Florida: "Misrepresenting" Gender On Drivers Licenses Is Fraud, Changes Now Banned

[Ivy]

https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/florida-misrepresenting-gender-on?utm_source=substack&publication_id=994764&post_id=141185062&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share&utm_campaign=email-share&triggerShare=true&isFreemail=true&r=k5hac

 

This one is scary.

 

"The letter, written by Deputy Executive Director Dave Kerner, states that gender will be interpreted as “biological sex.” Furthermore, the letter declares that any person “misrepresenting” their gender marker would be guilty of fraud, facing civil and criminal penalties, and revocation of licensure."

 

"It suggests that permitting transgender individuals to update their gender markers on their driver's licenses would “prevent the state from enforcing its laws.” These laws include bans on transgender individuals using the bathroom of their gender identity and laws targeting adult medical care."

 

"The move marks a significant escalation and seems to have been initiated unilaterally by the department"

 

" Florida would become the first state to prohibit driver's license changes under criminal penalty for transgender individuals."

 

"The ramifications of this rule could be far-reaching. All transgender individuals in the state with Florida driver's licenses not aligning with their “biological sex” might immediately be in possession of a fraudulent license. The state could seek to suspend or revoke the licenses of transgender individuals under this policy."

 

 

[Vidanjali]

The Florida LGBTQ+ Democratic Caucus released this statement (sent to members by email).

 

FLORIDA DEMOCRATS CONDEMN

DHSMV RULE CHANGES

TARGETING TRANS PEOPLE

 

Tallahassee, FL — Last night, a memo sent to county tax collectors by the Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles began circulating on X (formerly known as Twitter). The memo rescinds existing guidance directing HSMV personnel to issue new licenses matching gender identity, reinterprets existing statute to equate gender identity with biological sex, and threatens transgender Floridians with criminal and civil penalties. In response, the Florida Democratic Party has issued the following statement:

 

“Florida Republicans’ obsession with trans people has to stop,” said FDP Chair Nikki Fried. “Instead of addressing our raging property insurance crisis or out-of-control rent hikes, the GOP continues to pursue blatantly transphobic policies to serve their made-up culture wars. Erasing and criminalizing trans people is absolutely disgusting and can’t be allowed to stand.

 

“We’ve seen state agencies continually weaponized under Ron DeSantis, and this rule change at DHSMV serves the same purpose as the rest — allowing right-wing extremists to get the wildly unpopular policies they want without having to go on the record as voting for them.”

 

“The State of Florida should not sanction hate, violence, or cruelty,” said Nathan Bruemmer, President of the LGBTQ+ Democratic Caucus. “Transgender Floridians face significant consequences from policies preventing access to accurate identification documents. Being forced to live, work, and contribute in society without accurate, updated identification will have immediate impacts on a community already experiencing harassment, violence, and discrimination at higher rates. Our government agencies must remember that their responsibility is to serve Floridians — not the failed agenda of a power-hungry Governor who is out of touch with the people of Florida.”

[Carolyn Marie]

I'm certain that this rule change will be fought out in court.  It is an outrageous attempt to harass and criminalize being "trans in public."  If I went to Florida, rented a car and got a traffic citation, I guess I could be arrested and charged with fraud b/c my CA DL lists my gender as female.  I will avoid traveling to Florida, Texas, Ohio and other states that wish to criminalize my existence.

 

Carolyn Marie

[Ivy]

3 minutes ago, Carolyn Marie said:

I will avoid traveling to Florida, Texas, Ohio and other states that wish to criminalize my existence.

It's hard to do when you live here, have roots here, and family.  

I'm still in NC.  But it is rapidly becoming another Red State.

I admit, this stuff is triggering me.  It's kinda like you look up and everyone around you is a potential enemy.  And a month ago, things were okay for the most part.

These people act so self righteous at the same time they inflict needless cruelty.  It's hard not to be bitter.

[VickySGV]

54 minutes ago, Vidanjali said:

. “Instead of addressing our raging property insurance crisis or out-of-control rent hikes, the GOP continues to pursue blatantly transphobic policies to serve their made-up culture wars. Erasing and criminalizing trans people is absolutely disgusting and can’t be allowed to stand.

