Legally speaking.......

[Patti Anne]

I have a question for anybody who'd like to give their input:

 

Lets say that you're out driving, dressed, just for wanting to get out of the house. You're stopped by the police. You hand him or her your license and registration. Of course it says you're a male. Have you broken any laws? I realize it differs from area to area, state to state, I wonder what is the likelihood that they'll give you a hard time? Again, humans being humans, that will vary from cop to cop. Plus, what if they recognize your name? 

 

Has anyone had this experience? 

[Carolyn Marie]

I'm no lawyer, and I don't play one on T.V.  However, I haven't heard of anyone having a problem with a traffic violation while being dressed en femme.  You may get some annoying and possibly embarrassing questions about why you don't match your D.L. photo, but I think that most field officers are well aware of the existence of trans folk, even if they haven't met one before.  I wouldn't worry about it.

 

Carolyn Marie

[Jani]

I suppose it all depends upon where you are, if the police officer was understanding and no alcohol was involved!  I agree with Carolyn that most of the time it would be a non issue.

 

Jani 

[Susan R]

1 hour ago, Patti Anne said:

I wonder what is the likelihood that they'll give you a hard time? Again, humans being humans, that will vary from cop to cop. Plus, what if they recognize your name? 

It probably depends primarily where you live.  Here in the Seattle area, it’s not likely you would have much of an issue. I can’t give legal advice either but I think @Carolyn Marie is correct that it’s likely not a legal issue as your intent shows no ill will toward another person.

 

Your last question is a bit trickier.  If the officer recognizes your name from your big winnings last week at their church bingo or whether they recognize your name because your on your county’s Most Wanted list, your future may play out differently.

[Lexi C]

Well am I was stop once in Queens N.Y back in the day late 80's and the cop gave a real hard time. Made me get out the car, take of my wig, did a body search, kept asking why I was dress as a woman when it wasn't even Halloween. I was not drinking and I don't do drugs  but I was scared as -crap- that this guy was going to do something bad to me.  However, that was back in the 80's..I think Carolyn  is right. Time are diff. But I also think your right as well, Cops are Cops you never know

[Patti Anne]

That's true. You never know. But in this day and age you could sue for damages like Chase Culpepper when they made her take off her makeup before they'd  take her picture for her drivers license

[Patti Anne]

@ Alex C: P.S, Hey! Damages might cover the cost of SRS! maybe even breast augmentation!  

[Lexi C]

I don't about that..All is takes is for the cop NOT TO  have his  dash cam on or video vest on. Hell I being kick and punch in the ribs no less the 2yrs ago bye a cop, because he mistaking me for a suspect. So just be careful, be polite and respectful and hopefully everything will be fine

[Patti Anne]

Like I've always told my son, there are two things you say to a cop when you're stopped; "yes sir" and "no sir". Anything else can be misconstrued. 

 

I've always been deathly afraid of being stopped by a cop. That's NOT the way I want to come out. I have a story about when I was 17 in the late '70's and how one night I was dressed, (just in a skirt and top, no makeup). A cop saw me walking and did a U-ie and came after me. I sprinted through the back yards of some nearby houses. I ran through one backyard and low and behold, there was a pair of jeans hanging on the clothesline. And they just happened to be my size! I grabbed the jeans, lost my skirt and top and did a quick change in the bushes. After a block I noticed that the cop had his search light on and was looking for me. He spotted me about a block away. I ran into a nearby parking garage but the only place to hide was in a dumpster, so I jumped in and burrowed under the trash hid ever so quietly. He walked around the garage for a while and finally gave up and left. After a few minutes I high-tailed it to my car which was parked 2 blocks away and  started driving away when the cop pulled me over. The only thing I was wearing was a pair of jeans, but luckily it was a hot August night, so I told him that I just went out for a drive to cool off. He knew and I knew that he had me dead to rights, but he had no proof. THAT was close and if I'd been caught and my friends and family would have found out. I'm not sure I could have withstood the embarrassment and shame. I had dodged a bullet. The statute of limitations has run out I'm quite sure.

 

And 2 nights later I went back to the house where I stole the jeans and pinned a $20 bill on the clothesline where the jeans were hanging. Thats why cops make me nervous.

