What If You Can’t Have Surgery???

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora,

Old topic just revived…Well this actually came to mind after reading SkeleTonya thread on "Gender Markers'....

For four years I could not afford to have surgery and had conditioned myself to a female life with that little bit extra between my legs-However, I was extremely lucky in that I was selected for government funded surgery-The NZ government at the time was funding 4 surgeries every two years 3 M2F and 1F2M…

I was lucky in a number of ways for example, the UK government had just past the Gender Recognition Bill which allows UK born transsexual people the right to legal recognition in they affirmed gender with or without surgery[so even if I didn’t have surgery I could still have had all my records changed to my affirmed gender]-I won’t go into details here -you can find info about the Gender Recognition Bill here http://www.grp.gov.uk/formsguidancefaq.htm…

Plus here in Aotearoa [NZ]there’s no gender marker on our photo drivers licence so for the four years prior to having surgery my drivers licence with my female name and photo appearance on was my id…When I finally did have surgery, I dropped into the local medical centre to have my medical records changed only to find my gender marker was already ‘female’ all my medical info at the clinic was with the ‘F’ gender marker and always had been …So as you can see for the most part prior to my surgery, I was already recognised as my psycho-social gender…

Just out of interest how many of you already have the funds or can acquire them reasonably easy to get surgery[for example a trans-lady I know could ‘afford to take a small loan out on her house to get her surgery-she paid it off quite easily something ridiculous like $80 a month]?

Is surgery the be all and end all for you? In other words could you cope in your affirmed gender without genital surgery?

I know it’s different for trans-guys-but for you guys, what if you couldn’t afford to have your breasts removed or the other things trans-guys have done-could you cope in society living as your affirmed gender???

BTW The vast majority of 'transsexual' people are pre or non op-the reasons for this range from medical conditions-expence of surgery- fear of surgery-and just not interested in having surgery... ALL ARE VALID REASONS FOR NOT HAVING SURGERY!

So the moral of this thread is Not all transsexual people can have or want to have surgery -This does not make them any less 'male or female'...

Metta Jendar

[Guest CharlieRose]

Yeah, I agree with that. If I was responding to the initial question, "What if you can't have surgery?" my answer would be "That's your business."

That's one of the weirder aspects of transsexuality. How people say things like you're not really a man/woman until you have surgery, it doesn't make any sense. If I have surgery it'll be because it makes me feel more male, not because I want to convince other people to treat me more like a man. One very good reason for that: My genitals are no one's business but mine and anyone I'm dating. I'm not going to show them off, they probably won't come up in conversation, and I've never met anyone who began conversations with, "Hi! Do you have a penis? I need to know whether to address you as he or she." If I'm wearing baggy pants it's not like anyone can tell, anyways!

It's a personal thing that really only affects you. People have a variety of reasons for keeping or not keeping their genitals, but it's really no concern of mine. If I'm deciding whether to call you she or he, I'll use things like their appearance, the clothes they're wearing, their name, and of course, how they refer to themselves. That's all anyone really needs short of an intimate relationship.

[Guest Zabrak]

I want all the surgeries myself, but I agree just because someone doesn't want/can't get a surgery means nothing. They are living their gender, thats what matters, and they should be treated the gender role they choose. No one has the right to call them less then that.

[Guest angie]

When the rug was yanked out for my having surery this year,I was devastated.

Then I met and befriended a nonop who is very happy living life as she is.

Having surgery would heal the congruence issue of what is between my legs not

matching what I know should be there.BUT...Life does not end for the lack there of.

I am learning to live life female,knowing that the only one(s)who will know are myself,

my friends and my future lovers.I wear any style of clothing,from tight jeans to short

shorts and mini's.Have been asked by postops if I am one also for my fearless wearing

of the clothes I do.When I tell them no it is all in my ability to be tucked continuosly,

they all have said I do a good job because I look so(normal)between my legs.

