A Unfortunate Situation

[Guest Deleted account]

Hello everyone! This is my first post and would like to introduce myself before going into my personal situation. I have transitioned twice, once in 92 when I was 35 which unfortunately was unsuccessful for several reasons, and in 2000 at 43 which worked out great with the help of my new wife. I had my GRS in 2005 so I am now 15 years post op. 

 

Everything had been going very smooth until about 5 years ago when Catlin Jenner went public and educated the public in not the most effective way, followed by the transgender bathroom issues. I live in the San Francisco Bay area which is one of the best areas in the country transgender rights wise, but also everyone here is very tuned into their transgender radar, so it’s not always easy to move around society unnoticed. My wife was worried for my safety because I am taller than average, and although I think I look great after 20 years on hormones, I don’t always pass 100%. 

 

So in 2015 I started to tone myself down a bit to appear more androgynous. I wore my hair quite a bit shorter, and begin wearing less feminine clothing. I also quit using the public women’s restrooms just held it in till I got home or found a gender neutral bathroom. As time went on, I started getting more and more into presenting male even though I have had complete surgery, natural 38 C breasts, along with all my ID including birth certificate changed to female. 

 

Even though my wife was supportive at the beginning of our relationship, as the years went by she became more uncomfortable with the idea including admitting to me that she was never a lesbian or does she want anyone to think she is one. Needless to say, we had no more sex after my surgery and little affection especially in public, so when she had the opportunity to push me back towards a more male appearance, she jumped at the chance. I guess I was so busy and otherwise occupied with my business and life in general that I did not even notice what was actually happening to me. 
 

Now with the coronavirus looming everywhere and people loosing their lives, you naturally begin to reassess your life. It’s like I woke up one morning and said to myself ”what the hell have I done?” A wave of despair came over me and I felt as if all my pre-transition anxiety had returned. I felt like I needed to tell my wife that I was unhappy and need to dress more like a woman and less than a man. Well., she went into a rage and started to threaten separation and divorce if I started to dress feminine again. All I could do is cry and feel as if my marriage of 20 years was falling apart. It is almost as if I am attempting transition again for the first time and asking permission. 

 

Over this past weekend I drew a line in the sand and told her that I am no longer going to bind my breasts and wear guys clothes any longer. She responded by compromising and stating as long as my changes are subtle, and I don’t wear too feminine of dress, she will be willing to allow it. When I first transitioned, like many others, I was a real girly girl, but overtime found my balance somewhere in the middle. She told me no makeup, jewelry and my hair to not touch my shoulders. 

 

I am feeling very confused and scared now. I never in my dreams would have believed my life at 63 would play out this way. I am glad I found this forum. It has been many years since I had to reach out for support. 

[Jani]

Hello Laura and welcome.  I was saddened to read that you had been forced back into the closet after so many years out, especially having had surgery.  In retrospect its obvious (to me) that you went too far to quash a beast that had not appeared to harm you.  While I understand your preemptive decision, you can now see the impact.  If you have been hiding to the point of binding then its apparent you took this seriously.  I would suggest you look at things and determine how you feel about yourself.  You say you are now confused and scared, but do you love yourself?  Your initial reaction suggests otherwise to me, that you wanted/needed to hide who you were despite living in a fairly open and accepting city.  I also find it odd that your wife is dictating the terms of your life and presentation to such a strict level.  She knew about your transition history prior to marriage and seemed to encourage you(?) despite not wanting to appear as a lesbian.  Myself, I think there are worse things to be thought of, and my sexual direction never comes up when I am out with my wife.

 

I know at your age (just a bit younger than I) the thought of starting over is not on the radar.  You need to have a heart to heart with your wife.  Go back to the beginning as you have here.  While you are a couple, you are also individuals.  This is important to remember.  You transitioned for a reason and you hid yourself later for a reason.  That reason is no longer valid and you are uncomfortable with it.  Marriage is about compromise, not "my way alone" as you wife is directing.  Sorry for the blunt assessment but its my outsiders view.  

 

Please seek out help if you think it would be beneficial. 

 

Jani

[Guest Deleted account]

1 hour ago, Jani said:

Hello Laura and welcome.  I was saddened to read that you had been forced back into the closet after so many years out, especially having had surgery.  In retrospect its obvious (to me) that you went too far to quash a beast that had not appeared to harm you.  While I understand your preemptive decision, you can now see the impact.  If you have been hiding to the point of binding then its apparent you took this seriously.  I would suggest you look at things and determine how you feel about yourself.  You say you are now confused and scared, but do you love yourself?  Your initial reaction suggests otherwise to me, that you wanted/needed to hide who you were despite living in a fairly open and accepting city.  I also find it odd that your wife is dictating the terms of your life and presentation to such a strict level.  She knew about your transition history prior to marriage and seemed to encourage you(?) despite not wanting to appear as a lesbian.  Myself, I think there are worse things to be thought of, and my sexual direction never comes up when I am out with my wife.

