General Non-binary Relationship Questions

[Guest ericc]

I just had a few general questions about relationships and Non-Binary Genders, Is there a lot of Non-Binaries that are attracted to other Non-Binaries or are most attracted more to Binaries? I personally am attracted to Masculine gendered Women myself, I'm Trigendered. And for other Non-Binaries, do you find dating difficult or finding dates hard? I certainly do.

Again, these are just general questions.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

I just had a few general questions about relationships and Non-Binary Genders, Is there a lot of Non-Binaries that are attracted to other Non-Binaries or are most attracted more to Binaries? I personally am attracted to Masculine gendered Women myself, I'm Trigendered. And for other Non-Binaries, do you find dating difficult or finding dates hard? I certainly do.

Again, these are just general questions.

WOW

Makes my head hurt. I can't answer. I don't know what I am anymore because I am definately identifying as transsexual, but I know I am female. But I don't look at people as gendered much - I just like people, romantically and otherwise. I would like to have gender appropriate sex as a female, but I don't have the sexual equipment yet. But I don't know what that does - I mean if that person was gay or straight, or bi, or androgynous or trisexed, or whatever.

I just want to know what biolgical female sex is like.

Any yet I am married to a woman and she is my life partner. I cannot cheat on that trust.

Maybe I don't comprehend sexuality anymore.

Lizzy

[Guest androgynous]

I'm really not into dating anymore since I discovered myself. Hm why. I think i'm not into it anymore, I can't project myself into a relationship at this moment. I pretty lost my attraction somehow, but I also don't care about it anymore, I'm happy alone.

[Guest Ryles_D]

I'm aromantic until I'm with the right person- so it really doesn't matter. But I'm overall attracted to non-binaries.

[Guest Mesingw]

I'm aromantic until I'm with the right person- so it really doesn't matter. But I'm overall attracted to non-binaries.

idk...even before I figured out what I was I was very picky when it came to dating. I like women...independent, and usually artistic (the last 3 girls ive dated have been artists). The issue I have though is there are not many of those at my current college...so for the time being, i remain single . Not that I need a girlfriend to be happy, but I think it would be nice.

[Guest Roux]

Even though I'm pansexual, I do tend to notice transpeople (of whatever type) slightly more than I do non-trans. I'm more comfortable expressing my androgyny in relationships with transpeople, which makes them more appealing to me. In a really general sense.

[Guest ericc]

Even though I'm pansexual, I do tend to notice transpeople (of whatever type) slightly more than I do non-trans. I'm more comfortable expressing my androgyny in relationships with transpeople, which makes them more appealing to me. In a really general sense.

Same here because I feel that someone who is also Trans would understand that part of me.

I remember that I've been confused for awhile even though I'm heterosexual, I'm attracted to Masculinity. (aka Female Masculinity) But it's hard to tell between Masculine Women and Non-Op Transmen because for both I always think of them as guys. I know that part of myself feels like I'm female / feminine but I want to express that part of myself with someone special, you know what I mean?

[Guest Ryles_D]

Even though I'm pansexual, I do tend to notice transpeople (of whatever type) slightly more than I do non-trans. I'm more comfortable expressing my androgyny in relationships with transpeople, which makes them more appealing to me. In a really general sense.

Same here. I generally end up taking the opposite of the other person- so when I date guys I try to take a female role, with girls I take the male role, and I'm not good at breaking that- it feels like it's what I'm supposed to do. I'm only really able to be myself when I date a non-binary (maybe transpeople in general, the only transperson I've ever been with was non-binary as well).

[Guest Elizabeth K]

No one is going to read this! It is tooooo long, but here goes...

I am transsexual and I have worked through some things and I have questions on others. In doing my research I decided the key word for all of us here at Laura's was 'gender dysphoric' which may or may not be accurate. Generally, I interpret it to mean those of us in the general population, for whatever reason, have a difficultly accepting a pure binary identification of our bodies. Is that a fair start? I know this statement is so general as to be almost unusuable, but it does seem acceptable to the non-gender dysphoria community.

Except, note I had to add the word 'binary' - the original definition seems to leave that out. I am possibly in a very lage majority group in this catagory, with only the crossdresser population exceeding me as a transsexual by about 250 times - yikes, that much? - according to my rough calculations.- 90,000 transexuals, 25 million cross dressers (one man or woman in sixteen - US population).

So on Laura's we don't see a proportionate amount of crossdressers. Many more men than women crossdress - but maybe not as much as stated - women crossdressing is usually accepted. Anyway this 'essay"(turned into one - sorry) is not about crossdressing. Although it would be good to say that many of the crossdressers here at Laura's are PROBABLY here, not to compare tips on dressing, but to investigate if their feelings sometimes run into other definitions. Male crossdressing is about showing a feminine side, and is somewhat erotic, but always sporatic. They usually identify 100% as 'heterosexual.'

