My Wife Hates Daphene

[Guest daphene]

Well, the weekend is over and its Monday. Another day for a lot of thinking to occur. My wife told me this weekend that she hated Daphene and that Daphene was destroying our marriage. She said I was going to have to choose Daphene or her. I told her i wanted both. I love being Daphene and I love being with my wife. Unfortunitly, my wife has given me a choice that I must make and I am not ready to make that choice. I am hoping that time will be on my side to help her become more accepting of Daphene. I have only been out to my wife for a couple of months. Do you good people have any suggestions on how i can help my wife accept Daphene and still have our marriage?

[Sally]

Oh my Daphene,

I am going to tell you that I sympathize with your situation but I am not going to offer any advice because I apparently did not handle it very well as I am divorced now.

I hope that someone will come a long who has a successful marriage and still cross dresses to give you better advice than I can.

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest ChloëC]

Daphene,

I'm going to ask some questions that you don't have to answer me or here, just think about them for yourself.

Are you giving her what she feels she needs in your marriage? Do you know what that is? Have you both discussed it? If you are (or think you are), and she is still dissatisified, there may be other issues going on.

Does she know what you are looking for in your marriage? Have you both discussed that? Is there some place that you both can live with?

Are you wanting a public presence of Daphene? Are you wanting Daphene as part of your intimate relationship with your spouse? Can you live with Daphene being in private?

From what I've seen here, the crossdressers (and many where the spouse is aware) do their dressing in private or away from home. Can you live with that? Can your spouse live with that?

These questions are coming from the direction of Sally's suggestion of looking to crossdressers for assistance.

If your desires are deeper, and you are seriously considering some form of transition, then your problems are a lot deeper then I (or many crossdressers) can deal with.

I hope there's a chance it can work, Daphene, but be understand that the worst is possible.

Good luck,

Hugs,

Chloë

[Guest Pammy]

I will give you the advice that worked for me: have her talk to a therapist. My wife wasn't at all accepting and was considering divorce until she talked to a friendly therapist. Now she understands the whys and wherefores and has decided that she loves me more than life itself, as she always told me. And we're together and she is beginning to enjoy having a girlfriend, too!

I hope it works out for you!

Love

Pamela

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Good advice! BUT - ummmmmm

I have been at this for almost 16 months - trying to reconcile what I am to my wife. She says 'Elizabeth" is mean to her!

I might be sometimes - but I FINALLY caught on to what was going on!

When I am good to her - I am NOT "Elizabeth." At least to her.

So don't worry about the name so much - that takes a long time to work out.

Get her to accept YOU!

Just some advice from a tired ole partner to a betrayed and upset wife!

Lizzy

[Carolyn Marie]

Daphene, every spouse, and every situation is different. No one piece of advice is going to be completely

relevant to your situation.

That said, Chloe's questions were excellent. What your wife will accept depends greatly on whether you

are a cross dresser or plan to move towards transition. Cross dressing is usually, not always but usually,

easier for the spouse to accept. That is because it can remain private, between the two of you, and never

needs to be disclosed to anyone else. You can be discreet with your cross dressing, never doing it in her

presence.

Transition comes with many, many, additional considerations, and is much more difficult for spouses to accept.

If that is what you intend to do, and she knows that, then you need to 1) give her time and space to absorb

this information and come to terms with it, and 2) educate her. The latter can be done by inviting her to join

here and talk to other spouses in the Partners and S.O. Forum.

My wife was very upset at first, but over the course of several weeks and a few conversations, she came to

an understanding and has been remarkably supportive. There is no guarantee that her support will continue

through my transition, but I am hopeful. Sometimes all it takes is time, understanding, and continued

affirmation that you will always be the loving person she knows.

I wish you luck. You are welcome to PM me if you have other questions. I'll answer as best I can.

Carolyn Marie

[Guest ~Brenda~]

Well Daphene,

The reality is that it is not a choice. You cannot help being the way you are. Hon, I tried for years to suppress my gender identity, and you know what.... KABOOM!!! She came out anyway with a vengance!!

You can't hide yourself from yourself nor to anyone else either ultimately.

