MTF/FTM....How can this be??

[Charleigh Dakota]

Im not sure how others feel about this but I wish we had different acronyms for male to female and female to male because I do not and have not ever been a male so how can I be MTF? Im not changing who I am so Im not too keen on this term. Likewise, as I told my wife, I am not transitioning....though for the world to understand I use the term....but transition means to change and Im not changing so therefore I am not transitioning, as one can not change from something they already are to something they already are. Rather than transitioning, I consider myself to be going through puberty...but the right puberty this time. And no, the word transition does not apply here either as I am not transitioning from a teenage girl into a woman, as I am already a  grown woman....this is why I simply refer to myself as a female...a girl...or a woman....not a trans anything. Of course, there is nothing wrong with that whatsoever, I just dont feel like I am transitioning because I am not changing on the inside from what I have always been anyway.

[Jani]

28 minutes ago, Charlie Dakota said:

Likewise, as I told my wife, I am not transitioning....though for the world to understand I use the term.

I understand your point but try not to be disingenuine with your wife.   In her eyes you are physically changing.  Inside you are the same, I get it.  So am I.  We are letting a part of ourselves we have held back out for the world to see; a softer side maybe.  Possibly a new term will come about but transition is the best descriptor for now.  

 

Jani

[KathyLauren]

I hear you, Charlie.  The terms MTF and FTM grate on me a bit too, for the same reason.  The only advantage of using them is that everyone knows what you mean, even if the meaning is not literally true.  I prefer AMAB/AFAB.  Everyone in our community knows what it means, and it is accurate.  Unfortunately, outsiders are not familiar with it, so they don't understand it.

 

I still talk about my "transition", because I did have to change a lot of stuff.  I didn't change my gender identity, true, but I did have to change how that was recorded in official documents, how I presented it to the public, some physical aspects of my body, etc.  That definitely qualifies as a transition, even if my identity was not on the list of things to change.

[KatieSC]

I can understand the angst about labels. I stopped using them. A few months ago I went for my influenza and Covid 19 immunizations. They handed me a form and I got to thinking about these computerized records. I saw no relationship to what I was born as, regarding an immunization. Sex at birth: I checked off female, and the world did not end.

[Charleigh Dakota]

10 minutes ago, KatieSC said:

Sex at birth: I checked off female, and the world did not end.

That is an excellent decision...mind if I adopt it?

[KathyLauren]

34 minutes ago, KatieSC said:

Sex at birth: I checked off female, and the world did not end.

 

I have never actually seen this as a category on a form.  I routinely answer just "sex" as female. 

 

The way society is going, though, I can see "sex at birth" being asked in the future.  If that happens, I am now and have always been female.  I have the birth certificate to prove it.  It is computer-printed and is obviously a re-print but there is nothing to indicate why it was re-printed.  If it comes right down to it, I will destroy the original (hand-written with a fountain pen) and claim that I asked for a new one because I lost the original.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[KatieSC]

Great plan Kathy! They changed my BC too, and it does not say amended, so...

[Charleigh Dakota]

That will be great...not sure how South Carolina does that though so Im looking into it. I hope its pretty simple and does not say amended or something. If it does, I will just tell people it had a "clerical error"...which technically...I wouldnt be lying!! lol

[KatieSC]

22 minutes ago, Charlie Dakota said:

That will be great...not sure how South Carolina does that though so Im looking into it. I hope its pretty simple and does not say amended or something. If it does, I will just tell people it had a "clerical error"...which technically...I wouldnt be lying!! lol

Are you in SC or NC? If you are going for a legal name change in NC, Ivy is a really good resource. She has been through this process. In SC you have to go through the courts. Some lawyers know how to get the gender marker change and some do not, but it can be done, at least for now.

[Charleigh Dakota]

5 hours ago, KatieSC said:

Are you in SC or NC? If you are going for a legal name change in NC, Ivy is a really good resource. She has been through this process. In SC you have to go through the courts. Some lawyers know how to get the gender marker change and some do not, but it can be done, at least for now.

