This stunt by the Tennessee Republican legislature at once both evil and self defeatingly stupid.

[Guest]

The Tennessee Republican state legislature was getting away with whatever it wanted, with no one paying attention. Their decision to try to expel these three Democrats on false grounds is one of the dumbest, most self defeating political moves of all time. Now EVERYONE is paying attention. Smart corrupt politicians know that if you want real power, you seize it while no one is looking, and you exercise it when no one is paying attention. Only complete morons would think that a highly visible stunt like this will somehow make them more powerful. Trump inspired so many bombastic morons to go into Republican politics, they’ve ended up with people in charge who think that political power is derived from reality show stunts like this. This stunt ensures that every liberal and moderate in Tennessee will make a point of voting out as many of these Republican state legislators as possible. It ensures that nationwide money will pour into the Tennessee state legislature elections for the Democrats. Tennessee is a red state. Republicans could have retained power there and kept quietly getting away with whatever awful things they wanted, for as long as they wanted, with no real scrutiny. All they had to do was not pull an attention-grabbing stunt like this.

 

Not only was this a terribly stupid idea, it’s falling apart in real time. After they expelled Democratic Rep. Justin Jones, a Black man, they tried and failed by one vote to expel Rep. Gloria Johnson, a white woman. Expelling all three of them would have been one of the stupidest and most self defeating political stunts of all time. This is even stupider and more self defeating. I didn’t think they could top it. But they found a way.

 

These Republican morons have turned Justin Jones into a powerful martyr who will now lead the charge against them. They’ve painted themselves as blatant racists. And, by targeting Gloria Johnson but not expelling her, they’ve handed her a much louder voice within the legislature. She’s already calling them out for the racism of expelling Jones but not her.

By the way, Justin Jones can just turn around and run for his own seat in a special election, which he will win. He’s going to end up being a national star, and he’ll soon have his seat back, if he doesn’t instead decide to move on to bigger things.

Savvy racist politicians carry out their racism in a way that gives them a sliver of deniability with moderate voters. This is the opposite of savvy. This is just so evil. And yet so self defeatingly stupid at the same time.

   
I keep thinking this Tennessee Republican legislature story has to be some satirical article from The Onion and that it can’t really be happening. I keep checking the news to make sure I’m not hallucinating. No one, who’s already in power, is this self defeatingly stupid in the name of trying to flaunt that power, are they? Apparently they are. I’m not even sure yet what this battle in Tennessee is going to look like, because Republicans are still digging a deeper hole. But whatever this battle ends up being, we’re going to fight and win it. Tennessee was never in play for the Democrats. Now it just might be.

[Vidanjali]

Here's a reference for those who haven't heard. 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/07/us/tennessee-democrat-house-representatives-expelled-friday/index.html

 

I heard about it on the radio this morning. They interviewed one of the Justins, apologies - I can't recall the surname. The republicans responsible for ousting said the actions of those ousted were worse than the Jan 6 insurrection. Um...people were murdered and terrorized on Jan 6 as the result of a democratic election was attempted to be thwarted vs the dem reps spoke out of turn. Justin reported that they were shut down numerous times when they tried to speak (in turn) on gun control - their mics were shut off, etc. This escalated the situation to where they felt they had no other choice than to speak out to represent the interests of those whom they represent. Because they were therefore massively disproportionately accused of insurrection, they were ousted. Justin said, they spoke out knowing they'd face consequences and were resigned to accept them, but this turned into a travesty. 

 

The silver lining I keep hoping for is the natural consequence of hubris, the fall. These power-lusting fiends continue to enable each other to more and more outrageous tyrannical action. Sooner or later, I HOPE, we the people will all see them for who they are and commit to not take it any longer. 

[awkward-yet-sweet]

13 hours ago, Vidanjali said:

Um...people were murdered and terrorized on Jan 6 as the result of a democratic election was attempted to be thwarted vs the dem reps spoke out of turn.

 

Murdered?  Well, if you mean Ashly Babbitt who was shot by the Capitol police, then perhaps.  But in spite of what the media will say, the other handful of deaths were a byproduct of a disorderly situation.  One rioter trampled by the crowd, and a few people with strokes and heart attacks.  A couple of suicides.  Let's be accurate.

 

In my opinion, January 6th was/is mostly hyperbole.  Everything seems to be these days....this string of events is just another example.  Calling January 6th an "insurrection" has opened the door for calling just about any kind of riot or disorderly protest an insurrection.  It cheapens a word that would normally be reserved for some kind of military coup or sizeable armed revolt.  What these Democrat Representatives did...definitely rude and out of order.  Does that justify expulsion from the legislature?  I take issue with the process.  That decision ought to be up to the voters or perhaps the judicial branch, not simply a vote from other elected members.  That seems to violate the idea of separation of powers, although from what i understand it is possible for this to happen in other legislative bodies.   

