay men looking for a way to make themselves more sexually palatable to straight cis men.

 

Which is funny, because only about 20% of us are straight.

 

8 hours ago, KimmieElise said:

I don't think bathroom bills are necessarily about being anti-trans, but are about being protective of cis women (even though those views are often based in ignorance).

 

Bathroom bills are more anti-trans. The only way you'd "see a penis" in a women's restroom would be if you were crawling under stalls. They're ALWAYS presented as, "Oh no! This little girl might see a penis!" The only way that could happen is if that little girl was crawling under stalls looking for one.

If some dude wanted to slide into the women's restroom to attack someone, he wouldn't need to go to all the trouble of dressing up as a woman. He'd just walk in. I was reading something the other day that tracks this belief back to two movies. One was "Psycho." The other one was more obscure, but the same thing. 70's movie. Man dresses up as a woman so he can get close to his victims. "Psychiatrist" at the end explains deviant behavior. Roll end credits. Then the public consciousness decided that we're all perverts and sexual predators. They always point at MtFs too. Never the FtM's.

Granted MtFs absorb the brunt of transphobia because we tend to be easier to identify (probably). At the end of the day it's just a way to whip up the base against a minority enemy. Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now. Ahem. Carry on.

 

8 hours ago, KimmieElise said:

As to the notion of someone using "trans" status inappropriately, we already have at least one example of this existing in the form of one individual in Canada who deliberately put small businesses in a bad situation as a pretense for suing them, has a history of litigious  activity targeting cis people, has shown an extraordinary interest in young women, menstruation, and as of late has called emergency services at least once a day to pull her naked body out of a bath tub.

 

That sounds like a person who is legitimately mentally ill. 

 

8 hours ago, KimmieElise said:

While that may seem logical to us, I have learned not to discount such possibilities out of hand.  I can't rule out the possibility someone might "transition" simply to dominate a sport.  I think such an individual would be extremely rare, but it certainly is possible. 

 

That was an (incredibly offensive) episode of South Park. Samantha Lux did a video on it if you don't want to subject yourself to the whole thing. Which brings us back to hormone levels or at least commitment. I've seen how much easier it is to build muscle on T than E. One of the guys I work out with is an absolute unit. I work out harder and longer than he does and, while I'm in better shape than I was, I've still got a long way to go and I'll never be able to match him physically (assuming he keeps it up, if he stops exercising for a couple years that's a whole new situation).

Chromosomes are out of the question as a marker. There are way too many variables that determine if your genes express male or female. I'd still say hormones here as a gatekeeping measure so long as it's applied equally. Still no idea what to do with intersex women though.

 

So yeah, I'm very pro-girl, but I think ALL the girls should get to compete so long as they're on a more-or-less level playing field. I mean it's not going to be completely level no matter what you do because genetics exist. All you can do is, well, like boxing where they have weight classes. Maybe that's the answer. Instead of boys and girls, you get a class based on your size, weight and hormone breakdown. Not my thing though, I don't follow sports.

 

Hugs!

[Ivy]

5 hours ago, Jackie C. said:

12 hours ago, KimmieElise said:

As to the notion of someone using "trans" status inappropriately, we already have at least one example of this existing in the form of one individual in Canada who deliberately put small businesses in a bad situation as a pretense for suing them, has a history of litigious  activity targeting cis people, has shown an extraordinary interest in young women, menstruation, and as of late has called emergency services at least once a day to pull her naked body out of a bath tub.

 

That sounds like a person who is legitimately mentally ill. 

 

Yeah… this.   I am somewhat familiar with this and about all I can say is there's always one.  This person does seem to have serious mental issues.

 

12 hours ago, KimmieElise said:

While that may seem logical to us, I have learned not to discount such possibilities out of hand.  I can't rule out the possibility someone might "transition" simply to dominate a sport.  I think such an individual would be extremely rare, but it certainly is possible.  

I repeat, there's always one.

 

Seriously, this sport issue is more complicated than our bathroom bills.

[KimmieElise]

5 hours ago, Jackie C. said:

That sounds like a person who is legitimately mentally ill. 

 

1 hour ago, Jandi said:

Yeah… this.   I am somewhat familiar with this and about all I can say is there's always one.  This person does seem to have serious mental issues.

 

1 hour ago, Jandi said:

I repeat, there's always one.

 

Unfortunately, one is enough.  A lot of the local media in her area have portrayed her as a "trans" activist.

[Jackie C.]

2 hours ago, KimmieElise said:

A lot of the local media in her area have portrayed her as a "trans" activist.

 

Your local media is obviously fluffing her up for the story potential. Unfortunately people will believe them. It's a little tragic how our media outlets will pump up something like this for the outrage points.

 

Hugs!

[KimmieElise]

1 hour ago, Jackie C. said:

 

Your local media is obviously fluffing her up for the story potential. Unfortunately people will believe them. It's a little tragic how our media outlets will pump up something like this for the outrage points.

 

Hugs!

Might be, but I was referring to her local media, not mine.