 

This to me is the crux of the matter.  There are some badly needed albeit unpopular appearing needs that the state is facing in terms of financial infrastructure that are going to be creating tragedy if not addressed.  The big problem is that these needs will involve the expenditure of money that is TAX revenue from business and personal income taxes and other types which are poison pills for the Conservatives.   Trans issues are flashy and good fodder for the ill educated and over manipulated voters who see the Flash and hear the Bang and are scared away from facing the facts that they will not be able to replace homes or other property, or even necessary transportation without some public works to prevent damage or more so to gain educated students who can see and understand life changes that need to be made.  We are great camouflage for stupidity and avarice. A far cry from the signers of the Declaration Of Independence who "pledge our Lives, Fortunes and Sacred Honor" to the good of their constituents.  

 

[awkward-yet-sweet]

I'd predict two things: 

 

First, the State of Florida will likely go through their records and repudiate all gender changes on existing licenses.  This would either be in the form of a change at one's next DMV visit, or a letter in the mail saying "come to the office and get your new revised license within XX days." 

 

Second (and more worrisome) is to expect difficulty at traffic stops.  We've already seen examples around the country where people are getting harassed for not conforming to expected gender-related appearance.  Cis women getting accused of being trans just for having short hair, etc...  Given the nature of police to abuse traffic stops, I wonder if there will be unauthorized searches and gropings etc to "prove" somebody is who they say they are on their license? 

[KayC]

10 hours ago, Vidanjali said:

Erasing and criminalizing trans people is absolutely disgusting and can’t be allowed to stand

 

I just read this on Erin too.  It’s just rediculous!  🤬 and I agree, disgusting.

 

I had the same thoughts as @awkward-yet-sweet.  And how do they enforce this?  I can see that they can shut down any new gender designations of current/new drivers license … but once your gender markers have been changed, how can they rescind and current licenser? And how are they going to know you’re Transgender if you get stopped?

Is the police officer going to do a full body cavity search?  I have seen plenty of cis-manly women, and feminine-men that they could be mis-gendered as Trans, I suppose.

Maybe the best thing that can happen is they do harass a cis-person who they believe is Trans.  The outcry!  That would probably put an end to it.  Or the courts … 

[awkward-yet-sweet]

1 hour ago, KayC said:

And how do they enforce this?  I can see that they can shut down any new gender designations of current/new drivers license … but once your gender markers have been changed, how can they rescind and current licenser? And how are they going to know you’re Transgender if you get stopped?

Is the police officer going to do a full body cavity search? 

 

Anything that has been filled out on paperwork can be tracked forever.  Well, if they are motivated enough to do it.  Pretty sure anybody who's had their gender changed on their license can be found quickly enough, and letters sent out with the usual "comply or else" wording.  The sticky part will be dealing with Federal stuff like Social Security.  What happens if the State documents list sex at birth and Federal documents show current information?  The issues for the citizen in that case go beyond suspended license and could be real PITA to resolve. 

 

And yeah, I can see an officer doing a cavity search.  There have been incidents where really abusive cops have literally done it roadside by force without a warrant.  Pretext is usually drugs, and they'll get a trained dog that will "alert" on a secret signal given by the officer.  Then plant something on you for good measure, which their body camera "malfunctions."  It'll really depend on what agency is involved, as some have zero tolerance for corruption and abuse, while others are like something you'd see on a bad TV show. 

 

I live in a deep red state, and things aren't always black-and-white.  I grew up in a law enforcement family, and my sister is a deputy sheriff.  Even where laws are unjust or officials are corrupt, a lot of your result in a traffic stop comes down to the people involved - you and that specific officer.  A respectful, calm, yet firm demeanor can go a long ways.  S/he will often make the decision to give you a ticket or a warning based on how you act.  If an officer wants to cite you for something during a traffic stop, roadside is not the appropriate venue to argue it.  Having a "bland" appearance helps.  Avoid having bumper stickers - no rainbows, HRC "equals" stickers, or "Vote for Biden" on your car.  Even my sister says that's a guarantee in our county to get a ticket rather than a warning. 

 

All that said, know your rights, know the law, and maybe even have printed copies of relevant statutes in your vehicle that relate to your personal documents and situation.  Make every effort to remain in compliance, at least on the surface.  Also helpful to know a good attorney, and maybe even get to know a couple of members of your local law enforcement.  It helps to have connections, because Lady Justice is only blindfolded on the statue in front of the courthouse. 

[KatieSC]

I read stuff like this, and I just so upset. When will the nonsense end. The GOP leadership has absolutely no clue as to why the original settlers came to America. They have no clue as to why there was a clause put in the constitution about separation of church and state. They clearly want to eradicate our existence. 