[VickySGV]

Actually the very last traffic ticket I got was a night I was out cross dressed and was coming home from a club, although all I had had to drink was soda pop without alcohol.  I was so nervous though that I did not see a "NO LEFT TURN" sign in downtown Pasadena CA. at street where the famous Rose Parade takes place.  I made an illegal left turn and got pulled over.  I steeled my nerves for some trouble, but while ready to take my wig off, the only thing really said was that the police officer noted that I should appear in court in my male outfit.  That was in 1997, twelve years before I actually began living full time, and I have been a more attentive driver since then and thus no traffic violations.

 

The New Years Eve in 2013/4, I was coming home from a party about 75 miles from my home and had gotten off at my usual freeway off ramp and was herded into a Sobriety Check Point along with the other drivers on the street.  I was wearing a purple wig that was actually pretty cute, and since I sober for a good many years by then had no worries really.  As I approached the officer at the stop point I already had my DL out in hand.  My DL did have my female name and gender on it, but he look at me and the license and asked when I had had my last drink of alcohol and I cheerfully told him my Sobriety date of 10/10/2008 which startled him a bit, but I told him with a grin that I was recovering Alcoholic.  He was still choking slightly and at last asked me if I still lived at the address on the license.  I told him I did, and he then said in an almost relieved voice to go on ahead home.  I waited until I was a block down and pulled over for a giggle fit.  My purple hair had done him in.

 

https://www.transgenderpulse.com/forums/gallery/image/11497-purple-afternoon/

[Carolyn Marie]

As a former reserve police officer, I vividly recall one incident at a sobriety checkpoint.  They arrested a TG woman for DUI, and left her handcuffed to a bench so that passing officers could smirk and make comments.  I was dying inside for her, but didn't say anything.  Reserves were lower than low on the totem pole.  I regret to this day not calling it out.  It was 30 years ago, but it could certainly happen again anywhere.

 

The moral of this story is this:  don't break the law, and especially don't break the law if you are trans. You won't like the outcome, I guarantee it.

 

Carolyn Marie

[VickySGV]

@Carolyn Marie some good came out of that incident since you have told us here about training that you have provided to Los Angeles PD officers and you and I have other friends that have made a positive impact on both city and county officers in respect to us Trans Folk.  Trans people are making inroads in educating police departments, but much still needs to be done.

[Maid In Bedlam]

Not a lot of people know this. But sometime in the seventies, I was an active police officer in Oregon.
I was out patrol (I mainly did the graveyard shift) and I noticed a female i couldn't identify out late at night. She was wearing a skirt and top. I thought it a bit odd and was concerned for her welfare I turned my cruiser round to see if I could help the lady in question. Didn't want her feeling afraid with all the crime on the street and being out alone so late at night. As soon as I turned around. She made a run for it and I lost sight of her. I looked everywhere but she was nowhere to be seen. I was a little concerned so I turned my searchlight on to find her. But alias she had gone. anyway, I searched around the dumpsters and back of the s to houses if the woman in question had found herself in a bad situation. I never found her. cut a long story short a few days later there was an odd story came in on the wire. This couple claimed that as if by magic there washing had turned into money. 20 bucks to be precise. We all had a chuckle and went on about our lives. But I always thought it would be nice if there was a magic washing fairy that leaves money for old clothes.

 

( BTW I made that up. I wasnt really but couldnt resist if you read a few posts up. Sorry Patti

 

Moral of the story is. If you out late at night alone then a woman will attact attention. If its as it it here in the UK then we are a little more progessive in the trans question. I dont think a constable in the UK would even bat an eyelid at your diffrent licence to presentation. In fact they would maybe offer you a lift home in some cases.

 

3 hours ago, Patti Anne said:

Like I've always told my son, there are two things you say to a cop when you're stopped; "yes sir" and "no sir". Anything else can be misconstrued.

 

This i agree with. Bad cop will try and make you incrimnate yourself by asking leading questions. Fortunatly there isnt many of them dinosaurs around anymore i hope.

[KathyLauren]

It happened to me while I was part-time.  I was coming home from a support group meeting and came to a police checkpoint.  They were looking for license, registration, insurance and vehicle inspection documents.  My license had my male name and a big "M" on it, and the picture was of a guy with a beard.  There was no problem at all.  The cop checked my license and tags.  Asked me if I had had anything to drink, then wished me a good evening, without a "sir" or a ma'am".

 

I was stopped a couple of times after that, after I had my name changed but before I had my gender officially changed.  I handed over my license with a picture of me in female mode and my female name, but with that big old "M" still there.  They either didn't notice the M or they didn't care.  It was a non-issue.

