My Dreams Of Camp :(

[Guest MrAwesome]

I need the Dr. To fill out a Physical form for me to go to camp. The Dr.s can't fill out anything referring to genitalia as anything but what it is. and the one Dr who's trans friendly in Pittsburgh that I was hoping would do it doesn't encourage me to go to camp, and won't fill it out. My last hope is my Physician, and I'm not sure if she will do it.

There's only 3 things on there she might not be able to fill out.

Name -

Sex -

And there's a question about Genitalia, if it's normal or abnormal.

I also am "Obese" I'm 5'6" and almost 230lbs. It says the maximum I can be is 201 A lot of the weight though is Muscle. It's how I carry it. My mom is as much, maybe even less than I am, and the same height, and she looks "Obese" I don't. I'm gonna try to lose as much weight as I can before hand, but still...

My gender therapist is giving me problems about joining the boyscouts because they're not LGBT friendly. I don't care what anyone says, I'm a boyscout, and this is my dream.

[Guest Chris_421]

I think the question about genitalia is ridiculous. But the Boy Scouts in the u.s.a is a private organization and can discriminate based on sexual orientation and gender identity. If you had found a GLBT friendly group then awesome!

Personally, I'm unsure if you should as well, unless you go as your birth sex (do the boy scouts accept female bodied people anyway?). When I was younger I was in Cub Scouts, and Scouts (first year I was with the group it was all female, then was co-ed) but during that time I was living as female though a lot more masculine. It didn't hold so much of a religious aspect, but it did have some influence.

In the end it is up to you, if your doctor will write it as you wish or if you go as your birth sex.

[Guest Martin]

I'm sorry. I hate it when I get my hopes up for something and then it falls through.

[Sally]

I am so sorry that you have to learn this leasson so early in life, but the truth is sometimes your dreams must remain just that.

There is so much of our lives that are beyond our control.

I know how much this has meant to you and I am having a hard time even typing this because I am crying so hard that I can't see through my glasses.

It won't help much to know the reasons when you have just had a dream crushed but as a private organization the Boy Scouts are resposibile for the safety of all of their campers - the insurance premiums are astronmical because of all of the natural hazards.

They cannot afford to take someone who is physically female into the woods with a group of all teenage males.

Like I said knowing why doesn't help, but I can only explain because in my lifetime I have never managed to change anything.

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest joeytheman16]

Bud of mine,

This completely sucks. I hope your physicain comes through for you. Otherwise, I will go to Pennsylvania and defend you. This is a load of B.S.

As for the "obese" thing, those scales are for people that have the average muscle amount. I am also "obese" by my weight. But I have a large amount of muscle on my 5'3" body. I weigh 165lbs and the max is about 115lbs. I know how you feel. Don't worry about what the chart or whatever says. This is B.S. too.

Hope this helped you out.

--Joey

[Guest Zabrak]

I hope you'll be able to go.

However, if you can't...

"He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight."

Meaning sometimes you need to know when to back down from a fight, and that in itself is your victory.

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

Awww....man.... That's not cool. I know how much camp meant to you. That's a real bummer.

The BSA isn't affiliated with any specific religious group, but it is a very conservative organization. They've got a long history of discriminating against GLBT people. Just something to think about...

I used to be in 4H, which I always thought was kind of a farm thing. My 4H club wasn't so much like that. We used to build rockets and stuff like that. At one point we learned how to fix lawnmower engines, which is actually more exciting than you might expect.

I guess my point is that, if the scout camp thing falls through, maybe you can find some other fun stuff to do instead.

[Guest Leigh]

good luck bro....

and Oh my goodness is the question about genitalia??? how is that their business at all????

geez...

yeah..good luck.

peace&love

leigh

[Guest MrAwesome]

I'm going, that's final. As who I am, a boy. I will NOT let this dream be taken away from me. I am Strong. I am Loyal, to my friends, and to my Beliefs. And will NEVER let ANYTHING hold me back EVER again. Not like when I was younger. I would never give in that easy. But it is hard for me to deal with all this stress.

[Guest joeytheman16]

As long as you keep up that attitude you'll be good to go!!

[Guest Joe Cool]

Good luck Lewis!

You certainly have the right attitude! Sometimes though, things are out of our control. Keep fighting for yourself! If this doesn't work out - there are other camps that would be more supportive and less stressful for you. Hang in there!

Joe

[Guest MrAwesome]

*puffs out chest and pulls back shoulders and straightens back* *marches around* darn right I got the right attitude

[Guest Tofi]

I'm going, that's final. As who I am, a boy. I will NOT let this dream be taken away from me. I am Strong. I am Loyal, to my friends, and to my Beliefs. And will NEVER let ANYTHING hold me back EVER again. Not like when I was younger. I would never give in that easy. But it is hard for me to deal with all this stress.