 

The advice about not having any bumper stickers on the car is great. Why give someone a target. All we can do is be the best we can be. Outlandish measures will only inflame tensions. They are looking for anything to tag us with. As for the licenses being changed, in a number of states, this was done under court order. I have to wonder about them being able to reverse a court order. That would seem to present some opportunities to launch legal appeals, and sue for our rights. I also wonder if they are searching our records for no proven reason, if this would trigger the unreasonable search and seizure protections in the constitution. They would have a hard time proving that being transgender if a public threat.

[Charlize]

What are they going to do with those of us from other states who might drive into their state.  I would wonder how interstate commerce law affects these new regulations.  Like the civil rights laws of the 60's, Federal laws supersede State laws.

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize

[KymmieL]

I wonder what would happen if I went to get a FL DL?  Is the state employee gonna want to look in my pants to verify the F on my license. that ain't gonna happen. Seems like a court case to me. Targeted harassment pure and simple

 

Kymmie

[Ivy]

1 hour ago, KymmieL said:

Targeted harassment pure and simple

Well, of course.  But then, isn't that the idea?

 

2 hours ago, KatieSC said:

The advice about not having any bumper stickers on the car is great. Why give someone a target.

I have one of those equality stickers and a small trans flag sticker on my car.  They are not prominent, but there.  But since I hardly pass anyway.

I did think hard before putting them on.  I decided I wouldn't be intimidated… yet.  I suppose they could be scraped off.

I don't hide who I am.  I'm not sure I could in this town anyway.

[Timi]

7 hours ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

 

...  Having a "bland" appearance helps.  Avoid having bumper stickers - no rainbows, HRC "equals" stickers, or "Vote for Biden" on your car.  Even my sister says that's a guarantee in our county to get a ticket rather than a warning. ..

I have a UC Santa Cruz Alumni license plate frame on the car that I drive cross country and felt very paranoid on my first couple of trips. That feeling has kind of eased now, but I still worry -- just appearing to advertise myself as a "coastal elite" in some place feels like putting a target on my back. Maybe I'm unreasonably paranoid? I know that I tend to be way too trusting in people's good nature. 

 

-Tim

[awkward-yet-sweet]

41 minutes ago, Timi said:

I have a UC Santa Cruz Alumni license plate frame on the car that I drive cross country and felt very paranoid on my first couple of trips. That feeling has kind of eased now, but I still worry -- just appearing to advertise myself as a "coastal elite" in some place feels like putting a target on my back. Maybe I'm unreasonably paranoid? I know that I tend to be way too trusting in people's good nature. 

 

-Tim

Where I live, the license plate frame might not be an issue, it's probably small enough to be difficult to read from a distance anyway. But an out of state license plate? That will get you a second look from just about any of the deputies. Combine that with a political sticker, getting pulled over is a guarantee. A good excuse will be something like "improper lane usage" which just turns into a he said / she said situation that is tough to disprove.  Being from out of state, the judge will rule on side of the cops 100% of the time.

[Ashley0616]

Florida needs a whole new leadership change! I think they are the worst state by far! I don't know how our fellow sisters and brothers stay there. 

[Ivy]

10 minutes ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

But an out of state license plate? That will get you a second look from just about any of the deputies.

Many many years ago I drove across the country a few times.  I was stopped frequently, car searched etc.  You kinda get so you expect it.    In Texas, the Ranger stopped me and threatened to "Take you out in a ditch and shoot you."  I hadn't done anything, and he did eventually let me go.  I was just driving through and looked a bit like a "hippie."

So in a way, I kinda feel like I've been through something similar in the past and survived it.  Main difference is this time I'm in my 70's rather than 20's.

But, once a freak, always a freak.

[Ashley0616]

I guess if I do get pulled over I'm recording the whole stop.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

1 hour ago, Ashley0616 said:

I guess if I do get pulled over I'm recording the whole stop.

Absolutely you should. I think more people are doing that, and that is cutting down on some of the abuse.

[Vidanjali]

2 hours ago, Ashley0616 said:

Florida needs a whole new leadership change! I think they are the worst state by far! I don't know how our fellow sisters and brothers stay there. 

 

Speaking not as a sister or brother, but as a nonbinary sibling who resides in Florida, it's not always so easy just to pick up and move out of the state you call home. In theory it may seem like a no-brainer to leave the state, but when it comes down to brass tacks, there many details to untangle not just in the leaving, but in the where to go as well.

