North Dakota Bill Would Require Employers Use Pronouns "Associated With Deoxyribonucleic Acid"

[Ivy]

https://erininthemorn.substack.com/p/north-dakota-bill-would-require-employers

 

I can understand misgendering as "free speech."  But Forced misgendering?

 

"The bill mandates that “words used to reference an individual’s sex, gender, gender identity, or gender expression mean the individual’s determined sex at birth, male or female.” It also mandates that this be determined through the individual’s deoxyribonucleic acid, their DNA. Those who violate will be charged by the state a fee of $1,500."

 

I want to think this would certainly be struck down in court if it ever makes it that far.  But lately, I'm not so sure.  

I mean, forcing people to misgender trans-people under threat of a fine?

Allowing discrimination is bad enough, but this would require it.

[Marcie Jensen]

This type of bill may explain why there are so few people in ND. It's clear their elected politicians brains; are frozen.

[KathyLauren]

And what about cisgender women who have CAIS?  Are people required to address them with male pronouns just because their DNA says XY?  The level of stupidity boggles the mind.

[VickySGV]

Big polysyllables does not equate to even nominal intelligence, the sort that keeps you from kissing the handle of your farm water pump in -50 weather. 

[Carolyn Marie]

As our current President would say, that's a bunch of malarkey!  And yes, I'm old enough to be entitled to use that word.  LOL! 

 

I'm mean, really?  You're going to check someone's DNA before using a pronoun in speech or writing?  And who will provide the court order to force someone to submit to a blood test?  And who will pay for said blood test?   

 

Carolyn Marie

[Aggie1]

Actually this might do the exact opposite of what they intended. DNA can determine sexual orientation, gender expression, hormone levels, female brain, etc. my identity is not a figment of my imagination. It’s rooted in biology. Estrogen works better in my system than testosterone. This might not be true for someone who identifies strongly as male and who doesn’t get it. 
 

I say, bring it! DNA is on my side in this issue. 

[awkward-yet-sweet]

Hmmm... And have they decided how people with atypical chromosomes will be addressed.  XXY? XYY? XXYY?

 

This one is going to get shot down on First Amendment grounds, guaranteed.  

[Ivy]

9 minutes ago, Katie23 said:

The craziest part of all of this is these idiots are seriously going to try to do this stuff. I am sick of it.

It's getting to me.  I'll admit, I'm depressed.

At this point they are concentrating on younger trans and their families.  But they're working their way up.  The "Drag" bans could apply to everyone.  If they can ban HRT for "underage" trans, they can ban it for all of us.

With these people in control of the House, it will block any effort to protect us at the federal level.

So, yeah…

14 minutes ago, Katie23 said:

the American Reich.

NC is in theory a purple state (LOL)  But the GOP just made a rule change that they can hold a vote to override the governor's veto at any time without any prior notification.  As it is, there is only 1 Dem vote stopping it.

I HOPE I'm being overly pessimistic.

But like I said - depressed.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

I live in deep red country. To me, the American Reich looks more like an American USSR.... same garbage from slightly different angles.

 

Yeah, my state legislature is trying a lot of this crap.  But the people notice...and they are angry that the government is spending time on chasing a tiny minority instead of dealing with important issues like economic security.  That doesn't mean LGBTQ folks are noticed or popular...just a non-issue.    

 

I'd love it if this dissent leads to a separation from the state...and the Fed.  

[Ivy]

2 hours ago, Katie23 said:

I rarely get anything from the public, and yet, we are made out to be one of the worst things to have happened in the entire history of mankind.

This.   I don't really have any trouble in my everyday life either.  Of course I try not to do anything stupid.

I get my propane tanks (for heater) refilled at the Tractor Supply.  But they're always friendly and don't misgender me.  They seem a little amused at times, but no hostility.  We have normal conversations and such.  

I think it is true that most normal people are happy just to get along with each other.

 

On another note, these "Don't say gay" laws are pointless.  Sooner or later the kids are going to find out that LGBTQ people exist.  Some will inevitably realize, "Hey, that's me."

[Davie]

5 hours ago, Katie23 said:

I already know of several instances where the kids were so depressed that they killed themselves.

 

Yes. The statistics for trans kids bear this out. From the NIH: "Data indicate that 82% of transgender individuals have considered killing themselves and 40% have attempted suicide, with suicidality highest among transgender youth." A very sad thing, especially when we see one adult who gives acceptance and love to a child, most likely saves their life.

I wonder . . . is there a Big Brother and Big Sister program for trans kids? That might help.

[Davie]

I found this and something similar in Seattle:

"Big Brothers Big Sisters of Santa Cruz County (BBBS) has always been open and inclusive, striving to ensure that every child feels welcome in the program and is comfortable being themselves. As one of 38 affiliates taking part in the LGBTQ mentoring initiative pilot program, the organization is taking a more thoughtful approach to issues of gender identity and fluidity." 

 

https://www.cfscc.org/blog/big-brothers-big-sisters-pioneers-transmentoring-program

[Russ Fenrisson]

@Davie I did wonder about that as well. I'm glad they have these. Where young and questioning people have a safe space to be themselves and explore their identity, at least a small part of the day.

[Russ Fenrisson]

I did find it funny when the bill specifically said to refer to someone by what's in their "deoxyribonucleic acid." I feel like whoever wrote that in the bill had a good high-five session with their friends and patted themselves on the back afterwards, congratulating themselves for being able to use big, smart words. Politics has been getting weird lately. I take into consideration the implications these laws will have if passed but honestly... a lot of them are hard to take seriously because it feels no real, mature thought was put in them.

