NPR/PBS Poll: 59% of Americans think gender is determined at birth

[MaeBe]

In a recent poll the assessed current Republican policy stances, a majority of Americans think gender is fixed at birth. 

link to article:

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2023/12/13/npr-poll-abortion-immigration-israel-ukraine-biden-trump#gender

 

Snippet re: gender:

 

By a 59 percent-38 percent margin, respondents said gender is determined by sex at birth. 

That included almost 9 in 10 Republicans and two-thirds of independents, but just a third of Democrats. 

 

Two-thirds of Democrats instead said they believe someone can be a man or a woman even if that is different from the sex they were assigned at birth.

 

There was an age gap, with a majority (52 percent) of younger respondents, age 18-29, who said someone can be a different gender than the one assigned at birth. 

 

More than 6 in 10 people in older groups said gender is determined by sex at birth.

There was a gender gap here, as well, with two-thirds of men and only a slim majority of women saying gender is determined by sex at birth. There was an especially big split among men and women who live in suburbs and small cities, though, with 69 percent of men who live in those areas saying gender is determined at birth, but just 51 percent of women in those same areas agreed.

[Jani]

Ahhh, quite possibly it is!  But we don't ask babies about their gender, we look at their genitals.  Many of us know from an early age when we become "aware" of self.  With others it is buried deep inside the psyche until some point when the thoughts rush forward and demand to be reconned with.   

[Birdie]

I'm intersex with visible nonconformities. 

I of course don't remember, but I'm assuming the delivery doctor determined 'male' based solely off me having testes (I don't have the other thingy).

 

As far as I'm concerned it was an 'educated guess' that happened to be quite wrong!

'Puberty' really proved the doctor wrong when I grew wide hips and breasts. 

 

In my case it was difficult to visually determine, in other cases of intersex not so much but they are still intersex internally ( I am as well). 

 

I tend to believe that gender is hardwired into the brain, and ALL gender designations are 'educated guesses'. The doctor has no way of knowing the direction the child will take at puberty or later in life. 

[MaeBe]

3 minutes ago, Jani said:

But we don't ask babies about their gender, we look at their genitals.  Many of us know from an early age when we become "aware" of self.

That was my first thought when I saw the byline, however the answer that most chose was:

 

"Whether someone is a man or a woman is determined by the sex they were assigned at birth" vs.

"Someone can be a man or a woman even if that is different from the sex they were assigned at birth"

 

So the poll mostly susses out that 60% of Americans think that sex is gender and that they think that both can be identified by external sex characteristics at birth. So the little baby assigned a female at birth that is adamant is a boy as soon as they speak is right out, "doctor said she's a girl, she's a girl!".

 

I mean, it's not really surprising. However, it's good to see the younger genderation's 😉 ideals aren't as stale as their elder's.

[Ivy]

36 minutes ago, MaeBe said:

 

So the poll mostly susses out that 60% of Americans think that sex is gender

Most people don't understand they are different things.  It took me most of my life to realize they weren't.

[Ashley0616]

What a bunch of idiots running the country. Sex and gender aren't the same. WHO has documented studies to show proof of transgenders. They are so darn one sided they would tell themselves it's daytime at night. I wish they actually had their brain on straight and used it.

[KatieSC]

One of the common misperceptions by many of the folks who identify as conservative Republicans is that our transitioning is voluntary. I believe many of them have this view that we are cruising along from whatever we were at birth, and one day out of the blue, we say the heck with it, or there is someone out there that has convinced (or "groomed") us to suddenly become the opposite gender. I also believe a fair number of folks cannot differentiate us from those who are drag queens. 

 

I do believe that what makes us transgender (the term for now), is already rolling along by the time we are 16 weeks gestational age. Possibly even earlier than that. By then, our brain is formed. We will be who we will be. 

 

If we could get the public to understand that this is not a voluntary choice, we would likely see an end to this. In my mind, the worst thing is jamming anything down someone's throat. We have seen some overreach with various initiatives in the past 10 years. Some great stuff, and some not so great stuff. I think of the issue with the University of Pennsylvania swimmer for example. There had been a time when I believe they required five years of hormone use before competing. As far as I know, that had been dropped in favor of a shorter time period. The male thorax is typically bigger, and couple that with someone who had been training for at least a decade as a competitive male in swimming, they likely had a much better pulmonary reserve with enlarged lung capacity. This elevates lung capacity.

 

If the population at large could have some realization of what we go through, it would be helpful. I believe that once people see us for who we truly are, we will be fine amongst the general population. Until they understand that our true selves are buried, we will still have this fear of us, and a lot of misrepresentation. 