 

There may still be jurisdictions that have cross dressing on the books as an offence.  It is prudent to know the law where you live.  Prudent also to know what your local cops are like.  Here, it's the RCMP, and they have a reputation for politeness.

[Sally Stone]

So, the two biggest takeaways here are: be sober and be polite, and there shouldn't be any issues.  Surprisingly, I have never been stopped while presenting as Sally, although stating this out loud has probably doomed me. 

 

One of my best friends from my support group days was a police officer.  This was back in the early 90's and even way back then her department received transgender awareness training, and this was Atlanta, GA.  I suspect that most cops have had the opportunity to interact with a trans person.  Several years ago at the Keystone Conference, members of the local police department came and did a workshop.  Their main takeaway (and I'm paraphrasing here) was that cops aren't concerned about your gender presentation.

 

Hugs,

 

Sally

[Charlize]

I doubt that any laws still exist regarding dressing as "the opposite gender".  Unfortunately there still exists, in some, a nasty desire to shame and vilify people who are different.  Police are members of society so their attitudes often reflect those of the local where they work.  At least things are so much better today than when they were when i was young.  Even when i graduated from college wearing a dress could land me in jail.  Today its more a matter of shame or fear that keeps many of us "in line".

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize

 

PS.  That was your $20?   Thanks Patti Anne.....guess you didn't notice how it zipped up.

 

[Dinaki]

If you were in my country and that is Greece, and a man is driving a vehicle in women clothes and he is stooped by a police officer (lets say because he violated the red light), the armed man will write in the ticket "transvestite".

[Pallas]

On 3/21/2020 at 2:01 AM, Patti Anne said:

I have a question for anybody who'd like to give their input:

 

Lets say that you're out driving, dressed, just for wanting to get out of the house. You're stopped by the police. You hand him or her your license and registration. Of course it says you're a male. Have you broken any laws? I realize it differs from area to area, state to state, I wonder what is the likelihood that they'll give you a hard time? Again, humans being humans, that will vary from cop to cop. Plus, what if they recognize your name? 

 

Has anyone had this experience? 

 

Well, I have been pulled over twice by cops doing check-ups on scooters to make sure they don't go faster than what they're legally allowed to, the problem is those times I usually wear pretty concealing clothing. As a possible FtM who already barely gets looked at with boy-ish or unisex clothing, they're response was I suppose the same as if I had dressed more feminine.
As for the time someone caused crashed with their car into the car I was driving, the cops didn't really take note of my unisex clothing.
I can't say for sure how cops would respond here, but I suppose it varies from cop to cop, although in general they're not disrespectful in that way. 
Generally what I've experienced and seen happen to others in real life is that the cops won't critique or respond to how you would dress, but would on your actions (whether it is the right response remains to be seen though, again this varies from person to person and also regardless of gender).

[Patti Anne]

57 minutes ago, Pallas said:

I can't say for sure how cops would respond here, but I suppose it varies from cop to cop, although in general they're not disrespectful in that way. 

 

I found out that in most states these days, nobody seems to care. Just as a precaution, I asked my gender counselor for a letter saying that I am under his care and am not a crazy person, basically. I just keep the letter folded up in my purse, in case I needed it. Shawna and I just completed a cross country drive and no one seemed to notice us. At least they seemed not to pay attention. Even when we went into the ladies room at gas stations!  Thank God!

[VickySGV]

46 minutes ago, Patti Anne said:

At least they seemed not to pay attention. Even when we went into the ladies room at gas stations!  Thank God!

 

Doing great there girls!!

 

[SL]

I think it depends where you are and the cop you get. I got rear ended back in February while presenting male and the officer kept referring to me as "ma'am" and "Miss". I will say in his defense that my drivers license was from high school so it still had my birth name and everything on it (working on the name change now) and I'm still pre-T, but it would have been nice if he asked for my pronouns or something.

 

I've seen some bad things from NYPD over the last year or so. In 2018 or 2019 they evidently charged a trans woman with "false personation" (https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-woman-sues-nypd-officers-over-false-personation-arrest-n962236). Then this year they are being sued for dehumanizing treatment of a trans man which included sexual assault. He was pulled over for not having a license plate light (https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/clarissajanlim/black-trans-man-sued-nypd-treatment-in-custody). 