Some times we just have to admit defeat in life it sucks but then so does life at times. You're asking your doctor to lie about your physical gender at the moment and that could get them in lots of trouble if something were to happen at scouts camp, thats not fair dragging someone else into the situation. I have a dream about joining the marines but its not going to happen does it mean I have a bad attitude admitting that it wont happen no it just means as an adult you have to accept that people are some times discrimitry agaisnt all sorts of people. Do you not think your engery will be better spent campagining agaisnt the scouts policys? I can't get my head round why someone would want to support an organisation that is openly homophobic and transphobic.

Sorry if my post comes accross as negitive.

[Guest ~Brenda~]

Dearest Lewis,

I admire your courage and determination to be who you are and to show to the world who you are. Personally, I think that your doctor needs to only provide the necessary information that you a physically fit to join boy scouts. I do not remember that gender identity was ever a question asked for boy scouts considering that was just a given... boy scouts. I think that if you want to join the boy scouts, then hon, join as the boy you are. You go and sign up as Lewis and I bet everyone will accept you as Lewis without question. Nothing ventured, nothing gained are words that I live by. If this mission does not work out for you (I think it will not fail), then do not blame yourself hon. You fought, and it is in the fight, we are ourselves.

I wish you all the luck and love and success possible.

You are the man... you are awesome!

Go for it!!!

HUGS

Brenda

[Guest MrAwesome]

Tofi, how dare you! I will NEVER give up. I can settle for less, sometimes, but completely giving up one something, it's not me. And I don't care if I have to write the president of the united states Himself and "Campaign" so that I can go to boy scout camp, I WILL DO IT! >_< NOTHING will stand in my way EVER AGAIN of doing something just because I'm trans. I'll either do it, or die trying. And nobody better tell me that I should give up and tuck my tail between my legs and "Accept" it. Blacks, and Women used to be discriminated against too. More so than we are in ways. Way back when, Blacks were made to be slaves! Now a-days, they are School Teachers, Police officers, Doctors, Therapists, Psychiatrists, they can be anything they want to be. Women used to not be able to join the Military, I'm not sure if they were able to vote. There weren't Women in the higher parts of Government. Now, we had a woman campaigning to be president.

We are just the next in line for rights! It's not Illegal anymore to be gay, there's anti-discrimination laws for gays, and laws popping up for trans people as well. and one day, We're going to wake up, and be able to be openly LGBTQ, without worry of Discrimination. And though it's probably impossible to completely Eliminate it, it's going to be a lot better than what it is now.

-deep breath-

[Guest Tofi]

Tofi, how dare you! I will NEVER give up. I can settle for less, sometimes, but completely giving up one something, it's not me. And I don't care if I have to write the president of the united states Himself and "Campaign" so that I can go to boy scout camp, I WILL DO IT! >_< NOTHING will stand in my way EVER AGAIN of doing something just because I'm trans. I'll either do it, or die trying. And nobody better tell me that I should give up and tuck my tail between my legs and "Accept" it. Blacks, and Women used to be discriminated against too. More so than we are in ways. Way back when, Blacks were made to be slaves! Now a-days, they are School Teachers, Police officers, Doctors, Therapists, Psychiatrists, they can be anything they want to be. Women used to not be able to join the Military, I'm not sure if they were able to vote. There weren't Women in the higher parts of Government. Now, we had a woman campaigning to be president.

We are just the next in line for rights! It's not Illegal anymore to be gay, there's anti-discrimination laws for gays, and laws popping up for trans people as well. and one day, We're going to wake up, and be able to be openly LGBTQ, without worry of Discrimination. And though it's probably impossible to completely Eliminate it, it's going to be a lot better than what it is now.

-deep breath-

I can understand where your coming from and maybe it sounded like I was attacking you but I just can't understand why you want to support a bigoted, homophobic, transphobic and sexist organisation, do you think its ok that they say no girls? I suspect not so why do you still go? While people still support these organisations they wuill survive,slavery was abolished becuase people became sickend by it and didn't use slaves any more. Women got the vote and equal rights by protesting and in Britan DYING they didn't continue to support the so called 'womens role' they stoped doing what was expected and they got on the streets and they protested and when they were arrested and thrown in jail they went on hunger strike, they put their case forward in courts of law they did everything posible for them to obtain those riights they didn't just go along with what was expected or support sexist notions and unless your out as trans at scouts then your not fighting for trans rights your just supporting the idea that scots is a club for the boys.

It makes me so mad when people say they are against some sort of discrimination but will support these organisations when it suites them!

[Guest Donna Jean]

*Clap...clap...clap....*

Bravo Mr. A!

Ok, Sweetheart...I haven't posted to you before...I stay away from your posts...

But, this time you got me....

Your spunk, pluck, drive, determination...has caught my attention!

I have people ask me "Why would you want to be a woman? Men have many more perks in society!"

It's true...But, you have to do what you have to do...

You want to be a Boy Scout...they may be homophobic and transphobic, but how do things change....?

Rosa Parks refused to go to the back of the bus!

Women now fly combat missions over the middle east in F-18's....they don't have to stay home and clean the bathroom!

You can be a Boy Scout!

Keep your dream alive, Sweetheart! Don't give up until the very last avenue is taken!

I like your determination!

Here's a big 'ole {{{{HUGG}}}} from...