So,if I can have surgery great,I will be able to carry on with my life.If not,I know I am

a special kind of woman that is in great demand.For we preops and non ops are

special ladies indeed.Be proud of who you are,you are a woman living life honestly,

whether you have surgery or not.As it has been stated many times,only you will know

what is between your legs,it is nobody else's business.And they sure aren't going to make

you drop your undies to find out.

Happy living life preop,

Angelique

[Sally]

While I have thought from the beginning that I would want to have the surgery, economics do play a part in it.

At the present time it would seem to me an impossible task to pay for the surgery but would that end all hopes and ruin my life?

Of course not I will be a woman to every one that I meet, I will dress, look and act as I have always wanted to and the only people who could possibly know would be my doctors, you wonderful non judgemental people here and one man if I should ever be so lucky to find someone who would want to marry me (I am terribly old fashioned).

So if I can't - I will survive and I might add in a much better state of mind than I have for 57 years.

Love ya,

Sally

[Paula ult]

I plan on using my home equity line of credit to fund SRS, however because of my medical history, heart attack, stroke and diabetes i may not be a good candidate for surgery, well see when the time comes in a couple years. If i can't have SRS it's not going to be the end of the world cause i knew this going in from the start.

And as others have said nobody other you and those you tell will know what's between your legs.

Paula

[Guest N. Jane]

I was there a LONG time ago, when surgery just wasn't available. My solution was a gun and a bullet. It didn't work, fortunately, because surgery became available only months later.

[Sakura]

post op suicide or suicidal feelings range between 30%-50% i think the question is ,is srs right for you ? or are you really ready for it ? the hand full of post ops that are suicidal and that i have talked to usually are because 1 they realized they liked their male genitals a little bit more than they let on and find them selves well past the point of no return 2 they dont pass very well in their gender role of choice or pass as well as every one tells them they do and once they get srs realize they dont pass and still treated like they have their original parts (which i imagine would be very depressing)

also getting srs before you fully fit into your chosen gender role paints you into a number of diffrent corners one is relation ship wise this is the main seriouse disapointment i hear from the post ops that are having troubleand or suicidal they have the vagina but dont pass very well gentic men wont date them cause of the passing issue and admirers wont date them cause of the lack of genitaila

another thing is i notice that many only concentrate on the surgery with out realizing that surgery is only the bare minimum with out focusing on intagration and socialization and maybe if they need a bit of FFS to pull together the mask that you present to the world and seemed to have the idea that once they have the vagina that the world would automatically ajust and treat them accordingly which would be great if thats how the world worked but saddly most people are 90% visual they go by thier first interpritation of what they see before them even im guilty of it was working at a retail job and wasnt paying much attention to the person checking out and they asked me a question i replied somthing like " no i dont think so sir" then looked at them ........ she was obviously trans she got all up set thrust her id in my face with the female marker on it for a pack of smokes even though i didnt ask for id....*sigh*

srs for the ones that seek it i think should be the cherry ontop of a very complex sundae

Sakura

[Guest Charlene_Leona]

I'm one that has to have my surgery, if I don't my world falls apart. My state I live in will not change my gender marker on anything unless I do. So until I have that letter from a surgeon I can't change anything. I'm living in limbo now having had my orchiectomy a year ago this week and what I have spends it's time hiding out inside me. I hate that part of my anatomy with more than a passion. I hate to say it I will not be fully a woman until I come off the operating table and have my gender affirmed. If I can't I'm afraid of that self destructive part of me that does not care for self preservation. I've lived in pain all my life and I just can't handle that too much longer. I'm also afraid Larry will leave me, he and I have been together two years now ands he's been patient with the fact I've had set backs but I don't think he'll wait forever. I could be wrong but I'm afraid I'm not.

[Guest CharlieRose]

srs for the ones that seek it i think should be the cherry ontop of a very complex sundae

Lol. I might steal that from you; it's a very good way of putting it.

[Guest Leah1026]

post op suicide or suicidal feelings range between 30%-50%

While I agree with much of your post, this I don't agree with. It sounds too high to me. Where did you get this figure? Especially considering any reliable statistics involving us are so hard to come by. Of all the girls I transitioned (SRS) with I can only think of 1 that had regrets.