I have a couple of links for you that I would like your wife to look at to see that being transgendered is not just something does to anger their spouse.

http://wpath.org/Documents2/socv6.pdf

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TS.html

I really cannot advise you on how to handle your marriage. I'm divorced, so there you go.

Love

Brenda

[Guest i is Sam :-)]

The thing is, you are daphene right? the other image is the false one. But obviously we feel freeer to act a certain way or respond differently or whatever in our alter or correct egos.

What it comes down to I think is that we are at least 80% ourselves all the time I think, and that doesn't change, our different images embody all of these aspect of us and then a few more from one far extreme or the other. Maybe we go a little overboard in over compensation to begin with, act out too far in one direction because we're so sick of living the other, but eventually we'd settle down into something comfortable.

I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, except that your wife needs to understand, that daphene IS you, with maybe just a few extremes more visible and a few that were likely to be things we pretended in order ot not raise suspicions, nuked.

You need to try and get her to recognise that you are still the same person, but that if there are any specific behaviours that she doesn't like, or parts of your previous self that she misses, that she should raise those with you, and maybe you can work out a compromise while still being yourself.

Of course if she can't, if she really is just in love with your mask, then I can't see how that's ever going to get better. Maybe you could convince her to let daphene take her on a date, maybe she'll fall in love with you all over again.

I don't think our wives / partners would issue these ultimatums if they truly understood. They'd either find a way to work it out or if they knew they couldn't then they'd just leave. Instead they stay in denial believing that they can some how change you, and make you be happy with that. But if you could really change people like that, we'd all marry and spend the rest of our lives with the first person we dated.

[Guest Jennifer T]

I have no advice, daphene. I'm kinda in the same boat. My wife says I have a choice to make. So I am just standing still at the moment. She's still here. And I am afraid to move.

[Guest sarah f]

Well it appears there are a few of us that the wives don't like our true identities. I am in the same boat as my wife said if I make the change she will leave me. I am just taking it slow and hopping that she will change her mind when she realizes that it is not a choice but something that I need to do. Good Luck with your wife.

Love,

Sarah F

[Guest daphene]

I hate that there are others of us going thru the same thing I am going thru, but it is nice to know I am not the only one in this situation. I guess misery loves company. Thank you all for the good thoughts and wishes. This gives me some ideas to think about so we can get this worked out. I am not sure yet how far I want to go yet, I guess I will know when I reach that point and I certainly am not there yet. I know I am truely more than a crossdresser but I dont think I want to have SRS, maybe hormones sometime. I really just want to be me and that is a combination of female and male. I think my gender is fluid meaning somedays i feel female and some male. Mostly female though. So who knows how far I will need to go, I am just ready to begin the journey, but I am at a standstill for now until we come to some understanding in our marriage. again, thanks for all of the good advice and wishes. I will keep you posted.

[Guest ChloëC]

Daphene,

I really understand (well as best I can) where you're at. I'm guessing if I were in my 20's I'd be seriously considering looking into full transition. In my 40's I wondered how far I could go without SRS (and I thought about hormones). Now, I don't know. I'm where I'm at, and sometimes it's all right, sometimes I wonder if it could have been different.

Lots of tough choices we have to make, and having someone there makes it easier...and harder, both at the same time.

Hope it works out.

Hugs

Chloë

ps I love it when I'm typing to have several thoughts on how I want to put some idea - let's see, will 'understand' work", maybe 'be aware'. Oh, I've got it, I'll just combine the two 'be understand'. Uh, sure, works every time!!!

[Guest Natalie Foster]

The sad thing is, 9 out of 10 wives and significant others will leave the transsexual either before or during transition. You have to understand that a lot of women are not bi-sexuals or lesbians and expecting them to become that because of love is pretty selfish to say the least. Sometimes, love simply isn't enough. However, you should not simply not become your true identity because of some other person. If she is not willing to stick by you, eventualy you will find someone that will. I know its hard and very difficult, but there is only one you and you only have one life. Do you want to live that out a lie to make someone else secure?