So erasing CD from the formula - just for convenience - the remainding 'gender dysphori'c seem to be (1) transsexual (2) intersexed or androgynous. This isn't one hundred percent correct either, but it puts us in the discussion of the matter I want to address - GENDER- SEX- and MASCULINITY/FEMININITY

Okay - here goes: one birth out of 20,00 in the US has a questionable birth sex. 'Assigned sex at birth' is the term used. Originally, this idea was rather simple. Whatever was displayed between the legs at birth, in the opinion of the delivering person, that was the newborn's 'sex.' So sex is biological... well.... most of the time.

Intersexed people can display the wrong genitalia at birth, or the genitalia may not be developed, or the genitalia might be ambiguous , of there may be both female and male genitalia.

But because that all is usualyl rare, is it statistically unimportant? NO!

What about those of us misassigned our sex because of our geniltalia? Before 1980, the doctors made a recommendation based upon the easiest way to 'fix' the problem. Only recently is DNA testing etc. performed. Still, the child does not have a say in the matter - too young of course. Well, physicians and parents know best. Intersexed? Oh we fixed it.

But there are other definitions of intersexed.

Rather than name each one lets look at the largest groups, those who DON"T have the obvious 'birth defect' of ambiguous genitalia, those of us whose soul and mindset will very soon, as we become cognazant of the world, seem at odds with sex assigned at birth.

Gender?

Well a great definition - not exactly right - is a person's perception of themself, but based this is based upon binary considerations.

"I am a girl!'' or "I am a boy!" Well - it isn't really said as "I am female" or "I am male." not at first. Children identify as boy or girl - not even undrstanding really the sexual differences until later. So what do they see that makes then think 'girl' or boy?" They see how they are treated - how others of that 'gender' are treated. How they feel - are they being treated like they feel they identify?

And how much of 'gender identity' is taught? You ARE a 'girl' or you ARE a 'boy!" No choice in the matter - and later on 'look between your legs - thats what a girl has, or that's what a boy has.

END OF STORY - accept it or be shunned!

So gender - most say - okay? I am what I appear to be between my legs. I like how I am treated because of what is between my legs. I feel comfortable being what I was assigned at birth.

Most people.

Some don't. Some suffer greatly because it JUST ISN"T TRUE!

I am that way, transsexual - but I am bianary oriented. HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?

I mean - please explain it to me? I never wanted to be male, I alwys knew I was a girl that had a boy body. It got more and more male, my body did, as I matured. I never liked it, my body, and I knew I was supposed to be female.

WHOA - stop!

Be 'FEMALE" when did that happen? Somewhere along the line - about age 20 - I stopped thinking of myself as a girl and started thinking of myself as a female in a male body. NOT a boy AND a girl - NOT MALE and FEMALE - only FEMALE. Sex? Is female a sexual term? Well sort of - is used as 'female sexed.' But female to me was really a blend - I was a girl in soul and mind but in a boys body - but suddenly I KNEW I was also a female? What is the difference?

(note hereon, I abandon the other direction - those who are male in a female body - no harm intended, it just gets repetative - and its just a mirror image).

Female meant a woman - a girl and a woman, one half of the world, the side I was meant to be, but I got placed wrong. Okay... Female? A gender term or a sex term? Explain it to me someone?

I suppose it is gender term, when the word is used alone, not 'female sex' but just 'female.'

Gender - what are you? I am female. It is too complicated to say young girl, girl, teenage girl, young woman, etc. We say to the question, Gender? Well I am female.

So thatt seems okay... BUT here I am - transsexual and a female, but my body? male? well yes and no. I have has a male body most of my life (fixing that) - but I was never a man.

OOOPS - another set of terms, woman and man. Now it seems we are looking a society's definitions. A woman is female (Is she? really? - usually but not always, let's think a moment on gender dysphoria, let's think a while on Intersex). And a Man - yes - what is a man?

Society's interpretation - a feminine woman, a masculine man, 'girly-girl,' tomboy, sissy, moma's boy, manly-man, he-man, Super-mom, a beauty! (female) a handsome dude (male)... on and on..

And what about queer, gay, lesbian, bisexual, asexual, and so on? Sexual orientations - again societies definitions.

And society has it all geared up - figured out - defined (incorrectly of course) - now come their ideas of life style choices: drag queen, female impersonator, butch lesbian, lipstick lesbian, ... transexual.

We transsexual are gay, and chose our lifestyle? Don't you know?

WRONG.

And the Intersexed? Same error. Androgynous, transgenderist, gender-queer?