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora Sukara and others,

Slightly off topic but...

Sadly what you say is quite true, there are those who suffer from this condition[transsexualism] and think surgery will solve all their problems…

I guess I was one of the more unusual ones in that when I was first diagnosed by a psychiatrist, he asked me about having surgery, my answer was I hadn’t given it much thought, I was more concern about living as my true gender regardless of what was hanging between my legs…

And as I’ve mentioned untold times before, alignment surgery for me was just a bonus - not the be all and end all…

I was happy and content just by affirming my true identity on a social level and I’m still happy and content after aligning it surgically …

As you have mentioned, a lot has to do with the ‘blending into society factor’ …If a post transitioner is having trouble fitting in prior to having their genitals removed/altered their troubles aren’t going to magically disappear when their genitals do…I guess it all goes back to[what is for some] the dreaded ‘Real Life Experience’…It’s in place not to annoy the trans-person - it’s there for a more practical reason-to help one iron out any bumps on the ‘social membership’ road…

Whether one has surgery or not, surgery is not going to change how 'society' percieves them...Unless all members of society go about wear xray goggles

Metta Jendar

[Guest Martin]

I needed top surgery and testosterone. Without those two, I could not have lived a well-adjusted life in this culture. I could not have lived with my body and I could not have changed all the documentation I needed changed. In order for me to be able to return to Germany and have the correct documentation there, I needed at least a hysto in addition. I really wanted more bottom surgeries and am glad that I have them because they reduce my dysphoria, even though they don't take all of the dysphoria away. I think that if I avoided changing rooms, was extremely careful in terms of partners, and came to terms with never being comfortable with my genitalia and thus never comfortable with my naked body, I could have avoided bottom surgery. I just didn't want to make those sacrifices. But the top surgery and the testosterone I absolutely needed. They weren't cherries on top of sundaes; they were bread and water.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

I wasn't sure when I started transition then it hit me - of course I want to be complete! It's a major thing for me as I am already older and will be 64 at the earliest, so what do I get out of it? EVERYTHING! Well - why not. If I can afford it I will do it. But it's not a 'have to or die thing." Besides, my wife has promissed me that if I die before SRS she will have them cut off all those extras down there - so I won't be buried a male. HONEST - we have that agreement!

So one way or another - i guess - I will be buried as a woman...

Grin!

Elizabeth Bobbitt

[Guest NicolaiAE]

I want top surgery and T (that's a must!), bottom surgery isn't a must...I'm a little weary about the stuff I've heard of as a possible side effect. I could live with out top surgery but I think I would feel less of a man because of it. = / Besides where I live you have to have one surgery in order to be eligible for the gender change on the license. I guess that's a hint to move somewhere else? Don't get me wrong, I don't think someone is less of a man/woman if they decide not to have the SRS, that's their decision and I respect that.

-Nicolai

[Sakura]

the 30-50% varies deppending on what therapist i talk to sorta passing it on to me as a warning based on their past transgendered clients the number varies because your right not enough research is completed on us plus many of the ones i have spoken to in real life and in chat have many disapoinments about surgery and variouse things that go along with it

but i also imagine that just as many are 100% happy with it guess it all deppends on your exspectations and how well you have your head and you butt wired together before getting on that operating table

Sakura

PS that is copy write material charlie you owe me a quarter every time you say it joking

[Guest julia_d]

uk figures for the suicide rate are approx 35% pre and 4% post .. that's why it's state funded.. considered a life saving vital procedure for those that qualify... but how many finish themselves off without ever being diagnosed?