Donna Jean

[Guest Cal]

So, if your genitalia is "abnormal" they won't let you go to camp?

[Guest MrAwesome]

I'm not openly trans because I don't want to be seen as a "Girl that wants to grow a penis and become a boy" I just wanna be seen as a boy. I'm all about GLBT rights, but for a little while, I want to have a normal life. not much to ask. and If I have to I will protest and hunger strike for my rights! but I Don't feel a need to do it right now.

Donna, why would you stay away from MY posts? I'm too awesome.

[Guest Donna Jean]

Donna, why would you stay away from MY posts? I'm too awesome.

LOL!

That's why...LOL...HEE HEE!

Hey....You go to Pittsburgh and you live in PA...

I live about 60 miles from Pittsburgh......only over in Ohio.....

One day I'll come by and you can treat me to lunch......OK?

LOVE!

Donna Jean

[Guest _Michael]

This situation sucks dude. I know this is what you really want, but that is how the boyscouts works, and because they are private there is nothing you can do about it. You have an amazing amount of determination, but this is a situation outside of your immediate control - your doctor is not going to lie for you (and if they do they really shouldn't have a medical license), and the danger of getting outed on a camping trip is going to be substantial. The only thing you could probably get excused is your weight, I'm sure if you requested a skin capillary body fat percentage test (which is much more accurate than your BMI for folks with lots of muscle) they would take that over just a raw BMI score.

In any case, you should look at other organisations. There is that glbtq friendly camp you posted about, and I have heard good things about the adventure scouts (Who would be MUCH more likely to work with you as a trans individual than Boy Scouts ever would and they are all about camping and the like, and they stress themselves as a nondiscriminatory organization with no conservative affiliation. their website is: http://adventurescoutsusa.org/).

I know what you feel when you say that you just want to live as a normal guy for a while and not be seen as different and I have sympathy for that, but the simple fact is that you ARE trans. That does not make you any less of a man, but it is a simple fact you will always have to live with. This won't be the first time you'll deal with discrimination, and the art of picking your battles is a skill that comes with time. Keep your spirit though, its admirable. If it means that much to you, than by all means fight it, but there are other options available to you.

[Guest MrAwesome]

apparently if your missing a testicle maybe you can't? o.0

[Guest bronx]

Lewis-

I wanted to say somthing sooner to you about going to boy scout camp this summer, but had dicided to sit back and read what everone else had to say b4 I told you what I think of it. Not that i think it will matter to you but to try and open your eyes to what your reality might be if you do go.

First I think you going to camp is a safety issue. I know that your a guy and all but the truth of the matter is that yes you are trans and you also aren't on T yet. These other guys have already started puberty and the way they will act away from home is nothing like they wiould act had their parents been around. Being around guys all the time and have talked to alot of my male friends about boys adoulesent years well lets just say some things can get out of hand. Firat they will be taking off their shirts and showing off, you can't do that and questions will arise from that. When you shower you will really have to be careful if there is any horseplay involved. Guys young and old Play too much. Their are some serious things to think about and if you are outed trust me that will hurt more than anything. Kids can be cruel!

I'm not trying to discourage you or anything just look at the reality of your situation. I pass 100% no questions asked, but there are some things i can't do right now, such as change in front of other guys and take my shirt off. As an adult I can hide myself alittle more and know how to act in uneasy situations. But it aint fun, in can become stressfull and take the fun out of some things.

Your Safety must come b4 anything else and there are other options for you to look into. And as man talking to a young man set your emotions aside and think with logic.

I know you don't want to hear it but it is what it is Lewis,

Angel

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

Lewis, I know you probably think us older guys are being unreasonable but Angel (Michael too) is right on with what he's saying. I've been itching to say a lot of the same stuff but have held back until now.

I do want to encourage your fighting spirit. That's a good thing and you'll need it. Accepting less and accepting reality aren't the same thing, even though they might look the same at first glance.

What Angel is saying about young guys is absolutely right. Also, once they get the idea that 1) you are hiding something, and/or 2) that you DON'T want them to do something....it's on. I have a couple of male friends that are weird about having their shirts off in front of other people. Other guys give them a lot of hassle about it. Also, when showering, don't think that they won't rip open the curtain or something. Sure, they'd get in trouble for it...but that won't stop it from happening, and the damage would be done. Another thing, ever heard of being "pantsed" (however you spell that) or "drooped"? That can happen too. I'm not trying to scare you, but these are things to keep in mind.

We older guys have to worry about most of the same things as you. However, the thing about being an adult is that social norms protect you to some extent. If I'm in the locker room at my gym and am extra careful when I go shower, other men might wonder about it...but people aren't likely to mess with me. 9 times out of 10 they just wonder quietly and it ends there. Adolescents...not so much.

[Guest MrAwesome]

LOL! I wear a pair of briefs, compression shorts to hold my packer and spandex shorts, my binder pulled down over top. If I wear a tight belt, there's no way I'm getting exposed. And I didn't say I was gonna Shower. I go 3 days without showering on a regular basis and I can do a week! XD