Biden Talked Trans Rights at Thursday's Town Hall

[Jackie C.]

1 hour ago, Jandi said:

What the hell are we doing?

 

Breaking up families and torturing minorities so that the... supporters... of this regime have someone to hate and the regime can say that they're "fixing the problem." It's right out of the authoritarian playbook except replace "South and Central Americans" with "Jews and Homosexuals."

 

To most of us (Americans), heartbreaking as it is, it's become background noise because of all the other things the regime has been doing to destroy this country and erode democracy. They're trying to wear us down with a stream of monstrous atrocities. Also right out of the authoritarian playbook.

 

This needs to end. The people responsible for this need to face consequences. All of them. "I was just following orders" is no excuse.

 

Vote.

 

Hugs!

Edited October 25, 2020 by Jackie C.
Clarity and a misused word.

[Mia Marie]

Do you realize that it was Odama and Biden who started seperating the children of illegal immigrants and not Trump? Obama built the cages that holds many children who by the way are not citizens of this country and need to be feturned to their place of origin with their parents until such time as they receive proper papers to come in this country.

[Jackie C.]

Yup. Those cages got built under a president who belonged to the democratic party. Doesn't mean using them is right. Continuing to be terrible isn't any better that being the first person to be terrible. I don't agree with a lot of what Obama did but, by his own admission, he's a conservative. Tearing children away from their parents is an atrocity. That fact that they entered the country illegally does not make it OK. They're still people. Those kids are scarred for life.

 

How can you not listen to the ICE officers and not be appalled?

 

"We've got a choir here."

 

"We just need a conductor."

 

Inexcusable. A soldier has the duty to refuse unlawful orders. These people are getting off on it.

 

Pretty much a metaphor for this whole stupid presidency. "Obama did something terrible? Well watch this! We'll make it even WORSE."

 

Hugs!

[Mia Marie]

ICE was also developed during Obama

[Jackie C.]

1 hour ago, Mia Marie said:

ICE was also developed during Obama

 

That was actually Bush. Homeland security act of 2002.

 

Hugs!

[Carolyn Marie]

5 hours ago, Mia Marie said:

Personally I don't need or want anyone making decisions for me in any way or form. You won't have the right to choose the field of work you want. You wouldn't be able to go into business without government permission and they would never let a new business open that endangers the finances of a large business already making millions. This would no longer be a free country where you would be able to walk down the street without fear. .

 

You know, most people would consider Sweden and Denmark to be socialist-governed countries.  I have seen lots of info about both countries, and none of those things have happened there.  The citizens of both countries are among the happiest and most satisfied people in the world.

 

What you are describing are communist and/or totalitarian countries, Mia Marie.  There is no one in the Democratic Party, not even AOC, who wants that kind of country.  Your fears are based on the hysterics of Fox & Friends, OAN and QAnon.  I am sorry you are so fearful of "the Other."  It is no way to live.

 

Carolyn Marie

[MirandaB]

5 hours ago, Mia Marie said:

ICE was also developed during Obama

So we're keeping everything Obama started? Good news for Obamacare, let your party know it's time to stop trying to repeal it or get an activist court to throw it out. 

[JillPilled]

The problem with many in the states who consider or interject commentary on ideologies ranging from communism, to socialism, and capitalism is they often times will confuse each for having one solitary 'monolith' for a model across the world (particularly, those which by definition have sought to critique capitalism--Marx and Engel's theories on economics were at the front and center to this Western self-critique, which later would carry some transition into socialist-democratic principles or guarantees to individual citizens that are held today in many Western-European nations). I don't say this to condescend, just to note that it's something which is a misunderstanding here that many of us take too--for some time while I had no experience learning about distinguishing parts to socialism, communism, capitalism--it took some time to fully process and recognize the wide range of differences between interpretations of each ideology. Though the directions each nation took in interpreting it and having their own cultural/historical resistance lead to FAR more diverse and ranging in successful or drastically failed measures. Nations which are competitive powers, all of them, are not in the interest to host massive conspiratorial efforts to assimilate with one another and supplant democracy.