Australian gender marker change info https://www.passports.gov.au/Web/SexGenderApplicants.aspx

[Guest (Lightsider)]

the 30-50% varies deppending on what therapist i talk to sorta passing it on to me as a warning based on their past transgendered clients the number varies because your right not enough research is completed on us plus many of the ones i have spoken to in real life and in chat have many disapoinments about surgery and variouse things that go along with it

but i also imagine that just as many are 100% happy with it guess it all deppends on your exspectations and how well you have your head and you butt wired together before getting on that operating table

Sakura

PS that is copy write material charlie you owe me a quarter every time you say it joking

You know, I honestly went through some major suicidal ideation about a week after my Orchiectomy and it was not because I regretted it. My Hormones went off the scale and I ended up hospitalized. I wonder how many sisters who had SRS took their own life because of hormonal shifts taking place rather than true regret? Of course you can not map that because you can not ask the dead why they took their own lives. Trust me on this...i do not regret the Orchiectomy at all.

Word to the wise...or un-wise...reach happiness before SRS. SRS is not the key to happiness but is the icing on the cake.

[Guest angie]

Word to the wise...or un-wise...reach happiness before SRS. SRS is not the key to happiness but is the icing on the cake.

Yes indeed SRS/GRS should be the icing on our cake.I have a good friend who rushed into everything.Had the resources available to get everything in her hearts desire done to her.

Orchi,massive electrology,FFS and SRS in a matter of six months.She went from being married

to divorced,having a home to an apartment,her whole life changed in an instant.Now she is

wondering how to adjust.Saying if she had to do it over again,she would not have done it.

Take your time.Learn to live in role.Become comfortable as a woman interacting normally

with other women.That takes time to be able to maintain a conversation without dropping cues

the other ladies use when conversing.I am in my second year of RLE and am still developing,

growing stronger,more sure of myself,able to have a transaction without fear of being made.

If I am,so what.When my day arrives,I will be absolutely ready in everyway.Surgery will truly be

the icing on my cake.By then,all anyone will know is Angelique,with the person I was a long ago memory for myself,and those I love,with the majority of my acquaintances never having met(him).

Love and Peace,

Angelique

[Sakura]

your hormones going off the scale was that due to having to stop taking hrt ? i just had breast augmentation 2 months ago i had to be off spiro and estrodial for 2 weeks before and 2 weeks after it really almost drove me nuts and the first time in along time i really did contemplate suicide my therapist and my surgon said it was just post surgical blues which i was warned before hand that it commonly happens to every one not just transgendered people

but this was diffrent i have had the blues before but i would stair in the mirror and think about cutting the implants out not outta regret ..... i normally have pretty good self esteem and personal body image but inthose 4 weeks with the hrt wearing off and things starting to try and come back *looks down* and i started thinking every time i looked in the mirror that i looked like a gorilla with boobs but with in a week or 2 of being back on the hrt the depression lifted and my esteem came back x 2 and every thing is great i love the new additions to my body but it was a very rought sevral weeks

im wondering now out of the post ops that do commit suicide how much of it is post surgical depression coupled with the sudden shock of being with out hrt hmmmm

Sakura

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora,

I didn't have much of an 'emotional' problem stopping HRT before and after surgery..Apart from the odd outburst of tears for no particular reason...of which I just put down to a sense of 'relief'...Bearing in mind I 'meditate' on a regular bases, perhaps meditation helped balance out things....

I personally know of two post op trans-women who have stop HRT altogether-they say that they don't need it anymore...One has been post of for over twenty years and stop a few years after surgery...The other as been post op for four years[like myself] she stopped HRT last year...They are both aware of the dangers involved but to date have had no physical 'side effects'...I also know of one post op who stopped dilating shortly after her surgery,[she in a same sex relationship =lesbian] She found dilating too painful and time consuming-she's been post op for around six years...

I guess the moral of this post is "Different strokes for different folks!" whatever rocks your boat...

As for myself I still dilate and continue with a very low dose of HRT...

Metta Jendar

[Guest Leah1026]

im wondering now out of the post ops that do commit suicide how much of it is post surgical depression coupled with the sudden shock of being with out hrt hmmmm

I haven't been off HRT since the day I started (2-9-04 4pm). Both my surgeons (Dr O and Dr Bowers) allow you to stay on HRT right up to and through surgery.