[Vidanjali]

Here's an interesting angle presented in this article:

https://cleantechnica.com/2024/01/31/in-rush-to-scapegoat-transgender-people-florida-may-have-made-licenses-invalid-at-airports/

 

I'll summarize. States have until May 7, 2025 to be in compliance with the REAL ID Act.

 

According to the Department of Homeland Security's website, "The REAL ID Act, passed by Congress in 2005, enacted the 9/11 Commission’s recommendation that the Federal Government “set standards for the issuance of sources of identification, such as driver's licenses.” The Act established minimum security standards for license issuance and production and prohibits certain federal agencies from accepting for certain purposes driver’s licenses and identification cards from states not meeting the Act’s minimum standards."  (The Act is controversial for a variety of reasons. For example, if you're interested: https://www.aaihs.org/the-racist-origins-of-the-real-id-act/)

 

One criterion of REAL ID is to display gender on the ID. But gender is not defined by the Act. Interestingly, sex is nowhere mentioned in the Act. https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/real-id-act-text.pdf

 

In particular, Department of Homeland Security does not equate gender with sex. In fact, they specifically distinguish among biological sex (whatever that is supposed to mean; i.e. it is much more complex than is usually assumed); gender identity; gender expression; sexual orientation; or difference from social norms related to masculinity or femininity. (This list is from the DHS page on resources for gender-based violence. I have not linked it as it may be potentially triggering. If you want to see the page, it's easy to look up yourself.)

 

Therefore, it would seem that states who define gender as sex, and sex as whatever weird construction they come up with such as reproductive function, would be out of compliance with the REAL ID Act.

 

 

[KymmieL]

I wonder if Florida will confiscate DL of other states if they think they are the wrong gender? Compared to their license.

 

I would love to see that happen to me. You would see the biggest law suit in history. LOL.  to include the idiot gov and all his minions. Especially if I was on VA property. Which is federal Gov.

 

Kymmie

[Ashley0616]

7 minutes ago, KymmieL said:

I wonder if Florida will confiscate DL of other states if they think they are the wrong gender? Compared to their license.

 

I would love to see that happen to me. You would see the biggest law suit in history. LOL.  to include the idiot gov and all his minions. Especially if I was on VA property. Which is federal Gov.

 

Kymmie

I tried googling and it doesn't say anything about other state's DL. I'm sure they would hold you as long as possible and possibly search the car. My concern is they would be dirty and plant drugs or something else illegal in there. 

[hormonedifficientin2ways]

On 1/30/2024 at 1:46 PM, Ivy said:

 

"It suggests that permitting transgender individuals to update their gender markers on their driver's licenses would “prevent the state from enforcing its laws.” These laws include bans on transgender individuals using the bathroom of their gender identity and laws targeting adult medical care."

 Transphobic law makers will use the dumbest things as an excuse to oppress trans people. 

 

and a suspension or outright revocation of a drivers license? that can ruin people who rely on their car to get to work or straight up do their job. all on the basis that that person is trans. Its scary that Transphobic people are allowed to input their own harmful, personal ideals into the law. and we're the indoctrinating ones??

 

stay safe, everyone. and best of luck to our transgender brothers, sisters, and siblings down south. 

[Timi]

6 hours ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

Where I live, the license plate frame might not be an issue, it's probably small enough to be difficult to read from a distance anyway. But an out of state license plate? That will get you a second look from just about any of the deputies. Combine that with a political sticker, getting pulled over is a guarantee. A good excuse will be something like "improper lane usage" which just turns into a he said / she said situation that is tough to disprove.  Being from out of state, the judge will rule on side of the cops 100% of the time.

Thanks for the head's up! I got pulled over at a safety check on a turnpike in Oklahoma with my California plates. I was in a good humor because I saw a Tesla with Oklahoma plates and a bumper sticker that said, "I am NOT a liberal." Guess the driver wanted to make that clear LOL. 

 

Anyway, I got a pretty good questioning, I thought, and had to sit and wait in the front seat of the Trooper's cruiser for a while. I had a couple of burned out brake lights, and got a fixit ticket. I was wondering if he thought I was moving some California weed into the state or something. 

 

-Timi

[Ashley0616]

3 hours ago, Vidanjali said:

 

Speaking not as a sister or brother, but as a nonbinary sibling who resides in Florida, it's not always so easy just to pick up and move out of the state you call home. In theory it may seem like a no-brainer to leave the state, but when it comes down to brass tacks, there many details to untangle not just in the leaving, but in the where to go as well.

My apologies!