Becoming accepted as "one of the girls."

[ReturningMoon]

Hi everyone. Probably the biggest change I noticed since transitioning to female is that my relationships with other females has deepened.

At one time I was not accepted as one of them. There was this wall between me and other females. Since I grew my hair out, took hormones, and went to great measures they now accept me. Some of them do at least.

In my case I find it strange I had to go to such measures but I guess I should just be happy. In a way what I wanted is starting to come true. Even if it did take a very long time.

Has anyone else noticed this change in their MtF transition?

[Mmindy]

That's a wonderful update @ReturningMoon I look forward to following this and reading the answers to your question.

 

Hugs,

 

Mindy🌈🏳️‍⚧️🐛🦋

[VickySGV]

It very definitely happens during a male presentation to female presentation.  Women are taught from puberty on to be wary of males and what a male/female relationship is.  As we present more femininely the edginess of the interaction wears off and the suspicion of "male motives" lightens so that actual friendship and emotional sharing is eased. 

[Ashley0616]

I have always worn a wig and dressed out. I never went out like that in boy mode. I would be afraid that if I tried to talk to women and be accepted to them would never happen. I think you had to grow to great measurements is because majority of females give off an expectation. They accept people who are putting forth the effort. They probably thought you were a wierdo and wanting to get close to them to hurt them. 

[Timi]

Hi Returning Moon!

 

Thank you for sharing. I'm so happy for you that you are feeling accepted in feminine social circles! Yes, please don't ever forget that happy feeling. 

 

I've always felt much more naturally at home socializing with women than with men. Now that I'm "out" to many women ... hmmm ... I guess I just feel like they accept and embrace me as transfemme, but now that I think about it, not as really one of them. I'm OK with that. Today anyway. 

 

The other day, I was wearing the floral track pants and pink sweatshirt outfit I've posted elsewhere here. Not trying to pass; just wearing what made me feel happy and feminine. While I was walking around with a couple of lady friends, a woman driving by yelled out her window, "I like your pants!" Later, a female delivery drive called out, "I like your style!" It felt good! As I was talking about this the next day with another lady friend, it was explained to me that I had been "catcalled" and that it was a good thing and a rite of passage for women. 

 

Soooo ... hmmmm! I'll look at that as some kind of acceptance!

 

I think that if transphobia didn't exist, perhaps it wouldn't be necessary to go through "great measures" to truely feel accepted. 

 

This discussion makes me think about what @LittleRed wrote here, 

Especially the parts about her having transitioned only far enough to manage dysphoria, except for the much needed social transition. 

 

So I'm struggling with (at least LOL) two things. 1) What degree of transition do I need to manage my dysphoria? 2) How do I live an authentic life in public (and not feel self conscious and shame)?

 

I'm babbling again. Thank you for starting this thread. 

 

-Timi

 

[Ashley0616]

3 minutes ago, Timi said:

So I'm struggling with (at least LOL) two things. 1) What degree of transition do I need to manage my dysphoria? 2) How do I live an authentic life in public (and not feel self conscious and shame)?

 

I'm babbling again. Thank you for starting this thread. 

 

-Timi

 

I would think to a degree of confidence and slowly build up your confidence level. Some people are really brave and put themselves socially as soon as they accept them for them.

 

Again that would fall back with confidence and grace. It's easier said than done. Maybe go out to a restaurant as your true self or start even smaller than that. It takes time for some. No one is the same.

[Timi]

I should clarify that my lady friend was defining "catcalled" as being a woman-to-woman compliment between women that didn't know each other. She said that was a good thing and a rite of passage. I saw her get one yesterday when a woman walking by said, "I like your earrings!!!" That kind of thing. 

 

-Timi

 

PS thank you @Ashley0616 for the advice and encouragement!

[KayC]

@ReturningMoon I definitely recognize that I connect much better with women than men. 

 

I think that may have also been true even before transition, but I found it difficult to cross that male-female barrier.  Now I can be my true self, and if a woman accepts me as such, then I can definitely feel more closely connected to them.

 

 

 

 

[Betty K]

Totally. I am SO much more comfortable with women these days, and they are much more comfortable with me. I was not someone who hung out mostly with women in my past life; for me, my romantic and/or sexual interest in them (which I now see was, at least partly, a desire to prove my masculinity) often got in the way. Plus, having been mostly raised by my father, I knew far better how to talk to men, and had mostly male friendships. Strangely, since accepting that I am trans, I now find myself exclusively attracted to men, which has helped me feel more at ease around women. And yes, women accept me as one of them — at least, my friends do. And I have lots of girlfriends. What a gift this has been! Now if I could just find a boyfriend all the puzzle pieces would slot into place.

[Marieh]

But isn't that the proof we're essentially women? Being comfortable around other women and being accepted by other women.