 

I'd suggest for seeing and learning history from a case of either, Russian/Chinese history in the sense that both developed issues relating to an 'entrenchment' theory during the course of their revolutions--where becoming steeped in bureaucratic corruption, and authoritarianism of cults of personality resulted in a direct 'muddling' of the ambitions of the revolution to create equitable conditions for citizens and clearing rejecting freedoms Marx and Engels touted to all individuals (Maoism/Stalinism, just for once instance). Both quite distinctive  historical-events contorted the objectives of revolution with active mobocracy at play all the while. Though they, too, are not completely able to be considered one in the same brand of communism. There is no grand overarching conspiratorial effort by the two powers--in fact they are very much in conflict with one another, due to separating differences of view on communist ideology/cultures. The same sense of corruption, and mobocracy (white-supremacist groups for instance, are one sort which has time and time again tried to manipulate events on the national scale through faction groups, militias), has occurred in the U.S historically, yet under a facet of Neo-liberal capitalism/democracy--and assuredly the modern result of capitalism exploiting the underclasses is something we can see in the states today in a not totally dissimilar fashion to communist nations like Russia/China, North Korea with modern corporations seeing sizable change compared to local interests/lower-class citizens who work for them often, in a 'race to the bottom'.

 

That there is a persisting myth that the U.S somehow hosts 'exceptionalism' straying away from the same types of exploitation seen of communist nations, is gross and negligent of historical precedence or recognition that end of the day borders and cultural differences do not distinguish human beings and our motives (see: race and economic class discrimination, the topic of gender and sexuality in the U.S, to yes, ideology on the basis of socialist-democrats). If anyone thinks the U.S is beyond reproach of these same commonalities we hold with communist nations abroad because we're "superior" or something equally blatantly wrong, you're sorely mistaken.This is something you do not see, a link between socialist-democratic principles in Western Europe to experience of a vision of socialism Marx and Engels would have seen as 'contorted' and not helping lower class people (which, I believe was an objective aim to redress the imbalances of capitalism by them, lost sight of today)--in some places such as modern-day I'd suggest to carefully research what form of socialism someone is discussing, as it's not a loose definition of socialism you can use on a whim to continue to stoke persisting fear-mongering in U.S politics (and, in historiography for almost a century).

 

An easy notable socialist-democratic development in the U.S was the New Deal program of the Roosevelt Administration during the Great Depression, for instance is an interpretation of socialism in the form of aiding in welfare and social-securities for Americans during a period where such guarantees were not nationalized or federally protected for individuals in substantive need. It is indeed notable that much of Europe runs along a socialist-democracy type model-which retains certain parts of modern capitalism, but still invests in individual lives through socialized medicine and healthcare, farming, welfare, etc. They have vastly different entanglements than those of communist nations in there representation, and aid to citizens--arguably, the inverse is true where in communist nations (compared to socialist) there's a repression of active voice of the citizenry if they are critical or in wont of more from national-government figures/less seen aid to certain individuals if they're 'undesired' or other-d.

[JillPilled]

That always bugs me as a semi-historian! Sorry for the rant, anyway, just in short--I hardly agree with or remotely like Joe Biden's positions regarding many issues, and the democratic party--but I would rather have him than Trump who can't redress any historical injustice or seek to better anything including that of his own character. And it's quite, bizarre how he's been labelled a socialist when Bernie Sanders was on the vice-presidential nomination ballot and lost to Biden--who was far less radical, and who has been on record rejecting fully reazlied socialized-medicine/economic policies besides a moderate adjustment to taxes on the ultra-rich/corporations. At the bare minimum, I think he would recognize the need for officials to have fitness for office and seek to change or advance productive working policies on the basis of racial-justice, education, the COVID-19 crisis and public health/mental health, rather than 'roll-back' previous administrations policies (Trumpian with Obama administration policy).

 

Only changing/doing so in those which have actually hurt individuals/the nation thus as a whole ideally (not saying this would be definite if he was elected--but it'd be a far-cry fortunately from Trump). Climate change, LGBTQIA+ rights for me come to mind as well, but socioeconomic status (as a college student and transwoman), and healthcare access are all huge for me and all us I'd expect too--and I couldn't see Trump offering any of those incentives or appealing to righting wrongs of history compared to Biden. In-fact, heck, he [Trump] created a substantial amount of historical injustice and bigotry from merely one term including separating families. And hurting my home, Puerto Rico during its time of need. Imagine two, I don't want to, make sure to vote!

