Non-transitioning Mormon Mts Ts

[Guest Pioneer]

Religion..politics..they are all controversial no matter where you go hehe. I just stay away as far as I can.

Welcome interalia. Enjoy your stay and its support. =)

[MaryEllen]

I have moved this topic from the Introductions forum to the Spirituality forum. This is hardly an introductory topic but rather a spiritual discussion. Please keep all discussions about religious theology here in the Spiritual forums otherwise they will not be approved.

MaryEllen

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora Interalia,

And thanks for answering my somewhat inquisitive questions-

If you have read through some of my posts you will find I too am a strong believer in ones ability to re-programme ones mind/brain, but this more so to do with helping others overcome anxiety and stress that comes from interacting with what they perceive as an uncaring bigoted society or an intolerant religious organisation…

However when it comes to the congenital condition that all ‘transsexual’ people are [according to much scientific evidence] born with, no amount of nurturing by family, friends, community or mental health professionals will alter ones core gender identity-that’s why many of us older trans-people who had thought that we had ‘conquered’ our dysphoria through pandering to societal norms, by getting married, having children and trying to lead a ‘normal’ life as our ‘birth sex’ find that is comes back even stronger the longer we try to resist it…

I really do wish you, your wife and church community all the best with your ongoing struggle against [what you perceive as] a foe and for whom many of us believe can not be defeated – I, like yourself won the odd battle-[for me it was with the help of tranquilisers] but the internal war raged on… I’m sure that you know deep in your heart that no matter what you do there will always be a big void in your life…Which no doubt will continue to plagued your married life-even with the support of your church elders, wife, community and friends, that part of your brain will continue to push for recognition and freedom…I guess “Only time will tell!” how truly successful you are…

BTW you would make a very interesting case study for some ‘un-bias’ gender therapist-by un-bias I mean one without any affiliation to a church or religious cult that may harbour some transphobic views…

Thanks again and good luck on your quest…

Metta Jendar

[Guest gentleman1]

First, I want to address Lightsider,

Lightsider, Please don't worry about me engaging in any "Mormon-bashing". I never was a fan of that and I won't start now. I actually am quite fond of Latter Day Saints as they are some of the kindest people I have ever met who actually live the tenets of their faith.....or try very, very hard to! Sometimes, though, I do tend to get "wrapped around the axle" when it comes to the "institutional" church of any kind though, so I'll try to be careful about this when I post.

Interalia,

I'm sorry I ranted at you yesterday. I did not mean to be uncharitable or unfair in my comments. I know you didn't mean to, but you did touch a very raw nerve within me.....no apology is needed NOR DUE.....this is my issue to work out, I am the one who apologizes. I can understand you de transitioning when you mention church culture as opposed to the church leadership. But then, does this not give everyone else the authority to determine who you are, rather than you? I actually considered de-transitioning for the exact same reason, (plus it would be a heck of alot easier to find a partner....), but then I would ultimately be the loser and would feel re banished to prison. So, I did not do it.

But when you post in your blog, you do sound "authoritative" on the issue of gender dysphoria and I fear that other transphobes.....who like it or not, usually have some kind of religious motive in their backgrounds, will try to recruit you to speak for them or will take and use your words anyway, in order to make the rest of us continue to look wrong for continuing with our transition. Can you see my point? THIS is what scares me. I do wish you well though and have no personal axe to grind with you. - Shawn

[Paula ult]

Interalia first let me say I'm sorry about your mother, i lost mine 4 years ago so i know how it is.

[end of the nice stuff, the following is a rant and personal attack, so live with it, i can]

With that being said what Bernii said i agree with 100%, you are no expert even by your own admittance, however your blog and everything you write on this forum and Susan's Place makes it sound as if you are. On this board and however many other boards there are people looking for answers and some are suicidal because of it, the only person that should be giving them those answers and advise is a gender therapist not YOU, I tried to stay away from this but i no longer can, when you get people so upset they want to leave i can't stand by and let that happen, it's great if you can live with GID but it's not a mental disease nor is it a disease that can be cured, and IF you do have it i guarantee it will never go away and you will either transition again or commit suicide.

If you are 'cured' as you say why bother being on these sites at all, unless it's at the urging of the church, you seem to know the right buttons to push to start flame wars, and if we are fighting amongst ourselves you think we will forget about passing laws to protect us from religious fanatics like you.

I strongly urge you to leave this site and never come back, you are not wanted here and i also urge the powers that be at Laura's to lock this topic and ban you from this site. Have a wonderful life. i will not look nor do i want a response from you.