[Guest N. Jane]

...They are both aware of the dangers involved but to date have had no physical 'side effects'...

I had been on HRT since my teens, had SRS at 24, and in my late 30's my doctor took me off HRT sighting the long term risks of estrogen. Around age 50 I asked for a referral to and endo because I am pretty much "the leading edge" of the life-long HRT group and wanted to be sure we were doing the right thing.

The endo was shocked that I had been off HRT for so many years and immediately ordered a bone scan and started me on the patch. She was right, I DO have bone density loss, well on my way to osteoporoses. I asked her how long I could/should stay on the patch and she said as long as I want. She said the risks of HRT are just that, risks, but NOT having estrogen WILL result in loss of bone density, it is a certainty.

[Guest angie]

your hormones going off the scale was that due to having to stop taking hrt ? i just had breast augmentation 2 months ago i had to be off spiro and estrodial for 2 weeks before and 2 weeks after it really almost drove me nuts and the first time in along time i really did contemplate suicide my therapist and my surgon said it was just post surgical blues which i was warned before hand that it commonly happens to every one not just transgendered people

but this was diffrent i have had the blues before but i would stair in the mirror and think about cutting the implants out not outta regret ..... i normally have pretty good self esteem and personal body image but inthose 4 weeks with the hrt wearing off and things starting to try and come back *looks down* and i started thinking every time i looked in the mirror that i looked like a gorilla with boobs but with in a week or 2 of being back on the hrt the depression lifted and my esteem came back x 2 and every thing is great i love the new additions to my body but it was a very rought sevral weeks

im wondering now out of the post ops that do commit suicide how much of it is post surgical depression coupled with the sudden shock of being with out hrt hmmmm

Sakura

My girlfriend decided that she would not stop her estrogen intake before surgery.

She cut her dose to half,took her last injection five days before her SRS/GRS.

We had been researching and decided that if gg's can have surgery,whose estrogen

never stops producing,why should one of us have to endure the trama of none in our

system after being so used to it being a normal part of our physical and emotional health.

She had no negative results,was given an injection by her surgeon five days following surgery.

And she has recovered very nicely.Not arguing the physicans orders,it just seemed ludicrous

to us to have to do without.

Angelique

P.S.

I bet this post doesn't make it

[Guest (Lightsider)]

your hormones going off the scale was that due to having to stop taking hrt ? i just had breast augmentation 2 months ago i had to be off spiro and estrodial for 2 weeks before and 2 weeks after it really almost drove me nuts and the first time in along time i really did contemplate suicide my therapist and my surgon said it was just post surgical blues which i was warned before hand that it commonly happens to every one not just transgendered people

but this was diffrent i have had the blues before but i would stair in the mirror and think about cutting the implants out not outta regret ..... i normally have pretty good self esteem and personal body image but inthose 4 weeks with the hrt wearing off and things starting to try and come back *looks down* and i started thinking every time i looked in the mirror that i looked like a gorilla with boobs but with in a week or 2 of being back on the hrt the depression lifted and my esteem came back x 2 and every thing is great i love the new additions to my body but it was a very rought sevral weeks

im wondering now out of the post ops that do commit suicide how much of it is post surgical depression coupled with the sudden shock of being with out hrt hmmmm

Sakura

Sorry it took me so long to answer this. I went off hrt for the surgery which some think is not needed but I did any way. Once I got the surgery I waited for the green light to start HRT again from my surgeon and endo. Which I started a week later. the following week(s) were marked by depression...hyper sensitivity...and so on. You could not say a word to me edge wise with out me losing it. I was definantly suicidal...and in denial about it.

I ended up being hospitalized. Well come to find out...because I no longer had testosterone production my estrogen was running un-opposed. My estrogen was 3 times the normal of a natal female. Where as before the surgery at the same dose my estrogen was normal.

So yeah...I wonder how many sisters went through what I did and took their own lives and we say .."oh it must have been regret".