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

Some SO's will never come to accept their transitioning/dressing spouses for those of us who are lucky enough to have one who is willing to work on accepting it somethings might help:

• give her all the mental and physical space you can, if this means sleeping in the spare room for a while the be willing to do so
  
• make the subject of your transition/dressing taboo for you to bring up but be ready to answer questions
  
• if needs be, and it sounds like it might, be ready to give up intimacy for a time. She may have a problem being intimate with the male you and trying to figure out how to deal with the female you
  
• this is not going to be solved in a week or a month, it has taken my wife since june of '09 to be 98% accepting of me
  
• if you are seeing a therapist, offer to let her sit in on a session or so, just so she knows what is going on
  
• maybe gently suggest that she get some help with this problem, makes sure you let her know that she is getting help because of what you are, not because of anything she is doing or had done.
  
• this is probably the hardest, when you and she talk please dont to the typical male thing of trying to fix all of her problems. When women talk nine times out of ten they simply vent problems, they dont want those problems fixed. Let her tell you about her issues, what problems she is having, what problems she had that day. Learn how to be a listener, not just a fixer.
  
• another hard thing will be to show her that Daphene is no threat to her. She may be seeing Daphene as another woman who is trying to take her man. It will take some time for her to get over this fight reaction and learn that it is not the case. Sorry but there is little you can do to assist in this process.
  

[Guest rachael1]

It is a hard decision you will have to make and you will need to consider what the ramifications of each choice would be. Can you give up being Daphene, and could you then find happiness or would you start to resent your wife and your marriage fail anyway?

I couldn't give up being Rachael which makes my choice simple though heartbreaking but that is me.

My wife and I have almost broken up at least three times but have managed to stay together somehow. One thing I know for sure is that if I ever transition she will leave me. I am fighting not to transition but the irony is that I have started laser treatments for facial hair removal and have epilated all my body hair for two years. She was adamantly against both but has grudglingly accepted it so time does help with the process of acceptance and you just have to find a way to convince her to stay with you a bit longer and find some accomodation and boundaries you are both happy with. These boundaries will probably extend over time so be gracious and give her a bit of latitude and she may accept this.

She is giving you this ultimatum as a last ditch effort to get the man that she married back - but if you are like me and most of the girls and guys here you cannot put the genie back into the bottle.

Good luck with your negotiations

Rachael

[Guest Kellylee]

Daphene,

Let's look at it a second from her perspective. She thinks she married a man who would be a good husband and father. You have presented yourself to her as a "normal" male in one way or another for

25 to 30 years. She has trusted that you are the person you have presented yourself as all this time, the person she wanted to spend the rest of her life with. Now out of the blue, you let her know that all of that was a lie. You actually aren't that person, the person she dated, the person she married, the person who fathered her children. You lied to her for all these years knowingly. You have been a fraud, you are a fraud. This is what she is afraid of. Now out of the blue, you tell her you want to be Daphene. She is afraid of losing her husband. She is afraid of the emotional and psychological impacts on her children. Is any of her children going to be a crossdresser? She is afraid of losing the life she has built for 25 years. She is afraid of being ostracised by all of her friends and acquaintences, who can be cruel in their gossip. Shenis afraid of losing her social network, who is also emotional support. She may be afraid of losing her home, her life, her husband as she knows it. It is confusing to her. How could you do this to her? so she is thinking, after all you've shared and built together. She feels betrayed.

So while you are just trying to out who you really are, you are tearing her world apart. So as you go one small step at a time, let ler know you love her. Make her feel safe somehow, in that even though you have hidden this from her, it was only out of your love and fear of losing her and the kids, you didn't let her know. Show her your support for her. So many of us have the overshelming desire to transition hit us so hard out of no where, that we get caught up in our own needs and desires and forget what we are pyschologically doing to those who have built their lives around us.

So are you going public or remaining private? This will impact her life. Will it cost you your job or income producing capacity? This would impact your lives. What will your children think? Can you keep it from them and/or their friends? Remember the 6 degrees of seperation.. you are only 6 people away from anyone else in the world, usually 2 in your town, 3 if it a bigger city. Will you have to seperate and divorce, and move out of state to protect them.