Long before I accepted who I am. In fact I was in complete denial. I used to be 'one of the girls' although I didn't see it that way. I would gossip with the girls in the office,  sometimes be asked for advice about man problems. On Fridays the girls and I would go to lunch in a local pub. We'd meet socially. It never occurred to me that this was unusual although one day we were chatting when a male colleague joined us. The tone of conversation changed instantly. 

 

This went on in various jobs. It's only looking back that I realised what was going on. 

 

At the moment I have three regular women friends who I often meet for coffee or walks. One is my wife's childhood best friend. The others are former work colleagues. None of them know about me being trans. 

 

So it's instinctive for me and I  believe women have a sixth sense even if they're not always conscious of it. 

 

It's interesting to find it's a relatively common experience amongst us.

[Mirrabooka]

23 hours ago, Marieh said:

But isn't that the proof we're essentially women? Being comfortable around other women and being accepted by other women.

Yes.

 

About 15 years ago I was very active on a home builders forum and never cared that 90% of the members there were the female partners. That forum had a very active lounge section full of banter, chat, giggles etc. I fitted right in. One day a snooty b1atch said in a condescending manner that I was acting like one of the girls. It actually upset me because I thought I was just being me. Despite her, several of us had a physical meet-up a few months later and yes, I fitted right in.

 

23 hours ago, Marieh said:

At the moment I have three regular women friends who I often meet for coffee or walks. One is my wife's childhood best friend. The others are former work colleagues. None of them know about me being trans. 

 

So it's instinctive for me and I  believe women have a sixth sense even if they're not always conscious of it. 

 

It's interesting to find it's a relatively common experience amongst us.

I quit my male dominated, heavy industry, blue collar trade job about 6 months ago, but about a year before that, the apprentice rotation roster saw a female apprentice assigned to our workshop. She gravitated to me. She never knew about my gender issues and to this day I regret not opening up to her as a friend, but that would have been unfair - she was only 20 and still finding her own way. Whether it was her sixth sense or whether it was because I wasn't toxic, she was comfortable hanging with me, and I will treasure those times. ❤️

[Marieh]

Mysteriously I replied to this but it vanished. Maybe being new I'm being moderated, quite rightly.

 

In any case that's a consistent experience of mine. I was noted in one  job for my preference for women in my section. It wasn't  bias,women were better workers. Women are invariably better in most things in life apart from the obvious male specialties. I have two sons who are wonderful but they are specialists. 

 

Ok you can't  generalise but women are the basic human being. Men are men.

 

Love them both but I've always being  surrounded by  women. We, we are the people.

[Betty K]

 

On 2/16/2024 at 9:13 PM, Marieh said:

But isn't that the proof we're essentially women? Being comfortable around other women and being accepted by other women.

Well, there are cis men who prefer the company of women too, just as there are cis women who prefer the company of men. I think generalisations like this are dangerous if applied too seriously. It’s a gender stereotype that trans women will always prefer the company of women, and gender stereotypes have too often been used to deny trans people treatment in the past.

[Mmindy]

3 hours ago, Marieh said:

Mysteriously I replied to this but it vanished. Maybe being new I'm being moderated, quite rightly

I think you are past the moderating phase of your membership. I’ve had disappearing replies before, only to find out that I hit the wrong tab instead of the Submit Reply button. The next time I logged in it was saved for me somehow, then I would hit the Submit Reply and it would show up. This usually happened when I was using the mobile version instead of my laptop. From what I see you are a member in good standing. 
 

Best wishes, stay positive and motivated 

 

Mindy🌈🐛🏳️‍⚧️🦋

[awkward-yet-sweet]

I'm not a girl (though I'm AFAB), and I think that girls will be wary of a trans girl until a certain amount of transition has taken place.  And some will be more wary than others.  My two trans (MtF) friends hang out with me and my sister, and other females don't seem to mind them.  But my GF who is mostly lesbian and VERY much a cis girl is still wary of my friends.  So it seems to differ based on the group you're with. 

[Birdie]

Women have always been my favorite beings to 'hang around' with. The conversations are just more in-depth. I don't want to hear about how fast 'what's his name's' camaro did in the quarter mile, or who the top NFL drafts will be.

 

I want to hear about new recipes and other neighbourhood gossip.

 

Even in boy-mode I would gravitate to the kitchen at house parties to hang with the girls. They would soon realise I wasn't there to flirt and include me in conversation. 

 

Just yesterday at Torrid we were all talking about boob sweat, and how often we change our bras. Even what we use for heat rashes. 

Nicole helped me pick out a new blouse for my 'Zoom date' today.

 

It's just so much nicer being one of the girls.

[Birdie]

3 hours ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

I'm not a girl (though I'm AFAB), and I think that girls will be wary of a trans girl until a certain amount of transition has taken place.  And some will be more wary than others.  My two trans (MtF) friends hang out with me and my sister, and other females don't seem to mind them.  But my GF who is mostly lesbian and VERY much a cis girl is still wary of my friends.  So it seems to differ based on the group you're with. 