That's what I need to educated on. I want to know. These subgroups - are they more common or less tha us binary transsexuals?

And why do I have a sexual preference for women, if I am one myself? (answer has to do with the fact I really hate most men). And why do I know that after SRS I want a man? (answer probably has to do with my changes in brain chemisrty on HRT - happens about 50% of the time).

And do we as transsexuals relate to androgyony and all those who are non-binary? YES, but why?

I suppose the answer there lies with our self awareness and how we feel relates to the world. I really do feel like, using definitions, I am a bi-sexual, MTF transsexual. I would partner with anyone I fell in love with. Sexal orientation has no meaning to me. I have NO IDEA where I am going... and I just want to be happy.

I really would like comments on all this ranting and raving...

I want to be able to tell others EVERYTHING about we who are gender dysphoric... and the more I learn the more questions I have.

Elizabeth

[Guest Donna Jean]

_wow!

Donna Jean

[Guest Elizabeth K]

_wow!

Donna Jean

WHAT!

Lizzy

[Guest mia 1]

That's right the more you learn the more questions we all have...I'm "going with the flow'...forty years of woodstock has taught me that.....Mia

[Guest ericc]

This video really captured my eye, I can really relate to this.

[Guest Roux]

I generally end up taking the opposite of the other person- so when I date guys I try to take a female role, with girls I take the male role, and I'm not good at breaking that- it feels like it's what I'm supposed to do.

This, exactly. Not a good feeling. I'll admit that I do still pushed in one direction (male) in my current relationship, but for once I know that it's my own unfounded belief of what she expects from me. I'm working on getting over that, and doing pretty well. Still, though, I've always wanted to experience a relationship with a gender-fluid person; it seems like it'd be the most comfortable thing for me.

No one is going to read this!

No one? Hey now.

Okay - here goes: one birth out of 20,00 in the US has a questionable birth sex.

Oops, typo. Is that 20,000 or 2,000?

I can't give you any fantastic feedback on your post, but I will say that it was an interesting and worthwhile read. And also:

I have NO IDEA where I am going... and I just want to be happy.

Amen. =)

@ericc: Good find!

[Guest androgynous]

Today, I think:

- Assigning someone a gender is impossible.

- I think we really need to drop any gender conception or boxes that someone might fit into.

- If we hate boxes, why do we put ourselves in a box? like, if I were to be MTF and identify as female, but hate boxes, I just created a contradiction in terms.

[Guest Ryles_D]

Oops, typo. Is that 20,000 or 2,000?

To my knowledge, one in 2,000 is correct. I've seen intersexed as being ffairly more common- not greatly- but since there are intersexed where you physically appear "normal" but chromosomally there's a problem, so you might never know, I think the rate of all intersexed is a bit more common than the rate of children with undefined genitalia.

- I think we really need to drop any gender conception or boxes that someone might fit into.

- If we hate boxes, why do we put ourselves in a box? like, if I were to be MTF and identify as female, but hate boxes, I just created a contradiction in terms.

I don't hate boxes. I hate people assuming that there's a limited number of boxes- but that doesn't mean the boxes don't exist. The majority do fit into male or female boxes. Some people don't, but fit into androgyne/bigender/neutrois/etc boxes. Some people don't fit into any of these- but do fit into the much, much larger box of "Genderqueer", etc. And some people don't have a gender identity at all- and fit into a completely different box. And peoplr probably have other boxes.

There's nothing wrong iwth boxes- if there's a box that fits you, you shouldn't feel inclined to ignore the boxes when you're comfortable with it. There is something wrong with assuming everyone must sit into these boxes, and there can never be more boxes and no one is allowed to make their own box.

[Guest Rain]

That's what I do not understand, if 1 in 2,000 can be born intersexed physically internally or externally, then why couldn't something have happened with the brain and the body. It would seem logical this could be a real possibility, someone being born in the wrong body or an androgynous person come into existence. For instance, if you look at the human body in a very scientific way then one would know that brain is essentially what makes us "us." All that it takes for something to effect the child forming in the womb is something pretty minuscule which could cause defect(referring to being transgender). I just would have thought that by now it would be a real physical medical condition. There are all kinds of birth defects, why is this any different. Is what I am saying wrong. Who knows if I am making sense.

[Guest androgynous]

For instance, if you look at the human body in a very scientific way then one would know that brain is essentially what makes us "us."

Problem is, that is certainly false. Here is why.;

This picture below is the scan of some guy that is missing 80% of his brain, yet he functions normally like anyone else. So what does that say for the brain? not much eh? If you can miss 80% of your brain while baffling a dozen renowned scientists, is it still valid to assume that the brain makes us? Hardly. Never believed it, never will believe it, and here is one bit of truth. We create our reality, and the brain is only a small part of it.