Yes I have pondered this for years. I am ts. I am 50. I have kids, middle, high and college school ages. I have seen councelors. My wife doesn't know more than I used to crossdress and she thinks it is in remission, but doesn't totally trust me. At one point I thought it would be better if I just faked my death, and then moved on with a new life. This would at least allow for some closure on their part, but that is not the way to handle it, not to mention, you could end up in prison, which after or during transition, would put you in a very vunerable position. So my advice, talk to her and assess her fears. Emotional, psychological, financial, social, and family. Unfortunately for you and me, and despite what others may say here, it is not just your life. This is not an easy answer. We are not in an easily solvable situation without causing some amount of carnage within our wake. The solution may be delicate and complicated. I am still searching for my own solution.

With understand and compassion,

Kellylee

[Guest Donna Jean]

Hello, Kellylee!

Welcome to the Playground, Honey.

Good letter.......

I'm 60 and 1 year HRT married 30 years...It's tough. Hard...not simple...

I totally understand where you are coming from....

About the living a lie part, though.....I've never looked it that way myself....

You see, growing up in the 50's and 60's ...there was no information available on the things that were happening in my head..So, I attributed it all to a perversion or worse yet, mental illness...So, I didn't find out until relatively recently just what was going on with me.....

So, I have always called it "Living a confusion" as I was not deliberately lying about what I had...I didn't even know...

But, mere semantics.......it doesn't make it any easier on the wife...

When this happens to us (Our bell rings) there are no good answers. We muddle through, try to maintain and deal with what is happening to us and how it affects those around us...the military calls it "Colateral damage"....

And life becomes a huge pile of catch 22's....

Damned if you do...damned if you don't....

And we can't stay what we are and remain miserable....and it's hell to go forward and realize ourselves....

Some thoughts....

Donna Jean

[Guest daphene]

Kellylee, you are correct in what you say. This does effect everyone envolved. No one knows but my wife. I only came out to her about 3 months ago so I know it takes time. My last child leaves to go off to college this summer and our home is for sale now. Our plans were to go traveling in our RV when our daughter goes off to colege. I was going to work where ever we were at the time. All of this is still the plan, except now my wife says she may go or may not, depends on how much Daphene is present. So with all this said, my intentions were not to tell anyone else because we were going across the country away from all we know so we looked at this as an adventure. I think as time passes she will get more accepting of Daphene and we will go on this adventure together. that is my hope anyway. Daphene is not going away. She can not. I do not want her to. I do not yet know how far i will take Daphene and i think that is what my wife fears the most. Time will tell whether she is willing to gamble and relocate with me. I think she will when the time comes. for now, i am just laying low and not talking too much about it with her. I think she will talk when she is ready. Thanks to all of you for your posts. Gives me plenty to think about while we wait. I will keep you posted on what happens.

[Guest Anna_Banana]

The sad thing is, 9 out of 10 wives and significant others will leave the transsexual either before or during transition. You have to understand that a lot of women are not bi-sexuals or lesbians and expecting them to become that because of love is pretty selfish to say the least. Sometimes, love simply isn't enough. However, you should not simply not become your true identity because of some other person. If she is not willing to stick by you, eventualy you will find someone that will. I know its hard and very difficult, but there is only one you and you only have one life. Do you want to live that out a lie to make someone else secure?

Yep, that's right, I'm going to reply to someone who was banned.

...And you don't think it's selfish for Daphene's wife to make her choose between being happy or saving their marriage? If it's selfish for Daphene to want to be Daphene, then it's selfish for wife to want Daphene to be a man.

.Anna

[Guest daphene]

anna, i like your thinking this subject. I think my wife is being selfish and i probably am also being selfish. i have offered many compromises to her and nothing will do but the termination of daphene, which will NOT happen. Thanks for your encouragement.

[Guest ChloëC]

Here's just another little story.

As you know my car was totalled and I got back a little more than expected from my insurance company (small wonders). I got on Cars.com and searched out used cars by price, year, mileage, and then by transmission. I found about 10 cars that met my criteria, got the CarFax on 5 of them and went test driving (in a 50 mile radius from my home at dealerships). The third car, as I walked in the door, they told me price was dropped by $1000 before I said anything except pointing it out. That moved it from #7 to #2 (the original listed internet price was at the very top end, and similar ones were listed in the lower range). At the end of the day I had driven 6 cars, 3 were gone, and the other was a clunker. Came back and offered $xxx cash, total, tax, licence, out the door. They asked for a little more. In minutes we had agreed to a price, I picked it up the next day, they have called following up, sent thank you notes, and a sampler of bread products from Great Harvest.