It's funny, after telling the girls at Torrid I'm intersex things got rather strange for awhile. Like they didn't know how to react.

We are the best of friends now, and closer than we were before. It's just human nature to be wary of the unknown I guess?

[Mirrabooka]

2 hours ago, Birdie said:

It's funny, after telling the girls at Torrid I'm intersex things got rather strange for awhile. Like they didn't know how to react.

We are the best of friends now, and closer than we were before. It's just human nature to be wary of the unknown I guess?

Education! Education! Education!!!

[Marieh]

22 hours ago, Betty K said:

 

Well, there are cis men who prefer the company of women too, just as there are cis women who prefer the company of men. I think generalisations like this are dangerous if applied too seriously. It’s a gender stereotype that trans women will always prefer the company of women, and gender stereotypes have too often been used to deny trans people treatment in the past.

Oh absolutely, my son definitely enjoys female company. He's definitely cis though. But he has been stereotyped as gay because of his fashion  sense and friendship with girls. He's finds it ridiculous because this is 2024 and we live in a liberal tolerant  society, Ireland  not Texas.

 

He doesn't know I'm trans but he often gets angry at the bigotry he sees  mostly online because in his school that hardly exists.  

 

So yes, generalisations are dangerous, but mostly where  bigotry  as it seems in certain states is the norm. 

[awkward-yet-sweet]

1 hour ago, Marieh said:

Oh absolutely, my son definitely enjoys female company. He's definitely cis though. But he has been stereotyped as gay because of his fashion  sense and friendship with girls. He's finds it ridiculous because this is 2024 and we live in a liberal tolerant  society, Ireland  not Texas.

 

So yes, generalisations are dangerous, but mostly where  bigotry  as it seems in certain states is the norm. 

 

Yeah, you don't necessarily have to be a girl to fit in with the girls.  And it also depends on which kind of girls you're fitting in with.  My GF has female friends, and they're basically feral.  Skater chicks, diesel girls, and not a single one of them "ladylike."  My trans friends are more stereotypically feminine than GF's cis friends.  My husband kind of fits in with everybody.  He does the guy stuff - big trucks, construction, rock band, and serving our local defense....but then he turns around and can talk emotions with me and hang out with his daughters.  He's not gay, but sometimes people wonder just because he's got really nice hair and dresses well.  

 

Stereotypes and straightjacket roles have definitely been on the way out for a while.  And that's good for trans folks, as it broadens the areas where we can fit in. 

[Birdie]

10 hours ago, Marieh said:

Ireland  not Texas.

I often regret not moving to Wales with my cousins when the chance arose. 

[Heather Shay]

@ReturningMoon I'm so happy for you. I have not felt part of the female population in acceptance but have hope that maybe some day.

[Timi]

On 2/17/2024 at 9:43 PM, awkward-yet-sweet said:

I'm not a girl (though I'm AFAB), and I think that girls will be wary of a trans girl until a certain amount of transition has taken place.  And some will be more wary than others.  My two trans (MtF) friends hang out with me and my sister, and other females don't seem to mind them.  But my GF who is mostly lesbian and VERY much a cis girl is still wary of my friends.  So it seems to differ based on the group you're with. 

That's so interesting!

 

One of the most supportive women in my ad hoc support group had a different take on it. In her view, cis women connect with trans women (and gay men) more readily than with other cis women because they don't see trans women as being their competition. 

[Ashley0616]

6 hours ago, Birdie said:

I often regret not moving to Wales with my cousins when the chance arose. 

Is there still a way that you can get out of Texas at least?

[awkward-yet-sweet]

8 minutes ago, umbrielle said:

The first thing to consider is striking "females" from your vocabulary. "Females" is preferred by Ferengi and Incels.

 

OMG the Ferengi 🤣🤣🤣  Now I'm going to crack up in conversation not being able to unsee that in my head....

 

I'm not really sure about it being misogynistic... I think that depends on the tone of the conversation.  Perhaps it is a bit less personal and a bit colder or more biological/scientific?  For me, using "female" is just an alternative to women/girls/ladies.  I'm AFAB, and n my girl form, I never ever referred to myself as a woman.  It just felt too adult, and I've never been great at adulting....it was like something I hadn't earned.  Some don't use "woman" because its just one small step towards "old woman" and that's not pleasant.  Some don't like to be "girls" because they prefer to feel more adult.  Some like to be "ladies."  Others like my GF absolutely reject that...she's ALL GIRL but will be the first to tell you she's definitely not a lady.  So girl/woman/lady aren't necessarily words that are less socially loaded than "females." 

 

I think like our pronouns, it all comes down to being polite to others and using the words they prefer, the same as we do for ourselves.