 

I know at your age (just a bit younger than I) the thought of starting over is not on the radar.  You need to have a heart to heart with your wife.  Go back to the beginning as you have here.  While you are a couple, you are also individuals.  This is important to remember.  You transitioned for a reason and you hid yourself later for a reason.  That reason is no longer valid and you are uncomfortable with it.  Marriage is about compromise, not "my way alone" as you wife is directing.  Sorry for the blunt assessment but its my outsiders view.  

 

Please seek out help if you think it would be beneficial. 

 

Jani

I appreciate your candid response. I have had a heart to heart with my wife and I am not sure that she will accept my dressing more feminine. We may have to split up which is a real shame. 

[Jani]

I'm sorry to read that even though it was my first thought upon reading your post.  You are a woman, she knows it, but is having a hard time accepting it.  It will be a difficult road to travel but I hope you both come out all right.  

 

Jani

[Susan R]

Hello @Laura Marie. Welcome to our forums. It’s nice to have someone among us with a little experience under their proverbial belt. After reading your story, it had me somewhat concerned.  I shared it with my wife.  We just had a very deep discussion about whether something like this could ever happening to us.  I, like yourself in some ways, gave my wife most of the control regarding the speed at which we transition together.  We’ve discussed surgery many times and she is only concerned about my health and possible complications of that surgery not that she would lose interest in me as a woman.

 

I have a few questions but feel no obligation to answer.  What happened in the relationship to cause the slow movement back to androgyny? Was it a slow push from your wife due to society or something else completely?  Could it be that your wife does not want to emotionally commit to all the change that transitioning back would cause? This is the first time I heard of a long time post-op trans woman having to deal with this issue so late in their journey. I hope you two can find your way back. Good communication and her understanding of your situation is so key in this being possible. Maybe she would attend counseling with you. Hopefully, she will allow a discussion about this to continue in some way.
 

Warmest Regards,

Susan R?

[Guest Deleted account]

2 hours ago, Susan R said:

Hello @Laura Marie. Welcome to our forums. It’s nice to have someone among us with a little experience under their proverbial belt. After reading your story, it had me somewhat concerned.  I shared it with my wife.  We just had a very deep discussion about whether something like this could ever happening to us.  I, like yourself in some ways, gave my wife most of the control regarding the speed at which we transition together.  We’ve discussed surgery many times and she is only concerned about my health and possible complications of that surgery not that she would lose interest in me as a woman.

 

I have a few questions but feel no obligation to answer.  What happened in the relationship to cause the slow movement back to androgyny? Was it a slow push from your wife due to society or something else completely?  Could it be that your wife does not want to emotionally commit to all the change that transitioning back would cause? This is the first time I heard of a long time post-op trans woman having to deal with this issue so late in their journey. I hope you two can find your way back. Good communication and her understanding of your situation is so key in this being possible. Maybe she would attend counseling with you. Hopefully, she will allow a discussion about this to continue in some way.
 

Warmest Regards,

Susan R?

 

 

Hi Susan,

 

Well our relationship is a bit complicated, but to explain how things developed to this point, I really have to go back to when we first met. I was working in Hawaii for a dot com and she lived in California. This was back in 1999 and there really was no real social media like we have today or dating apps. I joined a dating website in order to met someone because all I ever did was work and I was lonely. When I saw her profile I saw something in her face that led me to believe that she would be a kind and understanding woman.

 

After transitioning in 92 and having that attempt fail miserably, I was feeling the need to try again. but also knew I did not want to do it alone. So after contacting her by email we decided a phone call would be our next step. That first call lasted 4 hours with both of us sharing our darkest secrets and of course my transition. She had not heard of transgendered people before, but was open minded and listened to all I had to say. She was compassionate and understanding just like I thought she would be. For the next 4 months we would spend 4 hours every night talking.

 

I flew out to met her and we got along great, she in-turn came to Hawaii to spend the holidays with me. It was on that trip that I asked her to marry me and we made plans for our wedding and honeymoon. It was also decided that I would transition on our honeymoon which I did. It was like a dream come true for me, and she seemed to be happy too. Keep in mind that I still had my guy parts still so sex was not restricted in any way.