[Carolyn Marie]

9 minutes ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

 

In my opinion, January 6th was/is mostly hyperbole.  Everything seems to be these days....this string of events is just another example.  Calling January 6th an "insurrection" has opened the door for calling just about any kind of riot or disorderly protest an insurrection.

 

Hyperbole?  Really?  Please let me remind you of some facts, @awkward-yet-sweet:

 

*476 people (so far) have pleaded guilty.

*133 of those were for felonies.

*3 Oath Keepers were convicted of seditious conspiracy.

*Several Proud Boys have also been on trial for seditious conspiracy.

*114 Capitol Police Officers were injured that day, many of them seriously.  Several rioters have been convicted of assault, battery and other violent crimes.

*Several rioters were armed with firearms, others had knives, bats, bear spray, or used improvised weapons such as flag poles, metal barricades, etc.

 

You are entitled to your opinion, and I know how much you dislike government actions of any kind.  But I will not let false statements about that day go unchallenged if they minimize what happened or put forward "alternative facts."  The rioters had every intention of preventing a peaceful transfer of power.  That is a proven, and in many cases an admitted fact. 

 

Carolyn Marie

[awkward-yet-sweet]

@Carolyn Marie  I believe that where we disagree is our interpretation of the same set of facts.  I respect your opinion even though we differ. 

 

Assault, battery, violent crimes.  Yes.  Those things happen in riots.  The bigger the riot, the more violence there is.  Improvised weapons are also typical of riots.  Lots of people (some say 2000+) in an area with a focused law enforcement presence (or vigorous prosecution) will lead to lots of charges.  These things are consistent with what people do in riots, and the type of violence was consistent with what we saw all over the nation in 2020.  The number and strange variety of groups and motivations involved is also consistent with rioting and disorder. 

 

In a nation with more guns than people and a number of well-armed groups, the absence of shooting during something labeled "insurrection" seems very unusual to me.  Especially since the laws used to prosecute people for sedition/insurrection/conspiracy were created in the context of the Civil War, which involved quite a lot of shooting and initial military mutiny.  This context is the basis of my perspective.  

 

Here's a couple of sources that support what I said about the number and nature of the deaths:

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/04/07/capitol-riot-deaths-cause-death-released-4-5-not-sicknick/7128040002/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Brian_Sicknick

 

My point is that the words people use to describe an event influence how people perceive later events, including the situation in the Tennessee legislature. 

[Marcie Jensen]

3 hours ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

  What these Democrat Representatives did...definitely rude and out of order.  Does that justify expulsion from the legislature?  I take issue with the process.  That decision ought to be up to the voters or perhaps the judicial branch, not simply a vote from other elected members.  That seems to violate the idea of separation of powers, although from what i understand it is possible for this to happen in other legislative bodies.   

Apparently, being expelled from the TN legislature for, as they put it, "lack of proper decorum," is justified under their rules. I can't say I agree with it, but I guess it's their right to run their legislature as they see fit. Frankly, it's the business of the TN voters and no one else's. It wasn't racist, fascist, communist or any other "ist" or "ism." They legislators in question knew the rules, knowingly violated them and paid the price. End of story.

[Charlize]

I am rather surprised that charges of treason have not been brought after that mob attack on the US capitol but that is off topic.

 

 

3 hours ago, Marcie Jensen said:

Frankly, it's the business of the TN voters and no one else's. It wasn't racist, fascist, communist or any other "ist" or "ism."

It will be interesting to see if the ousted politician of color wins the special election by a landslide.

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize

[Vidanjali]

Michael Steele; Former RNC Chairman, Former Lt. Gov. Maryland & Political Analyst for MSNBC; powerful message to ousted rep Justin Jones: 

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CqvJMUCP8Wv/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=

[Vidanjali]

5 hours ago, Marcie Jensen said:

Apparently, being expelled from the TN legislature for, as they put it, "lack of proper decorum," is justified under their rules. I can't say I agree with it, but I guess it's their right to run their legislature as they see fit. Frankly, it's the business of the TN voters and no one else's. It wasn't racist, fascist, communist or any other "ist" or "ism." They legislators in question knew the rules, knowingly violated them and paid the price. End of story.

 

Their ousting was an extreme and unexpected consequence which strips voters of the representation they elected & therefore undermines democracy. 

 

From https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/tennessee-expulsion-house-democrats-expelled-what-happens-now/

Why is the expulsion so unusual? 

The forced expulsion of lawmakers from any state legislative body in the United States is a rare event.

In Tennessee, just eight lawmakers have been expelled from the house in the past. Six of those were Confederates who were expelled in the 19th century for refusing to affirm the citizenship of formerly enslaved Black people. In the 20th century, a legislator was expelled after being convicted of bribery, and in 2016, a member was expelled for sexual misconduct.

Before his vote, Jones listed other lawmakers who have acted unprofessionally or been investigated for misconduct but not been expelled from the legislature, calling the votes an "extreme measure" that is an "attempt to silence and undo the will of over 200,000 Tennesseans" represented by the trio. 