I live in NC but I was born in SC so I have to do some research and go through SC to get my birth certificate changed. Everything else goes through NC. I already updated my sex on my DL but my name...sadly...is still my deadname. Ugh

[Charleigh Dakota]

Yes...and like you said "For Now" is a big reason why I am talking to my lawyer about that as well next week so once NC approves my name change...I can hit SC hard for the name and maker correction on my birth certificate. I also have to find out about updating it on my children's NC birth certificates (if thats possible) and my Washington DC marriage license (and find out if my wife and I will still be legally married or if we have to "remarry" under my new name/sex. 

[KatieSC]

You may need a court order in SC to change the gender marker. I am not sure. Best to consult an attorney in SC. SC is not as friendly about this stuff as NC. 

[Charleigh Dakota]

14 minutes ago, KatieSC said:

You may need a court order in SC to change the gender marker. I am not sure. Best to consult an attorney in SC. SC is not as friendly about this stuff as NC. 

Sadly....but Im hoping to catch them at a good time!! Maybe send the Governor a Christmas card from some random NC citizen or something prior to....haha

[KatieSC]

Yeah, it is freaky in SC. They have a Republican supermajority. They are enacting as many anti-transgender acts as they can. 

[Charleigh Dakota]

5 minutes ago, KatieSC said:

Yeah, it is freaky in SC. They have a Republican supermajority. They are enacting as many anti-transgender acts as they can. 

Well...I have the rest of my life....and for now, at least, the only ID I need is my NCDL....I have a passport too but that is supposedly easy to update so even if my actual birth certificate never changes....it wont necessarily impact my life in a negative way.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

13 hours ago, KathyLauren said:

I prefer AMAB/AFAB.  Everyone in our community knows what it means, and it is accurate. 

 

That's the term I've been using.  Also, not everybody ends up 100% male or female.  I started out trying to do the cis female thing, and it didn't work.  I'll never fully pass or be 100% comfortable in my boy form, but I'm not non-binary either.  AFAB is more accurate for me than FtM. 

[Betty K]

Hi @Charlie Dakota, the terms MTF and FTM are regarded as outdated in many trans circles anyway, for exactly the reasons you cite, so I don't see any reason you should feel pressured to use them. Why not just call yourself one of the following:

 

- a trans woman

- a transfemme

- transfeminine

- a woman

 

?

[Betty K]

On 1/16/2024 at 4:40 AM, KathyLauren said:

I have never actually seen this as a category on a form.  I routinely answer just "sex" as female. 

 

Exactly. The problem doesn't arise once you get your birth certificate changed. But, for those who can't do so, I can see how all this could be a huge problem.

[KatieSC]

it is a very interesting question about the labeling via the sexual orientation/gender identity (SOGI) with medical records. The reality is that it is nothing more than data labeling that may be tangential to the treatment. Yes, one can anticipate problems, but seriously, does it need to be in a computer database, or should the healthcare provider take the time to get a good history and physical. This information can be obtained as it is relevant to the complaint.

 

There are also concerns that the information may not be all that relevant. A few months ago I went into a pharmacy to obtain an influenza vaccination. I was given a form that had a question as to my sex at birth. I happen to be transgender.  I am a nurse practitioner. I could not fathom what my sex at birth had to do with an influenza vaccination. The information may not be all that helpful other than to look at some commonalities that do not provide any useful information in the patient in front of you. 

 

Whether I have my birth sex listed or not, a healthcare provider is tasked with treating the here and now problems. In what way will it change that obligation? It does not. It is not like I was going to receive a special influenza vaccine designed solely for cisgender women. If I have chest pain, the EKG still needs to be interpreted, the symptoms correlated, and appropriate treatment rendered. We still treat whatever condition presents itself. 

 

From a preventative services view, the healthcare provider  should take the time to obtain a history, and explore what comes up. Does there need to be a specific data field attached to the chart? How will that change the note, physical assessment, and decision to treat? How will that data field influence your care of the patient anymore than your H&P? My feeling is that it does not.

 

Now for the nefarious evil purpose where the health information is mined for punishing those who are transgender. Now a state or federal government would never access a bunch of medical records to limit care, or assess criminal liability for someone just being transgender would they? I seem to recall that several attempts have been made to obtain the protected medical records of transgender children by a state government. Imagine what happens if we get to the point where everybody has SOGI information in their chart. Imagine a world where anti-transgender legislation is enacted that allows the government to terminate the health benefits of anybody who is transgender? It is hard enough dealing with a number of the insurance companies that have outdated and limited transgender healthcare coverage policies. By having that sex at birth field and the desired gender fields as data points, it makes it easier to find and harass transgender individuals.