 

I quit my job in Hawaii and moved to California figuring it would be easy for me to land another job in computers, but what I did not know was that the dot com bubble was about to burst which made finding a job in my field very difficult. So shortly after getting married I started hormones and also schooling to become a nurse. Everything moved along well and we remained happy.

 

In 2004 my father passed away and left me some money. We had talked about surgery before, but financially could not afford it, so this was my opportunity, and In 2005 I had my surgery and that is when things started to change. She did not feel comfortable having sex anymore and soon it all but stopped. We remained close, but we were more like girlfriends and roommates. She did not want to show any affection in public, and  I started to feel somewhat detached from her. 

 

Then about the time Catlin Jenner transitioned which caused a lot of attention to trans issues and not always positive, plus the transgender bathroom debate, I started toning down my appearance. I noticed the more androgynous I became, the more affectionate she became. I liked the feeling of closeness that was missing in our marriage, so I went along with it. Now 5 years later I find myself in this uncomfortable situation. I want to become more feminine in my appearance, but she does not want to loose this husband that she has found. 

 

I am hoping we can somehow come to a compromise because I am feeling very depressed and sad. I love her very much, but I also love myself. 

[Susan R]

@Laura Marie Thanks for the expanded explanation of you journey to date and how this got you to the need and decision to re-transition.

 

10 hours ago, Laura Marie said:

In 2005 I had my surgery and that is when things started to change. She did not feel comfortable having sex anymore and soon it all but stopped. We remained close, but we were more like girlfriends and roommates. She did not want to show any affection in public, and  I started to feel somewhat detached from her.

This is exactly what I was thought happened.  The surgery and recovery itself probably disrupted your normal pattern of intimacy. She may have become comfortable with you as just girlfriends...or at least the routine and pattern of living that provided her.

 

11 hours ago, Laura Marie said:

I started toning down my appearance. I noticed the more androgynous I became, the more affectionate she became. I liked the feeling of closeness that was missing in our marriage, so I went along with it.

Ok, this is what I wanted to know. What was the root cause for de-transition.  It was a conscious choice due to her positive reinforcement of it.  Oh, that it really too bad. It was a very subtle passive ultimatum of sorts. You wife may not have even known she was doing this to you.  She may have genuinely felt closer to the old more masculine you. I’m sorry that must have been very hard. The sacrifice of everything you worked for to become you just went away in just a short time.

 

11 hours ago, Laura Marie said:

she does not want to loose this husband that she has found. 

 

I am hoping we can somehow come to a compromise because I am feeling very depressed and sad. I love her very much, but I also love myself.

I hope this can happen...it’s going to be a lot of work and your wife will drag her heels during parts of the reintroduction of the female traits. You need to be who you are though. She needs to see this. If she loves you enough, you can prevail and get back to where you were.

 

Sidenote: Our relationships with our spouses started very similarly. I’ll give you my ‘cliff note’ version of how I met and proposed to mine.

 

I met her on a chat server on something called the IRC (internet relay chat) in Aug. 4, 1996. We talked every night from about 8pm to 11pm or midnight every night for 6 months and fell deeply in love. On Dec. 15 1996, I bought plane tickets to rendezvous with her in Sacramento to meet mutual online friends there. The next day, I purged everything in my home and storage that I had collected that was female over the previous 10 years. On Friday, Jan.17, 1997, I met her at the airport and spent a wonderful weekend with her.  It was the best time of my life (up to that point). There was a gazebo at our hotel’s courtyard where I surprised her and proposed on Jan. 19, 1997.  We then went to a jewelry store downtown and bought her current wedding ring.  And the rest is history. It sounds very similar to your relationship’s beginning. IMHO. So much so that I thought I’d share here.

 

My Best,

Susan R?

[Guest Deleted account]

Thank you so much Susan for your thoughts. I have a little update to share. Last night we had a heart to heart and came up with a compromise of sorts. She does understand my need to be who I am and the freedom to express myself as a woman, and I understand how she feels about being out in public with her and not feeling comfortable with showing affection. So we decided we will try to meet in the middle somewhere, meaning I can dress anyway I want at work, in public and even at home with the exception of when we are in public together, she wants me to dress less feminine. I think I can live with this compromise, and hope that in time she will start to feel more comfortable with me and allow me to dress the same all the time.

 

The fortunate thing about us is that we have always been able to communicate and we never stay mad at each other for more than a day. At our age, me at almost 64 and her at 68, neither one of us wants to start over again. I will keep you all updated as time go on, but I feel very positive that this will work out.