 

Another issue that should be considered is whether our current terminology just confuses the general population. As I said before, the term transition implies changing, but are we really changing? We are taking corrective measures. We are not necessarily changing anything other than some physically incongruent features, just as one would correct a cleft lip. The new ICD-11 code will be gender incongruence by the way. As for affirming procedures, perhaps that should be reviewed as well. Again, the issue of congruence appears. Perhaps we are having our hormonal balance adapted to reduce hormonal incongruence. The support for this is to look at how many of us seem to have such calm, euphoria, and the feeling that the missing piece has been added. The same can be said for surgical procedures. After my vaginoplasty, I did not feel like I had something new I had to adapt to, I felt as though I had what was missing. It felt normal. I think a great many of you have felt similar things.

 

One way or the other, we need to rethink how we win over the population at large. Our lives may depend on it.

[Timi]

I swear all this notion that gender is determined by sex at birth is beyond my comprehension. 

 

I kind of think I could actually live happily in a world that insists that I have "Male" on my birth certificate and driver's license, but let me decide, as a child, what clothes to wear and what toys to play with and what activities I could do and how I could express my emotions and thoughts through voice and gesture and what other children I could have as my friends. And that there would be nothing wrong or unusual about whatever I or any other child chose to do. 

 

And same going through this life. It's ridiculous! In what way does having an "M" on my driver's license forbid me from wearing a skirt, tights, and makeup if I want to? Unfortunately, I am forbidden unless I want to take a big step out of "normal" and alienate nearly everyone I know. Even a kilt is controversial except under very limited circumstances  ... on this side of the Atlantic Ocean, that is. What if my wrist naturally drops when expressing myself? That's seen as unnatural. 

 

How is it that anyone think that they get to tell anyone else what their "natural" behavior should be?

 

I saw the term "social dysphoria" in another thread today. I guess I suffer from that big time. 

 

I'd better stop. I'm ranting. I almost posted earlier elsewhere two pictures of me wearing two styles of loose fitting track pants. One I can wear around my family. One I cannot, based on the feedback from my wife when she saw the picture of it on Amazon. I got it anyway. It's a super cute pattern. I wear it when I'm home alone - because "men" aren't supposed to wear cute clothing. 

 

OK, I'm stopping for sure now LOL. If you made it this far, thank you for listening!

 

Gratefully, 

 

-Timie

[Timi]

I mean, because I am AMAB, this is “not OK”:

 

But this “is OK”:

 

 

Seriously? Why???

 

Why do I feel like my transition is going to be a looooong road LOL?

 

-Timi

[MaeBe]

19 minutes ago, Timi said:

I mean, because I am AMAB, this is “not OK”:

It is totally OK.

[Timi]

1 minute ago, MaeBe said:

It is totally OK.

Thanks @MaeBe! I think they're more than OK - I think they're totally awesome and I regret that I couldn't find the matching tracksuit jacket in my size ! But now we're venturing into the realm of taste and fashion. Which really is nothing to argue over. Which goes full circle. Why should someone's choice of gender be anything to argue over? The decision should be each person's pleasure. 

 

-Timi

[KatieSC]

Well, regarding AMAB, AFAB, and Ahab...The day it makes a difference in the medications or immunizations I am given, I will start letting someone know if I was AMAB, otherwise, I do not disclose it. I recently went to a pharmacy to have several immunizations and of course, they asked. I just simply checked off AFAB. Less for their brains to process. What they do not know, will not hurt me. Someday, if I ever have a prostate issue, maybe I will say something. 

 

Until then, with AMAB and AFAB, it is like Captain Ahab looking for his white whale

[MaeBe]

@Timi If what you’re wearing is “not OK”, I guess I’m just right out!

 

[Timi]

@MaeBeYou are awesomely gorgeous as always, and my hero! Thank you!!!

 

-Timi

[MaeBe]

2 minutes ago, Timi said:

@MaeBeYou are awesomely gorgeous as always, and my hero! Thank you!!!

 

-Timi

😊 Thank you!

 

As for hero...I don't know about that! Today it's home wear (just got it!), but I plan to wear this skirt out to dinner with my wife in a couple weeks on a date night. Have to see how it flows, the high cross slit requires some skill to keep things modest. 🤭

[Audrey]

"59% of Americans think gender is determined at birth"??

Really?

"59% of Americans do not know the difference between sex and gender"

There, I fixed it.

 

Of course it is fruitless to argue with the people who harbor such rigid and deterministic views, but being ignorant of this distinction is the root of the problem. Some simple education about biology vs. sociology would help with the ignorance, but anything like that would surely be challenged out of the school system.

 

This level of ignorance feels willful to some degree. But I refuse to be defined by any body parts I may or may not have!

 

Love,

~Audrey.

[emeraldmountain2]

As George Carlin said “think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” Seems pretty close to our 59%.

 

But, hey, attitudes change and let's hope people get a better attitude towards us, even if they are stupid. 😁