End of rant and personal attack

I fully expect to be banned, but I'm a big girl

Paula

[Sally]

It is odd to me that the discussion here has gotten rather heated and then cooled down a bit while a very similar topic has been a quiet discussion on transgendered and the LDS.

I am not an expert on GID, LDS or life in general.

I am an expert in me and I know that some topics bother me and others don't, so I tend to avoid the topics that bother me.

I am, however a bit of a student of religions so I find this interesting on the religious level, I do not nor do I think that I will ever be able to understand transitioning and then reversing it.

But here is the good part - I don't have to understand it.

But I try very hard to be non-judgmental and very accepting so I support your right to tell about your religion and your life's story.

I do want to be sure that everyone knows that it is just that, your life's story and not an authoritative paper.

I certainly am not a fountain of knowledge on many subjects but I have been banned from any number of trivial pursuit games, I just want everyone to get their say without attacking each other - and this topic has two of the hot button items in it, religion and living with GID without transitioning.

Do remember friends, that transgendered takes in the whole scale and Interalia is just a few steps closer to being cisgender than most of us.

There is room for everyone at this Inn.

The flames seem to be dying down so let's keep it that way, OK?

Now, having said that - everybody remember to play nice!

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest (Lightsider)]

Please lock this thread and let this be. I spoke to interalia on the phone and I think there is a huge misunderstanding afoot here.

I would like to see a fresh start for interalia and end to the anger.

Thank you.

[Guest S. Chrissie]

GO Sally!

I concur! However authoritative he might sound, it is still his own experience, he should sound authoritative about his own experience and life, no?

Please don't just chase him away because he's on a different frequency. I still find it fascinating, as Jenda is. Perhaps his experience can be another open option for gender therapists to advice gender-gifted people in the future, no?

That said, I am again, as I said, fascinated by the de-transitioning, it seems like you are doing it to please the society or something? *shrugs*

Sherlyn

[Guest interalia]

Pioneer, thank you for your support.

Jendar, I'm grateful for your willingness to question me rather than make assumptions. I hope you are wrong about the result of my resisting my gender identity, but I have been warned before and have plenty of evidence of others who tried to resist it, but who in the end did not. I can only hope I will be the exception. Right now I am content - not because I maintain the status quo however. I'm anything BUT that (if you met me in person). I'm pretty much out to everyone, and don't hide away behind a male facade. I recognize I present as male, but it doesn't mean I need to act in any stereotypical ways. I am my own case study lol! I haven't met anyone else like me to date despite having met people who de-transitioned.

gentleman1, we are cool. I don't blame you for your feelings concerning religion. There has been a lot of harm done to people like us in its name. I only hope I can serve as a force for change with the way transpeople are perceived by religious cultures.

Paula ult, I am sorry for your feelings - I promise you though that they are unwarranted.

I do not know that I would ever even attempt to take the place of a qualified professional. In fact, I would strongly urge a person to seek therapy before ever looking for help from me.

I can promise you I represent no one other than myself here and do not wish to harm anyone in my being here. If you know me from Susan's then you know I'm cool headed and very understanding of others - even and especially those who disagree with me. You would also know that if I had a LDS-based agenda it probably would have come out by now considering the many months I've been there.

The only thing that really concerns me that you said, Paula, was the idea that I made someone want to leave this site. I find it truly, truly unfortunate that anyone would want to leave this site over any of my comments. If that person is reading what I am writing here, please know the following:

I sincerely hope for your peace and happiness. I do not know what I've done to offend you but I apologize. From everything I've seen, Laura's is an excellent community with an important purpose and goal which cannot be stated enough. The community here is warm and friendly generally, more than any other I've seen, and it is not worth losing this community over the views of one person. Know that I wish for nothing but the best for you and your life choices. I assume you struggle with some aspect of transsexualism and know how lonely it can feel. We might not make the same choices in life, but that really is ok, we can still support one another. I hope you stay with Laura's and are continued to be embraced by this excellent community.

Sally, thank you for playing peace maker - your efforts mean a lot to me. There is room here for us all I think. I know others may doubt my sincerity, but I really am here to receive and offer support. Heck the reason I FOUND Laura's Chat Room was because I was struggling with my GID while my mother was dying and wanted to hear from and talk to people who were like me. I found that on Laura's Chat and was very grateful. Since then I've found friendship and understanding from other members of the TG community - something that has greatly benefited my life.

[Sally]

That is much better, I am sorry that it got so tense for a little bit there but as I said this is a twofer - Two hot topics in one!

Now we can all just ask questions and no one has to get hurt.

I am interested in something a little harder to explain so I hope that you can understand it is about the mental aspects of reversing your transition, I know that in the physical department somethings can not be undone - they don't grow back.