See? When both sides are willing to negotiate, compromise, and talk straight, amazing things happen. I could have been a jerk and demanded less (a little), and probably got it, but if I go back for a new car, they'll work on giving me a deal. And I'll recommend them to others. The car has worked fine for the past three weeks including drives of 200 miles or so (and it has a limited warranty).

If a marriage is going to work, it has to include compromises from both sides. When that doesn't come, too often it means that there are more serious issues going on and the marriage itself may be in trouble, with GID issues being only a part of it.

Hugs

Chloë

[Guest Kellylee]

Cloe,

Your analogy is a little off sweetie. You were looking to buy a car, they were looking to sell. Daphene is looking to change how she looks and acts, and her wife is wanting to keep the original product she acquired 30 years ago. The wife was happy with the original product (I assume). But one party is unilatterally wanting to change the situation seeking only one outcome, the wife accepting the changes. Now bear with me as I am not wanting to sat Daphene is wrong, it is more like she has little choice. I am just wanting her (and others going through the same thing) to take a deeper look into her partner's point of view and consider what she may be going through or thinking.

Going back to your car analogy. it is more like you bought the car 25 years ago, it has been reliable, you have very fond memories from it, it is your baby, and suddenly there is a mandatory recall saying you must change the color to blah brown and must change it from an automatic to a manual transmission (which you don't know how to drive ( for the sake of my analogy)), and instead of something comfortable like the broken-in leather seats, stiff upright safety seats with a 5 point harness will be installed. If you're not going to like the car with the proposed changes, you may be tempted to just say "it's not what I wanted, it's not what I bought, it won't be the same, so hell, take it and I'll just get a new one." But your currency in getting a new car isn't what it used to be ( she's older, less energetic, maybe heavier from having 3 kids, she doesn't turn heads or get offers like she used to, (after all most of her compitition is now younger) and has alot of baggage now). So what is available to replace the car she used to love, is not as good as it was when she got her beloved car, that is being changed. She just wants what she bought as it is, without the changes.

Actually your analogy sounds more like, I lost my car the way I liked it, so you just let it go and got a new one.... I don't think this is what Daphene wants... In negotiations, you need a willing buyer and seller to make a market transaction. Daphene's wife isn't a willing buyer, she is being coercerced, because all she already has invested financially and emotionally into Daphene. Again, none of this is fair to anyof us, because we are in and have been in an imposible situation. We can be ourselves because of society. To be accepted we try to be "normal" to be loved and accepted, only to have our true selves scream at us, "Let me be me!" And with all the information on the internet, it looks like it may be obtainable, where before, we thought we didn't have the choice to transition. BUt now, we have our baggage, other people in our lives, who may or maynot be accepting. No one said life was fair, but at least we aren't being eaten by sabertooth tigers, anylonger. Isn't fair.

[Guest daphene]

I don't know about all of these analogys, but what I do know is that my wife will not even consider any compromise. She wants what she has had in the past only. No part of Daphene. I offered last night for us to go to the GT together so that she could maybe possibly understand what is going on in my head. She says no, I can go but she thinks all of this is non sense. She will not listen to any reason at all. If Daphene would go away, my wife would be ok. If Daphene stays, my wife wants us to live separately. Still married, because we do not believe in divorce. So what kind of marriage is that when the spouses live in different states? No good if you ask me. Daphene is out now and she is staying out. I mean out of the closet, NOT out of our lives. The next few months will show alot of what my future will be like. I am wondering what it would be like to be able to become Daphene with out any nagging from my wife. Don,t know, I think I will miss her terribly.

[Guest ricka]

Hello Daphene---I don't know that I have anything to add to what has been said. I will say I was married and my wife left me despite the fact that i did not want the marriage to end. I could not be who she wanted me to be. She walked out the door on my birthday. But you know what, she gave me the best birthday present ever----my freedom and for that i will always be grateful to her.

Ricka

[Guest 91curiouskitten]

I am not even gunna pretend to have the smallest inklign of what this feels like but that doesnt mean I cant wish you the best of luck in attainging happiness and hoping this works out Good luck!!! And pelase dont hate me for jumping on here x.x