[Mia Marie]

I have a different question to ask but still on the same subject point. Would any of you vote for a political party if you found out they would like to reduce the world population to 50 million total? Now I ask this because there are those, not republicans, who do want to find a way to reduce the population and this pandemic may have been the first attempt to do so. Now you may ask who said the population needs to be reduced to 50 million and the answer is Bill Gate who by the way is a large supporter of the democrats and has been a lifelong democrat supporter who also has interest in the facility that produced this strain of covid in China. I can't say Biden follows this idea. He may not. Harris on the other hand may with all the problems she actually caused in Cali.

[Mia Marie]

I actually do have a word or two about Obamacare. Be it that all you young people on here haven't read up on that healthcare plan in its original form you need to read it and I do mean every word. It is a plan you pay twice for. Once a month and it is added in with you taxes in a way that you are paying more in taxes and getting less back. You have to spend $3000 - $5000 before it kicks in, and that I think is individual and not whole household, depending on how you set it up, and there isn't any amount less to spend first. As for clinics, most won't even accept it. I got that part from someone I worked with. I know people love to cut cost on everything. Don't cut the cost on healthcare. It's not worth it.

[Jackie C.]

4 hours ago, Mia Marie said:

Would any of you vote for a political party if you found out they would like to reduce the world population to 50 million total?

 

There is literally no way to do this. US political parties do not have the ability to reduce the world population without destroying said world and that doesn't benefit anybody. Though if we don't address climate change and find better and more land efficient methods of farming, it's not going to matter.

In the abstract, would the world be better off with less of a load from humans? Definitely. Would it be nice if people would voluntarily limit themselves to one child until things stabilize? Absolutely. Is it happening? Absolutely not. So we need to focus on technological solutions: food production and probably arcologies (because the multitudes are going to need somewhere to live) for the long haul. Our current technologies aren't going to cut it and our natural resources aren't going to hold out forever.

 

4 hours ago, Mia Marie said:

Be it that all you young people on here haven't read up on that healthcare plan in its original form you need to read it and I do mean every word.

 

Ok, so at the end of the day, my wife and I are on the ACA. Our employers don't offer insurance. It costs us $800 a month or so. Our plan would cost $1200 a month without the assist from the government. That's STILL better than if we had to buy our insurance from the company directly. Privatized insurance sucks (I know, I used to work there) and people should never, ever profit from human suffering.

 

Hugs!

[Ivy]

9 hours ago, Mia Marie said:

I actually do have a word or two about Obamacare. Be it that all you young people on here haven't read up on that healthcare plan in its original form…

I have never been big on Obamacare.  I didn't like the way it was pushed through, and I personally feel it was a windfall for the insurance industry.  Having said that, we do certainly have a screwed-up health system in this country.  (if you're unemployed you're pretty much SOL)  I suspect this is largely due to the for-profit nature of most of it.

From what I have seen, people in Sweden are fairly satisfied with their system.  (not that there aren't complaints)  

It seems to be logical that higher taxes paid for some sort of national system could be offset by not having to pay the premiums to a middleman directly.  But then, politicians seem to be capable of screwing up just about anything.

And then, anything on the scale necessary would be an immense undertaking and could not be done overnight.

 

Disclaimer here: Being in the VA system I don't have a lot of skin in the game….  Although the taxes would still be involved.  But then, I suppose they already are.

[Mia Marie]

Jackie, modern day pandemics are not natural. They are planned and implimented by one or more people. And yes that is a form of mass murder and I will agree the government we have today would not consort to such extreme measures. But what about the future form of our government? You can't say what they will be willing to do because you can't see into that future. Now after Bill Gates said the population should only be 50 million and that a reduction is imperitive who to say this pandemic, which was developed in a lab in China where he has financial interest in, wasn't an actual attempt to lower the population? Think about it. He talked about the need for population reduction and then thousands died.     

[Cyndee]

 

Frank Zappa for president, oh wait he's gone now, oh well ?It's all Cosmik Debris 

[Ivy]

Dang, I been zapped.