In the mental side, I know how much conflict we feel and then we transition and feel like we are at peace, you descibed that and said that you had benn happy as a woman, now you have felt a call to return to being percieved as a man again - how do you put all of the feelings of being a woman back into that closet after they have been out?

I know how someone can put all thoughts of having been male out of their minds because it was an uncomfortable experience for a MTF but you described being female as a good time in your life, isn't it hard to keep from needing some of those feelings again?

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest interalia]

After thinking about it and talking to Lightsider, I agree with her. Locking this thread is probably a good idea. As many have said it has moved way past the introduction stage anyhow (which was the original point). I would love to address more questions, but perhaps I can address them in individual threads of their own or via PM. Thank you so much to all of the contributors.

[Guest (Lightsider)]

GO Sally!

I concur! However authoritative he might sound, it is still his own experience, he should sound authoritative about his own experience and life, no?

Please don't just chase him away because he's on a different frequency. I still find it fascinating, as Jenda is. Perhaps his experience can be another open option for gender therapists to advice gender-gifted people in the future, no?

That said, I am again, as I said, fascinated by the de-transitioning, it seems like you are doing it to please the society or something? *shrugs*

Sherlyn

For me...I did indeed de-transition when I was 30ish because I was afraid of some things. One being the reaction of my church and what society expected and demanded. Which included my family. Another was I was attracted to men but could not square away my feelings toward them and deep fear of men. I was not ready to resolve those feelings.

As i squared away my feelings I became more healthy and stronger. I have a feeling de-transition is common among those who have a ton of pressure on them to conform. I had to learn the following:

Marriage....Won't heal or cure GID

Church......Won't heal or cure GID

Dangerous jobs....won't heal or cure GID ...could make you dead. Many of us take dangerous professions thinking it will make us more manly.

Drugs....Won't heal or cure GID all that will do is make your life worse.

and Suicide...Won't heal or cure GID but make a temporary situation...very permanent.

And GID is not a mental disorder. But a physical issue that is corrected but matching the body to brain.

I had to walk away from a woman I loved. To be me.

This life we lead is full of profound and deep sacrifices. It is not for the weak of heart.

Interalia is on her/his own journey. I don't think interalia meant to come across as an authority.

Any way. I am tired...good night.

...Lightsider.

[Guest S. Chrissie]

As I said earlier

However authoritative he might sound, it is still his own experience, he should sound authoritative about his own experience and life, no?

It isn't wrong to sound authoritative, especially about his/her own life and experiences. And I don't find his/her posts authoritative till the point of them sounding like they were written by a researcher, authoritative in the sense that he/she knows his/her own experience and life, isn't that so? So then why want him/her to leave, when the experience might be of use, right, if it falls into the hands of transphobes, then his/her experience would spell our doom, but at the moment, it seem to be beneficial. At least we got to see it from another angle, his/her angle.

And what you said is the thing that I am wondering about.

Sherlyn

[Guest Martin]

Welcome to the board Interalia! I hope you find the support you're looking for.

I do have one question for you: what does the "Mts" in your topic header stand for?

[Guest interalia]

Welcome to the board Interalia! I hope you find the support you're looking for.

I do have one question for you: what does the "Mts" in your topic header stand for?

Typo. Should have been MTF. Thanks for the welcome.

[Guest Ryles_D]

I don't understand why you couldn't've been out about your past. Stealth is an option that's preferred by many- but it isn't the only option. If you felt like you were lying, then you could've told the truth and taken the leap to be out about it and see how that went instead of just detransitioning.

[Guest]

Please lock this thread and let this be. I spoke to interalia on the phone and I think there is a huge misunderstanding afoot here.

I would like to see a fresh start for interalia and end to the anger.

Thank you.

This thread has become heated. People here who never attack anyone are doing so. Part of the problem is that this thread mixes religion with doubts about treatment of transgenderism. Some saw this as a religious attack on transgender treatments as has happened before here. Others saw some replies as an attack on Mormonism. After talking to the parties involved it neither was intended. If i come out against standard treatments alone I'll get an arguement but it won't be flaming. If I mix that statement with religion it becomes another argument. Moving the thread here may have made it worse because the Mormon forum is a safe haven. Yet there are two arguments here not one. Seprating the two because of the original post is now impossible so we are closing the thread. Those who got angry were justified because they were just defending their community, transgenderism and their site. I don't think anyone meant to put Mormons down.

So let's Reset the clock And Interalia will get a fresh start if this mixed argument is avoided. It's really two seperate issues anyway.

Laura