[Davie]

On 1/12/2023 at 3:03 PM, Ivy said:

want to think this would certainly be struck down in court if it ever makes it that far.  But lately, I'm not so sure.  

I mean, forcing people to misgender trans-people under threat of a fine?

Really? Doesn't this thread belong under the Jokes topic? Too soon?

[awkward-yet-sweet]

33 minutes ago, Davie said:

Really? Doesn't this thread belong under the Jokes topic? Too soon?

It might be funny if politicians and Big Tech weren't constantly trying to censor everyone.  As soon as someone opens the door to the idea of restricting speech, it never ends.

 

That is why I can never approve of restrictions on speech of any sort. I don't mind if someone insults me, calls me hateful names, or speaks in other negative ways.  I believe even the Nazis should be able to speak their minds.  If I entertained the idea of restricting even the nasty people, sooner or later the restrictions show up in other places.  

 

IIRC, it was Voltaire who said something like, "I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." 

[Astrid]

1 hour ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

That is why I can never approve of restrictions on speech of any sort.

 

Even where personal safety is involved?  Case example: allow anyone to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater, repeatedly, until the day comes when there's an actual fire and no one's paying attention any longer.  

[awkward-yet-sweet]

28 minutes ago, Astrid said:

 

Even where personal safety is involved?  Case example: allow anyone to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater, repeatedly, until the day comes when there's an actual fire and no one's paying attention any longer.  

 

Yes, even then.  Liberty can be dangerous when people misuse it, but we're finding out that the loss of Liberty is even worse.  

 

I find it interesting that typically the Left has been in favor of censorship, until it affects something they care about. The Right has typically been in favor of free speech, until somebody wants to speak something they don't agree with. To me, it shows that very few people really believe in Liberty for everyone. Most are simply seeking to harness the power of the State to stomp on folks they disagree with....and religious, ethnic, and gender minorities tend to get the worst stomping.

 

 

[Carolyn Marie]

Let's get this back on topic, please!  Thank you all.

 

Carolyn Marie

[Marcie Jensen]

1 hour ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

 

Yes, even then.  Liberty can be dangerous when people misuse it, but we're finding out that the loss of Liberty is even worse.  

 

I find it interesting that typically the Left has been in favor of censorship, until it affects something they care about. The Right has typically been in favor of free speech, until somebody wants to speak something they don't agree with. To me, it shows that very few people really believe in Liberty for everyone. Most are simply seeking to harness the power of the State to stomp on folks they disagree with....and religious, ethnic, and gender minorities tend to get the worst stomping.

 

 

Well said. Well reasoned. Well put. I think you're entitled to a mic drop.

[Ivy]

I'm okay with free speech including things I don't agree with.

The trolling bothers me though.  It doesn't contribute anything but just shows how our society has come to accept mindless cruelty.  

 

The subject of the OP was forcing (businesses in this case) to misgender trans people - mostly out of spite when it comes down to it.  I mean why else?  Why is it coming to this?

 

I mean, sometimes I just shake my head in disbelief.  Other times I want to curl up in a ball and cry.

Why does anyone else care what kind of underwear (or none) I'm wearing?  How I wear my hair?  Or who I want to cuddle up with?  Why are parents who support their kids suddenly criminals?  

Politicians that have never spoken to a trans person in their lives pass laws about us.  And they consider themselves experts.  Self righteousness trumps any hint of empathy.  

 

I am so tired.  Do these people actually believe that if they get rid of us the world will be perfect again?  It wasn't before, and probably never will be.  Their problem isn't me, it's themselves.

 

 

[Davie]

Thank you @Ivy Well said. Period.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

1 hour ago, Ivy said:

The subject of the OP was forcing (businesses in this case) to misgender trans people - mostly out of spite when it comes down to it.  I mean why else?  Why is it coming to this?

You're right...a lot of it comes down to spite.

 

There are *some* who believe that they are being (or will be) forced to call trans people by their preferred gender or pronouns.  This bill is a spiteful backlash against that perception.  I think I can see both sides of it, although I think many on the right have misunderstood what is (in most cases) a simple request for politeness.

 

Even if some people want to decline to use a person's preferred pronouns or form of address, it shouldn't be turned into spiteful un-Constitutional legislation. 

[Marcie Jensen]

In some ways this goes beyond stupid. The proposed bill is unenforceable and most probably unconstitutional. But it does give me a mental picture of employers requiring DNA testing as well as drug screening prior to offering employment to anyone. I suspect this will drive businesses away from ND if the bill passes and have a huge economic impact in addition to the social one. Just goes to show--never underestimate the intelligence of a politician.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

25 minutes ago, Marcie Jensen said:

In some ways this goes beyond stupid. The proposed bill is unenforceable and most probably unconstitutional. But it does give me a mental picture of employers requiring DNA testing as well as drug screening prior to offering employment to anyone. I suspect this will drive businesses away from ND if the bill passes and have a huge economic impact in addition to the social one. Just goes to show--never underestimate the intelligence of a politician.

If it passes, which is unlikely, I doubt it will have any impact on North Dakota in general. Doing business is about money, and small minorities don't really have a financial impact. What impact there is in driving away trans people from the state simply won't show up on the bottom line in fact, there may be a greater positive impact for North Dakota as people from other locations move there. 

 

Let's face it... Being a minority of a minority is an extreme disadvantage. One of many reasons why my gender and sexuality are NOT the primary features of my identity.