 

But just for fun…

 

[…As he continued his rounds, behind the plant, he found something else.  There was a pile of empty canisters dumped in an area behind the building.  They were labeled, "V-48.7 (Airborne)" with the same date.  Finster realized that this date was shortly before they had all begun to get sick.…

 

…He had an uneasy feeling, but his curiosity had been aroused, and he headed up to the office once more.  Porter was not back yet.  But Finster found the office door had not been pulled completely closed, and swung open at his touch.…

 

…Finster was no hacker, but he did have a basic knowledge of the system.  He began to search…

 

…He read with growing disbelief the details of a plan to release a genetically engineered virus, V-48, into the environment.  The plan had been carried out on that specific date, simultaneously, throughout the world.  V-48.3 had been introduced into the water, and V-48.7 released into the atmosphere at numerous locations.…

 

 

…Porter got to his feet and went on.  "It's like chemotherapy."  He sounded like he was trying to convince himself now.  It had all made more sense before he was trying to explain it to someone like Finster, who hadn't been part of it.

 

But then he got focused again.

 

"We did it to save the Earth."

 

"Did what?"

 

"They were a cancer, it was chemotherapy."

 

Slowly, at last, Finster began to understand what Porter meant.  It seemed insane.

 

"You... killed... thousands of people?"

 

"Thousands?...  No that wouldn't have helped.  It was billions."

 

Porter was determined to make Finster understand now.

 

"The Guardians will keep it all in balance now.  It is a new era - a new world.  This time we will keep it right."

 

Finster thought of his roommate.  He thought of the dead wino, and the city full of corpses.  But Porter was paying him no attention and went on.

 

"But you're still here.  We'll need to take you to them.  They'll want to see you... make tests.  There is a place for you here..."

 

Suddenly his eyes focused on the gun in Finster's hand.  The last thing Porter heard was Finster's angry voice, as he emptied the pistol into him.

 

"You stinkin' son of a _____!" ]

 

I like to write, really just cause I like to.

This is is an exert from "Finster" one I did a few years ago.

Of course there is a bit more to it, but…

Edited October 26, 2020 by Carolyn Marie
epithet violates forum rules.

[SaraAW]

I live in Canada, so I don't have as much skin in the game as those of you in the USA, but the outcome of this election will have ramifications for Canada and the rest of the world.

 

Spreading disinformation and science denial hurts everyone. If anyone makes exceptional accusations and claims that fly in the face of science, I expect them to come forward with evidence to back up those claims.  I hope it contains a whole bunch of citations to peer-reviewed papers from reputable journals or multiple credible sources.

 

For a conspiracy of a magnitude that would affect the entire world, it would require the complicitness of so many people keeping huge secrets on a scale that is unfathomable. Liars, cheats and crooks slip up and get found out. Look at history, no big secret managed to stay a secret for long. How many times times did your significant other catch you in a lie, even a small little white lie with minimal consequences. Now imagine that on a global scale. 

 

We have socialised health care here in Canada, it is not perfect, but I do not have to worry about making a decision to sell my house and live with a fatal but treatable condition or will my house to family members and die. We have social welfare programs. They are not perfect, there is abuse, there is still a lot of poverty; but, I would not wish to do away the system. It should be refined until everyone can live their life with the basic needs met. I pay taxes, lots of them, but I get a lot of services in return. As someone else said above, I would not fight to stop paying taxes, but instead fight to make sure they are spent wisely and for the good of all.

 

Please my brothers, sisters and non-binary folks in the USA, do your homework and vote. Vote at all levels of government, as they are all important. Each level is responsible for different things and so are critical to impact policy change at places they are made.

 

Hoping for a better future for all of us. Hugs!

[Carolyn Marie]

2 hours ago, Mia Marie said:

Now after Bill Gates said the population should only be 50 million and that a reduction is imperitive who to say this pandemic, which was developed in a lab in China where he has financial interest in, wasn't an actual attempt to lower the population? Think about it. He talked about the need for population reduction and then thousands died.     

 

Bill Gates never said that the population should only be 50 million people, which is less than one percent of the current world population.   Not even a giant meteor could do that.  The theory that he said it or anything like it is debunked Here.

 

The theory that the coronavirus was developed in a Chinese laboratory and sent into the world is also very likely false, and is discussed Here, Here, and Here.

 

Mia Marie, we aren't going to censor you.  But we are not going to allow you to advance disinformation and conspiracy theories without also printing the truth, with sources to back it up.  We owe it to our members to promote facts, not unsourced misinformation.

 

Carolyn Marie

[SaraAW]

@Carolyn Marie Thank you!

[Heather Shay]

I personally believe health care should be run like social security - I started paying in to that when I was 16 and paid all the way to 66. Was I able to take advantage of it when I was young? No. Did I complain when I was young? no. It made sense to me then and now to provide a safety net that we all share and all can use when the time came. So do I think the mandate to younger healthier people - who most likely have some sort of pre-condition? Yes.