 

Now some folks would argue that this could not happen. Really? A while back, the Attorneys General of Texas wanted to mine the DMV records for anybody who had their gender marker changed on their license. There is active proposed legislation is several states to recognize only female or male as the designations at birth, and these would never be changed on the birth certificates.

 

[Betty K]

You're right about all that @KatieSC. I guess in my case, since I don't pass and I don't realistically expect to pass, I don't object to doctors keeping records of my sex assigned at birth. But in everyday life outside of the doctor's office I am not aware that the question has ever come up. Who knows, maybe it has and I didn't notice. It's academic anyway, in my case. Everyone knows I'm AMAB. The point, for me, is that they never refer to me as male. That is all I can realistically ask.

 

 

[KatieSC]

The thing is Betty, people are people. Just treat each other with respect. It is not rocket science. We are finally ditching the insistence of race in the history. While there are some that worry about the statistics, you treat the here and now, not statistics. By and large, nobody really knows the pain that many of us have had to deal with in terms of being transgender. Yes, we have euphoric moments, and hopefully a child of the future will just grow up without ever having to doubt themselves, or feel the pain we go through. 

 

I just hope for the best for all of us. Some healthcare systems do well by us and some do not. Just like the country. We should expect that caring should be the root of our care.

[Betty K]

@KatieSC, I would actually be very hopeful about the future — my future, and trans folks’ futures in general — if it weren’t for the terrible news and influence coming from the northern hemisphere. People, for the most part, have treated me wonderfully since I socially transitioned. There is the occasional heckler, but these are so rare it’s astonishing when I think of the reaction I would have gotten as a teenager. Believe it or not, I’m proud of being trans, and most days I don’t even mind that I don’t pass. But I do fear having a target painted on me for the rest of my life should our politics follow yours and England’s.

[Birdie]

On 1/16/2024 at 12:04 AM, awkward-yet-sweet said:

 

That's the term I've been using.  Also, not everybody ends up 100% male or female.  I started out trying to do the cis female thing, and it didn't work.  I'll never fully pass or be 100% comfortable in my boy form, but I'm not non-binary either.  AFAB is more accurate for me than FtM. 

I prefer AMAB/intersex, that fits my physical attributes best. But if asked I 'identify' as female.

 

My medical care team use the AMAB/intersex, but frown upon me identifying as female. Just part of being in conservative Texas. 

 

Out and about amongst strangers I have no problems passing as female (large breasts help with that).

[Ivy]

On 1/15/2024 at 10:16 PM, KatieSC said:

Yeah, it is freaky in SC. They have a Republican supermajority. They are enacting as many anti-transgender acts as they can.

We have a Republican supermajority in NC now as well since that woman switched parties.  And they are starting that anti-trans stuff here now.  The (R) frontrunner for governor has called us demonic etc.  (he's some kind of preacher)

 

You can do a name change in NC without a lawyer (despite what they told me at first) but a lawyer makes it easier.  Of course you have to pay them.  I know someone that used a lawyer but complained that they still had to do all the "leg work" themself.  Gender marker on ID is easy here (so far) you just need a health pro to sign off on it.

The state has a website where you can download the forms and instructions.

I am lucky my BC was in NY so that was easy to change, although there was a bit of a wait for it.

I know someone in SC and they were having some problems with some of this stuff.

[Ivy]

I am referring to myself as MtF at the moment.  When I came out about 6 years ago, I didn't have a clue what I was doing, only that I had to.

Yeah, I was always a girl inside.  But for medical purposes I am still "male bodied" other than hormones.  Really, surgery wouldn't change that other than removing unwanted body parts.

My ID says "F".  Sometimes, well usually, I fill out forms as female.

I'm thinking of maybe changing my MtF to Trans-feminine.  I've seen "woman of transgender experience" somewhere, but that seems kinda awkward.  Simply "woman" would be nice, but the trans stuff is a thing.

IDK, maybe I'll change it.