If not, explain this picture below:

A man with an unusually tiny brain managed to live an entirely normal life despite his condition, caused by a fluid buildup in his skull, French researchers reported on Thursday. Scans of the 44-year-old man's brain showed that a huge fluid-filled chamber called a ventricle took up most of the room in his skull, leaving little more than a thin sheet of actual brain tissue.

[Guest Ryles_D]

That's what I do not understand, if 1 in 2,000 can be born intersexed physically internally or externally, then why couldn't something have happened with the brain and the body. It would seem logical this could be a real possibility, someone being born in the wrong body or an androgynous person come into existence. For instance, if you look at the human body in a very scientific way then one would know that brain is essentially what makes us "us." All that it takes for something to effect the child forming in the womb is something pretty minuscule which could cause defect(referring to being transgender). I just would have thought that by now it would be a real physical medical condition. There are all kinds of birth defects, why is this any different. Is what I am saying wrong. Who knows if I am making sense.

Some of the 1/2000 are virtually indistinguishable from the rest of the populace, there's a version where you're female, infertile but otherwise completely functionally female and no one would ever know unless you get a DNA test. A lot of people who were born intersexed were surgically altered as infants to be "normal", too, so unless it comes up around puberty they might not ever know. So it's a combination of being fairly uncommon, not all of them being at all noticeable, and a lack of publicity in general leading to this-

I think the majority is unaware that intersexed people exist, or misunderstand what it is so they definitely won't be able to put that together. Way too many people also don't really understand what being transgendered really is.

[Guest CharlieRose]

I'm kind of both binary and non-binary... And I find myself most attracted to feminine/androgynous men. Not like, really gay/flamboyant guys, but like Japanese Bishounen, (ie. http://foro.cemzoo.com/picture.php?albumid...;pictureid=7981 I think that's what they're called,) or glam rockers like Bowie. (avatar) Otherwise masculine guys who dress and look like girls. I just saw Ponyo and was quite... fascinated by the dad in it, who had long hair, wore bright clothing, earrings and bright blue eyeshadow.

I don't know if the fact that that's what I'm kind of shooting for, gender-wise, has something to do with it. Maybe attraction wrapped up in jealousy? I dunno. I think of myself as a gay man mostly. (It's just the 10% of the other times that mess me up) I haven't met any... "real" guys who look like that, but uh, yeah, that's what appeals to me most. I'd be fine with a completely cisgender guy, but it would be awesome if he had a touch of that kind of unique color to him.

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

WOW

Makes my head hurt. I can't answer. I don't know what I am anymore because I am definately identifying as transsexual, but I know I am female. But I don't look at people as gendered much - I just like people, romantically and otherwise. I would like to have gender appropriate sex as a female, but I don't have the sexual equipment yet. But I don't know what that does - I mean if that person was gay or straight, or bi, or androgynous or trisexed, or whatever.

I just want to know what biolgical female sex is like.

Any yet I am married to a woman and she is my life partner. I cannot cheat on that trust.

Maybe I don't comprehend sexuality anymore.

Lizzy

Lizzy as I have said before, does it really matter to anyone besides myself and the person I may be with at the time whether (at that time) I prefer men, women, both (maybe... um not PG13) or neither. Gender can be exceptionally fluid expecially when the rest of the body, mind and soul are in the middle of the insanity of a second puberty.

Labels are for those who wish to describe the indescribable and/or classify the unclassifiable; there really is no such person as someone who is all male or all female. The binary is for chromasomal, birth defined sex (and there are some conditions which make a mockery out of this); gender exists on a continuum with male and female on the ends and everyone somewhere in the middle. Like others have said, and some much better than I, search your heart and soul figure out what it is that you want to do and then find a way to do it.

Your best first step would be to find a good gender counselor in your area and talk to them. They have the knowlege and training to guide you down the often rocky road to figuring out where on the spectrum you fit and how to maximize the benefit you get from that knowlege.

[Guest DisDwarf]

This picture below is the scan of some guy that is missing 80% of his brain, yet he functions normally like anyone else. So what does that say for the brain? not much eh? If you can miss 80% of your brain while baffling a dozen renowned scientists, is it still valid to assume that the brain makes us? Hardly. Never believed it, never will believe it, and here is one bit of truth. We create our reality, and the brain is only a small part of it.

I think the various parts of the mind are pretty distributed along the brain tissues. So, if a particular tissue is damaged, another tissue can do the same kind of work. It could be a biological way to avoid complications from brain injuries, which could have been fairly common among proto-humans while fighting with large animals etc or falling to the ground (ah, the disadvantages of walking on two legs!)... what do u think?