 

Do I think badly of the senators who gutted Obamacare and gave the health care giants free rein to make as much as possible - that was not the originally the way the plan was designed - and was very similar to the plan Mitt Romney had in Massachusetts that worked? Yes.

 

Bottom line - it isn't perfect BUT it is better than NO PLAN and dumping people from care they need is not what I call Christian or American.

 

Off my soap box now. 

[MirandaB]

Have been a member on other boards where you weren't allowed to post things like saying a certain politician said this or famous person said that without a link to a reputable source.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JillPilled]

Certainly, the idea of gutting , under GOP efforts right now, the ACA as a system which covers approximately 100 million Americans (who all exist with preexisting conditions) with no plan in place either is just unethical to its core--you're right! It being imperfect is no reason to dismantle it, why not just fine tune it to what the constituents want? Personally I'm all in favor of sociallized-medicine if its implementation is close to the immense functionality of social-security too--it's a system which is one of the few most effective in the U.S alongside the postal service (which has just recently come under fire due to the postmaster Dejoy's creation of policies suiting the whims of the GOP/Trump). That needs better state and federal funding as well, speaking of.

 

@SaraAW Yes all of what you said--right on sister! The Canadian model's coverage is something you would think policymakers in the U.S would take more into consideration in how it works still effectively despite still hosting some flaws--we could use some forward thinking like that here rather than politicizing systems of care around a stigma to socialized-medicine (because socialism is labelled against American values for some reason?) Ultimately it stalls helping people who need the help most. Maybe it's because of the hinged weight corporations have here that has way too much monopolized influence keeping us behind compared to y'all maybe :c. Even then though, there ARE models like the UK's NHS is well known for being a subject of little if any contention there among political parties as well, because it's a great solution too and it still retains competitive-incentives to various medical institutions/hospitals sponsored at the state-level.

 

But yeah end of the day, lot of this boils down to like many have been saying here that no one should live in fear for lacking medical care in any capacity--in fact it should be a right afforded to all, not 'barring' individuals who don't meet a standard of being employed, making a certain income, at the whims of pharmaceutical-prices, having to be cis to know your receiving of care is safe and ethical (why are there not more protections for trans, nonbinary people specifically regarding this)? State-provision of such at the cost of higher-taxes, you would think would create more guarantees and safety for people if implemented effectively. I'd hope it'd help health-coverage be available to us all regardless of race, or sexuality too which many have struggled with. Maybe I sound too radical/preachy (definitely that) but we're also in the middle of a global pandemic where so many of us could be uninsured and not safe in that respect. Because the U.S has lagged behind the rest of the world in this capacity, for its citizens, for years. We'll get through this siblings, science and information, empathy have to win out! ❤️

 

-Jill

 

[Mia Marie]

Trump has a plan and I think he plans to bring it out only if re-elected. The only reason for not is so it can't be the first executive order from Biden and Harris to get rid of. As for coronavirus I know more. I did a little research and found that, YES, it did start in China. It was originally in Chinese bats that hung around the Chinese market and fed off the live animals giving covid to the livestock being butchered and sold to the people for food and the way they prepare food it is less likely cooked to the right temp for consumption. Scientist in China made a few alterations knew it could be used as a biological weapon but never used it. One of the labs is owned and paid for by Bill Gates and YES he did comment that the planet was only able to support no more than 50 million people. I do agree that the math seems a bit off but he did comment it.

[MirandaB]

Again, feel free to show us Gates saying that, instead of just insisting it's true because YOU believe it. 

 

I've tried to find it with this internet thing that we both seem to be able to use and haven't found it.  Just like I haven't found whatever you pretend Kamala Harris said, or any support for the idea that the federal government taxes your property.  

 

The parties in US are different enough one should be able to use reality-based reasons to pick one to vote for. 

 

[MaryEllen]

Any statements of who said what to whom need to be backed up with actual facts. Not rumor or innuendo. Keep your responses civil. Failure to do so will result in discipline.  Please read and heed community rule # 6 posted below.

 

 

 

6   The following behavior is strictly forbidden everywhere on the site: flame wars, trolling, deliberately provoking arguments, intentionally insulting others or yourself. . . you get the idea.