[Marcie Jensen]

2 hours ago, Charlize said:

It will be interesting to see if the ousted politician of color wins the special election by a landslide.

 

I agree. And, I hope so. That would send a clear and needed message.

[Ivy]

Unless I'm misinformed, the demonstration they participated in was a reaction to their not being allowed to be heard in the session.  (There have been similar things done to stifle trans-rights representatives in a number of states.). Yeah, they were "unruly" but it seems like censuring them might have been more appropriate then expelling them.  The expulsion demonstrates that the state is firmly in the complete control of the GOP, and dissent will not be tolerated.

 

As for Jan 6…

Perhaps what happened at the capital could be more accurately called a riot.  But it was instigated in conjunction with what was an actual coup attempt.  (I don't think a coup has to necessarily involve the military and tanks etc.)  While I don't claim to be a fan of Mike Pence, I consider him a hero of sorts for refusing to go along with the plans of the coup.

 

As a side note…  Ashly Babbitt's death was unfortunate.  But I would hardly consider it murder.  I watched it.  She was repeatedly warned not to try to enter the barricaded corridor by armed police, who were charged with protecting the congressmen (and women) who were fleeing the mob.  Yet she still attempted to climb through a smashed window to get to them.

But of course she is considered a martyr by many.

 

American politics has become a surreal fantasy.  I'm beginning to hate it here.  There, I said it.  Call me what ever you want.

[Ivy]

3 minutes ago, Marcie Jensen said:

2 hours ago, Charlize said:

It will be interesting to see if the ousted politician of color wins the special election by a landslide.

 

Of course they will.  But it won't matter.

I need to get off of this thread for now.

[Marcie Jensen]

20 minutes ago, Vidanjali said:

 

Their ousting was an extreme and unexpected consequence which strips voters of the representation they elected & therefore undermines democracy. 

Absolutely it was extreme, unusual and unexpected. I don't think it rises to the level of undermining democracy, though. I say this because first and foremost, this country and the "several states" aren't democracies. Never have been. The accurate description of our government is "federal constitutional representative republic." Additionally, the action appears to be within the rules that the TN legislature uses internally. Was it an abuse of power by the majority party? YES! Were there other avenues to sanction the expelled members? YES (And were in fact used when they were stripped of their committee assignments.) Was this a really stupid thing to do? Yes; because it just angers and rouses the democrats' base. And much as it pains me to agree with any politician, I think AOC got it right when she tweeted that "Gen Z don't play" referring to the next election.

[Vidanjali]

On 4/7/2023 at 12:19 PM, Vidanjali said:

murdered 

 

I meant to say killed. Sorry, brain fog. I did not mean to instigate any theories of intent & I understand the two words are not synonymous. 

[Vidanjali]

On Monday Nashville's Metropolitan Council voted to unanimously reinstate Justin Jones. Shelby County Board of Commissioners will vote today has on Justin Pearson's potential reinstatement. 

[Carolyn Marie]

Rep. Pearson's reinstatement will be the icing on the cake of the TN Republicans' humiliation.  Karma is a ...you know what.

 

Carolyn Marie

[Vidanjali]

4 hours ago, Carolyn Marie said:

Rep. Pearson's reinstatement will be the icing on the cake of the TN Republicans' humiliation.  Karma is a ...you know what.

 

Carolyn Marie

 

Pearson was also unanimously voted to be reinstated by Board of Commissioners ✊

[Ivy]

A circus 

[VickySGV]

The clown fire department who throws gasoline on a fire and wonders why they are being handed BBQ sauce.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

If they could be reinstated this easily, then removing them was pointless in the first place.  I wonder if that was a surprise, or something the Republicans foresaw but did anyway just to make a statement? 

 

Given that the representatives support gun "control," I don't see their reinstatement as something exactly positive, even though their removal wasn't nice or appropriate either.  Some things just...are.  Interesting to watch the system chewing itself to pieces.  

[Charlize]

I smiled to see the folks reinstated.  While i live in a state with powerful laws governing firearms i can purchase what i need on the farm or for hunting.  I am not part of a "well regulated militia"  so i don't need or desire weapons designed for war.

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize 

[Ivy]

7 hours ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

Given that the representatives support gun "control," I don't see their reinstatement as something exactly positive

I don't think you need to worry about the Tennessee legislature instigating gun control unless it is for "certain dangerous people."

[awkward-yet-sweet]

41 minutes ago, Ivy said:

I don't think you need to worry about the Tennessee legislature instigating gun control unless it is for "certain dangerous people."

 

True. Which makes this whole episode even more puzzling. Why did these Representatives go out of their way to be obnoxious? And why did a majority of the legislature feel the need to act so strongly yet ineffectively against them? To me, each aspect of this thing is questionable.  

 

 

[Ivy]

1 hour ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

To me, each aspect of this thing is questionable. 

Political theater