 

I think being trans has to be legal in all states, but evidently some jerks may still try to hit you with false personation or just be a disgusting person to you in general.

[Wichita]

On 8/6/2020 at 8:26 AM, SL said:

I think it depends where you are and the cop you get. I got rear ended back in February while presenting male and the officer kept referring to me as "ma'am" and "Miss". I will say in his defense that my drivers license was from high school so it still had my birth name and everything on it (working on the name change now) and I'm still pre-T, but it would have been nice if he asked for my pronouns or something.

 

I've seen some bad things from NYPD over the last year or so. In 2018 or 2019 they evidently charged a trans woman with "false personation" (https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-woman-sues-nypd-officers-over-false-personation-arrest-n962236). Then this year they are being sued for dehumanizing treatment of a trans man which included sexual assault. He was pulled over for not having a license plate light (https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/clarissajanlim/black-trans-man-sued-nypd-treatment-in-custody). 

 

I think being trans has to be legal in all states, but evidently some jerks may still try to hit you with false personation or just be a disgusting person to you in general.

I’m not sure either of those stories are the greatest examples of specifically “anti-trans” behavior.  The first story specifically states the individual was trespassing (which prompted the interaction with the police in the first place). What followed is an example of a-hole cops, surely. But the individual in question committed the original offense that sparked the interest to begin with. And a-hole cops know no target demographic. They’re a-holes to everyone.

 

The second story references gun possession. The fact that the second individual “didn’t know” about the need for a permit doesn’t absolve the person of breaking New York’s notoriously strict gun laws. I’ve never even been to New York and even I know you’re risking quite a bit by carrying a gun into that city.

 

And with how much the words “sexual assault” are thrown around like some catch-all accusation...it sounds to me more like the cops frisked the individual (who’d already told them about carrying a firearm with no permit). Cops will tell you people hide things in about any place big enough to hide them, so they have to be thorough, without regard to a suspect’s comfort levels. You tell them you have a gun with no permit... you’re going to get searched... a lot. 
 

Later in the story, the individual claims to be upset about being put in a cell with male prisoners. Where else would a transgender man be placed? With women? I’ve seen for years the fight to have prisoners housed according to how they identify. Now that we see it in action, they cry foul? That makes no sense. Had they placed the individual in that story with women, and there’d be cries of mosgendering and such. Sounds like a no-win for the cops at the least and a money grab at worst.

 

Not saying the cops in those stories weren’t being a-holes...I just don’t think those are the best examples of “anti-trans” police bias. Just...a-hole cops.

 

I’ve had more than 20 police interactions since I got home from the military in 2003. All but one were traffic stops while I appeared as my “birth gender.” 
 

I was never shot, tazed, beaten, or even arrested. 
 

In fact, the most combative traffic stop I ever had was with a black officer who accused me of running a red light and changing lanes without signaling. After he practically screamed his second question at me (despite giving me zero time to answer his first one), I simply responded “It’s cool, man. We’ll just talk about it in court.” After he screamed again, asking what I said (which I repeated verbatim), he yanked me out of my car and pulled my hands behind my back.

 

Being a frequent watcher of shows like Cops, I knew there was no winning an argument with this guy, so my responses became nothing more than “yes sir” or “no sir.”

 

I gave all three tickets to my lawyer at $75 a pop. On the day of my court appointment, my lawyer walked in, talked to the prosecutor and then called my name.

“You’re free to go.”

 

Pretty simple. 
 

The other interaction with cops was when they came to my apartment to investigate a possible hostage situation or kidnapping (I guess). I was exploring my trans nature with a bit more bravery, and someone in my complex had seen me and reported me to the management office. For some reason, it was reported a woman was being restrained and so the cops were called. By the time they arrived, I was back in “guy mode” and let them right in, explaining what the person likely saw and why I was the only one in my apartment, but the person had specifically seen a woman.

 

They thanked me for my honesty and, after confirming there was no lewd display (nudity I suppose) they wished me a good day and left. My heart rate could have powered a small city, but nothing untoward happened.

 

Respect and honesty goes a long way. And if it doesn’t...well that’s why we have lawsuits. But if you want your lawsuit to have the best outcome, should it be necessary, your conduct with the police must be above reproach so that any idiot who sees bodycam or dashcam footage can come to only one conclusion about your conduct — total compliance. If you give total compliance and still get victimized, the lawsuit is a slam dunk and congrats on your lottery win.